Web site funding

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
  • a depositor
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Posted: Thu, 17/06/2010 - 12:31

Hi all,

I need to raise this topic again. In short I would like somebody else to take over handling of funding and payments for the web-site. I'm talking primarily about hosting costs, another small cost is the domain name, which needs to be renewed before 22-Oct-2010.

Background

We a re hosted by xtrahost.co.uk - their pricing plans are here: http://xtrahost.co.uk/xenvps - we are on the third level - 25 pounds per month plus VAT. We don't really need that much power any more (though we used to) and so could downgrade, probably to the minimum plan. However, that might cause things to start misbehaving, because the server configuration is currently tuned to expect a 1.5GB of memory. Retuning would require tweaking and testing, possibly resulting in downtime and instability for a period of time. So basically, not a good idea unless critical for cost reasons.

Purely cost-wise, the site could be hosted elsewhere for 5 pounds per month (shared hosting) but that's really not a good idea either - migration would be considerable work, things would break, and there are potentially major privacy/security issues with shared hosting compared with VPS hosting. So, forget that option.

Current funding situation

The total of IT donations (subscriptions, whatever you want to call them) during the three months March-May was 75.67 after PayPal fees. I have just paid the quarters' invoice of 88.13 (75 plus VAT) - I am not in a position to be able to reclaim the VAT. This takes us up to 12-August, when another invoice will be generated and need paying shortly afterwards.

I don't have systems in place in track payments other than what PayPal provides. I use my PayPal account for other purposes, so have to go searching for related transactions, time consuming and less than ideal.

I don't know how many "active" members we have any more. I'd guess there are hundreds out there still receiving automated emails and reading the site from time to time, but those who post are relatively few, as we know. I have never restricted access to the site based on whether any "subscription" was made or not, but it could be done if needed.

Domain name

The domain name is cheap - around 10 pounds per year - but it might be a good idea to renew now, for as long a period as we think needed (5 years max.) Go to www.bulkregister.com to check prices, please allow for PayPal fees when making calculations.

Request

I would like someone else to handle collection of donations, and paying the hosting invoice. It's not a lot of work, obviously, more about being set up to track things properly. The invoice comes in as a PDF via email, and I could set things up for this to go to a different email address. Reclaiming the VAT might be an option for someone. A better idea might be to pre-pay a year or so of hosting, and so avoid hassle. If anyone wants to look into this, please deal with xtrahost.co.uk directly - email accounts(?)xtrahost [dot] co [dot] uk

Message me for any further info required - I don't read the site on a regular basis any more. All I really need to know is an email address to forward subsequent invoices to.

Just as a reminder, unless the final total payback exceeds 75%, I no longer have any financial interest with the DAG. I do have other interests - we all got screwed and I would very much like to see that sorted out. But, in the meantime I have to get on with my life. If and when this site gets shut down, I'll do my best to make sure it's handled properly (data erased, or perhaps guarded elsewhere for posterity, but that's another decision for the group to make at such time.)

All the best, to everyone.

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Funding

  • brennajm
  • 22/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sat, 12/02/2011 - 05:40

I get e-mails every day from people nagging about paying for keeping the wesite open. I have paid and I've paid every time I've been asked but I didn't think it was necessary to advertise the fact. I am sure I am not the only one! I've always contributed a minimum of 50GBP and more usually 100+GBP. Of course, I do want to get all my money back and I really do appreciate all the work people are doing but isn't it always the way that only a few people will do the work and pay the money while the rest will sit back on their laurels and take, take, take.


FUNDING

  • cottesmore
  • 21/10/08 16/07/12
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Fri, 11/02/2011 - 17:59

Why have so many of you still not made any contributions for this web site.DO IT NOW!!


