How much have we lost (or stand to lose)?

Depositors only: Please describe YOUR situation.
Less than 1000 GBP
1% (9 votes)
1000 to 9,999 GBP
5% (57 votes)
10,000 to 49,999 GBP
30% (373 votes)
50,000 to 99,999 GBP
20% (248 votes)
100,000 to 249,999 GBP
25% (306 votes)
250,000 to 499,999 GBP
12% (150 votes)
500,000 to 999,999 GBP
5% (66 votes)
1,000,000 GBP or more
3% (35 votes)
Total votes: 1244
227M GBP - total funds

227M GBP - total funds represented by us

Calculated as before, using current poll data. Please note this figure is only an indication of the apparent sum, it cannot be proven as we do not have the specific data (though could collect it if members were in agreement.)

Posted by ng on Fri, 30/01/2009 - 12:16
Total funds represented by us - 214M GBP

Calculated as before, using current poll data.

Posted by ng on Wed, 05/11/2008 - 05:17
Total funds represented by us - 211M GBP

Calculated as before, using current poll data.

Posted by ng on Thu, 30/10/2008 - 00:00
Total funds represented by us - 203M GBP

Calculated as before, using current poll data.

Posted by ng on Sat, 25/10/2008 - 17:53
so am I so are we all

So now maybe we can all go and throw ourselves on the welfare system - will they look after us?
Somehow I bet we will be undeserving of this too.

Posted by bellyup on Wed, 22/10/2008 - 04:31
Political Will to Sort this Out, Please!

Agreed. I am furious - absolutely livid - that there doesn't seem to be the political will to assist us. We've been prudent, we've made financial provision for our future - it's madness that we're now being left to fend for ourselves just because it's politically expedient.
IoM authorities and the UK on behalf of the IoM - some political direction and leadership in this fiasco, please!

Posted by DXB on Wed, 22/10/2008 - 04:14
registered members

Where do you get the numbers of registered members from?
If there are 1500 there must be a lot of other people out there who have deposits but havent found this site.I understood about 10,000 people were affected.
How can we reach them?

Posted by bellyup on Wed, 22/10/2008 - 03:13
Simon There are many of us in

Simon
There are many of us in the same boat - see http://www.ksfiomdepositors.netgenius.co.uk/?q=node/410
re depositorswho made requests that were not actioned.
Totally agree re the deafening silence,
We must do all we can to keep the story from dying .
Email everyone you can MPs the treasury committee, Jack Straw etc

Posted by bellyup on Wed, 22/10/2008 - 03:10
Funds in Transit - have a read around the site

Simon,

Have a good read around the site. There has actually been quite a lot about 'Funds in Transit' and what you should do.

They may or may not be frozen in London etc....

Kind Regards

Mat

PS. Have a look at the 'HOPPERS LEGAL ACTION/IN FLIGHT MONIES' forum topic.

Posted by Anonymous on Wed, 22/10/2008 - 03:10
Cash was king!

I was nervous about stock markets for a while so was holding a large amount of cash (for me) of about GBP140k.
I have mortgages in Yen that has rapidly appreciated and now facing margin calls from the lending bank. I needed this money to meet those margin calls. Now I am in negative equity territory and no cash to redress it. I cannot believe that IOM investors are being left high & dry.
I live offshore so couldn't deposit funds with the UK arm (that is now sold on to ING & protected) hence why I was banking in the IOM. the IOM compensation scheme will only underwrite about 20% of my deposits and may take years to recoup.
I actually tried to transfer some of my funds out of my account via the web site at 3am on 8th Oct and it said "Transfers approved" but nothing happened. Is this in teh clearing system or not? It is now 2 weeks and I have not managed to speak to one person about it.
I have tried calling the hotline but just get the message "mailbox is full" and nobody has replied to my e-mail.
I think PWC are doing a good enough job in informing people but where is the Icelandic Govt now or even teh IOM Govt? Gone completely quiet. Iceland were happy to take our funds and now leaving us in the lurch.

Simon

Posted by simon on Wed, 22/10/2008 - 03:04
Total funds represented now 170M or more

Using the same method of calculation.

Posted by ng on Tue, 21/10/2008 - 05:05
re Total funds represented by us - 150M GBP, maybe 300M GPB?

