United and Organised (was fragmented and disorganised)

  • Diver
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
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Posted: Fri, 17/10/2008 - 11:12

Sorry to have to post this but it's becoming cleared by the minute that if we don't get our act together very very soon then we can kiss good bye to all our efforts to date.

We have no co-ordinated team
We have no centralised point of contact
We have no visibility on who various people are - how many know who the IoM team is?
We have no visibility on the detail of what is being done in our name - who knows exactly what meetings have been held? Who knows what's been discussed in these meetings?
We have begun to segregate into two groups...those with in-flight cash and those suck in the IoM

We need to address all of these now!

What is the point of a press release when we don't have someone in London (and yes it needs to be London because that's where all the press are) we can put up as a spokesperson and deliver our message?

What is the point of a press release when we can't even give the press a contact number for questions/interviews?

We can't even ascertain if we have a centralised email address that can be manned!

Sorry to say but we are at the moment a well intentioned group of people sailing around in a pretty rudderless ship.

My solution: By the end of today we need a minimum of 6 people who are prepared to be those that will represent up with all the authorities. These need to be split between the IoM and London for obvious reasons. These six can co-ordinate as they like but they need to let all of us know at the end of each day what exactly has happened, who attended what meetings and what was said.

This gives us as a group obvoius points of contact for us to get our info as well as people to point in the direction of the press. I have a list of 67 media contacts as compiled by Teapot but I cant send the PR out with this mess around us.

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PLEASE SOMEBODY give me the complete list of user names

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 21:27

... for the Core Team.


Fragmented and Disorganised - the image we want to give?

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 20:37

Just noticed, the "Fragmented and Disorganised" posting has been read so far 1644 times. Valid though its points are, is this what we want to be telling the public?

I will move this thread to Core team (so invisible to others) once I've added the members.


See title change.

  • occams razor
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 20:49

See title change.


well the BBC think we're very

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 20:41

well the BBC think we're very organised


http://upge.wn.com/?t=cheetah

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 20:32

http://upge.wn.com/?t=cheetah-article/postcomment.txt&action=post-comment&article=WNAT4c68cddd9e872e14ca5660f5d1a53dac'

check New Zealnd news as well
I am putting our statement in every news slot I can


STRUCTURE - occams, expat, kiwi, dave bradden, etc

  • adrienne
  • 10/10/08 13/05/10
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 20:23

All, I have volunteered to assist diver with project managing. Have emailed a detailed structure to Blair and diver. If you want to look at it so we can have something structured hopefully by tomorrow, email me. For now these are the key items I would propose we capture in a structure, and your input would be welcome:
1. current key actions and news updates
2. conference calls and meeting schedules
3. government and PWC contact made
4. media contacts made
5. publicity achieved


Core team - set up done

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 17:20

I need the list of members, .. expat, diver as a start ... no disrespect intended to the others hwo should "obviously" be included - as I've already explained, I simply don't know as I don't have time to follow the threads.


group

  • occams razor
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 17:32

This will be a group for the key people in charge of organising, to discuss.
They will of course post most things here too, but we will need to keep the group small and for those actually organising actions. They will then coordinate with all the users in the Actions forum
Otherwise it will quickly fill-up like any other of these forum threads.
Unless anyone disagrees...


roger wilko from the bunker

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 17:23

roger wilko from the bunker lets do this peole and god help g brown if do this properly remember the Mail on Sunday has yet to be seen!


will the people of the iom

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 16:54

will the people of the iom involved in this please stand up to the plate and help us,


help in I.o.m

  • Sarah f
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 17:23

Hi, I am willing to help in any way I can. I do not have any expertise in the areas discussed, but do have some time in the daytime for anything you think I can help with.


Sarah f thanks the plan is to

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 17:25

Sarah f thanks the plan is to deliver a petition at a time be agreed on Monday about 4.00 i assume, we deliver the Tynwell and we need faces lots of faces there, thank you if wwe get this right chaneel 4 and maybe bbc will be there as well


Expat - I'm here in the Isle

  • Ally
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 17:02

Expat - I'm here in the Isle of Man we have already met up a couple of times. You have my contact details. Ready at a moments notice.

Spent a pretty unproductive afternoon at the Isle of Man Courts. Really just admin people there no one who could say the legal procedures. Met a number of people but no one had definite answers as to procedures. Indeed all said "better talk to an advocate".

