Your opinions/feelings - who/what is MOST to blame for our predicament?

Depositors only please!
The UK Government
70% (302 votes)
The Icelandic Government
6% (24 votes)
The IoM Government
11% (46 votes)
KSF IOM
6% (27 votes)
Kaupthing hf
4% (19 votes)
The general economic climate
2% (8 votes)
None of the above
1% (3 votes)
Total votes: 429
grapow: This is an OLD poll

grapow: This is an OLD poll (from January) - now closed. If you can see the results, you must have voted in it.

A NEW poll on same subject has just been started - here: http://chat.ksfiomdepositors.org/poll/your-opinionsfeelings-whowhat-most...

It's confusing that they both have the same title (ng??). Suggest people stop commenting on this one and use the new one to avoid confusion.

Posted by anrigaut on Sat, 11/07/2009 - 07:31
deleted .... comments under

deleted .... comments under new poll

Posted by Lucky Jim on Sat, 11/07/2009 - 09:32
Look down the left hand side

Look down the left hand side and you will see the polls listed.

Posted by conned on Sat, 11/07/2009 - 06:53
My vote (if I could make one?

My vote (if I could make one? - what has happened to prevent me responding to votes of this nature, I can see the results but not contribute), would go to HMG - a typical, "Ready, Fire, Aim" strategy, if ever I saw one!

Posted by grapow on Sat, 11/07/2009 - 06:16
Not so, The one thing in life

Not so, The one thing in life that should be guaranteed is one's right to receive one's money back. interest may be a matter for compromise, however the principal should not be. If a domain cannot ensure the competency of the banks that operate within it's control, then they should not be capable of allowing banking activities to take place.

Posted by Captain Mainwaring on Wed, 28/01/2009 - 14:04
Agree with steenjp HMG - for

Agree with steenjp

HMG - for it's narrow minded approach

IoMG - not only for not resolving, but for the weak regulation that led to the demise..

I think I've come up with yet another failure (lack of forethought) on behalf of FSC / IoMG

"However this does bring to light another failure of the IoM system / regulations, the EU savings directive is on a government level - the FSC / IoMG accepted a purely commercial guarantee with the parent Kauphing hf and did not back this up with an underlying guarantee from Iceland's government similar to that of the EU.

See :-
http://chat.ksfiomdepositors.org/poll/dag-calls-iom-government-negotiate...

Post heading Parental guarantee commercial

Posted by skintagainnow on Wed, 28/01/2009 - 13:33
The question is who is to

The question is who is to BLAME ?

KSFIOM was solvent on 7 October 2008. Darling's three words: 'Iceland is bankrupt' made it apparently insolvent on 8 October. So HMG is to blame.

The next question is: 'who should sort it out?' The answer to that is: 'the IOM'

The IOM Government knows who 'robbed' KSFIOM. It knows where the 'swag' is; it's locked up in KaupthingUK & HMG has the key!

The IOM Government should be shouting loudly: 'GIVE IT BACK!'

Hey! the trouble is they are not shouting as loudly as the DAG

If there were a bomb planted under the Palace of Westminster timed to go off in 10 minutes unless KSFIOM's assets were restored forthwith you can bet your last penny that HMG would have that money restored within 5 minutes after 2 phone calls, one to the Judge & the other to the Treasury.

Agreed ?

Posted by Lucky Jim on Wed, 28/01/2009 - 12:06
Who is to blame for this

Who is to blame for this mess? HMG.
Who is to blame for not sorting out this mess? IOMG

Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 28/01/2009 - 02:54
Who is to blame? The pointing

Who is to blame?
The pointing finger seems to be moving away from the UK towards the IoM.
In reality it should never have been pointed towards the UK; it is the IoM Government which has been attempting to evade its responsibilities by shouting (very quietly) at the UK.
Why do I say it’s not the UK?
Just suppose that you had money deposited in a bank and the bank was then robbed. (You may think this is what happened) You would turn to the bank for compensation and not to the robber. Your only dealing, your contract was with the bank. It is for the bank and not you to turn to the robber for compensation.

Now the bank in this case has gone; who was responsible for ensuring that the bank was not just a bunch of robbers? It was the regulator. That was their role in life to ensure that banks acted ethically and responsibly. It failed miserably in this case. It is they who are the villains in this.

All other countries, apart from Guernsey, have recognised and accepted their responsibilities. Consider, the UK, Finland, Germany, the Netherlands etc. etc, they have all accepted that it was their failure (to regulate properly) and have 100% compensated the savers. We have seen that the UK steps up to the task and bails out the banks with borrowings to the tune of something like two thirds of the GDP.
The IoM has more than enough savings of its own to sort this mess out, no borrowing is needed.
Failure by the IoM to act responsibly and fully compensate will inevitably lead to the demise of the IoM as it is known today. Other countries face up to the harsh reality of what doing nothing entails, sadly the IoM is facing the black abyss with their dithering.

