Is there a carrot that we ourselves can propose/offer potential buyers....

  • neilbkk
  • 10/10/08 08/06/09
  • a depositor
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Posted: Tue, 21/10/2008 - 14:55

Is there a carrot or something sweet to make any potential buyer more interested in taking over KSF IOM....this maybe / could be proposed my our majority group? One option was raised in the early days about all depositors promising not to rush the next day and take all their money out...obviously no buyer is going to be interested when that most likely possible scenario stands between them and what was/is a profitable well run business...service was great. Of course any stipulation would have to be agreed by all depositors and the legal stuff worked out ...but maybe something in principle could be tabled and debated???...maybe a dumb idea...........but anything that meant I would get 100% back I would be interested to talk about. GBP50k would cover a very small amount of my life savings.

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Iceland financial services

  • Rave On
  • 15/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 16:18

Hi Just wanted to share this with everyone. this mail has just arrived from the Iceland Services Authority

Based on new legislation Act No. 125/2008, the Icelandic Financial Supervisory Authority (FME) has proceeded to take control of Kaupthing. FME has appointed a Resolution Committee for the bank. The Resolution Committee has taken over all matters concerning the bank, including oversight of all treatment of assets and handling of all other business. The Committee is currently working and will start a valuation process as soon as possible. See news published on FME’s webpage: http://www.fme.is/?PageID=581&NewsID=340

Decision of the Financial Supervisory Authority on the appointment of a Receivership Committee for Kaupthing bank hf.

The Financial Supervisory Authority, Iceland (FME) would also like to point out that useful information can often be found on Kaupthing Bank’s webpage.

For further information and updates please visit:
FME´s webpage at: http://www.fme.is/?PageID=146
The Prime Minister’s webpage at: http://eng.forsaetisraduneyti.is/
The Ministry of Finance at: http://eng.fjarmalaraduneyti.is/

Information about the Icelandic compensation scheme can be found on the Depositors´ and Investors´ Guarantee Fund’s webpage: http://www.tryggingarsjodur.is/ On that webpage there are answers to frequently asked questions: http://www.tryggingarsjodur.is/QA/
The Depositors’ and Investors’ Guarantee Fund is a private foundation operating pursuant to Act No. 98/1999.

Kveðja / Best Regards,


Fjármálaeftirlitið / Financial Supervisory Authority, Iceland
Sími / Tel.: (+354) 525 2700
http://www.fme.is


Leaving Money In Won't Help...

  • DXB
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 16:11

IMHO. Our money isn't there to be "left in", for a start. It needs to be traced (which is why there currently isn't money in the pot to be returned to us).
What's there on the deposit book is a liability for any potential purchaser. Hence the interest in the loan book primarily (which represents an asset - an income stream) by potential purchasers.


<50k or over >50k?

  • neilbkk
  • 10/10/08 08/06/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 16:33

sorry I see now from the comments that there is a conflict in comments am I correct in thinking that those that had savings below 50k are happy to push for liquidation....those above 50k obviously dont want this ...the flaw in logic for those in the <50k camp relying upon the 50k compensation from IOM must realise there aint nothing in the pot right now.

Banks dont keep your money in their vaults ..they lend it..thats how you get interest...of course if you all ask for it back...they, Surprise!! wont have it!!

Good debate going on from all the threads...fair comments from all sides...lets make sure this does not distract from the good work being done by those on the frontline.

We need someone to speak to an official or Legal bod to see if this is worth pursuing or not..so we dont expend effort in the wrong direction.

A buyer of KSF IOM I feel is the best outcome to get our 100% + interest back.......the adjournment of the meeting on 24th Oct wont happen since that is where the petition will be made to delay the decision.


Deposits as Bank Liabilities - A Clarification

  • DXB
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 16:21

"Guttered"'s excellent technical paper touches on this, for those who are interested.
The relationship we have with KSFIOM as depositors is one of creditor-debtor. To the extent our accounts are in credit, KSFIOM owes us money. Anyone thinking of buying KSFIOM as a going concern must factor this into their offer.
Any sensible buyer with the ability to do so is probably going to cherry-pick the assets and leave the liabilities (i.e. not touch the deposit book).


Guttered's technical paper

  • arny
  • 15/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 16:31

Where do I find this please?


Possibly a meaningless

  • go mann
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 16:11

Possibly a meaningless gesture, but all avenues should be explored.

KE(IOM) Mk 2 can have my missing money for a year as long as I can then have it back.
"A.N.Other Institution" can hang on to my remaining £3 in their safe.
Restore depositor trust and I might send some more money as well.