However been trawling through company law on the Isle of Man.
The extracts below would suggest that creditors can apply for a stay on proceedings.

Now we just have to find out how.

Any Manx legal people on the site?

166 - Power to stay or restrain proceedings against company
At any time after the presentation of a winding-up petition, and before a winding-up order
has been made, the company or any creditor or contributory may-
(a) where any action or proceeding against the company is pending in the High Court,
apply to the court in which the action or proceeding is pending for a stay of
proceedings therein; and
(b) where any other action or proceeding is pending against the company, apply to the
court having jurisdiction to wind up the company to restrain further proceedings in
the action or proceeding;
and the court to which application is so made may, as the case may be, stay or restrain the
proceedings accordingly on such terms as it thinks fit.


Lets apply for a stay of proceedings NOW

  • codhelpus
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sun, 19/10/2008 - 00:15

If this is the case then we really should go down this route to buy us the maximum amount of time we can get.

Its looking like Gordon is going to take a little longer to persuade and so is the Icelandic govenrment. We still

need to get the IMF to refuse Iceland some help unless they agree to uphold guarantee and Mike needs time to

get a buyer etc. I say this is an absolute priority to get done if we are able to. Is there a team on the IOM now that can find

out Monday how to go about doing this.


ally you're seconded mate

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 17:05

ally you're seconded mate


All support for Diver and Expat

  • Thor Halland
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 16:49

I fully support Diver and Expat to recruit and direct the operations as they see appropriate.Being in Thailand I am unable to offer any more help so I am very grateful that they are there ,in situ, and prepared to act.

As per the Author of this thread we need to have an organised front and I am gratefull that these two are prepared to lead it.

God Speed ,Gentlemen, and thank you.


seconded

  • Captain Mainwaring
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 16:50

It has taken threats of violence to ensure I have internet, but my hands are also tied where I am.


at the top diver & expat

  • skintagainnow
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 16:45

Right good - that sorted out -

Diver in charge in London

Expat in IoM

Forgot about all this interminable voting - this is democracy run wild -
Everyone back off calling for voting on this that and another, it's not driving this thing forward

Let the 2 guys pick their teams from a list of volunteers, end of story. No more voting.

All we need is a pool of volunteers - or better still the guys at the top email the people who they think are best suited - from the various posts already up I think they will have a bloody good idea of who they would like backing / advising them.

Lets get this moving !!!!!


frankly i don't have time to

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sat, 18/10/2008 - 07:24

frankly i don't have time to be anything other than active, i sadly think many still don't grasp a lot of this, but at this end i can tell you we are working 24/7


Well said as time is marching

  • Toast8
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sat, 18/10/2008 - 07:20

Well said as time is marching on.

Lets be clear that we are not short of effort or conviction and I am sure we all agree that all our initiatives are positive moves and have the support of the group. But I am slightly surprised we are where we are after a week. I mean, our fundamental queries (already presented) such as:

  • Status of inflights
  • Confirmation of comp scheme details
  • Liquidation petition proceedings update
  • Interested acquisition party involvement

are relatively unresolved.

I realise there are legal and technical constraints in which PWC operate, and yes there are likely to be politically sensitive meetings but I get the impression that an element of frustration is setting in within our ranks. We need to keep the faith because we are fortunate enough to have some very capable people on our side and all is not lost.

For the benefit of new comers and because site content has proliferated does anyone think that it would be a good idea to assemble some bullet/action points referring to where we currently are and where we hope to be next week? Any volunteers - ideally chipping away at the rock face and close to events?

We need to anticipate that the UK government may look unkindly on our situation and insist that the FSC/PWC provide an update prior to the hearing enabling us to respond in a timely fashion. I expected PWC to post an update yesturday too. In all we seriously are at risk of becoming merely a footnote in the history of a great recession and we need to keep it together.

Well done to everyone.


dave bradden is also seconded

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 17:24

dave bradden is also seconded sorry Lynne!


Good news, sound decision

  • go mann
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 16:55

Good news, sound decision ...


yers democracy is to slow for

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 16:47

yers democracy is to slow for this situation, just hit every media organisation we can, Mark Richardson at the BBC NW desk says we are very orgainised!


movers and shakers

  • bushmen
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 17:31

All,

I am not part of the movers and shakers team as well, so if i can do anything let me know.

