We ARE represented at KSFUK

  • Anonymous
  • unspecified
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Posted: Fri, 05/12/2008 - 17:59

I spoke to a lady at KSFIOM today who called me back in reply to an email I sent to Mike Simpson earlier in the week. She confirmed the following:

1) We ARE represented on the KSFUK creditor committee (I have seen postings suggesting otherwise) through PwC (who have now been appointed as joint liquidators provisional to KSFIOM). In fact it's better than just sitting on the creditor committee as there is a direct channel of communication now between KSFIOM and KSFUK. This doesn't give us our money back yet but I thought worth posting this as it's generally good news.

2) She confirmed there will be an update on the KSFIOM website over the weekend regarding more details around the 550m held by KSFUK. She wasn't able to tell me what the news was but said there would be 'an update'. Fingers crossed.

For all the criticism about Simpson's team posted here I must say I'm pleased with how my queries were handled. She called a) wihtin 48 hours of my email and b) answered all my questions professionally.

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Writing to FSCS/Treasury asking them to represent us on KSFUK ?

  • Anonymous
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  • Thu, 11/12/2008 - 12:17

I have been wondering if there would be any point in someone drafting a good letter for us all to adapt and send to FSCS/Treasury asking them to represent us on KSFUK creditors' committee?
We are the second largest creditors - but the FSCS it seems used their vote to place other parties on the committee instead of us. Can we ask them why they did that? Do they want to discriminate against us?
. We could point out we were left off the committee and so need representation on it - BY THEM.
We also do not know why UK govt. did not appear to represent the IOM in negotiations with Iceland regarding the IMF loan - as we understood it should do. Can they explain that?
Even if the KSFUK creditors' committee is not very important - writing to the Treasury en masse about anything will keep us in their mind - so we don't just appear fade quietly away - squashed by their great power.
Another thing - someone posted yesterday that Landsbanki (Guernsey) are engaging a firm to lobby for them in UK - MPs and others. Is that an idea for us? (Are they cheaper than lawyers?!)


PWC UPDATE

  • Anonymous
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  • Tue, 09/12/2008 - 13:18

http://www.kaupthingsingers.co.uk/Pages/4035

Hi everyone. Nothing particularly interesting to note, but thought I'd point out there's a new update from PWC.

5 December 2008

General Matters
In this update I set out a report on the creditors meeting convened by the Administrators of Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander Limited (“Kaupthing UK”), issuing Statements as at 9 October 2008 and actions currently being taken re Edge accounts and other online information.

A PDF copy of the Administrators Proposals is available here.

Meeting to consider the Administrators Proposals in respect of Kaupthing UK A meeting of creditors of Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander Limited (in Administration) (“Kaupthing UK”) was held on Monday, 1 December 2008 at 11am at Café Royal, 68 Regent Street, London. The meeting was attended by the Joint Liquidator Provisionally on behalf of KSFIOM.

The purpose of the meeting was to consider the proposals of the Administrators of Kaupthing UK and to decide upon the formation of a Creditors Committee. The Administrators read from the statement of proposals to creditors which had been circulated with the notice of the meeting.

With regard to dividend prospects the Administrators indicated it was too early to give a realistic estimate or range but that they will be discussing this with the duly appointed Creditors’ Committee. It was indicated that the intention was to keep creditors informed in respect of any progress in this area and to pay an interim dividend as soon as was felt possible.

With regard to the directors Statement of Affairs, the directors of Kaupthing UK had obtained an extension in respect of the filing deadline but it was anticipated it would be filed shortly. The Administrators advised that it was likely an order would be sought from the Court under section 231 of the Insolvency Act 1986 limiting disclosure for commercial and other reasons. It was envisaged that a summary Statement of Affairs would be made available to creditors.

The Administrators had applied to Court for dispensation to release a list of creditors on the grounds it would be prejudicial to the interests of creditors for list of creditors names, addresses and amounts due to be released. The Court had duly granted an order on 13 November 2008. It was also confirmed that by Court order the documents on the Court file relating to the appointment of the Administrators were sealed and not open for inspection.

