When is the next payment

  • alandob
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
Posted: Fri, 30/09/2011 - 18:53

Hi everyone,

Does anyone know when we expect to get the next "dividend" payment..

Regards, Alan

0
Your rating: None

Comment viewing options
Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Hi everyone, Do we have a

  • alandob
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 27/10/2011 - 14:48

Hi everyone,

Do we have a date yet? I know people have replied with their understanding that late Oct/Mid Nov will be our next payment, but it would be great to have a firm date.

Kind regards to all,


@alandob: no date yet. Would

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 27/10/2011 - 15:09

@alandob: no date yet.

Would expect announcement soon as the last date for new claims to be included has now passed. But I know no more than you (ie within 2 months of 27 Sept).

Just keep an eye on the bank website.


Next dividend announced

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 13/10/2011 - 09:00

Announced today on KSFIOM website: 6th dividend of at least 9.5/£ to be paid within two months of 27 September.

http://www.kaupthingsingers.co.im/Pages/2011/October/13October2011.asp


When will we get a sniff of some of our money?

  • conned
  • 13/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sat, 08/10/2011 - 08:57

Only when we have suffered, been led about by the nose, traumatised and dropped down a big hole, then they might let us have a sniff of a little bit of it. That will be just in time to start the torturing procedure all over again. It is designed to knock the stuffing out of you.


To Alandob

  • Gordon 45
  • 22/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 02/10/2011 - 19:35

Hi Alan,

I was hoping that the statement out on the 30.9.2011 from the JLs was one about our next dividend. Based on my figures I thought we had 5.9p/£ available at end of Aug figures.

But thought JLs might wait until late Sept to hopefully pick up the approx £5m to pay out 6.4p/£ and that would give us 80% back overall at this juncture.

But if they had a poor Sept, which could be quite probable then once the got the £12.305m (at least) from E&Y (KSFUK) w/c 3.10.2011 then they would have, I think approx 7.32p/£ available to pay out.

Or if they waited untill Dec to pay out they would have at least 8p/£+.

So we all wait with baited breath, but should here very soon re the dividend and the amount.

Gordon 45


KSF IOM Press Anouncement

  • sandy
  • 16/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Fri, 07/10/2011 - 16:33

I rarely write comments these days, as I am too disgusted with how our money is being spent. Not only has the JL cost us half a million pounds for this month’s effort, I hope he can sleep at night with the crap he writes to us. I assume he locks himself up at night and is afraid to walk the streets, as I would be if I was in his position.

The facts in this month’s report again just doesn’t add up yet again???
This month BS is “two facilities were redeemed in full and one in part realising £3.7 million overall”. So it would be appreciated if someone from our “so-called” committee can explain how the “number of facilities” itemised in August is “60” but in September is now only “57”. Although I left school nearly half a century ago, I still calculate “3” not “2”. Furthermore, the “capital run-off” for August was £130,503,450 but for September, using only my simple maths tells me a difference of £130,503,450 - £125,924,828 = £4,578,622, which seems to differ from the figures provided by the JL. Seems the sum of £4,578,622 - £3,700,000 = £878,622 has just disappeared.
It would be appreciated, considering the extortionate fee the JL takes from us, if he could provide some real truth in his report. Although I appreciate in today’s normal life being ripped-off, but suggest a better attempt be made to cover up the corruption. Even basic maths tells a different story!!!.


@Sandy

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Fri, 07/10/2011 - 18:09

Hello Sandy,

What you are seeing in this month's report is similar to what occurs in every monthly report and the only way to determine the 'truth' (as far as can be ascertained) is to do as you have done and try and work the sums out yourself.

This month reveals a change in data that has not happened for a long time - 'set-off' has been applied and this has the effect of reducing the original value of the loan book (£416m) by the amount paid out for set-off claims (£14.9 increased to £15.2m) thereby reducing the effective value of the loan book to £400.8m. There is also the sum of £2.6m which has been written-off that further reduces the effective value down to £398.2m. Balancing these reductions is the variable foreign exchange rate whuch is currently favouring our position to the tune of £15.9m. This means that the current effective value of the Loan Book is £414.1m - representing a loss of just 0.46% from its original value. Allowing set-off has effectively removed this creditor from the list of creditors because 'set-off' creditors are repaid 100% and thereby removed from the list (hence the apparent anomaly in the creditor count). There have been 3 creditors in total removed from the list as you rightly observe. (Not immediately obvious or well explained).