Funding

  • Afam
  • 02/02/09 28/05/13
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 13/02/2011 - 14:53

I have not visited the web site for around a year, as I have been focused on my wife's 6 months chemotherapy and post treatment recovery. It is good to see that the website is still operating and I hope to get up-to-date with the news in the next few weeks. I have just sent a contribution for a £100 - sorry for the delay. Many thanks for your hard work, it is really appreciated.


Funding

  • Julie
  • 03/12/08 14/07/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Fri, 11/02/2011 - 19:32

If there are 4,000 people waiting for 100% return you might well be asking, it is a disgrace!!


Web funding

  • clodhopper
  • 18/01/09 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 09/02/2011 - 17:37

Hi

Have just tried to make a payment on the funding links but no joy - is there another way please?


clodhopper

  • cottesmore
  • 21/10/08 16/07/12
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 09/02/2011 - 18:35

Do you have a paypal account? The link works well if you do


payments for funding

  • clodhopper
  • 18/01/09 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 11/02/2011 - 20:19

Hi Cottesomore

No I do not have a paypal account and as I do not have any bank/credit cards with a UK address I find difficulty in making payments unless by the old fashioned cheque method! Any suggestions would be helpful please.

Thanks for a great service ng


SUPPORT ng

  • Pilgrim
  • 07/11/08 24/06/14
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 08/02/2011 - 09:44

Hi ng,
Today sent £100 via pay pal towards the IT FUND and am willing to do whatever to keep the web active for as long as it takes, or until members advise othwerwise

Like Tony C @ Brisbane I too have paid my KSFIOMDEPOSITORS. org IT and web support IT money over the last 2 years albeit in 2 separate advance yearly lump sums. (Cottesmore please add the silent contributions to the 16). Then not hearing anything more thought that everything was OK for a year. Its now possible that there may be a communication problem as ng clearly needs support to build up a fund to forward cover the 3 years sugested. Once the figures are known i.e. how much more is required - like others I am willing to contribute further to build up the fund. To atchieve this goal suggest more info be posted asap.

My vote is not to "bar" others from the sites. All circumstances are not known and, who can judge. It also risks division, which feeds those against justice for all. We are all in this together both the winners and the morally
corrupt and losing IOM gvmnt.

I also unwaveringly support and contribute to the other DAG website. This situation continues to be no game for me or my family.

Thank you to all who have emerged from this mess as true leaders Together we stand.. Kind Regards Pilgim.


IT/SITE FUNDING

  • cottesmore
  • 21/10/08 16/07/12
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 06/02/2011 - 13:25

To date there has only been about 16 people who have contributed money to maintaining this web site.I think that is extremely poor and proves yet again,that it is left to the same few.I really find it difficult to believe that those of us waiting for the rest of our money from KSF, can't afford a few pounds to keep the site well funded as it is a life line for so many.Do you not feel any guilt what so ever? Just get on with it and put your details forward when you have done so.I will not leave this subject alone.You know who you are.Just do something to help, instead of leaving to others, ALL THE TIME!!


Website Funding

  • tonycBrisbaneOz
  • 12/10/08 31/05/13
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 07/02/2011 - 10:54

Hi,

I made a contribution last month and last year (5 pounds per month as was suggested at the time).

Regards, TonyC


Web funding

  • Lostinspace
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 07/02/2011 - 04:48

Have just sent 50.00 pounds via Paypal to help keep this - absolutely vital - website going.

One point though - by the donate button, there is is message:

"Funding will go towards ongoing maintenance, support and upgrading of the two DAG web-sites, plus provision of IT help to DAG members activities to support DAG activities."

What two DAG sites is that? I only ever access this one....where is the other one????


Other site

  • Tricky Dicky
  • 24/10/08 30/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 07/02/2011 - 11:55

Lostinspace

This posting is for information only, and not as a base to start any controversy

The other website is here at: http://www.ksfiomdag.com/

As far as I am aware it is only funded by those who are members and does not draw any funds from this website.
The difference is that (http://www.ksfiomdag.com/) has a members only area where discussions can take place and update information presented that is only available to registered members, and to be a registered member, proof is required that you are a depositor or bondholder of KSFIOM, and of course abide by the conditions of membership.
This site, as good as it is, is open for anyone at all to post and read comments etc.


