Transfer of KSF funds to UK

  • Expat13
  • 19/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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Posted: Tue, 28/10/2008 - 19:26

I suspect that the Tynwald and the Isle of Man Financial Supervision Commission are as much to blame for the financial crisis as anyone for giving the go ahead to transfer monies from KSF IoM to the Kaufthing Bank in the UK without getting firm assurances from the UK Government (presumably the UK Financial Services Commission) that the monies would be returned to KSF IoM when needed. As I see it the IoM FSC played right into the hands of HMG.

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Guardian blog -- my rant is there

  • beneix
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 16:32

I paraphrased some TSC questions -- thought it was better if our postings on the blog don't look too identical.


fun time!!!

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 11:14

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/blog/2008/oct/29/banking-crisis-credi...

yes its a blog about the banking TSC! Fun time everyone!!!!!


I have posted on this Guardian blog

  • IdealisticRealist
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 14:29

We are a little behind and there are a few generalist banking crisis emails at the top, but let's get the focus on the KSF IOM fiasco? Diver may wish to comment on whether it's appropriate, but I suggest we overload this blog with KSF IoM comments and highlight our plight. The other bloggers and those scanning the blog may get bored, but at least they'll be made aware of our situation. Certainly, the journo would get interested.


keep it going thats how we

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 14:52

keep it going thats how we got the telegraph to notice us


Guardian Blog

  • Mrs Not Too Happy
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 14:32

Yes,

I've had a rant on this blog as well.

May go back in an hour or so and continue the tirade!!!!


thank you mrs not to happy

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 14:54

thank you mrs not to happy


Guardian Blog

  • Mrs Not Too Happy
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 15:40

The Guardian blog seems to be mainly about us now rather than a general debate on the banking crisis.

Good work by all !!!


FSC

  • Bill
  • 13/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 28/10/2008 - 20:36

Yes I think FSC should come under the microscope:
(!) Details of Derbyshire take over which they sanctioned
(2) Details of what they knew in the run up to Kaupthing's problems emerging.
(3) Responsiblity to keep depositors informed.....
(4) Circumstances surrounding transfers to UK- FSA involvement????????
(4) And then there's that secret Bank guarantee - why can't we see it?


guarantee

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Tue, 28/10/2008 - 20:47

I believe that we will have a copy later this week, no thanks at all to the FSC.


debate

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 28/10/2008 - 20:46

they are very much under the microscope i assure you,thye always have been from where i sit
go back to the inconsistencies in aspdens statements on manx radio.
ask yourself how manx deposits are handled and when?
is it plausible that one tranch of magnitude was sent to uK in one go?
how did so much money arrive in ksf uk and over what period? years?weeks? days?
which outfit has been very quiet in this?
and of couse why weren't we ringfenced over a long period of time?
why did i ask for a trawl through all we hve on the fsc in this?
debate!!


Pressure on the FSC

  • Bill
  • 13/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 28/10/2008 - 21:48

How should we approach this?

I have thought for sometime that the FSC has a lot to answer for, but up until now the focus has been elsewhere.


cold-dose i assume you have a

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 28/10/2008 - 21:16

cold-dose i assume you have a copy of the ksf im dec 2007 directors report, take a look at note 12 and then at the balance sheet for note 12, what does that tell you?
then listen to the aspden interview oon manx radio, perhaps mr smalley might do the same please
i just ask


Oh yes, they owe us a duty of

  • Captain Mainwaring
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 13:29

Oh yes, they owe us a duty of care - if as I believe was the case, they ordered the transfer of funds from Iceland to the UK to "protect" depositors then they should have kept an eye on them or left them alone - it is no good them saying to us that we would have lost in anycase - the got involved and owe us a very large duty of care.


Someone telling porkies?

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 28/10/2008 - 21:20

Doesn't entirely add up, does it?


!

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 28/10/2008 - 21:24

thank you at last i am ahead of you a little bit! damn right it doesn't add up, the transfers having beengoing on for years and were not ringfenced and should have been!
you have made my day sir!!! i am off for a glass of red wine!!


I smell a new Gunpowder Plot........

