Support for DST

  • mr lynton
  • 27/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
Posted: Tue, 14/07/2009 - 09:58

I would just like to state my gratitude and support for DST in everything they have done on our behalf to date.
Like DST I have the suspicion that the HNW group or whatever they call themselves are primarily setting out to look after their own interests.
A prime example of this is their exclusion of bondholders from their group when some of us actually have larger deposits that the so called HNW members themselves.
Further dubious emails i have received from this group ( sometimes in error) where they are conducting secretive deals such as attempting to purchase the loan book themselves give rise to doubts in my mind they are acting in EVERYBODIES interests.
DST ,however, have always been clear and give as much information to everyone where they can reasonably be allowed to.
Once again, thank you DST for all your efforts.

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LOAN BOOK SALE

  • Wombat761
  • 30/01/09 20/03/15
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Wed, 15/07/2009 - 05:51

Sale of the Loan if for Full Value and on proper terms, might not be a bad thing - unless bought "on terms" !

It might result in faster payback for ALL depositors, with those prepared to buy the book taking the long terms risk.

Just an attempt at positive thinking !


Hello Mr lyton. Just to

  • adrienne
  • 10/10/08 13/05/10
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 14/07/2009 - 10:44

Hello Mr lyton. Just to clarify the facts....the proposal to purchase the loan book came from two depositors who are not the HNW group as you are describing it, although we do talk to them often too, and I respect them for their guts to stand up and try something. They are high value depositors who had a good idea and took the lead on an initiative entirely independently. These two put out a call on the site for other high value depositors to join them in their initiative. If they are successful, good on them.

As I said yesterday, it should be expected that multiple groups will arise with particular focus on an issue or a segment of the depositor population. it is NOT necessarily bad for us. It will be easier on everyone in the long run if we just start adjusting the herd mindset to the reality that various groups and initiatives WILL be started at different points over the next five years. And why not? Maybe something finally works which benefits some or all of us. We should all just try to be a bit more real.

Your description of the HNW membership exclusion is silly, we are not a teenage club with a set of membership criteria, and is something we havent actually even discussed in a single one of the calls because we just dont see the problem you do, and honestly have more important things to talk about. We started out as a group of individuals, who mostly found eachother through this site or at the TSC meeting, who all had a lot to lose and started talking to one another, a good number are bondholders. Bondholders were excluded from both proxy votes as a necessity of the voting process. We have several large bondholders as well as small depositors which we include in all our communication.

Please let me know if you prefer to be removed from any further dubious emailings from HNW.


Buying the loan book

  • DonaldC
  • 25/11/08 31/05/09
  • not a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 14/07/2009 - 12:35

Hold on a second here.

The decision to sell or not sell the loan book will be made by - PWC.

Against the wishes of DST, the HNW group have been singularly keen to keep on as liquidators - PWC.

Is there any connection here?

It is hard to disagree that it would be very "Good on them" for the depositors concerned if they can make a killing from buying the loan book at undervalue.

Just a shame its not good for everyone else, particularly if the retention of PWC were ever to be used as a bargaining chip.

Is this really the HNW group's stance? And if so, should they not make clear to depositors what governs the way in which their surrendered proxies are voted?


@ Donaldc

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 14/07/2009 - 16:06

As you are not a depositor may we know your interest?


Bellyup

  • DonaldC
  • 25/11/08 31/05/09
  • not a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 14/07/2009 - 16:47

Since you ask, my interest is <100k (not direct). Not sure why that's relevant though.

I don't think this is a conspiracy theory. In fact, Liebenk herself has confirmed she was aware of these negotiations and had no problem with such "opportunists".

My point is only that the opportunist's motives cannot be trusted where they are conflicted and no longer aligned with any body of depositors.

I apologise that my first comment implied that such a conflict was in fact in place. I was just a bit surprised by the news and wish this whole business of depositor unity had not become so unravelled.


Oh my goodness. Please just

  • adrienne
  • 10/10/08 13/05/10
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 14/07/2009 - 14:40

Oh my goodness. Please just stop this nonsense. I have been trying to provide a good thorough discussion with more information on this site so even if people dont agree, they can get more insight and understanding to what is happening and to the things which will affect them.

What is it that turns every conversation to a conspiracy which is being hatched against Kaputhing IOM depositors?


the next 5 yrs conspiracy this conspiracy that..