Other Site

  • Lostinspace
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 07/02/2011 - 12:07

Tricky Dicky,

Thanks, I don't want to start any controversy, either.

This site is a Godsend and I am quite happy to chip in to keep it going, I was just a bit curious as to why the note said donations would cover two sites - ie including the one I've never registered for and never seen.

If as you say that other site doesn't draw any funds from this site, then surely that note by the donate button needs to be ammended?

Anyway, at the end of the day, we are all in this together, hoping to get as much of our money back as possible, so what the hell etc....


@Lostinspace - re Other site

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 07/02/2011 - 14:16

Lostinspace,

I think there may be a double misunderstanding. While I agree it's unclear, I assume the two sites referred to are the 'chat and 'public' sites housed at ksfiomdepositors.org - and not the ksfomdag.com site, which indeed is not funded from the monies collected here. While the old 'public' site is apparently no longer updated, various older documents may still be consulted there and it is thus effectively maintained.

I have no wish either to start any controversy. I am however surprised to discover that you have never even seen the 'other' site (www.ksfiomdag.com). Much of it is on open access and is regularly updated with news and documents which you might find of interest even if you choose not to register there. If, on the other hand, you chose to register, you will be made welcome! You might even wish to consider contributing to the fighting fund which, apart from paying (minimally) for the basic maintenance of that site, is essentially being used in the ongoing fight for 100% return to all depositors, notably by developing our proposal for the setting up of a loan trust fund.


funding

  • tsunamivictim
  • 11/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 06/02/2011 - 14:31

I sent something but didnt realise we had to post on the site to say so! L,ke all of us, we owe a huge vote of Thanks to NG>


cash sent

  • sunny1
  • 16/10/08 30/05/14
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 06/02/2011 - 14:00

I just sent £50 by PayPal to an old address I had in my PayPal system: it(?)ksfiomdepositors [dot] org

Let me know if it gets to the right place, and I'll top it up to £100 forthwith.

Sunny1


Funding

  • Julie
  • 03/12/08 14/07/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 06/02/2011 - 13:47

Everyone has had 61% back so there is no excuse. Is it not possible to blank them out I bet they would pay up then?


Funding

  • AMG56
  • 13/10/08 29/05/14
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 03/02/2011 - 12:22

Just donated £100 via debit card. Many thanks to all. Keep up the good work.


Web site funding

  • barrona
  • 17/11/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 03/02/2011 - 12:38

Just donated 30.00 pounds.


SITE FUNDING

  • mikepapa
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 02/02/2011 - 20:45

Hi Ng,

Just sent £50 via paypal for all your effort - please keep up the good work.

Kind regards,

mikepapa


NG great work

  • Pilgrim
  • 07/11/08 24/06/14
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 31/01/2011 - 12:23

Hi Ng

This web and the team work that it built is one of the only good things to come out of this Shameless dark IOM gvmnt and legal affair.( Another example is the good Dag team ).

My previous quarterly contributions were paid up in advance and due to expire on 14/7/11. However the WEB must be properly funded. My contribution to the 3 years advance funding will follow in a few days and I will post and hopefully others contributions can follow..

Thank you for the great work, SIR,
Kind regards, from Pilgrim and family.

To the IOM Egyptian gvmnt - a friend is not just for Xmas!!.


I have just sent £50 paypal,

  • philus
  • 15/10/08 n/a (free)
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sat, 29/01/2011 - 10:13

I have just sent £50 paypal, thnk you for all your hard work.


IT Web fund

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 28/01/2011 - 14:22

Thanks for all your hard work Andy; PayPal donation from Ice & Yorky.