But what value could I place on something like the Kaupthing hf guarantee, or the IOM FSCS? The World has moved on, and the IOM needs to get off its butt and move with it ... quickly! [The same applies equally to Jersey and Guernsey, of course].


CARROT

  • mikepapa
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 16:02

I hate to be a cynic but I honestly don't think this proposal has much 'legs' becauase:

1] Of course we would all [majority] be happy to leave our funds with KSF if it means we get 100%.

2] The funds would have to be 100% locked up to make it a 'carrot' - which I think may be difficult.

3] The above would have to be water tight, if not, we would all grab our funds and run at the first opportunity.

4] Any potential buyers will be looking for a good deal [ fire sale type] and this idea would take a great deal of their time an effort to put together.

Having said the above, I'm up for it if anyone can put it together.


Carrot

  • Julienne
  • 16/10/08 31/08/09
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 16:25

I too don't want to be a cynic but as mikepapa says - any deal along these lines would have to be watertight - which is what we thought we were in the first place!!
That aside we would be prepared to leave that which wasn't destined for our property purchase in December in the KSF bank providing someone can put the deal together and get a very nice institution with lots of dosh to sign up to it.
On the surface I love the idea.


Carrot

  • Monkeyface3604
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 16:07

I too hate to be a cynic but think this is unrealistic. Why would a company step in and buy a copany that only has some 10% to 20% of its stake at the moment. I think to be viable the money would have to be sorted that is held in the UK.

As everyone else would consider it if the offer came......but not holding my breath.


carrots

  • rk
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 15:58

if it meant 100% security for overall deposit "plus at least UK base rate interest (for £ deposits)" then I'd leave £75k there for a year.......


Re carrot - 14/10/08 offered to leave money in account

  • sabi Star
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 15:38

Looking back at the e-mails I sent - I see I also offered on 14/10/08 to Mike Simpson
to leave the money in my account for a year or longer if it would help with a takeover or other solution.


Perlease...... forget

  • Captain Mainwaring
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 16:08

Perlease...... forget Simpson, and at the first opportunity to get him out, do so. If he had teeth, he would have bitten by now.


Carrot

  • arny
  • 15/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 16:04

Are any of the county councils in this group? Surely they would be interested if it meant 100% recovery over any timescale. Do we have contact with those in Kaupthing?


'Carrot Proposal'

  • srcoates
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 15:33

The funds I had deposited were from a Self-Administered Pension Plan (UK Revenue require that they are deposited in the funds name i.e. not personal deposits), as such they were invested for the long term. I would agree to restrictions regarding length of deposit and withdrawl values in return for the eventual return of 100% of my deposit. At present given that my funds are not a 'Retail' deposit the compensation scheme in last weeks revised form offers me NO PROTECTION (this may be changed in the I.O.M. parliment this week).

Is everyone aware of this anomaly? Indeed the letter sent to me by Ernst & Young regarding the UK wind up of KSF Edge specifically states that Non-Retail deposits are to be treated as Non-Secured Creditors giving a lie to the Government's pledge to safeguard British Depositors.


agree

  • chokoro
  • 16/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 15:29

i stated this somewhere before. i thought to take it one stage further and use the deposits as a means to buy out KSFIom. I do not know the numbers involved. But if we all agree and drew up something that we essentially end up owning the company then it would be worth more in the long run to rather than betting on getting anything back.

If I was given the chance of doing this rather than loos 140K i would place the lot in an work together with running a business to try to recover the money that way....


POLL

  • chokoro
  • 16/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 15:36

Perhaps the admin on the site can create a POLL to draw some interest to the concept?

Perhaps we need to draw up some radical ideas to see if we can approach things from a different angle.We all seem to be following the heard, which is good, but it could equally be bad as we won't have covered things from a different aspect. These sort of ideas should not be rejected but discussed with openess to try for a solution that could work.....

The old saying of "United we stand, divided we fall" seems to ring a big alarm bell. Perhaps we could even go into someone like Mr Branson and ask him if he has an idea of running this business under the Virgin Brand!


carrot - Expat was that mentioned to the Liquidator?

  • kiwi38
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 15:28

In the early days myself and Nealjohnson (I recall?) floated this idea but like many things after a few hours it got lost. I also e-mailed the idea to liquidator Mike Simpson and got a reply along the lines of "thanks for your e-mail but I am too busy trying to assess where the assets are to think about anything else".

Expat - was this idea floated at the face to face meeting? I have my doubts as to how many people would (or could) commit to this and what practical way there is to secure this committment from all investors prior to any possible sale being agreed but we should of course try all options. I would gladly do it if it meant securing my savings.