  • Lucky Jim
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • not a depositor
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  • Wed, 29/10/2008 - 00:59

Hey chaps, I think the Forum is accumulating huge quantities of highly explosive material should we need to pursue our case in legal action. IF KSF goes into receivership & IF we are told "tough! you will just get compensation" (God forbid!) THEN we have a watertight case to go to the European Court and present the explosive evidence of us having been denied our Human Rights by being divested of our property. If there's any Intelligence activity going on HM Government's 'spooks' will know by now that we have all the Aces!
Keep the powder dry, fellas!


Gunpowder plot and European Court

  • barrie stevens
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 09:31

I have written and then edited a downloaded section of this from the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) HUDOC website in Strasbourg in the Constitutional and Financial Section. It is long-winded but then it has to be I'm afraid! The devil is in the detail.First of all you have to ascertain the human rights angle from the point of the jurisdiction.The UK under the European Convention on Human Rights pledges to secure Convention rights to those within its jurisdiction. Many of you are scattered far and wide and I do not know if your original citizenship/domicile etc counts as jurisdiction for Human Rights purposes involving the UK. Neither do I know if living within the jurisdiction of another Council of Europe member counts as being within ECHR jurisdictions for the purposes of an action against the UK. The answer is on the Strasbourg website and I cannot recall reading this at any time in the past when I was involved.The jurisdictions are listed on Strasbourg's website and the Council of Europe which runs the ECHR/and ECHR Courts has members that are not EU nation states.Do not confuse the ECHR/Courts with the EU and the Council of Europe or indeed the European Court of Justice.Before even thinking about Strasbourg it is necessary to "exhaust local remedies" and in this context the ECHR has been imported into the Isle of Man and UK by way of their Human Rights Acts.Therefore you have a first duty to seek a human rights redress via the local courts of jurisdiction. It is possible to apply directly to Strasbourg and claim that it was not possible to exhaust local remedies as this question is ultimately for the Strasbourg court to decide.It is possible to launch a court application right now and obtain a provisional or "PL" number at once like "patents pending" and then use this as a lever.You can obtain the application form and strict format from the European Court of Human Rights and its website. The application must state which Country it is against and the specific Convention Rights infringed. You can all thousands of you apply now and it will be posted on the website or was when I did it years ago! Makes 'em think in London. Ten thousand human rights applications all at once!The process is free and they send you an information pack and you will need this for guidance regarding nationality and jurisdiction.The national Courts of the UK and Isle of Man have no jurisdiction in Strasbourg and cannot prevent or encourage you from launching a case.It is possible to get Legal Aid from Strasbourg both as a cohesive group or individually on the basis that you will qualify if you qualify for legal aid in your own jurisdiction.The University of Essex human rights etc department has lecturers who are also barristers and they often take on interesting cases to Strasbourg for free but pocket any fees or awards from the Court there.Your case might interest them and I suggest you put togerther a briefing having first studied both their website and that of Strasbourg.I must explain that the European Court of Human Rights does not act as a supreme Court of Appeal. It merely decides whether or not you have had your human rights infringed by the UK as the High Contracting Party to the Council of Europe (Not an EU entity!)It will not order your money to be paid back. It may award minimal compensation according to the magnitude of your human rights infringement in terms of the value of the specific convention rights allegedly infringed.In your case it is the First Protcol right to peaceful enjoyment of possessions and Article 14 "discrimination". Please study them and read my post aforesaid.Human rights damages or compensation are merely token with costs awarded which the University of Essex lecturers take as their fees.However winning such a case is a good pointer to what would happen if you sued for money in a UK/Isle of Man Court.A case launched at Strasbourg is against the United Kingdom personally and they defend that with leading QCs and Treasury Solicitors...but they do lose!If you lose against the UK you cannot have damages awarded against you but some Manx lawyers tried to tell me that this was the case... it is not!The decision as to whether or not you have exhausted all local remedies is a matter for the Strasbourg Court and I refer to the case of Ogur v Turkey 1999 as I recall. This case can be downloaded from the Strasbourg website which they used to call HUDOCYour problem is knowing which jurisdiction you live in under these conditions ie does the ECHR extend to where you are under UK jurisdiction. I believe that people in the British Sector of Iraq claimed that they lived under UK ECHR jurisdiction and were thus granted rights under the ECHR???I only know this because about ten years ago I took a case to Strasbourg and got a provisional Case Number...It is possible by the way to apply for a speeded up hearing in case of hardship... The case did not proceed, but I can tell you that a judge sent over to the Isle of Man from Manchester was a bit rattled as it was against UK and, whilst he ruled against us on appeal, he did say that he would not allow costs without his personal authority....Costs were never claimed and we did not pay anything....This was a case as litigant in person...But do not expect a human rights case to directly refund your money as the European Court of Human Rights only deals with infringements of stated Convention rights and does not assay, retry or decide on appeals. It is really a rather token court setting moral principles.Human Rights and the Convention are seen as living breathing creatures constantly evolving as human rights mutate to reflect change in values.Precedent is thus not so great a factor in human rights as in conventional law.The United Kingdom is the High Contracting Party responsible to the Council of Europe (Not to be confused with the EU) on behalf of the Isle of Man to which it formally extends all ECHR provisions and protocols.Remember, the Human Rights Convention is just a Convention and not to be confused with European law but now that the ECHR is imported into UK and Isle of Man domestic law decisions of the Strasbourg cout hold sway.The above is based on my own personal past experience and about which I have been invited to broadcast and write in the Isle of Man.Also, despite the comments made about me, I have in the Island been very public spirited which is my sole motivation coming from an older generation.Two people owe both their sanity and property retention to my actions as a private individual taking on the establishment and law in the Isle of Man...which is how I started doing the odd "Sunday Opinion" on Manx Radio just like Allan Bell of late.In this context have I been sadly misunderstood by spiteful and ignorant posters who will not identify their true selves!Now ye ignorant lot! Go ahead and insult me! But if you are serious you will nevertheless take heed. After all, forty years experience sorting problems without recourse to lawyers must mean something...and now I leave sunny Chelmsford for even sunnier climes abroad and when I return in two weeks I expect you to be in exactly the same situation...."kicked into the long grass" as the lawyers say.


