DAG IT/Web funding via quarterly site subscription
Update 2/11/09
I still have no firm plan as to how ksfiomdepositors.org sites will continue.
- Some (many?) members are now using the ksfiomdag.com forum area as well as or instead of this area.
- A significant proportion of members will be paid out via DCS.
- Polls here and related discussions indicate that a significant number of members want this forum site to continue.
So, no conclusion really, but just to confirm that for now at least everything continues as before. Site access is free although donations are encouraged. In practise I think we need a third party provider to perform ongoing management and support.
If anyone is willing to take on the task of finding and negotiating with a suitable provider, please join and post in this group.
Update 13/7/09
To summarise, a quarterly subscription fee in now in place. In practice, payment is currently voluntary, as free access may be requested.
-
If you have not already made a donation to IT/web funding, please consider doing so - see the Donate button below. (more information). Record the resulting subscription expiry date here.
-
Bona fide depositors now have the option to formally request free access, via a check-box in the Contributions section of their account profile page.Click here to edit your contributions section.
-
Email notification of posts will be disabled soon for accounts which neither have a paid nor free site subscription in place.
-
Subscription payment for non-depositors will have a different fee structure. The email notification system is no doubt very convenient for those wanting to spy on us, it will no longer be available for free to non-depositors. I have better things to do with my time than provide such a service!
-
No checking is currently performed of a user's reported account expiry date against subscription payments/donations received - that feature will be added in due course, and will initially focus on non-depositors.
-
To date, no members have had access restricted as a result of not having made a voluntary contribution. Hopefully it will stay that way (for bona fide depositors).
-
I am hoping to arrange emergency cover for the web-sites and underlying services during August when I will be on holiday.
Background (original post)
For those that don't know, I run the DAG web-sites from a technical perspective, and provide a level of IT support to the Strategy Team and other members. You can find some information about me on my business site: www.netgenius.co.uk.
I'll skip formality - the situation is I cannot afford to spend time working on the DAG sites, and I believe that time needs to be spent. Right now, for example, a security upgrade to the underlying Drupal CMS needs to be installed, but it won't get done as I am too busy with other work. That is just one example.
IT is my profession - this is NOT a hobby for me! When I originally got involved, back when this all started (doesn't that seem like a long time ago!?) it hadn't even occurred to me to charge for my involvement - I just wanted to help us all get our deposits back. I dumbly assumed that the whole thing would be over (money back!) in a couple of months. Unfortunately, as we all know, that assumption was completely wrong - I am sorry, but I now have to start treating the DAG IT/web function as a professional project, I have put that off too long already. It looks KSFIOM DAG we will be around for a long time to come, and as the DAG continues to evolve so too must the web-sites.
So, the idea of a subscription for membership to the sites has already been presented and discussed - see the survey. It is going ahead, I'm planning to activate it as of June-1. What this means is, as of June 1:
- If you have not paid the subscription, your site membership will be placed on hold.
- Those who have already contributed a sufficient amount to the IT/web fund will get an automatic subscription.
Subscribers will:
- Have full access to the site, be able to make posts and comments, and access technical support.
- Be able to use the "subscription" feature and join "newslists" (to be implemented).
Non-Subscribers will:
- Have limited access to the site (same as for "public" access). This may be further restricted as time goes on.
- Not be able to make posts nor support requests (they will be ignored, sorry.)
- Not be able to use subscription features, i.e. will not be notified when new content is posted.
The subscription fee for depositors will be 15 pounds per quarter. Currently, I can offer no alternative other than payment via PayPal. Once I can justify spending more time, I will look into providing alternatives (cheque, etc.)
Exceptions
-
If you literally cannot afford to pay the subscription fee, please contact me and give brief details. In genuine cases the subscription fee will of course be waived.
-
Journalists and other parties supportive of our cause will be given free access. Please contact me with brief details.
Really, I am sorry, but this is the route I must take. I find that knowing I have responsibility for keeping everything running very stressful considering that actually I can't really justify spending the time to do so.
Process
- Within the next few days, all registered users will have subscription status information added to their account data.
- From June-1 or shortly thereafter, the subscription status information will be used to control/limit access to site functionality.
