Where to move accounts?

  • Nixi
  • 20/10/08 31/05/09
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Posted: Tue, 15/09/2009 - 07:30

A number of expat people have asked me: "where can I put my account if not on the Isle of Man?"
Being UK based myself, I haven't got answers..

What are others doing?
If there's already a thread on this.. can someone point me the right way?

Thanks!
Nick

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Why Save in Sterling?

  • D RAM
  • 13/10/08 01/08/14
  • unspecified
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  • Wed, 23/09/2009 - 05:14

I am not a financial expert but suggest that we KSFIOM savers should look beyond savings in Sterling as we have been badly let down by lack of support from the British government albeit our savings in Sterling have long benefited the UK's balance of payments. Particularly those of us who are expats paid in other currencies who have converted savings to Sterling. If the UK government feels no obligation to us to recover our savings why should we continue to support its overvalued currency? I suggest we look at Euros or even US dollars to get the benefit of currency appreciation ( although the Euro has already appreciated considerably relative to sterling ). Possibly an even better option is the Australian dollar which offers a better interest rate and may offer prospects for appreciation?

I live in Hong Kong and its a great banking centre and there are many reputable banks, not least HSBC and Standard and Chartered ( both well established and very big british banks ). Interest is paid free of tax and the HK government has guaranteed bank deposits until end 2010.

Obviously whatever we do we should seek expert advice.


I wasn't!

  • follow_the_tao
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Tue, 20/10/2009 - 02:49

But my 'savings' are now in sterling thanks to the IOM fuck-up.

When you've lost so much your heart sort of goes out of playing currencies.
The 'QE 2' of USD and GBP are obviously a disaster.

I'm lost for words, short of "Fuck the IoM and the UK."


Where to stick it

  • chipmunk
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 19/10/2009 - 22:00

Hong Kong...yes its pretty safe but almost no interest but I too chose HK and put what little I have left in HSBC Hong Kong............

ps...Why DRAM...???...I made all the money I lost in IOM......................in Hong Kong ...supplying ...DRAM...interesting


Bank account outside UK

  • Brabander
  • 15/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 29/09/2009 - 18:31

I am resident in the UK but I have Euro accounts in 3 other European countries. I have also had a Sterling accounts in France at various occasions during past decade.
Whether you hold your money in Sterling or in Euro or another currency is dependant on the comparative interest rates you can get and the relevant currency movements you believe will occur during the life time of your account.
My experience tells me that it is currently better to hold your savings in Euros as the interest rate differential with Sterling is virtually zero. Macro economic considerations mean that in the longer term Sterling is more likely to weaken against the Euro than strengthen. The short/medium exchange rates are more dependant on currency speculation and the over reaction to "news flashes" by the currency traders/speculators.
I have never had any problems in opening Sterling or Euro bank accounts and I get my interest paid gross of tax.

By the way, if I had followed my own advice I would not have transferred money from my account in France to Singer and Friedlander in the IOM. I would not only have continued to have access to my account but I would also have made substantial exchange rate gains! However, I was too much swayed by the higher interest rates available with S&F!


Why Save in Sterling? Response

  • tonycBrisbaneOz
  • 12/10/08 31/05/13
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  • Thu, 24/09/2009 - 23:25

This is not a piece of financial advice, only my personal view based on observing the Australian Dollar and Sterling (and to a lesser extent the US Dollar)

In historical terms the Australian Dollar is very expensive at the moment, I'm not saying it won't stay this way and I suspect it will be like this whilst other comparable economies have near 0% interest rates. I personally would like it to become less expensive. Also, when it does fall against other currencies it falls very quickly, look at the currency charts for August 2007 and October 2008. Despite the "strength" of the Aussie economy it is still a small (by G8 standards) and remote economy.

The Australian Dollar is generally sustained by high commodity prices. My own personal view is that high house prices here are also playing a part just like they did in the US and UK.

The Australian Government, like other developed countries, has also embarked on a stimulus spending spree. It also has, for years, had pretty generous middle cass welfare, and guarantees bank deposits up to $1m until sometime next year. The government has not had to bail out the banks. There was a banking crisis here in the early 90s so I'm told.

I was hopoing to move my money here in October 2008 but the Uk government got it before I could.

Regards, TonyC


Try Norther Rock

  • Julienne
  • 16/10/08 31/08/09
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  • Tue, 22/09/2009 - 09:18

Try this web site -- read the small print at the bottom --
http://www.northernrock-guernsey.co.gg/

Exert from their web page re guarantee :-
*Temporary Public Ownership: What It Means For You

The UK Government has announced its intention to take Northern Rock into temporary public ownership.