Bushmen


Disorganised - Agreed, let's get it sorted NOW

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 15:20

One of the ways forward I think is a limited discussion group with limited membership and "by invitation only". That way at least we know that whoever is posting in there is one of the "core" team. It bugs me that I have no idea of who people are - I don't mean in terms of their personal id, I mean what are they doing, what do they know, what skills do they have, etc.

I can set the group up very quickly - Yes/No vote please?


I agree

  • btandkt
  • 11/10/08 30/11/09
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 16:45

We have only contributed a few comments to the discussions and helped with questions for the liquidator. I have sent off emails to the relevant authorities/press etc but can't do much more than that as I can't get to UK - I wish I could help more. I would like to ask - if you set this group up which I think you should, will it be possible to read these discussions even if we can't post anything?That way we can see what is going on in the group without cluttering up the group area with comments.
Also thank you so much for what you are all doing.
kt


Getting it sorted

  • saoversoix
  • 10/10/08 02/07/13
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 16:32

Please go ahead. I am really grateful to those of you who are able to take action and have the time to do it. It seems to me that diver would be able to co-ordinate action in London given his experience. I am limited to sending emails and writing letters, which I hope helps to keep our situation in the spotlight.


yes please

  • adrienne
  • 10/10/08 13/05/10
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 16:17

please go ahead


Yes please

  • Wanda
  • 12/10/08 31/08/09
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 15:34

ng - I agree with your idea. I've watched this site explode since I joined last Sunday and I've noticed there are those "who do" and those who do nothing, other than clutter up the site with their messages of doom and gloom. I don't know what I can physically achieve (being all the way over here in the States) but I know I can make a lot of positive contributions by putting my name, pic, story and amount lost out there.


Wanda you can achieve

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 16:34

Wanda you can achieve exposing this situation to a wider audience. and no i can't be doing with the doom and gloom merchants either


I hear ya

  • Wanda
  • 12/10/08 31/08/09
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 16:42

Expat - am working hard here on getting my friend (ex-Scotland Yard, lots of recent US TV exposure) onboard to help us out. Have told him all about your incredible work at "ground zero". Will keep plugging away.


Core team

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 15:42

Ok - doing it now - I'll update you shortly.


Core

  • Anonymous
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 16:17

ng, been trying to get the group's done but cant fathom out the permissions. Tryed 'my groups' and putting them in 'Site Editors' but cant work that one out....

Maybe they could be utilised.

Mat


Don't worry I'll sort it

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 16:57

Yeah I noticed.. I wasnt sure what you were trying to set up... Anyway, no big deal I'll do it. sorry its taking longer as they server dies again.. something really weird, was on the phone to another IT guy trying to get ideas - also agreed that its weird. Anyway, back on it now.


KICK-STARTING AN ACTION PLAN

  • Lucky Jim
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • not a depositor
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 12:00

This Forum has functioned like any other forum & has fulfilled a vital & necessary role.

The time has come for a number of Forum members to put their name forward as volunteers to represent the members.

I suggest:
1. a pro-active member in/near London and IOM offers their time as volunteer co-ordinator
2. the person offering to fulfil this role states here where they are located & the time they could commit to the task
3 diver or 'another' pro-active member liaises with these members to choose the co-ordinator;
4. the chosen co-ordinator gives here their name, location & contact details
5. THEN members living in/near London & IOM willing to be one of the 6 spokespersons in each location to contact the co-ordinator giving:
- name
- location
- contacrt details (tel. No. & e-mail address)
- any professional qualifications they have that might be helpful in the discharge of their role on members' behalf (eg: reporter, solicitor, accountant, counsellor, etc..)
6. The co-ordinator selects a willing spokesperson from each of the 2 groups
7. the co-ordinator reports the outcome to reports the outcome to the Forum


ACTION ON THE ACTION PLAN - NAME(S) PLEASE !

  • Lucky Jim
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • not a depositor
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 15:12

CUT THE CACKLE !

  1. JUST POST YOUR NAME NOW if you are living in/near London or IOM & are willing to be leader/co-ordinator/chairperson ;

  2. POST YOUR NAME NOW if you are living in/near London or IOM & are willing to serve in the ACTION TEAM under his/her leadership

iF YOU HAVE MANAGERIAL SKILLS, PR EXPERIENCE, LEGAL EXPERTISE, etc., ALL THE BETTER...BUT NOT ESSENTIAL--when the ship's going down a lifeboat full of people soon finds a leader and the rest quickly work together to survive under his/her leadership

NAMES NOW, PLEASE !