OK Barrie - I have championed

  • Captain Mainwaring
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 13:37

OK Barrie - I have championed your corner for a while now.
In three sentences (God forbid we involve much format or punctuation here), tell me what should be done to solve this situation.

Otherwise, away with you to the nearest rumah sakit jiwa.


Barrie - point by point action plan

  • tubefly
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 14:57

Barrie,

As Captain requests - I too would hope you could provide a chronological step by step set of actions that you would advocate as being the most effective course of action - you see most of us are practical bunch....all we want is a route to getting our money returned - the journey itself is not particularly enjoyable.

Blair - not sure why you appear to have such a strong -Ve opinion on Barrie - maybe you could explain - I think the merit of this site is to have a broad discussion on possible approaches - however when it is time for decisions I am sure it will be put to the vote.


I started with a neutral

  • Captain Mainwaring
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 16:11

I started with a neutral attitude towards Basil, but if what I hear is true and that he has been suggesting elsewhere that we are all tax dodgers, then he will wish his mother had never met his father.

I can deal with curry for breakfast, lunch and dinner, I am pretty sure I can deal with him.


Curry for breakfast

  • Monkeyface3604
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 16:19

Oh yes a man after my own heart lol

If Barrie is double dealing then i vote we chop of his hands!!! Not literally of course as that would be a bit over the top!


Try it for a month, with 20

  • Captain Mainwaring
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 16:36

Try it for a month, with 20 bottles of beer to last you 10 days and a sting on the harris from a great big scorpion effort, and see if you say the same thing. I used to do these jobs knowing I could tell them to take a pddle until their hat floated at any time because I didn't have to any more, and now I do, so I am not best amused at anyone who gets in the way of my 210 thousand reasons for enjoying life.


not if we send him to saudi

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 16:20

not if we send him to saudi its not!!!!


Chopper square

  • Monkeyface3604
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 16:25

Ah a trip to the infamous chopper square eh lol I lived in Saudi for a couple of years when i was younger, heard many a story of that place......Hey Barrie, you fancy a trip???


i ws once asked what the best

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 16:34

i ws once asked what the best view of saudi was, on the plane leving it was my response!! you'd love it barrie, sand, camels, more sand, tents, more sand, sun oh lots of sun, and sand bid i mention the sand?and chopper sq!!


