• banna
  • 15/10/08 01/03/10
  • a depositor
  • Offline
Posted: Fri, 19/06/2009 - 23:48

I have on previous occasions stated that I was opposed to changing the liquidator and was in favour of retaining PWC.
I have now changed my mind and would like to put forward my reasons for saying that I strongly believe we should appoint a new liquidator.
My reasons are :

1.Two or three weeks ago I re-read the initial petition to liquidate the bank,
presented by Aidan Doherty. In it Doherty proposed Mike Simpson as iquidator.
2. It seems clear that these 2 gentlemen were at least acqaintances before the crisis
blew up.
3.This concerned me in the light of the fact that Mike Simpson steadfastly refused to
provide any real reason for continuing to employ Mr Doherty but continued to do
so.Back scratching seemed at least a possibility.
4. I therefore wrote a personal note to Mike Simpson suggesting that
a. unless he could give an objective reason for continuing to employ Mr Doherty
he should terminate his employment
b. continuing to employ Mr Doherty in those conditions could at the very least
cause his objectivity and professional reputation to be questioned
5. Mike Simpson's reply did not deny their previous acqaintanceship, gave no reason
for continuing to employ Mr Doherty but said that he would continue to do so.
6. Mike Simpson was instructed by the court to assist IOMT and Alix with the SoA if
they requested it. As far as I know he was not told to offer assistance with
EPS 1 & 2.
7.I could therefore understand Simpson having to assist with the SoA but not
8.I now discover that he did assist with EPS and I believe we shall be paying for that
assistance. With no prior approval from us.
9. I also discover that not only did he offer his own and the bank's assistance, but
he also employed THREE lawyers to advise him to do so. Without saying a word
to us us or the court. He knew we were mounting a strong action action against
the SoA and yet he decided to spend our money on lawyers to counter us? I find
that unacceptable.
10. In his defence of the action being brought by DAG to avoid us having to pay
some of these costs he studiously avoids giving us any help at all and in fact he
hides behind the skirts of Doherty and the other Directors. If the Directors are
running the bank what has he been doing? I cannot help wondering
whether one of the reasons for keeping on Mr Doherty has been to avail himself
of this defence.
11. I have previously posted to say that I am extremely concerned by the future
costs of liquidation. DAG now informs us that a replacement liquidator team
would cost 20% to 30% less than PWC. I believe them. We are in this for the long
haul : it could be for at least 6 years or even more. On that time scale 20% to
30% lower costs could equate to millions of pounds saved for distribution to

Personally I have come to the conclusion that this is as they say "a no brainer".

We should seek to appoint a different liquidator.

I note that the HNW posting says they are on balance in favour of retaining PWC. I urge them to re-consider that view. I also ask all my fellow depositors to think carefully about this decision. It could cost us all a greta deal of money.

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Appointment of new liquidator

  • Brabander
  • 15/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sat, 20/06/2009 - 09:06

Banna, I entirely agree with your comments.
I am a member of the HNW group but I am still considering whether I will give them my proxy in view of their support for the retention of the current LP.
I await a formal statement from the DAG team re this.
Time is moving fast, when can we expect this statement?

As at least one meber here

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sat, 20/06/2009 - 13:35

As at least one meber here knows I have started a debate within the HNV Group, but one little thing puzzles me, if there is a 'bid' 30% less where is it and what does it include? Can we see a man-powering chart, a management matrix; evidence of staff available on the IoM to do the job etc etc. I'm not much impressed myself with PWCs performance, but before people start shouting lets realise that the sort of process involved here needs some facts and not hersay. I seem to remember an advocate being appointed on that basis and look at the comments he has made since!

As its been pointed out before a UK based operation may well incur KSF IOM with Corporation tax by the way. So if you want debate and change lets do what we can t be realisic and not just noisy for the sake of it.
So anyone go the details of this 'offer'?

@brabander, @banna: CAN HNW &n DAG get their act ....

  • follow_the_tao
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sat, 20/06/2009 - 11:48


It's Saturday morning, We have till Monday morning to put any new action on the table.