Two quotes which put all this in perspective:
AES International managing director Sam Instone says (see http://blog.aesfinance.com/): “If the Isle of Man is masquerading as a reputable jurisdiction with good standards and investor protection and stability then they need to deliver more on that.”
and
“It seems to me that one of the best-kept financial secrets of our time is that in order to bypass the systems and controls of a coherent industry regulator you need not go far - just to the islands off our coast.”

Posted by IoM-neveragain on Wed, 28/01/2009 - 00:26
I'm sorry, but HMG hasn't

I'm sorry, but HMG hasn't nationalised any of the banks assets. The bank has been placed into receivership and all the assets are still there in theory. It should just take time to liquidate them.

HMG stopped one bank from transferring their assets overseas, but that was not KSF.

How anyone can blame anyone but the thieving Icelandic banking system is beyond me.

Posted by dawes on Tue, 27/01/2009 - 19:25
The Government has frozen our

The Government has frozen our money!!!!
The UK Government has frozen our money. They always claim it was a measure to save it for the depositors. It is all a lie! Once a government grabbed money, one needs crowbars to break it out of their fingers.
howag

Posted by howagcr on Tue, 27/01/2009 - 11:20
what warning, we were told in

what warning, we were told in a bond we were protected., we now know that is not the case like many . I never heard of banking offshore came with a warning.....

Posted by hippychickrobbed on Sat, 24/01/2009 - 16:09
As it happens I blame myself

As it happens I blame myself too,

should have blown that and whatever else I could obtain "on the chucky" on wine, women & song - and if I was still breathing at the end of it - then signed on at the "nat king cole".....

Posted by skintagainnow on Sat, 24/01/2009 - 15:43
I blame myself very much for

I blame myself very much for not looking more closely at what was involved when Derbyshire was taken over .

I think that the Derbyshire take- over should have been notified to the savers in advance but I suppose I am being ingenuous as this never happens when these sort of transactions take place .

When you put your money off- shore ,then it's at your own risk, as you are always warned .

Therefore back in November 2007 , we were presented with a fait accompli.

Posted by Anonymous on Sat, 24/01/2009 - 15:34
Dear flight theft, You are

Dear flight theft,

You are not alone. My health is also in decline due to the stress to which we have been subjected following the theft of our savings. I have good days and an equal number of fragile, teary, angry bad days. Golden years? Should have spent it all in Dubai and Abu Dhabi. I think that Dad and Mum never suspected that a UK government could join the ranks of rogue states and banana republics that periodically "nationalise' the asstes of targeted groups to replenish their own depleted funds. When someone sneaks into my home and takes my money and valuables away, it is called theft. When a government does the same thing, they may pass laws protecting themselvers through silence and immunity, but is is theft none the less. In another life, I was a serving police officer and on many occasions observed the psychological and spiritual affects of crime on victims. Your feelings of sadness and loss, your health decline, like mine, are typical of victims of serious crime. It seems all the worse when the culprit is the very government that is supposed to protect us. Before October 9, Mr Brown's public utterances championing of the rule of law were merely lackluster, pedantic, and patently insincere politicobabble. Now, it is revolting to see him pontificate about human rights. What a dishonest hypocrite. No, flignt theft, you are not alone. I understand and sympathise. God bless and keep you.

Posted by drglowry on Sat, 24/01/2009 - 14:40
This Government has to be

This Government has to be hanged for what they've done to us. Today, my health is going down - I'm having a tearful bad day for the 1st time in ages, with all of this - I cannot take feeling like I'm living under a very unscrupulous regime rather than a fair Government. I'm in London anyone want to discrace with a strong protest aoutside No 10 and 11.
Our money may as well have gone to Iceland for the protection the freezing order has given us. Also no good progress for the Lanesbanki Guernsey savers they are still fighting to get the rest of thier money back - they still only have 30%.

Posted by fight theft on Sat, 24/01/2009 - 13:56
Follow the money whenever a

Follow the money whenever a theft is committed. Where is the money? I suspect that the UK Government induced individuals inside KSFIOM to transfer our money to the UK, where it could easily be kept. Thus far, the UK Government, like any other rogue state, have taken a "come and get it" position with us, showing no intention to return the funds to their rightrful owners - we hapless depositors. Whatever could legitimately have prompted KSFIOM officers / IOM Government officials to send the bulk of our funds to the UK? What danger could the funds have been in had they just simply remained in the Isle of Man, where all of us deposited them? Who gained on IOM? Anyone get a gong in the New Year's Hounours list? Has anyone who was in a position to authorise and facilitate the fund transfer to UK suddenly prosperous? Who actually authorised the transfer? Have they acted within the law? Have they acted in the interests of KSFIOM and depositors? Have they taken sufficient care to protect our assets? (Obviously not.) Can the individuals who did the deed be identified? Can they be prosecuted, as they should? They have ruined the lives of many of us by helping those who have taken our money for themselves, so why should those responsible not also have their lives ruined? Someone signed the papers. Someone conspired for some time, well in advance of October 9, to give our money away. Who did it? Can they be prosecuted? Right up until October 9, Kaupting Bank staff were telling us everything was fine when it obviously was anything but. Where were the Financial Supervison Commission whilst all of this was going on?