The UK Government believes that this is in the best interests of customers and taxpayers.
Customers are not affected by this change.
The guarantee arrangements for Northern Rock (Guernsey) Limited, agreed through Northern Rock with the Bank of England and HM Treasury remain in place.
The terms and conditions of your savings account remain unchanged.
Northern Rock's operations in Guernsey remain open for business as usual.
Questions and Answers
> Are there any intentions to close Northern Rock’s Guernsey operation?
Northern Rock has no current plans to close its operations in Guernsey. Northern Rock (Guernsey) Limited, therefore continues to conduct business as normal.

You will receive at least six months advance written notice of the termination of the legal undertaking if this company were to cease being a subsidiary of Northern Rock.

> How do I deposit additional funds into my account?
If you would like to deposit additional funds with us, you can do so at any time by cheque or electronic transfer (CHAPS/SWIFT). Cheques are only accepted in Sterling, drawn on a UK bank or building society.

Electronic transfers can be made in Sterling and in any major currency. Your bank may make a charge for this service, but it does mean that your deposit will start to earn interest immediately. Simply ask your bank or building society to forward funds to:

Bank Name: Lloyds TSB Bank, Guernsey
Sort Code: 30-93-73
Account Name: Northern Rock (Guernsey) Limited
Account Number: 01207246
Reference: 'Your Name'

Note that if you are paying funds into an Offshore Euro Direct Saver, Offshore Euro 7 or Offshore Dollar 7 account, then please refer to the 'Adding to Your Investment' section of the product literature for further details.

> I'm a new customer, are my deposits covered by the guarantee?
Yes. So long as the amount of guaranteed funds is not exceeded. Should the balances under management with Northern Rock (Guernsey) Limited hit or exceed the value of the amount guaranteed then we will inform Customers at the time of deposit or Account Application that such deposits and any subsequent deposits will not be covered under the guarantee arrangements. In addition, we will also write to existing Customers to inform them that the guarantee arrangements are no longer in place for additional deposits.

> Will you tell me if my deposits are no longer covered?
Should the balances under management with Northern Rock (Guernsey) Limited hit or exceed the value of the amount guaranteed then we will inform Customers at the time of deposit or Account Application that such deposits and any subsequent deposits will not be covered under the guarantee arrangements. In addition, we will also write to existing Customers to inform them that the guarantee arrangements are no longer in place for additional deposits.

> Can I still withdraw money from my account?
If you still wish to make a withdrawal, you may do so in accordance with the Terms & Conditions of your account.*

All this featured in panorama last night - - seems they are 100% protected and UK residents - who live in UK & should bank in UK are sending their money to Guernsey and tax dodging !!!
Anyone in EU can get interest paid gross and should declare to own tax authorities !!!

Time Panorama picked us up as a programme and pointed out we are NOT tax dodgers and we have LOST our money !!!!


Re Northern Rock Guernsey

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Tue, 29/09/2009 - 17:12

Hi Julienne,

Before putting your money in Guernsey, I would suggest you read this

http://www.thisisguernsey.com/2009/09/28/give-offshore-banks-a-wide-berth/

Their new compensation scheme is clearly worse than the IoM's !


Is anyone putting (all) their money into property now??

  • sabi Star
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • unspecified
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  • Sat, 19/09/2009 - 08:19

In the absence of finding a bank and reasonable interest rates - is anyone considering putting their cash into UK ( or elsewhere such as USA) property now and renting it out? Although property is still uncertain - there has been some recovery and at least one would still have bricks and mortar - instead of losing it all in off-shore banks ( see the Guardian article about great weakness now of off-shore island - link elsewhere). I know "buy to let" has been hard hit but that was mostly affecting people with mortgages - any thoughts? I saw that older couple who used to be maths teachers whose property portfolio = GBP1,000,000s is now thinking of selling it - so perhaps not the right time?! But what to do?!


better in property..

  • hippychickrobbed
  • 03/11/08 31/05/09
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  • Tue, 29/09/2009 - 17:24

nonone can take it away from you, and you are always a winner as time goes by, usually it goes up. Also no one can freeze it and include it in any liquidation.


I think that its never a good

  • manx-person
  • 17/10/08 31/05/09
  • not a depositor
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  • Sat, 19/09/2009 - 16:53

I think that its never a good idea to put all of your money into any one thing.


My take on why not to buy property:

  • AnneD
  • 15/10/08 01/09/09
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  • Sat, 19/09/2009 - 10:48

Anyone considering buying property may like to look at www.housepricecrash.co.uk

Having now lived through 3 property crashes, and investigating the banking/derivities market in 2005, which ultimately gave my husband and I the reason to sell our business in July 2007. My initial take on this boom and bust still remains the same. The property crash has not really started in the U.K, America still has a long way to go and from my findings we are just about to be hit with another wave of defaulting property around the world, starting in America.