Your calculation is correct and £4.6m was the total gross repayment to the loan book during September, but forex lost £700,000 since August, which together with the £0.3m in set-off (deduced from £15.2 minus £14.9m) takes a million off the £4.6m that you calculated, on top of which the JLs always tend to 'round' upwards making the returns look more favourable. It is perhaps coincidental that the single debt of £249.6k payable in 2016 has been cleared in full, this might be the loan repaid in set-off, but the JLs are not revealing this (yet). I think they could do a much better job of explaining things, but being obscure appears to be an unfortunate trait of theirs. Hope this explanation makes things a little less cloudy!

Ice


To Icecrusher

  • Gordon 45
  • 22/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sat, 08/10/2011 - 10:50

Icecrusher,

I thought of replying to Sandy, but then thought i would do my monthly calcs and then reply, and yes you are correct in saying the 3rd creditor off the Loan book summary is the 2016 loan.

The 2016 loan that has been cleared in full is due to 'set off'. I asked this question probably well over a year ago when all loans appeared to have been 'rejigged' by the JLS and only one loan was left to be recovered after Spring 2014. So I have been waiting patiently on the outcome of this loan as once it had gone we were back into a situation of all loans in theory paid back by Spring 2014. Obviously it would be foolish to assume this will be the case, but it is good news in the sense, that the current last date for loans repayments has been contracted by approx 2 years.

Very shortly, I think, we will have 80%+ of our cash back (based on IOMG figures, as they see it). So we are getting there, problem now is the value of the 10 largest loans versus the smaller loans. This has to affect returns from now on unless we get these large loans, inc the largest loan, back in. But still feel 90% is possible by Dec 2012, although it could be one dividend next year, and that might be later in the year, as I think anything above 6.4% in our imminent dividend could affect a 5% return by next June..

Gordon 45


Gordon 45, Thanks for

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sat, 08/10/2011 - 19:40

Gordon 45,

Thanks for confirming that the set-off repayment was indeed for the £0.25m due in 2016.

I pretty much agree with your last paragraph too; I think we are going to see a very large roll-over of debt going into 2012-2014 and this will impact upon returns next year. I have a feeling that we could see a return of around 7% very shortly, but that might be the last payment we'll see for several months.

Ice


To Icecrusher

  • Gordon 45
  • 22/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 09/10/2011 - 12:19

Icecrusher,

I'm just about finished my update that includes the Sept figures, just got to get my wording finalised. I agree entirely re our dividend that's now due. I get around 7.3p/£. I had hoped to see two 5p/£ dividends next year that would have got us up to 90%. But that was based on getting a max of 6.4p/£ just now (equating to 80% overall so far). But unfortunately we did not get £5m net in, in Sept that would have allowed that to happen, if it had, it would have left the £12.305m due on the 5.10.2011 from E&Y to go towards the next 5p/£ next year (my thoughts in June2012).

So I agree with you we will get the benefit of the £12.305m in this dividend, but that wiill leave us light for next year. Still think on my figures just finished that we might squeeze a 5p/£ by next June (as we have 9 months to collect the cash in, but less chance of the further 5p/£ I had hoped for in Dec 2012. But we should then pick up the missing bit by June 2013 instead of Dec 2012, if the JLs bring in the lower estimate of 84.83% per year + the ongoing 5p/£ from KSFUK every 6 months.

As we both have said the 10 large loans have now become very significant, as we can no longer depend on high early returns from later years, only a total of circa £28m due back between 2013/2014, based on the Sept figures update. And we know the £8m due back in 2014 is 1 loan (a large loan at that). So even at an early return of around 30% would only yield £8.4m - not a lot.

The other part of the 10 large loans is they still total around £96m until we get a further update from the JLs. I have been informed there is some movement there and I hope toget some info later in the month. And I will update all of you if I get data. But right now circa £96m out of £125.9M = 76.2% of the £125.9m. So if we see circa £40m being pushed back into 2012 that would see around £87m to come back next year less any further early returns this year. Say it ends up at £80m we would then need 84.83% of 80m less let's say early returns next year of the circa £8.4m = £71.6m at 84.83% = almost £61m out of the £80m = 76.25%. And note we only have £30m due back from the smaller loans, so the one very large loan left and the other 7 loans of between £5-10m will have a very significant part to play on us getting our 10% next year or 10% over the next 18months.