IT donation

  • shafted
  • 10/10/08 12/12/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 27/01/2011 - 20:46

I have just sent £50.00

Thank you very much for your major contribution to us retaining our sanity over the last few years, this site has been fantastic .


Funding for IT

  • rhbbpd
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 27/01/2011 - 08:39

I have just sent £50 via paypal. Thank you NG for all the work over the last couple of years.

Roz


Web site funding

  • simonc
  • 14/10/08 01/06/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Thu, 27/01/2011 - 07:32

I have just donated GBP100 to the cause on behalf of myself and Ian Hay


Web site funding

  • jmf
  • 16/10/08 31/10/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 27/01/2011 - 15:33

Web site funding sent today. Thanks ng for your invaluable care of this site.


Further update on funding

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 26/01/2011 - 12:46

More donations have come in over the past few days... once they seem to have ground to a halt, I'll report the figures. There will certainly be enough to pay up the current hosting and domain name costs for a significant period (about 18 months at current level of contribution I think.) But, please keep the donations coming in - three years would seem to me like a good target.

That said, I still think that moving to a managed hosting provider (Drupal specialist) would be a sensible plan. Yesterday I spoke in detail with Chris at Ixis and as a result have now given them a user account on here. The idea is they will propose what they can offer us, and at what price. The main advantages of managed hosting is increased security and reliability. Additional possibilities are some level of technical support, but all at a price, obviously.


Donation to IT funding

  • manxdove
  • 12/10/08 30/11/09
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 26/01/2011 - 20:51

Sorry for delay in sending my donation - I have had no internet access. Heartfelt thanks for all your work on our behalf.


FUNDS

  • cottesmore
  • 21/10/08 16/07/12
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 26/01/2011 - 17:22

Right then everyone.You have read what ng has put forward,so those who havent sent any dosh had really ought to get on with it.We are the group with the most money at stake and who have had the most back.Please stop leaving this to the same old people yet again.Get your wallets and purses out and send it through the funding link at the top left hand side of this site.Come on don't let me down.Please put a comment up when you have sent some cash.Many thanks in anticipation of your urgent attention.
I will keep 'harping on' until you all do this.
Kind Regards,
Mark
P.S please send contribution, even if you are just a visitor.Every little really helps.


Update on funding

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 24/01/2011 - 09:45

Over the past few days, 300 GBP gross (287.70 after PayPal fees) has come in. I've paid the invoice that was outstanding, and there's clearly sufficient left for the next six months at least. I would still like to get to the point where we prepay the hosting and domain for a couple of years or more, so that I can just forget about this administrative chore! Alternatively, somebody please come forwards to offer to handle collection of donations and and payment of invoices.


funding

  • warthog
  • 08/11/08 06/06/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 25/01/2011 - 15:34

I have sent you £100 through my daughter in UK as Pay Pal just does not work for me!


DONATION

  • everhopeful
  • 11/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 25/01/2011 - 05:51

Dear Ng,
I contributed GBP100 yesterday via PayPal and also sent you an e-mail. Hope that helps and thank you for your great efforts!
James Smillie


Still need a solution, now URGENT

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 23/01/2011 - 11:19

We still need a solution for this, now urgent. A quick recap (please also read my original post above) ...

  • Hosting ksfioimdepositors sites (www and chat) costs GPB 75 per month plus VAT.
  • Additional costs of approx GBP 10 per year for maintaining the domain name.
  • Cheaper options for hosting exist, but probably not viable due to the time and cost of migration.
  • The "subscriptions" idea has never worked. We could enforce subscriptions (disable access to the site for those who have not paid a subscription) but I originally committed to members that that would never happen. In any case it would be significant work for me setting it up.
  • Arguably these sites are no longer needed, as www.ksfiomdag.com is available. Whether that is indeed the case or not is DAG members' collective decision.