I've no problems giving that info ng, not in top brackets anyway,,

& on the proviso you don't ask for account #'s in few days time :-)

remind again what were your retirement plans,

mmpphh and IT guru with a potential £300m at his fingertips LOL

Posted by skintagainnow on Sun, 19/10/2008 - 19:18
Geographic poll

I'm going to do this, the effort to create a poll is nothing, and the results should prove interesting both for us and the media. Not going to break it down by country, just UK/overseas and citizenship.

Posted by ng on Sun, 19/10/2008 - 19:08
Total funds represented by us - 150M GBP, maybe 300M GPB?

From the poll... indication is 150M or more.

Depends how you work it out of course, and what number you consider the top range to represent, but the latter doesn't make that much difference because it's only a small proportion of the total count.

This is only from those who have done the poll - 758 out of around 1500 registered members, so the real figure might be more like 300M, especially since perhaps depositors with large sums are less likely to have completed the poll? Some registered members are not depositors, but I imagine they are a minority.

Still wondering if we should calculate the exact number, we would have to get you all to give us the numbers of course, and those at the high end especially might be disinclined.

Posted by ng on Sun, 19/10/2008 - 19:03
Geography

It's a very valid point, and has been touched on already - http://www.ksfiomdepositors.netgenius.co.uk/?q=node/235

One problem is the area of "personal privacy" - the more personal data we collect (right now its next to nothing) the more we have to consider this topic.

Possibly a poll as pass one, with the Google Maps idea as a second phase if it's considered useful.

Posted by ng on Sat, 18/10/2008 - 22:10
Geography

It would be useful to know the geographic profile of the members of this site. Could we do a poll to ask people
a) Which country they live in?
b) What is their nationality?

This information would be useful to help target the political or financial authorities in the countries which score highly. For example, I am British and my wife is German. We are joint account holders with KSF IOM. Having written to numerous political contacts in the UK and Iceland we will now start writing to the German authorities. But if there were 20 or 30 other German depositors on this site we could all target the same contacts. Maybe also translate the press release for circulation etc.

What do you think?

Posted by David9J on Sat, 18/10/2008 - 21:38
Poll, how to vote

If the button at the bottom of the poll shows cancel your vote then that means your vote has been recorded. If you're not sure if it was correct, then cancel and vote again.

Posted by ng on Fri, 17/10/2008 - 21:25
how much have you lost

not sure if my earlier message went through. Pls. advse how I add my loss to the poll? I am in the bracket £250,000 to £499,999.

Regards

Two Time Loser

Posted by two time loser on Fri, 17/10/2008 - 14:43
Singer & Friedlander in IOM

Yes I was with Singer & Friedlander in IOM originally before the take over.

Posted by steveejeb on Thu, 16/10/2008 - 14:43
Singer and Friedlander

Don't forget that the existing Singer and Friedlander (a old British bank) had an Isle of Man branch that was merged into KSF(IOM).

Posted by cold-dose on Thu, 16/10/2008 - 14:38
Institutional assets (investment bonds) - £180m ++

Royal Skandia, Aegon Scottish Equitable and AXA have over £170m in deposits. Prudential and Friends Provident are not stating their holdings (FP doesn't seem to know!) but Prudential has 70 clients = est. £13m (based on average from client numbers of first three cos)

Posted by swissloss on Thu, 16/10/2008 - 14:33
Derbyshire Deposits "more than 460 million euros"

This artical is from November 20, 2007.

Ref : http://uk.reuters.com/article/UK_SMALLCAPSRPT/idUKSAT00473020071120

"The bank said the Isle of Man business had total deposits of more than 460 million euros ($673.4 million) at the end of the third quarter."

I have not been able to find a source for the £840 million figure. However, I would have thought that the level of deposits that Kaupthing bought to the table plus new business since last November makes the £840 million figure seem quite possible.

Posted by alanmail on Thu, 16/10/2008 - 14:19
The discrepancies here relate

The discrepancies here relate to total deposited by individual depositors - vs institutions vs other deposits etc.
With estimated 6000-8000 depositors, and the number of users on the site, any resulting figures from a poll wouldn't represent much.

Posted by occams razor on Wed, 15/10/2008 - 22:00
Do we want to know the actual total funds we represent?