In the short term, it would save me time if you use the existing donation facility here - http://www.ksfiomdepositors.org/public-page/website-and-it-services-funding to pay an initial subscription (three months, 15 pounds). There is no need to do this if you have already donated an equivalent or higher amount. Setting up the subscription system itself represents a considerable level of work for me, and the time would be better spent on providing more useful services to members.
- I don't know how many people will subscribe. In practice, I will adjust the amount of time I spend dependent on the number of subscriptions received.
Well, that's it. Sorry folks.
Background
The following is a copy of the loose proposal I made some time ago to the Strategy Team. The proposal was not rejected, but basically they're too busy to deal with it. The "DAG legal entity" hasn't happened and it doesn't look like it will, at least in the short to medium term. However, I do think it's potentially an advantage to depositors that control of the web sites remain independent of DST.
WORK INVOLVED
Site maintenance
Installation of regular updates and security updates for both the OS elements (Linux, Apache, MySQL, Postfix) and Drupal Security updates are potentially very urgent, other updates could be done once a week or even once a month without detriment.
There is always a risk that installing an update may break something. In the worst case, the site, or perhaps even the entire server would needed to be restored from backup (many hours, potentially days of work.) In lesser cases, an update might needed to be rolled back. One way to reduce the risk would be to install updates on a development (test) server before installing on the live server. Another approach would be to maintain a "warm" backup site, and not re-mirror until the main site had been verified.
Backups, checking backups.
Backups are currently automatic, but basic. No detailed checking of backup validity is done. Validity checking requires that at least one development/mirror site be built. A development/test site is important anyway so that changes can be tested before being implemented on the live site.
Data security
We currently have no secure (https) connection set up. This ideally requires a dedicated SSL certificate (identifying ksfiomdepositors.org) but could be done using a self-generated certificate. With this in place, we can provide secure connections to the web-site, so that capturing data such as names and passwords becomes less risky. On a related topic, the DAG entity should register under DPA.
Shared data
We can provide central data (contact list, address books) and file storage on the server, or via a third party (probably Google.) This would also imply the need for an https connection (though a dedicated certificate would be less important since only DAG Team members would have access they could ignore identity warnings.)
Resource control
The server currently has around 9 GB of free disk space. This is currently plenty, but will of course gradually get used up as more an more info is posted. File attachments are an issue - if 1000 people all uploaded a 10 MB file, all disk space would be used up. So, file attachments in particular need to be monitored.
Other resources (CPU and bandwidth) are adequate with the current server configuration, and needs are not likely to change - needs monitoring on a regular but not very frequent basis. Increased memory would help the site to run faster, but is adequate.
User support
Most support issues tend to be "lost password", "can't login" and similar. These could be handled by volunteers, but we need some kind of tracking system. Other common issues are how to upload documents - this could be handled by better documentation and a well organised FAQ.
Case Tracking
Case tracking / issue tracking needs to be implemented for various reasons. Right now it's too easy for issues to fall into a black hole (IT and non-IT) or for people to think that "somebody else" is dealing with them. Members ideally need to be able to log issues themselves (otherwise they would come in via email, less efficient.) Apart from the need to track issues, such a system would provide historic information for anyone else who might take over the IT role in the future, making such a task considerably easier and less prone to problems.
Site functionality and bug fixes
-
Need some kind of case tracking system in place so that issues can be prioritised and tracked.
-
Case tracking should be used for any significant implementation, such as implementing a warm site or implementing major Drupal upgrades.
-
Bug fixes and functionality improvements need input from the team as to whether they are worth doing or not.
User and Admin Documentation
There is no documentation as to how the site is set up. This could be a problem if anybody else ever had to take over, or solve some emergency. User documentation could reduce the support load and help users get more out of the sites.
Email services
Right now, @ksfiomdepositors.org email is routed through my development server (since that has the necessary email and anti-spam services already in place.) Ideally, email should be moved to the DAG server or other server - apart from anything else, that would potentially allow a third party to maintain that part of the system.
Need to consider using gmail to provide @ksfiomdepositors.org email functionality. Would need some time to set up, but thereafter could be managed by third party more easily (since no low-level access to our server would be needed, only gmail passwords.)
Member contact
We have the existing notification and "mass contact" facilities. However, they have limitations - I think we should consider a full-blown mailing-list system, "Mailman", to provide better mailing list functionality. This could hook into existing "Groups" structure, but could also be independent of the web-sites if required (people would not need to register on the site, they could "sign-up" for newsletters via email.)