Suggestion

  • Establish a sensible time period for which sites are required (3-5 years??)
  • Obtain sufficient contributions (somehow!) from interested DAG members to cover that period.
  • Pay up relevant providers for the entire period (perhaps negotiate a small discount.)
  • Optionally, disable or limit site access for non-contributors.

A reminder - my own deposit in KSF was such that unless/until return exceeds around 70%, I have no financial interest in the DAG sites, sorry. Yes, I'd still like to help, see justice be done, and maintain contact with all the great people I've "met" through the DAG, etc. but I don't want to be responsible for funding the sites. I'm only talking about direct costs (hosting and domain) - there would be other costs if anything went wrong (e.g. recovering database corruption due to a server crash) - fingers crossed, nothing like that will ever happen.

Urgency

  • No contributions at all have been received since 23-Aug-10.
  • There is an outstanding invoice from xtrahost dated 12-Nov-10, GBP 75+VAT, covering Nov-Jan. I was hoping that contributions would be received that I would use to pay it, that has not happened. To date I've not received reminders from them, but sooner or later that will happen, and eventually they will probably just switch off the site. In that event it would simply disappear and potentially be irrecoverable (recoverability dependent on availability of suitable backups, and for how long xtrahost would maintain our data on their servers.)

If anybody would like to talk to me (skype/phone) about this, please use the contact form at www.netgenius.co.uk/contact - I will probably read replies posted here, but may not.

Finally, I good idea might be to move the site to a "Managed hosting" provider such as [Ixis](e.g. http://www.ixis.co.uk/drupal/hosting) - Our site is not managed, other than what I can do in the time I contribute. If anybody would like to investigate that option, please do so - talk to Ixis or other providers.

Action needed

Somebody please get this sorted! Maybe run a poll to find out how many people would contribute and how much. Maybe run a poll on whether the site should be moved elsewhere (e.g. to cheap hosting, paying the migration costs.) I'm able to email all registered members, so put together a suitable email (with links to such a poll perhaps) and send it to me for distribution.

If my time is required (e.g. for migration or providing technical assistance to some chosen new provider) I'll provide up one hour as a contribution to the DAG, and offer on any further time a 30% discount from my standard rates Please note that I have virtually zero availability (business hours) until at least the end of February. Reminder, you can contact me via www.netgenius.co.uk/contact

My very best regards to everyone.


Outstanding invoice now sorted

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 23/01/2011 - 12:07

One of our members has just sent a 100 pounds contribution, so thanks for that (I don't know if he/she wants to be named here.) So, I will go and pay the outstanding invoice now, and that removed the immediate urgency. However, the rest of my post about my suggestion for paying up several years and/or moving to managed hosting etc is still relevant.


ng

  • cottesmore
  • 21/10/08 16/07/12
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 23/01/2011 - 11:53

Please send the link to pay and i will cover that outstanding invoice.Others will send money (hopefully)especially since they have had a nice chunk back now.We all need this site.I for one dont like the other site as the, 'chat,' facility is very poor!
Regards Mark


Invoice paid

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 23/01/2011 - 12:24

Sorry Mark, hadn't read your comment when I posted mine - so thanks again, and it seems you do want to be named :) To confirm, the outstanding invoice is now paid. Next invoice will be around 12-Feb. I can arrange for these invoices to be send (by email) elsewhere, and probably have the account name changed so that VAT element could potentially be recovered.


CASH

  • cottesmore
  • 21/10/08 16/07/12
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 23/01/2011 - 12:10

Hi again ng,
Forget sending the link,i found it and have sent you a £100.00 pound to cover some costs.I hope that others follow my lead immediately.As you are aware, it always falls to the same people to send money! Anyone reading this should send money NOW not later.The link is at the top of the page on the left hand side under the name, FUNDING. Not rocket science, even for a non computer person like me! So everyone,DO IT RIGHT NOW!! or we lose it.