Anyway, the above web site is a good starting point to look at what is happening in the world rather than what we are told is happening.


@AnneD

  • Wanda
  • 12/10/08 31/08/09
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  • Sat, 19/09/2009 - 13:53

I agree wholeheartedly with your take on the present state of the housing market. I'm in the US and the word on the street is just as you said - the next wave of defaulting property has yet to hit the market, further diluting property values. What is not being talked about (but is obvious if you really look for the signs - something I've learned to do since this whole Icelandic/IoM experience!) is the knock-on effect when all the shopping malls start emptying out because no-one is buying their goods. The ripple effect from all of that lost rent, property taxes, jobs, housing for employees, etc. etc. doesn't bear thinking about, but think about it we must. Remembering the adage..."when America sneezes, the rest of the world catches a cold"..... I think your statement - "the property crash has not really started in the UK" - is spot on.

Thanks for the link to the housepricecrash website - very interesting.


Are these "on-shore" accounts below automatically taxed?

  • sabi Star
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Fri, 18/09/2009 - 06:29

Some of the accounts listed below seem ideal - but what about tax?
Anyone find out whether accounts in UK, France or Ireland are taxed by the local tax authorities even if the account holder is not resident in that country? What are the various rates of tax on unearned income?


Most, but not all, banks will

  • Anonymous
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  • Fri, 18/09/2009 - 08:37

Most, but not all, banks will pay interest gross if you fill in the correct form - ask them. First Direct which is part of HSBC will pay gross to us in France, although their interest rates are pants.


HSBC UK

  • caledonia
  • 14/10/08 30/09/09
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  • Thu, 24/09/2009 - 13:02

Although no problem to open savings accounts with HSBC banks in the UK, with foreign addresses - I was advised they have stopped accepting the form exempting you from tax at source. It is for you to claim it back.


With the Halifax accounts you

  • expatfrance1
  • 15/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 18/09/2009 - 07:35

With the Halifax accounts you can phone them and have interest paid gross if you are a non UK resident.


Investec High 5 account-

  • Anonymous
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  • Thu, 17/09/2009 - 08:03

This is open to UK non-residents and is currently paying just over 3%, three months fixed. I have not done my homework yet and don't know the background, security etc. Anyone out there have any knowledge of Investec ?


Investec UK only

  • cerberus
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Tue, 22/09/2009 - 07:41

The Investec High 5 Account application form says "United Kingdom (residents only)". Did I go to the right place?


Cerberus

  • Anonymous
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  • Tue, 22/09/2009 - 08:55

Yes, it is slightly misleading. I emailed them and they confirmed that the account is open to non UK residents and they emailed an application form. I sugggest you do that. They have been very efficient so far.


Investec

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
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  • Wed, 14/10/2009 - 14:35

"Located in the UK, the Channel Islands, Switzerland and Ireland..." -- my guess is that if you are not UK resident your account will be in the channel islands - this is how all the banks have been offering facilities to expats for years.


Investec

  • 4lifeboats
  • 19/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 15/10/2009 - 13:13

Hi all,I have been in touch with Investec and have been assured that the account will be held in the UK mainland and that we would be covered by the FSA 50K compensation if god forbid the worse happened again.

(We live in France .)

I will check this out again before going any further.


Investec

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
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  • Mon, 19/10/2009 - 10:46

Thanks for that. Please post more info when you have it.


Where to put accounts

  • Cawdor
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Tue, 15/09/2009 - 21:48

Yes, I raised this issue a few weeks ago when I mooted placing an advertisement to banks to tailor an account for us or make existing ones accessable. They must be aware of the demand here. I thought it would also draw attention to folk leaving the IoM , thus reinforcing the "Don't bank" message.
However there was not a great response. Following ng's suggestion I made an enquiry to the Co-op but their system directed me to their Guernsey operation. Thanks but no thanks.
I also looked at AIB (Allied Irish) where an email posted on their site elicited a phone call from them saying I could open an account in Ireland but I'd have to pop into a branch in person for ID procedures. That would have suited me fine only I have no plans to go half way round the world to open an account.


If you can get to the UK on a

  • expatfrance1
  • 15/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Wed, 16/09/2009 - 18:19

If you can get to the UK on a visit, Halifax will allow non UK residents to open a limited number of accounts if you go into a branch. At the moment these are the Guaranteed Reserve Account offering 4.5% fixed for 3 years and the Guaranteed Stepped Income Account, fixed for 5 years 4.25% Year 1, 4.75% year 2, 5.25% year 3, 5.75% year 4 and 6.5% year 5.

Scottish Widows bank will also allow non UK residents to open a fixed interest account.