PROJECTS
Out of the above come at least the following projects:
- Research and implement an issue tracking system - could be used for all DAG issues, not just IT/web related.
- Set up a development (test) site and test all changes and upgrades there to avoid risk of breaking the live site.
- Design and implement improved backup and at least a test server to establish backup validity. Consider implementation of a warm site.
- Set up automated monitors (e.g. to send email warnings if disk space falls below some threshold, or is being used up at a higher than normal rate.)
- Consider moving to a dedicated server (non-VPS) to handle additional services (email etc.)
- Set up SSL (requires finalised server location for IP address.)
- Move email services away from my development server, to gmail, main DAG server or some other.
- Investigate and implement Mailman.
- Register under DPA
- Write at least basic system documentation - sufficient to allow an qualified third party to take over. Consider writing user documentation.
The combined total would be many hundred hours of work. Of course, not all these things need to be done, but I do think the backup, test site and issue tracking elements are priorities - beyond those there are useful things which can be done. On top of all this, there is the ongoing site maintenance, user support, and fire-fighting if anything goes wrong, plus new requirements that may arise to support DAG activities. There's certainly enough to keep me busy.
FEES AND FEE BASIS
Rates and charging basis
What are the "going rates" ? One provider - http://www.ctisn.com/ - who replied to my "job" advert said: "Our usual rates are £400 per day so we are extremely competitive in our pricing." Assuming a working day 9 till 5 with 1 hour for lunch (7 hours worked) then that's 57 pounds/hour. They also said "Based on having a guaranteed development of 8 days a month we would reduce the rate down to £300 per day to work out the maintenance fee." - that's 60 hours per month at 43 pounds/hour. I would agree that this is "extremely competitive" for what seems to be a well established UK supplier. I assume it's limited to Mon-Fri standard office hours, and that they would schedule the time around their quiet periods, so any rapid response to urgent issues may be unlikely.
Other guidelines:
formal@face2interface.com (US Based individual) quoted US$ 75 per hour (51 GBP)
jmary@progression-asia.com (French, based in China) quoted €50/hour during the week, €90 for weekends (45/81 GBP)

Continuation of Site
Not all depositors will be paid in full via DCS as many like myself had much larger deposits and much more to lose. To us this site is really the only way in which we can obtain much valued information and share ideas.
I have subscribed and will continue to do so. One questio though I am currently showed as only having paid up to 14/11/2009 despite having made another subscirption recently. Should I be concerned, I would not one day soon find that I cannot log on.
Thanks for everythig you do in running the site Jeff Wilkins
Ongoing management of ksfiomdepositors.org sites
A reminder - please join this group if you are willing/able to help find a new provider.
I have no problem with remaining involved, but in that case, and put bluntly, I have two issues:
Legal responsibility for the sites is a further issue. No external service provider will take that on, so how should this be handled? At a minimum there needs to be a contact point and someone who will take responsibility for necessary responses, decisions and actions.
Fees - Setting the Expiry Date
Many of us have made one or more donations for the IT fund but may have not recorded the date. It may be possible to check with your records (hope you have kept them) and have the expiry date set accordingly? Otherwise, how do we know if we are or not covered by the last payment?
Setting the Expiry Date
The whole thing is based on trust, so for anyone who knows they have made IT contributions but can't remember exactly how much, by all means choose what you think is the right date. If you donated by PayPal (the majority) you can log in to your PayPal account and view historic records.
Update: site/IT subscriptions/donations
Thanks for the support, everyone. A few points:
Just to be clear, nobody will be shut out of the site on June 1st - changes will be gradual, with plenty of time to make your subscription or request free access.
For subscriptions/donations, please use PayPal if at all possible - it makes things so much easier. But if you really need to send via the DAG legal fund that's possible, just hassle for the DAG Treasurer - David9J. Also in that event please contact David via his message form or via email to finance(?)ksfiomdepositors [dot] org
Requesting free access: I will put a form up on the site in due course. In the mean time, please don't email me (earlier I said please email me, sorry, dumb idea - lots of emails!)
Special thanks to those who have contributed in excess of the requested subscription.
PLEASE DO NOT send money if you really cannot afford to do so.
Thanks again.