We can get the real total by asking people to fill in a form. While we're at it we could collect other data such as geographic location, age, anything really. The problem is the big personal privacy issue. Could be done on the basis that all personally identifiable aspects would later be erased from the system. Would this type information be any use in our cause?

Posted by ng on Wed, 15/10/2008 - 21:54
£84 or 840 million?

I took the £840 million from the post on this site by manxman on Sunday at 22.56 in Actions --> General Actions thread. This gentleman was also at the meeting so there does seem to be an unexplained discrepancy here. However, if you take the median amount of each band above and multiply it by the number of voters in the band the value of deposits comes to more than £84 million. When I did the calculation this morning there were 482 votes. Now there are 571 votes and I have repeated my calculation which now comes to £118 million. Of course this is only a rough estimate as we do not have exact amounts from each depositor.

Posted by David9J on Wed, 15/10/2008 - 20:15
It may be 84 million GBP

This guy who attended meeting in IoM reported the total deposits are £84 million. See this link. What is the original source of £840 million?

Posted by osprey on Wed, 15/10/2008 - 11:03
Total deposits

Someone has posted that the total deposits with KSF IOM were £840 million. A rough calculation using the median amounts from the bands above would indicate that the voting depositors on this site represent about £100 million. I imagine that most of the larger depositors (£1 million and over) would be companies and organisations rather than individuals. These probably covered half the total deposit base (my guess). Have any companies or organisations (eg charities) posted to the site yet? They may have more clout and resources to add to the fight to get our money back.

Posted by David9J on Wed, 15/10/2008 - 08:50
Superman to the rescue!!!

Just watched the C4 news, Excellent that we have at last got some coverage. All involved in this website take a bow, good solid contributions from people like me who are staring into the black hole.

Incidentally, I tried to email the PM over the weekend only to find that the official PM website was out of commission until "working hours" on Monday ( details can be found on www.direct.gov.uk). As a result I faxed directly to No 10 explaining the position and requesting Government intervention in IOM situation.......Have I had any reply I hear you ask? Not a word!!!!!
PM's questions would be an ideal forum.Hope that we can find a friendly MP.

Posted by gerry paul johnson on Tue, 14/10/2008 - 18:42
LOSS

My account should be protected under the scheme as i had luckily a couple months ago transferred some funds out for family medical needs. But i had about US$17,000 in the bank when this all went down. I can't believe the government will allow the huge losses other people will suffer. How can any government allow people to lose money that was provided to a bank for safe keeping. How could that be in Isle of Man's best interest for the future? I think the whole system of compensation scheme should be reconsidered and needs to include corporate accounts as well.
I may not know all the intricate details but it seems that people rush to take their life savings out because they worry the bank will fail and they will lose it. But if it is 100% covered to any amount than people would have no need to run on the bank and the bank would not fail. Of course the government would then need to strictly regulate the use of these deposits. I see no problem with that, deregulation got a few people rich over a few years but it's broke the rest of us who were working hard and saving what we had.
Also, why didn't the government step in sooner or the bank put an emergency limit of withdrawal amounts so that sensibility instead of fear would run the show. Then you could avoid a failed bank and so much loss of money and so many damaged lives. How often in the past months have we seen trading on stock markets halted for part or all of a day around the world.
From what i read and was told this bank did not need to fail. So people stand to lose tons of money when it could have been avoided. Isle of Man was a great place to store and save money because of it's long standing government and geographic location. i felt it was safe there. Now the government has blown that because they did not act quickly or effectively. Who will put there money in IOM now??

Posted by JayC on Tue, 14/10/2008 - 07:34
Registred Users

Agree. This will bring some order (rather then real protection) but I would suggest everyone to be careful with revealing too much personal information. Verification of true identity is something that we cannot do in this forum.

Posted by columbgc on Sun, 12/10/2008 - 12:39
I see no problem in locking

I see no problem in locking many things down to registered users, it's really quite normal.
Anyone can register here of course, and we cannot verify who is who, but at least it prevents the casual non-depositor reader.

Posted by occams razor on Sun, 12/10/2008 - 12:30
Only registered users can vote

Allowing "guest" users might be a good idea, but then anybody visiting the site might vote "for fun" and skew the results.

Posted by ng on Sun, 12/10/2008 - 12:27