Can any of our DAG membership close to the scene in IOM see any value in obtaining answers to these and similar questions? After all, if armed robbers had taken our funds from Samuel Harris House at gunpoint, the coppers would have been on them like banshees. As the crime was perpetrated through surreptitious and quasi-legal means, using a pen / computer rather than a gun,, no one has been held responsible. Do IOM have a public prosecutor's office? Why are they also deafeningly silent on these matters? Even n the US, where the current world financial crisis was manufactured, no less a figure than Madhof has been named, shamed, indicted, and is confined to his home courtesy of an electronic bracelet. If they are not already involved, it is high time for the IOM public prosecutor to initiate and conduct a criminal investigation to identify and determine who the culprits are, to see that they are named, shamed, indicted, convicted, and imprisioned for their part in this monumental theft.

Anyone orchestrating a similar theft here in Australia would have every cell of their body searched for evidence and the fruits of the crime, even if hiddin within one's DNA. Why are the authorities so deafeningly quiet in IOM? Are they fearful or reluctant to act for some reason?

IOM can continue to bumble about like the nearsighted Mr Magoo and enjoy the consequence of their inactiion as they watch the decomposition of what will be a moribund financial services industry. Thousands of us depositors will see to that if we are ultimately screwed. We will have lots of time on our hands as many of us are retired and too old to obtain gainful employment, with lots of time to contact the various expat groups of which we were members, and no money for other normal diversions such as travel, entertainment, or birthday celebrations, not to mention eating and paying the rates.

Or, the IOM Government can enlist the good will of several thousands of KSFIOM depositors by guaranteeing 100% of our deposits, very publicly prosecuting the inside conspriators, enabling IOM to strengthen their global image as a safe saving and investment destination, and giving the UK Government a serious and much-deserved black eye in the process. The positive publicity and synergy flowing to the IOM and its financial services industry would be beyond price. IOM officials would show Messrs Brown and Darling up for what they are, vocally and resoundingly. Can you see it: "We saved the life and retirement saviings of thousands of depositors who trusted us. We are the Isle of Man, where your investments and savings are absolutely safe. We have earned your trust"

Can IOM Government afford to guarantee 100% of our deposits? That is a very different proposition from paying out 100% of our deposits all at once. No bank can do that. I, for one, would be happy to leave my funds in an IOM Government guaranteed bank, at the market rate, for an agreed period, enabling the bank to recover the misappropriated funds through normal trading, through operating its loan book and normal banking services, whilst efforts at recovery of the funds sent to UK continue. Who knows, IOM Government might come out ahead in 5-6 years. Win-win for the "good guys" - IOM and KSFIOM depositors. Black eyes, wanted posters in the post office, and striped suits and scrubs & porridge for the bad guys. Doesn't that have some strong appeal?

Over to you, IOM.

Posted by drglowry on Sat, 24/01/2009 - 14:20
Icelandic bandits started it

Icelandic bandits started it all,
the rest just sat around ticking the right boxes and persuading themselves they were doing the right thing

Posted by coldlightofday on Sat, 24/01/2009 - 13:34
This Labour Government

This Labour Government declared war on offshore banks a couple of years ago. How opportunistic for one to fail now, with a nice push from the government? It is all about politics and we are the acceptable casualties.
I am convinced that with so much secrecy around and no answers at all from anyone messrs Brown and Darling are grinning all the way to the pub over this.
And to think HMG are "representing our interests to the Icelandics" is just utterly ridiculous.
If the truth were ever to be known, and I doubt it ever will, there is enough rope here to hang these bastards from Westminister! This is a third world democracy that is for sure.
I will admit defeat on one issue here: All British dependancy banking centres are risky, unsafe places to deposit money and I shall never do again!

Posted by Hawkerman on Sat, 24/01/2009 - 12:29
The UK Government has frozen

The UK Government has frozen our money. They always claim it was a measure to save it for the depositors. It is all a lie! Once a government grabbed money, one needs crowbars to break it out of their fingers.
howag

Posted by howagcr on Sat, 24/01/2009 - 04:59