Please remember ng's great work
I have noticed that at the side of each posting, there is an expiration date of each person's membership. As we all know, ng is not going to cut anyone out of this forum, so I guess that the expiration date is just to remind us that the extremely small subscription fee has expired.
So if you can afford a few pounds, please donate to the IT fund, as we are getting an extraordinary service from ng, and this forum continues to be our life line, and main channel of information.
http://www.ksfiomdepositors.org/sections/funding
Scroll down to bottom of page for IT funding
A small price to pay
I've been a member of this website since the early days and have had 7 months of free access to news, views and invaluable support from other people suffering the same outrage, distress and disbelief at what has happened to us. Therefore, GBP15 for three months of continued access to this lifeline is a small price to pay. ng, my donation is on its way - as are my thanks for all your hard work.
IT Support
NG,
Thanks for all you have done. I have just made a contribution via legal fund (Jackson -"homeless")
Great ng
Thanks for all you have done and do. Have just paid subscription
Donation
Have just sent you, via the DAG Lloyds bank account, 15 pounds for the next 3 months.
Keep up the great work
Thanks ng
Just piad for 3 months. Where would we all be if it wasn't for this website keeping us all in touch with ever changing news, lies, truths, challenges, actions and the support of each other. I think a lot more of us would have been very depressed and suffering even more without being able to communicate wth each other and exchange ideas goals tactics etc. It's been our life raft and we would all have suffered more over this scandal pre internet age as the poor depositirs of failed SIB and BICC bank (Isle of Man!!)
Thanks again ng, DAG and HNW Class 3 group and all worthwile action orienated members here on the DAG.
More than Happy to
More than Happy to Contribute, but cannot use "Paypal". I am sure you would receive all the funding needed if arrangements for payment by Cheque could be arranged.
I'm sure that ng's site would
I'm sure that ng's site would receive all the funding needed if only people would stop saying what they cannot do instead of just getting on with doing it in the manner preferred by the person who has slogged his guts out for those who have used this site for the past seven months. Those who say it can't be done should get out of the way of people who are already doing it!
Charges for this site will kill it's usefulness.
I think adding any kind of charge for this site will diminish it's usefulness. The power is in it being an open forum - so ransoming access against charges seems to be nonsense from a DAG point of view. After all, the ability to reach many people with convincing information over internet was how the SoA could be defeated, which was one of the objectives of the DAG team. Only those who have plenty of money tied-up in KSFIOM will bother with the subscription, making the forum one-sided and rather pointless.
Why not forget about any further 'development', 'projects' and 'server upgrades', and use minimal effort to 'operate and maintain' the site in it's current form, since it's current functions surely suffice ? That may not be attractive as a 'business' but I don't think this site is supposed to be one.
It would be a lousy business plan...
Valid points. I totally agree that restricting access to the site is to be avoided (except perhaps restricting access by non-friendly parties if that were feasible.) However, the donations facility has been in place for many months, yet only a little over 100 members have ever contributed. I know there are those who can't afford to pay 5 pounds per month (they don't have an internet connection since that's rather expensive too, and have sold their computer by now, so are reliant on free access via public libraries etc.)
That may not be attractive as a 'business' but I don't think this site is supposed to be one.
I would point out that is something of a misquote, no doubt unintentional. What I actually said was "...the DAG project starts to become unattractive on a professional basis." I agree the DAG site is not supposed to be a business and indeed it is not (it would be a pretty lousy business plan if the basic objective was to obviate the need your product/service). Is it supposed to be professional however, or at least operated in a professional way?
Regarding server upgrades and such, you are also correct. We can just leave everything alone and keep our collective fingers crossed. Most likely nothing will go wrong. If it does, I would estimate that cost of fixing by a third party (since in that event I would no longer be involved) would be anything from 2000 to 20,000 pounds or more, depending on what happened. In the worst case, all historic data would be lost, and the site would need to be recreated as an empty system. I do stress, the chances of this happening are small. Just like the chances of my house burning down or being destroyed by a flood are small. Nonetheless I have insurance.
For BustedFlat and anyone else who is thinking along the same lines (no offence taken by me, none intended to you by my reply) ... I do not want to be running this thing. If I did, it would be a hobby. I can spend my time here or elsewhere. I like working in a place that I feel I'm helping people and perhaps in small part helping to make the world a better place. But, there are others, and many of them pay a lot better than this one.