Calling Security

  • 491
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 15:32

Explained below:

http://www.ksfiomdepositors.org/node/965#comment-13059

I'm not negative on Barrie. I just don't understand why those who have nothing on the line seem to advocate the most radical courses of action.


bblair

  • skintagainnow
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 15:40

think you just answered your own question ;

quite simply they don't have anything on the line, nor do they have to put up any capital for their proposals


negative opinion on barrie

  • harrini1
  • 15/10/08 31/05/09
  • not a depositor
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 15:13

tubefly - can't speak for blair, but you obviously didn't see barrie's posts on IOM today, where he spent most of his time insinuating that people who banked off-shore did so because they had something to hide and that they were all tax evaders. I have no idea what his motives are and why he posts what he does, however, he does not personally stand to lose anything from this crisis.


Give me the URL and if what

  • Captain Mainwaring
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 16:06

Give me the URL and if what you have to say is true, then I'll fettle the bugger for good.


URL you require & a bit more

  • harrini1
  • 15/10/08 31/05/09
  • not a depositor
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 16:56

hi Captain.

Try This:

http://www.iomtoday.co.im/your-shout/Financial-crisis-and-IoM.4544715.jp...

Or, if you prefer, read on for some quotes:

"The banks here usually exist to serve people who, rightly or wrongly, are involved in "efficient tax planning". The banks take advantage of this need whether it be avoidance, evasion or "avoision.""

"when you put money in the bank you invest it and must accept that there is a risk. That the risk is greater offshore is well known but more so in the Channel Islands than here. People often do it because they are hiding something or dodging tax which is the upside. The downside is that you have little or no security/compensation."

"I mean that if you choose to bank in Islands such as the Isle of Man and Channel Islands, which are very small political and economic entities, then you have a hidden agenda! It may well be an ex-pat agenda legally avoiding tax...It may be chasing a high interest rate...it may be to do with residence, ordinarily resident and domiciled status...you may be a "non-Dom" or non-domiciled. There could be many reasons. Maybe you like Manx kippers? Who knows? I and the world regards people who bank offshore as not quite kosher and this accounts for some of the huge sums written about. Come on guys! The Island's total raison d'etre is helping people with hidden agendas!"

All the above were posted by Barrie Stevens shortly after all this started. As I have said before on this site, I have no idea what he is doing here apart from commenting on other peoples misery.


Has everyone checked this website: surely it is positive news?

  • Brian FISHER
  • 20/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 15:09

Has everyone checked this website: surely it is positive news? Seems to be linked to the IMF/Iceland deal -one of the attached strings. A New Kaupthing Bank site for individual non-Icelandic depositors to register with
Deloittes.

http://www.kaupthing.com/Creditorinformation/Information-for-creditors

BF


Has everyone checked this website: surely it is positive news?

  • Brian FISHER
  • 20/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 15:08

Has everyone checked this website: surely it is positive news? Seems to be linked to the IMF/Iceland deal -one of the attached strings. A New Kaupthing Bank site for individual non-Icelandic depositors to register with
Deloittes.

http://www.kaupthing.com/Creditorinformation/Information-for-creditors

BF


Barrie's Champion

  • 491
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 13:52

Yes, Captain, I've noticed that you have. And for a man who seems to be otherwise quite intelligent, it's quite hard to fathom.


Well, time to either stand up

  • Captain Mainwaring
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 13:57

Well, time to either stand up or off to the RSJ (http://www.kamus-online.com/index.php?key=rumah%20sakit%20jiwa&max=iden)


Calling Security

  • 491
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 13:27

It is kind of ironic that you begin this little missive by suggesting that someone else is long-winded.

Let me just take this opportunity to say this about some (not all) of the "visitors" to this website who don't really have any dollars at risk. It is my observation that the ideas sometimes espoused by this group serve to inflame the situation rather than resolve it. Mr. Smalley refers to the FSC as "failed" without even the benefit of all the facts and he advocated the immediate windup of our bank on Friday. Mr. Stevens wants 10,000 human rights applications!

I get a visual of this guy hanging around outside the surgery of a hospital. The doctors are talking quitely to the family about the patient who's life hangs in the balance. Then the guy walks up to the group shouting "amputate!", "heart/lung transplant!", "frontal lobotomy!". Doctor asks, "I'm sorry, but who are you exactly? Are you connected to the patient in any way? Are you a friend of the family perhaps? A doctor? Are you on staff here? Do you need a heart or a lung perhaps? No? Then why are you here? Why this patient? And if you have no particular affiliation, why are you so very loud?"

The advantage of this hospital scene is that at least the family can call for security.

Blair


Human Rights

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 16:41

As I believe I said last time Barrie raised the Human Rights angle, surely this kind of stuff would only be appropriate much, much further down the road?

