What is going on??

  • Lostinspace
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
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Posted: Wed, 25/11/2009 - 14:36

According to Mike Simpson's statement on the bank website, a meeting of the Commitee of Inspection was held on September 5. Minutes of that meeting will be posted when they have been agreed...

What???!

It is now November 25, so why the long wait and deafening silence, or am I missing something here?

To quote Private Eye, I think we should be told......or is it a case of no news = good news?

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Confidentiality clause

  • Brabander
  • 15/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Sun, 29/11/2009 - 21:47

Glen 07,
You state that OUR COI representatives have "legal requirements which means that they can only discuss what is publicly available". This begs the question, who are the arbiters of what is made publicly available?
I assume the Joint Liquidators decide this. If so who controls the Liquidators?

In my innocence I always believed that when a business is placed into liquidation it is the creditors who initiate and largely control this process. In this case we appear to have no influence whatsoever.
The IOM court appears to have never considered the interests of the bulk of the creditors at any stage in this process. Instead they have bent over backwards to satisfy firstly the IOM Government and secondly a few large institutions.
Little wonder therefore that the Liquidators do not consider keeping the depositors informed a very important part of their duties.

Brabander


COI

  • Alastair
  • 10/10/08 30/09/09
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  • Mon, 30/11/2009 - 16:21

The answer Brabander is that our representatives on the COI and the Court control the actions of the Liquidator. If we are not happy with the information that the Liquidator releases our first course is to take this up with the COI members we elected. I believe this is happening.

The COI have the responsibilty to ensure that information is put in the public domain by the Liquidator. Even then there are limits. The liquidator (and I assume the COI members) are not going to agree to put certain information in the public domain however much we ask. An example would be which parties are they considering litigation against, which shares the Bank holds or details of specific loans.


COI

  • Brabander
  • 15/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Mon, 30/11/2009 - 20:20

Alastair,
I do not disagree with your comments but...
The COI must present a united front in their dealings with the Liquidators and for this reason the members of the COI must set aside any remaining disagreements they may have had in the past.
They must be forceful in pushing the Liquidators to publish the information the creditors are entitled to.
This includes an explanation of the discrepancies in the balance sheet.
I understand that there will be issues which will need to remain confidential for legal as well as strategic reasons.
This confidentiality issue does however not apply the publication of regular time tables of expected dividend payments and an explanation of the material discrepancies in the balance sheet.
I am confident that as individuals the COI members elected by us are up to that task but they must present a common purpose when communicating with the Liquidators as the Liquidators appear to adhere to the "need to know" principle.
Brabander


COI Unity - Dividend Forecasts

  • Alastair
  • 10/10/08 30/09/09
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  • Mon, 30/11/2009 - 22:18

No disagreement then Barbander. I'm not aware of any lack of unity within the COI are you? The confidentiality clause does not prevent a regular forecast of dividends (although it might effect the level of detail) but we were told on the 25th November that we would be receiving such a forecast at the time of each dividend or every six months if sooner. This was in the COI Policy Statement link below:

http://www.kaupthingsingers.co.uk/lisalib/getfile.aspx?itemid=20715


@Alastair

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
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  • Sat, 28/11/2009 - 18:27

Going by Knife Edge's recent post I believe that members of the CCI are fully aware of the questions the rank and file posed and are cognizant of the lack of proper response from the liquidators who are allegedly legally bound to look after creditor's interests. Knife Edge has stated that he going after MS next week and I urge him to do this with determination and steadfastness to make it quite clear that we are not going to succumb to the whims and whys of these guys who now have their lives made.


I could not agree more, we

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
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  • Wed, 25/11/2009 - 17:40

I could not agree more, we have waited three weeks now for the minutes to be put on the website and again, they just do not know how much frustration and resentment they cause. We deserve to know what is going on - especially with the money in the UK. If the £185M repo agreement was secured against collateral shares with a 20% 'haircut' (buffer) then why did the last balance sheet drop them to £136M and why is the UK only paying £21M for the difference?

The JLs said they would publish the minutes 'once they'd been agreed', well minutes are minutes aren't they? Who has to agree what? It's very unsatisfactory. We have members of the CCI who cannot report back to the rank and file - paper tigers with no teeth it seems. It wouldn't surprise me if PwC don't want to publish anything in advance of information coming from the SC in case contradictions arise...


COI Minutes and PwC Statement on Cash/Loan Book

  • Alastair
  • 10/10/08 30/09/09
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  • Wed, 25/11/2009 - 19:48

Thanks for the link

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
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  • Wed, 25/11/2009 - 20:20

Thanks for the link Alastair.


Minutes

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
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  • Thu, 26/11/2009 - 09:00

What happpened to the scores of questions that were asked? The minutes are very scant and deprived of real detail in several cases, especially the repo deal and the investigation...


@ Icecrusher - COI Questions

  • Alastair
  • 10/10/08 30/09/09
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  • Sat, 28/11/2009 - 13:30

Icecrusher, to keep complaints specific it might be useful to get the list of questions posted here by Glen07 and line by line either tick off answered or not answered - would you be interested in doing that? That way we can as a group ask the COI reps for specific reasons why particular questions were not addressed. Otherwise we end up with a general PWC bashing (not saying this isn't deserved) but which doesn't actually get us any further.


COI Questions

  • tonycBrisbaneOz
  • 12/10/08 31/05/13
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  • Sun, 29/11/2009 - 07:49

Hi

Here's the link to glen07's list of COI questions.

http://chat.ksfiomdepositors.org/forum-topic/issues-questions-be-raised-...

My query about the level of staffing wasn't discussed.

Regards, TonyC


@COI Questions

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
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  • Sun, 29/11/2009 - 09:25

We who are not members of the COI cannot know what questions were posed at the meeting (or not) because it took the JLs three bloody weeks to agree what they would deign to release to the rank and file (owners of the money). Only those present at the CCOI would know which questions were asked and what the replies were.

The JLs have released only what they want us to know in the minutes, and our members are bound by confidentiality restraints to refrain from telling us what they know. We are not able to pursue these matters ourselves, and even if we try (which some of us have already) we are ignored; the only persons whom the JLs will answer (when they feel like it) are the members of the COI. We are pretty much at the mercy of the proactiveness of our COI members and whether they choose to hound MS and PS is of their choosing.


What question have been answered

  • glen07
  • 21/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Sun, 29/11/2009 - 10:26

I made a list of questions, from those proposed on this site. Why not send these to Knife Ege, who has responded to your questions and ask which of these have been put forward/answered/had mention. He is not the only representative on the CC but he is a start point. Liquidation is a very closed shop affair and thus frustrating. Believe me, this liquidation is no different to any other. Hope this may help.


@glen07

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
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  • Sun, 29/11/2009 - 11:11

I do hope you are not saying that the list of questions were not in fact sent to the committee members prior to the CCI meeting?


CC meeting - list of questions

  • glen07
  • 21/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Sun, 29/11/2009 - 11:28

Yes they were sent to CC committee members. Remember that confidentiality clauses have to be observed by our representatives. Hopefully MS and others will send relevant details sooner rather than later. Please do send any questions for any further CC meeting to this website but please do make them a list and I'll willingly forward them to CC members. I think the earlier these are listed (and subsequently discussed) on the website, the better for all concerned. If you do have questions, please can you itemise them as before I had to discern the questions amongst the rhetoric which doesn't make them quite so precise. No reason why we can not start another list of questions from now on.......However, please do bear in mind the responsibilty of CC reps - not an easy task but they have legal requirements which means they can only discuss what is publicly allowable.