It's all getting tighter now as the money due back gets less, both from KSFIOM & KSFUK. Any returns to KSFUK from Kaupthing hf 'Winding Up Committee' could now play a vital part + anything the JLs get from there also.

Good to see we appear to be gelling once more on where we are and what might still happen.

After the Sept figures, I still get the exact same return of 96.300p/£, based on the JLs lower estimate of 84.83% on their loan book and the 78% lower estimate for unsecured creditors on the KSFUK returns to us -but who knows

Gordon 45


To Gordon

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 09/10/2011 - 13:12

Gordon 45,

If the JLs squeeze the last drop out of the pot, they might make 7.4% so that we get a nice round total of 81% (with apologies to those holding USD accounts running approx 8% less).

The large loans (especially the single largest loan) have been a concern of mine for a long time now; we can only hope they eventually come good - even if possibly deferred into future years. Of the JLs original forecast from August 2009, £50.955m still remains to be repaid this year and £47.244m is due in 2012. Unless the single largest loan (which I suspect might exceed £30m) gets repaid anytime soon, then much of the £51m can be expected to roll into 2012+. I note your estimate of £40m with some trepidation! It could exceed £30m, but you never know, fingers crossed for the 'biggy'. After this upcoming dividend I very much agree that we will see a very large slow-down with months passing between dividends. June 2012 for a 5% return concurs with my own estimates. We will probably learn about our next dividend within a few days now...

Ice


I'm glad that you two are able to talk. I held USD!

  • follow_the_tao
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 13/10/2011 - 02:19

Ice, you might now publish your spreadsheets.

Gordon you might respond.

Then we might think about how ALL here might pressure the JLs and the CoI to respond appropriately.

And finally how we may disgrace the IoMG.

Gracias a todo

ftt


Percentage returns - depends who you are

  • ianhkhi
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sat, 08/10/2011 - 15:06

Sorry, but I can't help but bristle at blanket statements such as '80% of our cash back'.

Hey, my US$ aren't coming back at the same percentage rate as your £ sterling.

In fact, I still say that I'm subsidising your payback.

Salt in the wound.


Percentage returns?

  • conned
  • 13/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 09/10/2011 - 16:23

Are any of us in control of this? Lets not turn on each other. One for all etc.,


To ianhkhi

  • Gordon 45
  • 22/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sat, 08/10/2011 - 17:19

Hi Ian,

Sorry if my percentage figures are causing you to 'bristle'.

All I am doing is reporting where I think we are in relation to dividends from the JLs using the figures and rules they have to use. That is what everything we get back is based on.

I can certainly appreciate your views and feelings since you took on your bond/investment in USD or another currency. and how much you are affected, by what has happened to the world situation in Oct 2008 and since then.

Others like myself were caught up in the 'in flight' Habana/Dupreez situation that helped none of us.

I suppose one small gain to you and others may be through the FX gains as they go back out to us all through dividends. But probably no consolation to yourself.

Again no slight or anything else intended, only straight forward comment using the figures , rules & regs that the JLs have to follow.

Yours,

Gordon 45


Thanks Ice

  • sandy
  • 16/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sat, 08/10/2011 - 03:27

Thank you for your explanation, I only wish our so-called JL had the common decency to explain matters so clearly. I thought since he is paid with our money, he would do the decent thing. Obviously I'm wrong!!! These people make me sick!!!


Meanwhile the pound drops like a stone.

  • follow_the_tao
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Fri, 07/10/2011 - 07:53

But then again that's against the dollar which had soared.
And there's inflation.
80% ? Don't collude with the bastards. We're getting something back but it certainly isn't going to be 80%.
Why don't we preface x% with "nominal"?


That makes sense to me. E&Y

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 03/10/2011 - 09:19

That makes sense to me.

E&Y (KSFUK) dividend announced this morning: 5p/£ to be paid on 5 Oct.
http://www.kaupthingsingers.co.uk/media/1048/notice_of_seventh_dividend_...

My guess (and it's only a guess) is that our JLs have been waiting for this and will announce our next dividend shortly and hopefully pay out later this month.


..