Sorry HNW, sorry DAG, you have 48 hours to agree a working compromise.

Now get on with it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do we have power to change Liquidator??

  • sabi Star
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sat, 20/06/2009 - 09:24

Are we ABLE to change the Liquidator?
How could we do that?
How long would it take?

Cassandra here . . .

  • drglowry
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sat, 20/06/2009 - 00:42

Once again, we need a Liquidator who is looking after OUR interests, not those of the IOMG. Once again, Mr Simpson has shown himself to be the IOMG / DCS man when he sided with the IOMG regarding paying for the SoA fiasco. Let's face it: here we are, 9 months later, no money, back at square 1 yet again, being led around by the nose by our adversaries. No wonder they hold us in such contempt. They have presided over one of the largest bank fraud/robberies in history, are not only easily getting away with it, but are also forcing us to pay the costs. Mr Simpson is the fox in the hen house. He is their man, not ours. We need a Liquidator who is working for our interests.


  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 17/12/2009 - 08:09

I couldn't agree more, hindsight shows that we've been 'managed' most cruelly yet effectively. The IoMG has more affiliations than we can imagine, between them they have kept us from our money for long enough to get their act together. Whatever promises the IoMG were making couldn't be fulfilled in October/November, so it had to force a delay somehow keeping us all 'on board' with the notion of a better deal through the SoA. This creeping delay kept us all distracted with its time-wasting Court appearances, but satisfied the Governments desire to put time between the bank's failure and its aftermath - and gave the IoMG breathing space to avoid paying 100% compensation whilst further avoiding any assistance from big brother HMG - a ploy that seems to be working in their favour. The cost of the SoA was worth it to them to get a nine month delay, even more so if they can get it paid for by the bank (our money). I don't hold any hope for DD Cortlett siding with the DAG on this issue, I'm afraid he will follow form and award against us. Simpson has not been on our side during this, you have only to listen to the taped conference calls to know that is clearly obvious.

Sometimes hindsight concurs with foresight....

The mistake has been.........

  • follow_the_tao
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sat, 20/06/2009 - 05:09

I once told Adrienne (Lieben) that "These people are not nice people. These guys will eat you." She thought I was naieve. Who's naieve now Adrienne?

How long, just how long does it take to lose one's naievity about a 'tax haven in the Irish Sea', and how long to realise that the UK was a bigger one. HMT just slapped their little brother about when things went wrong and the little brother thought of kicking up, the little brother was told to 'Shut up.' I think it was manx-person (my apologies manx-person if my memory isn't serving me well and my apologies for my drunken posting the other day where you had to use a Spanish phrase book to get the drift) that pointed out that the House of Keys was more or less equivalent to a parish council in England.

There have been some good ideas on the site recently. It's time to play. There are some things that can be done on site, and others that need to be 'in-house'. We can play, for example, with analysing the IoM strategy, HMT strategy, psychological profiling of key players, analysis of IoM politics, financial industry profiling, ( for example HSBC are advertising at this very moment about (don't die laughing) "the advantages of offshore banking" (Telegraph). Direct action is appropriate. As for tax evasion, well let's just pick and choose our MP's, I don't see any 'moral highground' argument that really holds water.

Use it! On site. More private thoughts.......we can talk amongst ourselves using email or ......

Backtrack over the statements of IoMG over the DCS, and now it's going to pay out within three months (well possibly- yet more 'caveat emptor' bullshit from IoMG (and by the way 'hello IoM fellow traveller Chris Watson)). Think of Spellman, what interest does he really have in internet gambling (not something that is quite the subject for women and children).
Who are Bell's enemies? How has he lived so long? Was his anger in the House of Keys in front of Cannan theatre or real irritation? Can we not provide support (invester01)What is Obama doing? What is the very pertinent reference to the BBC report provided on site here by (I forget) one of us over Darling's ideas over 'boardroom responsibility' over 'a change to the tripartite means of regulation'. What effect do the EU's ideas on regulation have. What impact does the Swiss authorities thoughts on the 'sizing of banks' have on the aspiration of Barcap? What effects does the King's public spat with Darling mean to us? Let's analyse it. let's kick it about, HOW CAN WE USE IT?