Barrie does actually appear to be fairly knowledgeable about the ECHR. There's a couple of points to bear in mind though: firstly, it only applies to public sector organisations (i.e. the government), not private companies or individuals. So it'd have to be something that the government had done wrong.

Secondly, you have to have a credible complaint, something specific rather than just a general sense of being wronged. I doubt the UK would be intimidated by a huge number of clearly ill-founded cases being lodged.

Finally, as Barrie notes, you have to have exhausted all 'local remedies' - that is much more difficult now than it was ten years ago - both the UK and the Isle of Man have introduced Human Rights Acts meaning that these issues can be directly raised in the local courts.


Translation: Blooming Waste of Time

  • 491
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 17:51

But thanks, Cold-Dose, for being so diplomatic.


I'm not saying it's a waste

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 18:01

I'm not saying it's a waste of time, just something that's probably best put on the back-burner for now. There isn't currently enough information to substantiate a human rights claim, and it might well be best brought up in the normal courts.


Human Rights

  • barrie stevens
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 09:33

Now I paragraphed the above and when it went up all the paragraphs disappeared! There is something wrong with the website!


Cryptic

  • Alastair
  • 10/10/08 30/09/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 28/10/2008 - 21:26

Any chance of making this conversation a little less cryptic?


Your comment preceded mine in time !

  • Lucky Jim
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • not a depositor
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  • Wed, 29/10/2008 - 01:30

Just to note that you were not referring to my reply...I'm being deadly serious!


What are we on about?

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 28/10/2008 - 21:45

Well, it appears there is some discrepancy between KSFIOM's records, which show that depositing most of the funds in London is a long standing process, and the statements made by Aspen, which suggest that this was a recent development following advice by the FSC earlier this year.

I suspect the FSC gave some advice to KSFIOM, not realising that what they were advising was already the practice of KSFIOM (or thereabouts).


What are we on about?

  • manx-person
  • 17/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 14:02

I don't think that is the case, In accordance with Practice note BGN22 there would have been quarterly reporting (that is in fact submitted electronically) to the FSC on a quarterly basis.

It is also possible that tehre was additional reporting over and above this imposed from around the middle of 2008 when the increased default risk of Icelandic banks was in the public doman.

My guess, and it is a guess. that at this time that the Bank was asked to reduce it exposure to its Icelandic ultimate parent.


"My guess, and it is a guess.

  • Captain Mainwaring
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 14:06

"My guess, and it is a guess. that at this time that the Bank was asked to reduce it exposure to its Icelandic ultimate parent."

Would you say that placing money in a sister company with similar links to Iceland could be construed as doing just that?


Well that is a good point,

  • manx-person
  • 17/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 14:11

Well that is a good point, but I do think that there it would be easier to recover funds from a UK entity rather than an Icelandic entity.

Don't shoot me ! I didn't make the decision, honest !


To draw a parallel (not very

  • Captain Mainwaring
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 14:19

To draw a parallel (not very tastefully)

You advise your neighbour to let their kids play at Aunty Myra Hyndley's house, as soon as you realise that something is amiss, you don't send them round to Uncle Ian Brady's house, you tell them to go and stay at the house of a trusted uncle, or better still, make them play at home.


To draw a parallel

  • manx-person
  • 17/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 14:24

Well to be honest this whole thing as it turned out isn't very tasteful, people stand to lose alot of money, at the risk of stating the obvious.
I just hope that there is a satisfactory outcome, as we all do.


Well, I think one of the key

  • Captain Mainwaring
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 14:25

Well, I think one of the key points, if we have to get that far is "Duty of Care".


what are we on about? cold dose

  • manx-person
  • 17/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Wed, 29/10/2008 - 01:15

Looking at that I am not sure your conclusion is correct.
I think that this probably relates to client account monies.
There are different presentation techniques for this but its only about £1M.
There are specific rules about dercognising matching assets and liabilities; these are linked to capadq or tier1 calculation methods.
I don;t think its that signifcant, but I could of course be wrong.


Note 4 KSF IoM

  • Ally
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 28/10/2008 - 22:09

However if you look at note 4 of the financial statments, the related party note, in 2006 the bulk of cash at bank was at KSF UK.

However if you look at the postion at 31 Dec 2007 the cash was split Iceland 396,692, UK 79,372.