Mr Brazzill referred to the consolidated and draft unaudited balance sheet as at 7 October 2008 included in the proposals. He indicated that the position with regard to £981m of other liabilities was likely to change substantially as part of ongoing reconciliation work. He also indicated that it was believed that Kaupthing h.f. was a net debtor of the company but that work was ongoing to establish the position. It was stressed that many areas of the balance sheet were affected by the impact of set off which had the potential to change the position quite materially. It was confirmed that as at 26 November 2008, approximately £270m, €55m and US$130m was held in cash by the Administrators and that a Receipts and Payments account would be circulated in due course.

The Administrators advised that they were not in a position to calculate the total level of creditors given the substantial uncertainties relating to the balance sheet. It was confirmed that claims totalling approximately £4.7bn had been submitted for voting purposes at the meeting, including an estimated claim for £3.5bn submitted by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme (“FSCS”). It was stressed that the FSCS will stand in the shoes of depositors it pays out, i.e. as an unsecured creditor.

So as to protect the position of KSFIOM we have stated our desire to be a member of the Creditors Committee. A Committee is made up of 3 to 5 creditor members and creditors are elected by votes by value of claim. Over 40 creditors put their name forward for membership of the Committee and whilst a committee was formed KSFIOM had insufficient votes to be appointed as a member.

It was subsequently confirmed that the following had been voted onto the Creditors’ Committee:-

Financial Services Compensation Scheme
Cats Protection
Transport for London
Trustees for the Singer & Friedlander Pension Scheme Peterborough City Council

Edge and online Accounts
We are currently working to restore the Edge and online accounts in a “READ ONLY” format so that customers can view their account information online, for a temporary period. The Bank is not able to complete this process in-house due to the Information Technology system restraints.

We will be sending an email to all Edge account holders once the system has been activated and will post an update on the website. Once the system is live it will be held open until the end of February 2009.

Statements
September statements were issued to customers however the Bank does not produce statements for Fixed Term Bonds, Online accounts or Edge accounts. We are planning to send statements to customers as at 9 October 2008.

The objective of the statements is to provide customers with the balance of the funds deposited with the Bank. As stated the Bank’s IT system does not allow the production for statements relating to fixed term bonds.

For information purposes only and so as to reflect the claims of depositors as at the 9 October 2008 the Banks system will show early maturity of fixed term deposits as at 9 October 2008. The Capital and interest accrued to date in respect of these fixed term deals will then be credited to each customer’s account. Many Customers received a statement for these accounts as at 30 September 2008 which showed a Nil balance. The Statements as at 9 October 2008 will show the receipt of these funds into their account. In the minority of cases where the deal was set up from funds from another Bank and no other KSFIOM account exists then a new account will be credited to show the balance of the fixed term deal. This has been done purely for presentational purposes to enable these balances to be included on statements and does not affect deposit terms.

We hope to issue statements to customers before the Christmas postal deadlines.

Interim Payments
The Isle of Man Treasury is investigating the possibility of making an interim payment to depositors in the Bank. We continue to provide information and assistance to them whilst they continue to investigate whether this can be achieved.

Contacts
As previously, the best way to make contact is to write to the bank or to email branch(?)kaupthing [dot] com. If you need to telephone the bank, please use the main switchboard number +44 1624 699222.


Confirmation that the FSCS Blocked us

  • Anonymous
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  • Tue, 09/12/2008 - 13:46

Well we have what we asked for from PWC. They confirm they were out voted for the Creditor Committee of KSFUK despite being the second largest creditor.

With 4.7bln votes (3.5bln for the FSCS, 600mln KSFIOM and 600mln all the rest) the only way I can see the FSCS and 4 others creditors to have been elected before we were is for the FSCS to have spilt its vote 5 ways. If we wanted any further evidence of the lengths the UK Gov't will go to block our access to information and an equal seat at the table this is it.