So look, here is the root password to the server: ******* -- just login via SSH at port number xxxx and enjoy. So long and thanks for all the fish. From my perspective, this would be a nice option to have.
Yes, you could move the forum element of this site to a "free" forum. Go for it! While we're at it, could we find a way of getting free liquidation services so that Mike Simpson can be fired, oh and perhaps a few free lawyers, and a free PR agency. Surely someone could do all this stuff for us in their spare time? Perhaps as a college project?
Website subscription
The £5/month shouldn't be an issue because those who need the DAG and the site the most i.e. Class 2 depositors can very likely still afford it. So the route to a win appears to be to get class 2's to set up the subscription WITHOUT forcefully blocking-out anyone. That way you'll get some money for your time and the site will retain it's status as communication point for all, and in particular a place for DAG Strategy Team to publish information.
I know there have been various figures pitched around (which I have probably missed) but, assuming the minimal monthly effort required to maintain the site's stability and presence with a bit of contingency in the event of necessary additions, could you describe how many subscribers we actually would need at £5/month? If this is done we'd have an objective i.e. the site can contain something like a banner 'We've got XX subscriptions but we need to reach YY for the site to go on' (hope that's not too much development) - and everyone will know what needs to be done to keep it going. Since you ng have brought this bespoke site to what it is now, and clearly no-one else can easily migrate it to another forum style even if they have the 'root' password etc , you are the one who must determine the subscription limit - so set it according to what you need and close the site if we don't reach it.
I'm sure that people will get behind this. The voluntary one-off contribution thing was always going to be tricky because people just forget about it and returning again and again requires effort (and we're all lazy somehow).
@BustedFlat - Website subscription
Trying to cover all points:
Somebody else with the right skill set could migrate the site easily enough, assuming it would stay on a Drupal platform.
In effect, hardly anybody, if anybody, would ever be locked out, since a free subscription will be available to pretty much anyone who asks for it. I do not want to be judging who is and isn't deserving of such! I'm thinking in terms of a simple form that asks members to confirm that they are depositors, and a "tick the box" approach as to why they cannot pay the subscription fee.
In the absence of sufficient subscriptions, the site would not be closed (unless we can't even afford the approx 30 GBP per month hosting fees.) What would happen is the site would be un-maintained. Most likely things would carry on working, however they might not. It's very difficult to estimate the risk involved. On top, support requests would not be answered, and no updates would be installed (they are often security related, so not installing them could potentially leave a security loophole.)
About 200 subscriptions would allow me to spend the time that I feel is needed at a minimum. 400 subscriptions would allow for enhancement on top of that. Much more than 400 is, I think, unlikely. I disagree that the site should stay as it is - over ensuing months DAG will need to evolve, and the sites need to evolve accordingly.
Tracking subscriptions to show a a report of subscriptions received somewhere on the site (banner or whatever) is feasible. I'm not sure whether it would really achieve much though.
200 subscriptions it is then.
Ok, so let's target 200 subscriptions as a minimum. Should be possible.
Future of DAG Website
I am very appreciative of the tremendous efforts made by DAG and in particular its very comprehensive interactive website. Ng has obviously put in a great deal of effort since October 2008 - this could never have been anticipated or expected of him. Very well done.
However, I wonder if, now there appears to be a clear path to liquidation on 27th May 2009 ( for better or worse we'll never know ), it is not an appropriate time to scale back the services offered by the website ? I for one suggest that after liquidation DAG could issue on-line a monthly status briefing and that any feedback/concerns from DAG members could simply be emailed to DAG without the need for posting on the internet or DAG sending individual reply. If the feedback/concern is a point of wider interest then it could be taken into account by DAG in future monthly status briefings. As the liquidation drags on ( as it is bound to do ) then the DAG briefings could be issued quarterly or even semi-annually.
Just a suggestion but I'll support whatever members want in regard to the future of the website.
Incidentally I have previously sent a couple of donations ( by cheque ) for DAG legal costs - does this qualify me for continued full access to the website after 1 June 2009 ? Being technologically challenged I have no idea how to make payments by "Paypal" but my chequebook is ready.