  • follow_the_tao
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Fri, 07/10/2011 - 07:54

..


KSFUK Dividends

  • D RAM
  • 13/10/08 01/08/14
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 03/10/2011 - 13:48

I'm of course pleased that E&Y has declared another dividend but I'm rather underwhelmed that yet again it's only 5p. There has been much past criticism on this website of the performance of our JLs but could it be increased attention needs to be paid to E&Y's apparently pedestrian performance ? Maybe Mike Simpson who is on the KSFUK creditor committee could raise this issue and offer some insight ?

Sorry if I'm being a miserable sod but a 63% total payout from KSFUK after 3 years ( compared to 73.6% already from KSFIOM and a further payout imminent ) is hardly setting the heather on fire !

D RAM


To D RAM

  • Gordon 45
  • 22/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 03/10/2011 - 16:13

Hi There D RAM,

I agree when we get notice in July of a payout w/c 3.10.2011 it raises your expectation. The same happened with the last dividend from E&Y (KSFUK).

But having said that, I from way back allowed for 5% from KSFUK every 6 months in my excel tables showing a Summer and a Dec return, that would end in Dec 2013. So E&Y (KSFUK) on target with my estimates. Remember KSFUK had an approx £8bn in assets before it went into Administration we had just under £1bn in KSFIOM. KSFUK similar type of loans in many ways but more complex and lots more subsidiaries with lots more voluntary liquidations, and enforced liquidations and more court cases. Also far larger claim on Kaupthing hf which they will get returns on.

Also, only fair to state that when we had a loan book of £416m in KSFIOM, KSFUK owed us cash through CDs, Repo/collateral shares and unsecured creditors claims. If you take our £416m we have brought back in £286m as at end of August 2011. If you take KSFUK we have received £53.574m from claims on CDs, £121.122m from Repo/collateral shares and, so far, including the 5% due on the 5.10.2011 (based on the £246.1m) £155.043m. When totaled that equals £329.739m. So not a fair comparison to compare the 63p/£ with our 73.6p/£ or hopefully around 80p/£ come later in the month. Remember also that our next dividend is helped by this 5p/£ or £12.305m our JLs get back this week from KSFUK. That's my view anyway, others will certainly not agree, but that is up to them.

One other comparison is: 63% back so far, of the KSFUK lower estimate back of 78%. If you put that in % terms it means that we have received back 80.77% of their lower estimate. If you then compare let's say a return to us from the JLs of around 80% (very shortly), that would mean comparing 80% as against the JLs lower estimate in overall returns to us of 93%. that would mean a return, so far, of 86.02% of the JLs lower estimate of 93% . so not that far apart, in my view anyway. But all comparisons are subjective, depending upon who makes the comparison. Hopefully mine will make you look deeper into your initial thoughts.

Gordon 45


To Gordon 45

  • D RAM
  • 13/10/08 01/08/14
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 04/10/2011 - 03:48

Thanks for your insightful comments. I had hoped for a bit more than 5% from E&Y this time but your remarks put things in context.

All the best,

D RAM


Next Payment

  • WRINKLY
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Wed, 12/10/2011 - 10:04

In response to my question to the bank they replied that they expect to pay around 8p /£ no later than the end of 2011.


Next Payment

  • WRINKLY
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Wed, 12/10/2011 - 10:04

In response to my question to the bank they replied that they expect to pay around 8p /£ no later than the end of 2011.


To WRINKLY

  • Gordon 45
  • 22/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Wed, 12/10/2011 - 19:15

Hi There WRINKLY,

If the JLs wait until end of 2011 and cash still due back in, comes in, to meet the lower estimate of 84.83% (from 2011 only) then we would get higher than 8p/£.

But I do not think they will wait until then. My view was once the £12.305m came in from E&Y (KSFUK) was that we had sufficient to pay out 7.3p/£. So JLs had to receive the cash, get it cleared, compare what they had received in total up to that point (whenever that is in October), allow for future liquidation costs, and unresolved/unclaimed payments, get it all cleared by COI and agree a date for payment. So still think late Oct/Mid Nov for our next payment.

But, thank you for the update, I had heard nothing along those lines. Great to hear and good news. I think we would all take 8p/£ at the end of the year as that would bring the overall total up to 81.6% - we are getting there.

Thanks again for the info,

Gordon 45