Ok..no other choice

  • Diver
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 15:35

OK, we can't wait any longer on this.

I offer to take full responsibility for heading up a team here in London which will involve co-ordinating any activities with the press and with getting our message out there. I would also place myself as the main go between between London team and the guys in the IoM as well as taking on the responsibility of making sure you guys on this site are updated with what we've done/who we've managed to see each day.

I also propose to meet the guys who can make it to London on Monday to try to persuade one of them to be the face of our campaign and to be the central focal point for the media circus we need to rile up.
I would also ask the guys and gals who've be so instrumental in helping with all the other press and london stuff to be the main people form the London team

For the record: I work for myself as an entrepreneur, I can dedicate a significant amount of time (most days of each week) between this Monday and the 3rd of December. I am a qualified Accountant with experience in Audit and Mergers & Acquisitions having worked for one of the 'big 4' up until January.

That's about it...let me know what you think...I have a very thick skin so feel free to shoot me down. :-)


those who can't wait

  • Anonymous
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 17:06

We have spoken by telephone. I would be very pleased to join the London group, provided it is understood that I am less than diplomatic in my approach.


sorry had to take a step back

  • Elpasout
  • 10/10/08 31/08/09
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 16:26

sorry had to take a step back to set the BBC up Diver my friend go for it you know the script!!! thick skins are a prerequisit to do this matey!!!


actually that was expa tsory

  • Elpasout
  • 10/10/08 31/08/09
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 16:27

actually that was expa tsory i am on the wrong bxo!!!


I'll help

  • adrienne
  • 10/10/08 13/05/10
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 16:21

thanks Diver

I have a few hours a day, intermittently during the day and at night. I live in london. Am not british. father has lost all his money, my sister is a lawyer at one of the golden circle firms, 2 brother in laws in 2 huge banks, we can draft letters, check legal statements, run tallys, numbers, whatever. Can't follow this site all day. Willing to be part of your action team. will email you my contact, already dealing directly with Blair on legals for stopping liquidation next week.


Diver, my vote. Someone has

  • occams razor
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 16:21

Diver, my vote. Someone has to do it, good on you.
Suggest you have a look through the Your Stories forum:
http://www.ksfiomdepositors.netgenius.co.uk/?q=node/21
and this thread:
http://www.ksfiomdepositors.netgenius.co.uk/?q=node/173
...and try to indentify good cases for the media, based on type of story and location, although even abroad can be fine for newspaper interviews by phone. Then contact them privately to enquire whether they would be interested to speak to the media. Of course, it's up to them.


well done

  • jenren
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 16:12

great diver.

I have sent you an email with my phone number. (think it worked, others have it if not) I am in london on monday.

Need to go off line for a while now.

Keep going.


Thanks Diver, i welcome your

  • qatar
  • 15/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 15:46

Thanks Diver, i welcome your leadership together with expat and the rest (too many to mention) i think i speak for many people in far flung places who feel helpless at this time and are heavily reliant on this forum and the work you guys on the ground are doing... couple of bad posts earlier start the emotional rollercoaster again!!!.. keep the faith folks we can win this!!


Full backing for Diver

  • TCA
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 15:45

Go for it Diver. The time for action is now before we slip between the cracks and disappear off the radar forever. Only sorry I'm on the other side of the planet and can't be in the UK or IOM to help out first hand. Best of luck.


Sounds like a plan

  • Diver
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 12:38

Great, there's the plan. I'm happy to help out in any way I can. I know we have more than enough capable people on here to do a fantastic job so please step forward and let's get this thing going.


At this end we now have ally

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 13:03

At this end we now have ally here checking as bes he can the legal requirements of a challenge.
Can the back door be used please hopper or guttered to get mike simpson to confirm that he has seen the parent company guarantee


I agree somebody in London

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 11:34

I agree somebody in London has got to stand up here hopper guttered? bblair?


London

  • Diver
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 11:40

I am more than happy to help with London, I will even take responsibility for reporting everything going on back to here and to make sure that London team and IoM team are in harmony but we need someone to put in front of the press as our official London spokesperson...'the face and voice of KSFIOM depositors'.

Expat has been great and placed his hear right above the parapet for us...now we need someone else. Offers?


is it something i said???? No

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 13:06

is it something i said???? No you need to get sombody in UK i have said I will not move so that has to be