Carrot idea how do we move this forward

  • Daughter
  • 17/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 15:24

This is an excellent suggestion. How can we move this forward to capture everyone on this site. A vote perhaps?


Carrot to possible buyers

  • worriedsaver
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 15:10

I for one would be prepared to keep £50K with KSF(IOM) for a given period if in return they return the remainder of my life savings !


i 2

  • IsleofMuppets
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 15:13

would be prepared to leave 50K in this farce!


Me too

  • arny
  • 15/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 15:28

If there is a press release to the effect that SOME depositors are this desperate it is sure to get us more mileage.


"Carrot proposal"

  • Daughter
  • 17/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 15:09

This is a great idea. We could offer this as a suggestion to Mike Simpson. Anyone support this. It would take trust.


Id back this

  • concerned son
  • 16/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 16:23

I would deffo be interested in leaving my funds in the bank provided there was a chance that i would get back 100% after a year or so..... problem is gents and ladies, that our money is not in the bank at all...its all frozen right here in the good old UK....!!!


I will join in this. I am

  • KA
  • 14/10/08 29/06/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 15:28

I will join in this. I am happy to run any idea past those in charge But I suspect that a buyout solution would in any event bring with it some restrictions on the depositors' s funds.....


would expat be able to mention??

  • neilbkk
  • 10/10/08 08/06/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 15:24

If this could be mentioned to Mike Simpson or some other official could be worth some thought...however this would not in any way rely on trust, anything would have to be proposed to all savers and then agreed and something written legally into the sale...I am not a legal begal but some sort of escrow that still would allow them to carry out normal business as a Bank.

I am concerned I dont wish to start a thread of thought that distracts from the main efforts but lets see what others think...please post your views.

Grateful if Expat would mind mentioning this to Mike Simpson to see if it is worth pursuing........or indeed find out what would dissuade a buyer from proceeding with a purchase of KSF IOM at this time.......and what would make it more enticing!!


I too agree with Neilbkk's

  • broke1
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 15:41

I too agree with Neilbkk's idea.

Same question though, how to get enough people on board to make it strong enough to present to Mike Simpson.

Could we have another poll for this?

The same idea would then presumably strengthen the postponement request


Carrot

  • cerberus
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 15:56

I would not object to such a carrot proposal in principle


Carrot talk

  • BustedFlat
  • 20/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 15:04

Could be an option neilbkk. I guess the problem is that we depositors are not party to the discussions going on between liquidator and interested parties. I wouldn't even know how to contact the liquidator.


Get real, we do not have a

  • user1123
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 15:36

Get real, we do not have a liquidator YET. Once we do, we have no control. Everyone should be chaneling their efforts into adjourning Friday's court. Contact the petitioner, text and phone (contact details have been posted) and put forward your views to ADJOURN, this will buy time to negotiate with UK and ICELAND over assets held and guarantees given. Once that avenue has been exhusted we can revert to the Buggs Bunny strategy.
CONTACT THE PETITIONER AND PLEAD FOR SANITY.


Petitioner contact information?

  • Daughter
  • 17/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 15:56

Do you happen to have the email link to for the Petition so we can all request the ADJOURNMENT? Much appreciated.


Get real yourself Ramsey Peel

  • kiwi38
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 15:46

I agree that we should try to adjourn Friday's court action. That does not mean that we should rubbish other ideas put forward in a genuine attempt to help the provisional liquidator secure the sale of the business as a going concern. Not everyone has the same level of financial knowledge as you may have but all are trying to help dig themselves (and the rest of us) out of a deep hole dug by HMG.


Simpson cares nothing for

  • Captain Mainwaring
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 15:57

Simpson cares nothing for you. PWC are in it to win it, it is a lottery win for them - though not so fast we can kick them out afterwards. From day one my primary concern has been to prevent the liquidation - if in the first couple of days a buyer wasn't found, then this is the primary objective, Don;t worry about the "transfers in flight " boys, we must stop proceedings if at all possible.


Get real yourself Ramsey Peel

  • kiwi38
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 15:46

I agree that we should try to adjourn Friday's court action. That does not mean that we should rubbish other ideas put forward in a genuine attempt to help the provisional liquidator secure the sale of the business as a going concern. Not everyone has the same level of financial knowledge as you may have but all are trying to help dig themselves (and the rest of us) out of a deep hole dug by HMG.


Carrot Talk

  • sandy
  • 16/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 15:25

I agree with the carrot but I hope we don't end up with a dead donkey!!!!


Carrot Talk

  • Bill and Beg
  • 19/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 15:33

Roses are Red
Violets are blue
If it's carrots your after
Then look in the stew