Where to bank

  • clodhopper
  • 18/01/09 31/05/09
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  • Tue, 15/09/2009 - 17:47

In the expectation of receiving our DCS payments we have opened an account with Barclays. They have a number of branches throughout France and the interest rate was 5% for the first 3 months. Good Luck!


@clodhopper -- where to bank

  • burns284
  • 19/04/09 30/11/09
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  • Tue, 15/09/2009 - 20:45

But I suppose that this would be an account in Euros not Sterling ?


clodhopper

  • clodhopper
  • 18/01/09 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 17/09/2009 - 17:10

Yes it is euros but we gave the bank a sterling cheque and they convert but there are other exchange companies who could transfer large sums on your behalf - we have yet to investigate these.


Where to place money

  • shellshocked
  • 23/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Tue, 15/09/2009 - 10:52

HSBC is your best bet, we hold account with them in the UK despite having an overseas address - forget Building Societies, usual problem.

The other option is National Savings and Investments which allow you to open account with an overseas address. Check out www.nsabdi.com or telephone 00 44 500 500 000


Which bank?

  • caledonia
  • 14/10/08 30/09/09
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  • Tue, 15/09/2009 - 10:00

I have just come back from the UK. Unfortuantely due to family commitments we could not be there to support Nixi but it sounds like he did a great job - well done! Whilst there, I walked into an HSBC bank and had no problems opening a savings account with a foreign address. As soon as I mentioned 'opening an account' I got pushed to the front of the queue - felt like the good old times were back for a moment! I had passport for ID and a bank statement for proof of address - thats all. Lousy interest rates, but hopefully safer than offshore and fingers crossed they can only go up! Now trying to s p r e a d money around. Will post any more info I get which may be of interest.


HSBC account UK - question for Caledonia

  • jmf
  • 16/10/08 31/10/09
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  • Thu, 24/09/2009 - 11:02

I've only just found your message regarding HSBC. Do you have to be a UK passport holder to open a savings account with them?


jmf from Caledonia

  • caledonia
  • 14/10/08 30/09/09
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  • Thu, 24/09/2009 - 13:06

I do hold a British passport, which I produced purely for identification purposes - I'm afraid I don't know if they accept other passports, but maybe they do -worth a try if you are interested.


HSBC - thanks Caledonia

  • jmf
  • 16/10/08 31/10/09
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  • Thu, 24/09/2009 - 21:04

Yes, worth a try. Thanks, jmf


Where to move accounts?

  • jerrawee
  • 16/11/08 31/05/09
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  • Tue, 15/09/2009 - 09:19

Try Premium Bonds. Govt guarantee and winnings are tax free.


building societys

  • hippychickrobbed
  • 03/11/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 24/09/2009 - 15:20

Before all of this I had our funds in building societys, safe as houses in the uk..abbey national is good


Premium Bond winnings NOT tax free to expats

  • conned
  • 13/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Thu, 24/09/2009 - 11:23

It should be noted here that Premium Bonds winnings are only tax free in the UK.
Expats have to declare winnings to the tax authority where they reside.

The maximum Bond holding is £30k per person.


Premium bonds

  • Codpeace
  • 23/10/08 30/11/12
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 15/09/2009 - 12:13

I know you cannot own these if you live in USA. If you change your address to a US address you are asked to redeem them.


Not in the USA

  • Anonymous
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  • Tue, 15/09/2009 - 12:43

The NS&I website (incidentally it's www.nsandi.com, not as quoted above) seems to allow buying Premium Bonds if you live outside the UK, although you can only apply by post with the usual proof of identity. It's probably more to do with the USA's internet gambling restrictions. It does suggest on the NS&I site that you should check the rules of your country of residence. It'd be a bugger if you won a million then found you're not entitled to your winnings....


Prudence

  • shellshocked
  • 23/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Tue, 15/09/2009 - 13:58

Apologies, typo error in NSI web address.
I think once the initial proof of identity and address is done via the post which is tedious, I believe, you can make further investments online. Not sure about USA. I live in UAE and no problem from there.


Chance to get facts on Iceland creditor situation

  • barrona
  • 17/11/08 31/05/09
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  • Tue, 15/09/2009 - 07:44

According to a daily bulletin I receive, more than 110 financial institutions worldwide are owed 60bn pounds by the Icelandic banks. Gunnar Andersen, the director general of the FME, Iceland's financial regulator, is talking to an organization called Complinet next week in a live interview about the Icelandic banking crisis, the compliance lessons and crucially, for us, where creditors stand.

There is a live webinar on 24/9/2009 at 3pm BST where Andersen will be interviewed.

I unfortunately, cannot attend the webinar but it may be useful if a member of the DST could?