Where from here? Any suggestions - bombard the FSCS and their master the Treasury, expose them in the media, questions to the TSC who are their watchdog, parlimentary questions - all seems a bit tame.

Certainly I think John Mcfall needs to hear about this today from all of us.


This is smelling nastier and

  • Anonymous
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  • Tue, 09/12/2008 - 14:05

This is smelling nastier and nastier as each day passes. So KSF IOM, as the 2nd largest creditor, is having to in effect contribute to the fees for the UK administrators, yet they have their hands tied behind their backs because they are being explcitely directed in what they can and cant do by the treasury.


Membership renewal - Flat Earth Society

  • Anonymous
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  • Mon, 08/12/2008 - 10:59

What has hapenned to the "update on the £550 million over the weekend". Could "thepond" please re-call this helpful lady at Kaupthing and find out, and whilst he is at it perhaps he could ask her to send me a membership application form for the flat earth society.


You can join the Flat Earth

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 09/12/2008 - 12:07

You can join the Flat Earth Society here -
http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm

Actually, some very funny stuff on that site, worth a look http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm


on it

  • Anonymous
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  • Mon, 08/12/2008 - 21:50

Believe me, I AM following up on this. Don't like being lied to either. On the other hand, something is happening on these 550k. Will keep you guys posted.


Understand

  • Anonymous
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  • Tue, 09/12/2008 - 12:56

I can understand you must be as disappointed as the rest of us - Did this nice lady say Which Weekend in particular??
She may have a different diary to us !!


thepond

  • Anonymous
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  • Tue, 09/12/2008 - 10:32

did you manage to get an answer from the bank? (is it still a bank when it has no banking licence.....i'll call it a blank!) this is the same woman who asked me why i was trying to move money out of the 'blank' on the 6th oct as they were 'rock solid'!!!......


Same old PWC

  • Anonymous
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  • Mon, 08/12/2008 - 12:42

Despite the embarrassment of having been shown to have mis-led the IOM court regarding communication with depositors/potential creditors via the web site there has been nothing posted since 27th Nov (11 Days). During that time there was the E&Y meeting for KSFUK which in itself prompted several questions requiring PWC feedback.

Did anything come of the suggestion for PWC to hold a weekly conferernce call with a representative of DAG?

Can we go to the IOM Court to press for improved communication both in frequency and content?


Weekly call

  • Anonymous
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  • Tue, 09/12/2008 - 12:54

Nothing back. I spoke to someone at KSFIOM and they said that the mail had been forwarded to Mike Simpson. I'll give them another day or so then I'll get to him directly.


I think I know this lady. I

  • Anonymous
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  • Sat, 06/12/2008 - 01:50

I think I know this lady. I supsect she was the one who told me:-

  1. The bank is 100% safe otherwise why would I have my own money in it.
  2. There is a parental gaurantee
  3. The IOM governmant is competent
  4. Your transfer will be processed tomorrow
  5. Thank you for banking with us.
  6. No this is not an Indian call center, although you would probably get a more honest answer out of them.

This lady must be very busy. I assume she will find something substantial in her FSC (Festive Stocking..........I'm afraind I cannot think of a word beginning with C that means pound of flesh) .


I think I know her too...

  • Anonymous
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  • Mon, 08/12/2008 - 13:55

She told us exactly the same thing, 2 weeks before the bank folder!!!! Who is this woman?


Reply from BBC - Politics Show 23/11/2008

  • Anonymous
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  • Mon, 08/12/2008 - 14:03

Question:-

I was heartened to see the KSF(IOM) Ltd exposure in your programme, however, it would seem that all that was shown was the plight of one of the depositors. This is welcome but it would have been proper for a proper excision of how the matter arose, especially the UK Government's culpability in the debacle. I am afraid your programme has shown yet again that whilst you claim to be independent from the grasp of the executive in reality this is not true; more a case of pandering to the Government especially with the negative coverage the service has been getting of late.