Ok,thanks for letting us

  • cottesmore
  • 21/10/08 16/07/12
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 17/06/2010 - 21:38

Ok,thanks for letting us know.
Why don't we all send you some dough to keep it going.
I for one, need this web site.
If you want to add some money to cover your time then feel free.
We must keep the site going.Even if i have to pay more than the others.
Best wishes,
Mark


Clarification

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 18/06/2010 - 09:51

Hi cottesmore,

I spend very little time working on the site these days, basically just checking that it's working from time to time. Ok, if something did go wrong, that might change, but right now it's not an issue.

To clarify, what I'm asking for is for somebody else to collect donations (or subscriptions) - i.e. have them paid to a different PayPal account, not mine. Then pay the hosting invoice. This way I don't have to worry about that stuff. This request was partly triggered by the fact that I forgot to pay the last invoice (until the reminder came through.) Had I not been around, on holiday etc, at that point, then xtrahost might have shut us down due to non-payment, definitely not what's wanted! So, if someone else takes over, then assuming no technical problems on the site, it will live forever.

As a reminder stef has helped out from time to time with technical issues, and helped extensively in the early days. He is not a depositor, but an IOM resident.


DAG

  • cottesmore
  • 21/10/08 16/07/12
  • a depositor
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  • Sat, 19/06/2010 - 07:47

Hi ng,
Hope you are well.
Cant DAG manage this for us all?
That way all donations, be it legal or IT, could be then be combined and administered at one source.


DAG

  • cottesmore
  • 21/10/08 16/07/12
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 23/01/2011 - 12:15

Why hasn't this been actioned???


DAG

  • tonycBrisbaneOz
  • 12/10/08 31/05/13
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 24/01/2011 - 07:40

Hi cottesmore,

From memory there was a discussion and a poll about closing this site down and just having the "official" DAG one.

For starters see

http://chat.ksfiomdepositors.org/poll/should-ksfiomdepositorsorg-sites-b...

Regards, TonyC


Thanks - ng

  • Lostinspace
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 18/06/2010 - 03:42

As ever, ng, you've done a fantastic job on this site, in my estimation.

Some easy to follow Pay Pal link to help with funding would be good. I know I've contributed before but can't remember now how and where....


Follow the "Funding" link at

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 18/06/2010 - 10:30

Follow the "Funding" link at top left of the page (on all pages). There's also a more direct link at the end of the welcome page (the page you see if you go to just http://chat.ksfiomdepositors.org) - that one takes you to: http://www.ksfiomdepositors.org/node/2151

BUT, don't all rush! The idea now is to send this elsewhere, whoever wants to take responsibility for management and payment of hosting invoices.


pay pal address

  • tsunamivictim
  • 11/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 18/06/2010 - 03:41

I too would like to keep this site going. Its a life line of information for those of us scattered around the world.
Ng has been a star working so hard to keep us informed and I am happy to put something in the kitty if that will help out.
Is there a Pay Pal address we can use to donate?


Ng

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Mon, 24/01/2011 - 09:52

Yes a GREAT BIG THANKS to Ng who has been with us for the Long haul this site has been invaluable and has helped us keep a log of the News as it breaks..

Please let me know if there is a Paypal account for Funding I can only offer a Small some but I guess its better than nothing!

Note the News TODAY from the IOM and the Tynwald Report Debate which has been Postponed...

Once again thanks for keeping the wheels turning for us all!

Aurora


Aurora

  • cottesmore
  • 21/10/08 16/07/12
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 24/01/2011 - 19:45

If you go to the top left hand side,it says, FUNDING! You can pay by paypal.
Every one should now put money forward to keep this site going.For gods sake everyone,dont keep leaving it to the same few people!!!


Funding

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Mon, 24/01/2011 - 20:10

Thanks I will give as much as I can..

If everyone put a donation of £20.00 in the kitty it would soon stack up!

OK!

Aurora


Funging

  • Julie
  • 03/12/08 14/07/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 25/01/2011 - 12:01

Hi

Sent 45GBP yesterday vie paypal.