Good luck to everyone ( we're going to need it, not least if Mike Simpson and his team continue to muddle along ! )
D RAM
No problem with subs
No problem with subs ng. Your records should show that I have previously contributed well in excess of GBP15 per qtr but no doubt you'll let me know. Thanks again for your very valuable service.
subscribed
This morning thank you.
YIPEE! Managed to donate via Paypal
Tried again ng and it worked this time. Keep up the excellent work and thank you again.
Contribution Made
Thanks for all the work, NG. We're pleased that you have decided to charge for your time.
Contributions
Let us not forget thanks to the DAG team, sleepless, elgee etc, etc. They have showed a lot of metal to date on our behalf. Must have been very frustrating.
Web-site
Thank you for all your work. We will contribute but could you accept a cheque as we have had problems with pay-pal. Thanks again for all your work.
Contribution made.
Please disregard my earlier posting. We have just made our contribution through the Pay-Pal system. Was easy this time. Couldn´t do it before. Anyway, please keep up your brilliant work. We really need this site, now more than ever, for a well-focused, united front against all those who have put us through this hell since October and so that we can get our money back from them.
ng you are worth every penny
We are grateful for all you are doing for us and we fully understand that you have work commitments that must take priority.
We have already donated on previous occasions, but will certainly donate again.
Thank you for all the many hours you must put into this site, we are all so glad that you are able to do this.
Sent
It´s all been said before. Thanks ng, thanks, thanks. I don´t like using Paypal but have done so for this.
Donation sent
It's all been said but I'll say it once again! THANKS ng for all your hard work and commitment. I've just sent my donation via Paypal.
One payment system for Legal and IT expenses
Thank you so much for all you are doing, and I am more than willing to contribute to an IT fund. But, like many others, I am not happy to use Paypal and think the idea of paying into one fund for both Legal and IT expenses could be the answer, if it is impossible to pay by bank transfer or cheque into your account. Can a way be worked out to do this?
ONE PAYMENT SYSTEM FOR IT AND LEGAL EXPENSES
Dear ng,
I do not use paypal and would rather pay subscriptions by direct bank transfer.
As there is also an ongoing requirement for donations to the DAG Legal Fund would it be possible to make one bank tranfer to DAG Legal to include funds for IT which the Treasurer could consolidate and pass to you?
Could you kindly look into this and see if it is possible to set up?
Thanks for your continues efforts on our behalf.
Kind regards,
Mike
Direct Bank Transfer
I too would much prefer direct bank transfer - using DAG existing account would be best if at all possible I´d suggest.
IT funding via DAG Legal Fund
I guess I'll have to ask David (DAG Treasurer) ... he has done this in the past, but obviously receiving a hundred (?) payments of 15 pounds , especially if they're cheques rather than transfers is not insignificant work for him. I do hear what a lot of you are saying about PayPal, but it offers huge advantages in simplicity, automated accounting and reporting, etc.
IT SUBS VIA LEGAL FUND
Dear ng,
Any update on making IT subscription payment via the Leaga Fund please?
Kind regards,
Mike
Bank transfer
Transfer would be fine, rather than cheque!
Alternative payment method for subscriptions
Firstly, thanks everyone for the support!
PayPal alternative
As an alternative to PayPal - www.moneybookers.com - this is a well-established UK company and though they are not on the scale of PayPal I consider them something of a market leader, at least in UK/Europe. You will need to have or create and account there in order to make payments. In the short term, payments need to be sent to my account name there: moneybookers(?)netgenius [dot] co [dot] uk -- When I get time I will add some buttons/links here to streamline making payments via moneybookers.
Cheques and BACS
I don't have a UK account any more (thanks to a screw-up last year by HSBC, if it weren't for that, my KSFIOM funds would have been in ING UK and I wouldn't even be here now!). Receiving UK cheques and BACS are not really feasible because the resulting charges would make a huge hole in a 15 pounds payment. Ok, so the solution is for me to set up a "UK" off-shore account, ha ha ha!
Why not PayPal?
Those that can't use PayPal due to having changed country - basically you need to set up a new PayPal account in your current country.
Those who can't use PayPal due to lack of suitable bank cards. For UK PayPal accounts, you can use bank transfer from a UK bank account to fund your PayPal account - this is explained on the PayPal site.