Answer:-

Thanks for your e-mail regarding 'The Politics Show' broadcast on 23 November.

I understand you appreciated the report on Kaupthing, Singer and Friedlander but note you felt it failed to properly establish the causes of the bank's situation and only looked at it from the perspective of one of its depositors.

BBC News not only has a duty to provide the bare facts of a story, but to provide context and analysis and I regret you've been disappointed on this occasion.

'The Politics Show' seeks to provide forums for debate and give full opportunity for all viewpoints to be heard across a huge range of subject matter. Every effort is made to ensure that a range of views is represented and tested over a reasonable period, but it is not always possible or practical to reflect all the different opinions on a subject within individual programmes.

Editors are charged to ensure that over a reasonable period they reflect the range of significant views, opinions and trends in their subject area. Senior editorial staff, the Board of Management and the BBC Trust keep a close watch on programmes to ensure that standards of impartiality are maintained.

We've tried to ensure our coverage concerning KSF has been fair and appropriate across our programming and provided our audience with enough information and facts so they can come to their own conclusions. This has also been covered on the BBC News website, some examples of reports can be found at the following links:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/isle_of_man/7751959.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7746695.stm

Please be assured that your comments have been included in our audience log. This is circulated widely within the BBC and made available to many BBC staff, including members of the BBC Executive Board, channel controllers and other senior managers.

The audience logs are seen as important documents that can help shape decisions about future programming and content. The logs are also published on the BBC's intranet site, so are available for all BBC staff to view.

Thanks again for taking the time to contact us with the strength of your concerns.

Regards

Alec Mackenzie
BBC Complaints


This puzzles me. The person

  • Anonymous
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  • Fri, 05/12/2008 - 19:25

This puzzles me.

  1. The person who was there was rather clear that PWC weren't on the committee/

  2. Did you mean that PWC are also joint administrators of KSFUK - they have been liquidators (provisionally) since early Oct.


liquidator confusion

  • Anonymous
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  • Sat, 06/12/2008 - 01:24

PWC are the liquidators provisionally of KSF IoM.
They are not administrators. They are not acting jointly.

On 9 October 2008 the Isle of Man Court made an Provisional Liquidation Order in relation to Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander (Isle of Man) Limited ("KS&FIOM"). Michael Simpson of PricewaterhouseCoopers was appointed as Liquidator Provisonally of KS&FIOM.

Ernst & Young are the administrators (not liquidators) of Kaupthing UK.


KSF Administrators creditors committee

  • Anonymous
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  • Sat, 06/12/2008 - 00:42

I think someone is a bit confused, I have trolled through hours of pages and the only appointment of administrator to KSF UK are 4 joint administrators from Ernst and Young .

Whilst looking into this I studied the Ernst Young statement on rules for creditors committees and my understanding is that our man Mr Simpson could not be elected, as he is not a creditor, and under the rules it is not possible for an corporate / individual to represent more than one creditor and we are certainly more than one

The statement is at

http://www.ksfiomdepositors.org/sites/www.ksfiomdepositors.org/files/E&Y...


KSFIOM is one creditor of KSFUK

  • Anonymous
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  • Sat, 06/12/2008 - 04:10

KSFIOM is one creditor of KSFUK. If we were all retail creditors of KSFUK this would not be an issue. We are creditors of KSFIOM only.

KSFIOM represented by PWC/Simpson are the 2nd biggest creditor fo KSFUK.

Now PWC please confirm what happened at the E&Y meeting regarding voting for the Creditors Committee - it shouldn't be difficult.


That's the most positive

  • Anonymous
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  • Fri, 05/12/2008 - 19:12

That's the most positive thing i have read this week!
Many thanks for the posting


Being the eternal cynic, I

  • Anonymous
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  • Fri, 05/12/2008 - 19:26

Being the eternal cynic, I will contain myself until it's in writing...