  • hippychickrobbed
  • 03/11/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 14/07/2009 - 16:23

we cant keep thinking like this for the next 5 yrs than we might as well just pack up all of this and just say bye bye to our funds, lets just get on with doing the best to get as much as we can back as possible. I just got two letters that I sent to the moj sent to lord bach, keep writing we might get a politcal soloution, remember persistence


there has long..

  • steveservaes
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 14/07/2009 - 11:52

.. been a rumour on the IOM that a certain depositor/ commentator on these issues has throughout been seeking to use trojan horse tactics to pick up the loan book for a song and make himself a killing. watch out for him.


@Steveservaes

  • Done like a Kipper
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 14/07/2009 - 15:15

I'm attempting to read between the lines here - if you are suggesting that the rumour is that a HNW depositor with substantial means is using the HNW group's voting power to further his own ends then this is extremely important to all depositors? Is my reading of your comment correct?


Kipper

  • steveservaes
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 14/07/2009 - 15:33

I don't know if the person is a member of HNW or is using HNW's voting powers but beyond that there has long been a rumour on the IOM that a certain someone was looking to pick up the loan book on the cheap and profit from our misfortunes and had adopted a reasonably high profile involvement, at least in the early days, for that purpose


Liebenk response

  • mr lynton
  • 27/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 14/07/2009 - 11:02

can you explain how attempting to purchase the loan book at a knock down price would benefit everyone? no offer has been received for more than 70% of its book value?


I cant, it didnt come from

  • adrienne
  • 10/10/08 13/05/10
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 14/07/2009 - 11:18

I cant, it didnt come from me, so you should rather ask the depositors who made the offer. From my perspective I am sure they dont owe the depositor group an apology, its business, thats just the way it goes. There will be opportunists and opportunities in every liquidation - and there will be people hunting for those opportunities. in this case it was a depositor, you should not resent him for that.

What i did say about the offer, is that we should expect that this kind of thing will continue for the next five years, and we should be realistic about it. This will not be the last curveball. It is a bank in liquidation, we are the creditors, we can try to influence the financial and litigation decisions taken through the creditors committee. At best we can influence a political agenda to resolve this.


Really?

  • Valentine
  • 18/10/08 31/05/14
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Wed, 15/07/2009 - 05:14

So it's okay for a depositor to get the loan book at a knock down price at the expense of the rest of us, is it?


Valentine, re Loan Book

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Wed, 15/07/2009 - 11:44

It is easy to understand why all KSF depositors would want the Loan Book to be purchased at full value but in the real world I doubt there would be many offers. How many cases have you heard of where assets have been purchased at full value from a company in liquidation. None to my knowledge.

It is not surprising to me that there are depositors looking out for their own interests. It's all very nice to say we must stick together to achieve 100% but in reality many depositors would jump ship if they had the offer of full compensation even if it meant at the expense of others. Some may call it cruel but, unfortunately, that's what its like in the real world.


@undone - loan book

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Wed, 15/07/2009 - 12:11

"Some may call it cruel but, unfortunately, that's what its like in the real world."

Unfortunately, yes. But we, the 'others', do not expect those who purport to be fighting for us to defend and assist such actions.


anrigaut, I agree

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Wed, 15/07/2009 - 12:45

We do not expect those within DAG to be trying to better themselves at the expense of fellow depositors, but do we know for sure that those involved in the said consideration to purchase the loan book were also claiming to fight for us. As I understand, it was not the HNW group as an entity but rather several(?) of their members. What bothers me is the constant infighting that goes on within DAG. Right now it is between those that side with the DST and HNW groups. Before it was between the pro and anti SOA groups to the point where those that fell below £50K were considered demons. I am not suggesting that the actions of those that try to better themselves at the expense of others should not be highlighted but it seems to me that this whole 'blame' exercise has been devised to run down the HNW group as a whole, of which I am not a part. Why can't we all get off this bandwaggon and try and find common ground.


Valentine, re Loan Book

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Wed, 15/07/2009 - 12:35

undone: I agree that it is not surprising and also that it is, as you say, "cruel". But there is no necessity for any depositor to take any action if it is known to be at the expense of others. Call me an idealist if you like, but there are many people who have shown themselves willing to make sacrifices for the common good.