We sweep everything. We move the fight to a new a internet level, why not, isn't this the age of the internet.
We talk to everybody and anybody. We bore them to death. We produce a story for the journos. They want something interesting, famous for 15 minutes, OK. We need drama.

We need to produce a change of mind in the politicos that thought we were a fifteen minute wonder.

As I've said recently: let's grind. Find a friend, and be careful: Let's go hardcore!

David Whelan Name and Shame

  • DJO Gutted
  • 12/10/08 01/06/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sat, 20/06/2009 - 11:21

How about digging up the dirt regarding 72 yr old Whelan "The sole depositor who got his £55 million".
It would very likely expose the names of many behind the scene conspirators in this story and their precious "SEALED DOCUMENTS"

ie. Exista was founded in 2001 by a consortium of Icelandic savings banks as a vehicle to hold shares in Kaupthing Bank. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exista

Re: Whelan/JJB Sports.....http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6736431.stm

It is absolutely certain that we can start a "WALL OF SHAME" once we start tugging on this little string.

These people are part of the "Illuminate" of the "New World Order". In other words the puppeteers who pull the strings and have Carte Blanche in controlling the government leaders.

At this point I would be very happy to give a call to Edge Media on Monday morning, it may lead to a Journalist or film maker that would love to open this can of worms.

"Now I am really pissed off with all the slime balls that have taken our money and are jerking us around."

If you have any suggestions about programmes, topics or events which you would like to see on EMTV please send an email to: suggestions(?)edgemediatv [dot] com

Or write to us:

Edge Media Television
P O Box 177


0845 123 59 49


0845 123 59 47

not guilty

  • manx-person
  • 17/10/08 31/05/09
  • not a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sat, 20/06/2009 - 10:28

It wasn't me who made the post about a parish council.
The Isle of Man is a small country, its a small economy in Gx terms, but the Manx parliament (Tynwald) does have the power to pass laws.

I wouldn't be so quick to criticise others; lieben was on the cttee that coordinated the HNW proxies that helped shape the vote that saw the SoA not approved.

Most of the question posed are easily answered; but I don't know how it advances 'the cause'

Offshore banking Lloyds Bank

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sat, 20/06/2009 - 07:14

Re Offshore Banking

Despite with LLoyds Bank since childhood as have all my family for 4 generations I was refused the option of opening a joint a/c with Lloyds last week because I am an expatriate.
The other joint a/c holders were both long time Lloyds customers and UK residents.

I have therefor taken this up with Lloyds and they agree that this is awkward and suggested I opened an a/c with their International branch in the IOM!

I asked them had they heard of KSF ( they hadnt )

I informed them of Mr Ian Pearsons declaration in Parliament where he stated that there was no legal impediment to a British citizen opening a Uk bank a/c. ( They were unaware of this too)

It was suggested that if enough people write in an complain the situation may be reviewed.

The person to write call is Ms Jane Fowler 01212243469

the head people at Lloyds are Sir Victor Blank and Eric Daniels CEO

25 Gresham St
London EC2V 7HN

cc to the Telegraph

I have also been with Lloyds

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sat, 20/06/2009 - 13:41

I have also been with Lloyds for years in UK, and when I wanted a new account with my wife I got the same response, the IoM !

Lloyds Jt Acct

  • cypheath
  • 01/11/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sat, 20/06/2009 - 11:36

Hi Bellyup,

In the flesh, in the UK last December, my partner and I converted existing single accts in Lloyds & First Direct to joint and opened accts with Yorkshire Bank, with very little problem. I think the biggest hurdle most of us are facing is the remoteness and whether or not you are in their faces. It is so much easier to say "NO" when you aren't there.

Having said that we were also turned down by quite a few (Northern Rock, Abbey, Barclays (onshore)) even when presenting ourselves with paperwork at their desks they just said no if not UK Residents.

Fight them on this one!