For those who refuse to use PayPal due to past problems or generally not liking PayPal, I do understand, they are a pain to deal with their reputation for customer service is not good -- but for the most part their system works very well, and is one of very few which is available worldwide.
@ng - What about euros?
Presumably your account is in euros ?
So why cannot at least some of us pay you directly in euros?
Just a thought ... personally I don't mind as I still have a few pounds in an offshore current account (NOT KSFIOM!).
site donation
Firstly ng many many thanks for your continuing and tireless efforts in running this site. Of course I wish to subscribe to its continuance, but even though I use paypal, I cannot get any links to pay this. Could you email me (I am on your email link) with a sort code and bank account number and I will set up a mandate for this
Thanks again steve
PayPal button
Are you saying the PayPal button doesn't work? Here it is again:
Do you see it? What happens when you click it? - it should take you to a page on the paypal site, showing it@ksfiomdepositors.org at the top of the page. The button and the PayPal systems that it links to definitely work - if it doesn't work for you that's either some kind of configuration issue or possibly trojan infection on your PC.
IT Donation
Ng - thank you for the Donate button. I think I have managed to send you the subscription although I am not very good with computers! Thank you for everything you are doing to keep the site up and running. Would be lost without it.
paypal/ng
Hi ng, Yes that worked fine and confirm I have made payment of £15 through it Regards steve
Subscribe
Thanks Ng for all your work, there are some great people that walk this planet, you are one of them.
Good value for money at 15 pounds, hope everyone contributes.
Contribution
I tried paypal b4 and got stymied cos I moved country.
Is there any other way--e.g. do you have a UK bank account as I can easily send money to that from my a/c on line.
Reagards and a million thanks for your time and effort which is appreciated--I know how much time you have spent--bloody hours and hours---have a break and spend some of the cash and treat your nearest and dearest to a massive Paella
Bob in Davao
Sub
To ng:
Sorry, PAYPAL is a non-starter as I've had all sorts of trouble with it in the past.
Please e-mail me on the address I use on this site. I will then give you my business e-mail address, and we can then arrange a UK cheque to a a suitable destination, either your business or bank as you prefer.
Very many thanks for everything you have done.
SBS
subscription - PLEASE NOT PAYPAL
ng,
I shall be eternally grateful to you for setting up and keeping this site going.
PLEASE give me some method other than Paypal. Increase my sub if you have to to pay for it. Can you really not set up an apartado in Madrid or a PO box in UK ?
Thanks
Subscribed [of
Subscribed [of course!].
Thanks for what you have done and the past, mate: it's a comfort to know that the small subscription charge will keep you there in the future.
Thank you ng
Without this website - where would we have been? It has helped me emotionally, spiritually, mentally and financially - I wouldn't have known anything about the EPS 1 & 2, or the recent 'vote'.
I have made small contributions before but I'm about to send my £15. Thanks for all you've done ng.
And thanks to all the other DAG 'behind the scenes' crew.
Happy to contribute but please not by PayPal
NG, I am more than happy to contribute to your costs and for your time and 15 pounds is very good value for keeping this site going as it's a lifeline for many of us. I tried just now to send the money to the IT Fund via PayPal but it's such a horrible system or I am so stupid (I think it's a combination of both) that I cannot do it eg. it's asking me to send my contribution to an address in the US with no other option! Therefore, I would ask that if there was some way we could send you a cheque or ask our banks to send a transfer, it would be a lot easier for some of us, I am sure. I am sorry if this will cause you extra admin work but I am really anxious to help keep you on board but just cannot use PayPal - they are as awkward and as hard to understand as the Isle of Man Treasury and their ilk involved in this matter. Thank you again for keeping this lifeline going so well and for so long.
Not before time
ng ... without this site to read exactly what's going on with this fiasco and have the feeling that I am not alone in this - I could not have survived the last 8 months... The future as you say is still a long road to tread and we all need this site to be there to feed us information and allow us to ask questions of those here that are more knowledgable in the financial / legal world than myself.
You clearly state how to contribute and I will be doing so although I would also be happy to send you a personal cheque so you get all the money!!
thanks so much for all you have done in building and maintaining this site to date - may it long continue.
Jolly Good Show NG
You have done a lot and it is appreciated by I think ALL. Send the Bank Details where I can send the £15 Monthly, ASAP
Keep up the good work.
Spanish.