State of play?

  • Lostinspace
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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Posted: Mon, 20/07/2009 - 15:18

Can we please just cut to the chase for one second?

Can some please explain, simply, where we are in this whole claims process, and especially since the apparently disastrous creditors' meeting on July 7?

What is happening now? Who decides what? It is the Deemster that decides who is on the creditor's committee? When will this happen? How will he decide? What will it mean? When is the next meeting, and how will that all work etc etc?

Frog - you are a well versed voice of sanity in all this business, if you have a moment, maybe you could give us (or me) an update?

Is it true that a first dividend (20p in the pound?) will be paid out by late August or early September? I read somewhere that a final payout may be in the region of 70-88p, is that still right, or wrong? But will probably take until 2013....?

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Re Creditors' Committee - See KSF Bank Website

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Wed, 22/07/2009 - 16:46

See KSF Bank website of July 22nd for info on CC meeting and other important data

http://www.kaupthingsingers.co.uk/Pages/4146


Hi Lostin...

  • frog
  • 10/10/08 13/09/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 20/07/2009 - 17:07

Where we stand is that the creditors committee will be decided by the Deemster as the result to get 7 candidates selected by the rules failed. There has been a lot written about this.... Anyhow, we hope an answer will be forthcoming tomorrow or Wednesday, but we don't know for sure.

The next meeting will be with the creditors' committee, and that will be called by the liquidator - we don't know when that is either, but I'd expect it to happen soon after the Deemster decides who is on the committee. Note though this committee isn't a deciding forum - in fact it's correct term is 'Committee of Inspection' where the liquidator can decide to present a course of action to the group to see if it gets general approval. Just because the committee agrees with an action, it may not go ahead and can be challenged by anyone affected in the court. It really is just a way to have the creditors try to influence the process of liquidation. If the liquidator goes to court to get approval to do something for instance, having the committee's approval would make it an easier task to get the court approval.

With regard to the first dividend, the 20% is what is expected to come from KSFUK to KSFIOM - the liquidator hasn't updated his figure for the first payment of 14.5% yet - which he can release as cash on hand. The extra will be from the KSFUK contribution, which may or may not arrive in time for the first dividend distribution. I'm hopeful it will, but it hasn't been announced yet. If the UK money is included, we could get close to 20% back.

With regard to the total amount back, the liquidator has given the number range close to what you say - but it depends on recoveries from the UK (minimum 50%, but looking possibly better based on their uplift from 10% to 20%) and also on the performance of the loan book. The bulk of the loan book gets paid back by 2013 - hence the date you mention.

You should check out Gordon 45's posting here: http://chat.ksfiomdepositors.org/forum-topic/it-8-dividends-mr-simpson as it gives a good (but non-official) guess as to the likely returns based on what we know right now.


Money back

  • Lostinspace
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Tue, 21/07/2009 - 03:34

Thanks, Frog,

I guess I would be fascinated to know how the Deemster decides who will be on this Creditors' Commitee and ultimately what effect it has in helping us get our money back, that's the crunch, isn't it?

Gordon 45's posting was very interesting, and sobering.

Meantine, I don't know if this Telegraph piece today helps us or not?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/5871867/...

Fingers crossed,


Well DST and HNW are

  • frog
  • 10/10/08 13/09/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 21/07/2009 - 15:31

Well DST and HNW are working together with the life companies to propose a way forward best for us.

The Telegraph peice is interesting - although I have no idea how it will help us - it depends if they merge the old Khf into the new one (but I'd be surprised). What I think is happening here is that it is a debt for equity swap, which may take out a portion of the commercial creditors' interest in the old bank, leaving us with more - but that is pure speculation on my part!


Iceland, EU Membership and Cash Still Owed

  • VikingRaider
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Wed, 22/07/2009 - 03:23

Could be worth contacting MEP's on this one. Reykjavik is signalling that it wants to be wooed by Brussels, but the UK and the Netherlands are standing firm on repayment of depositors (in UK & Holland). Time to pry the Euro MP's away from the Bollinger and Caviar and give them something useful to get their teeth into -- such as the money Iceland owes us.


Icelandic parliament seeks EU membership

  • jamjar
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 24/07/2009 - 12:41

Prime Minister Johanna Sigurdardottir said that an application will be presented to the EU next monday 27th JULY 09.Chairman of the Parliamentary Committee for the EU membership application,Mr Arni Thor Sigurdsson,said that Iceland could be ready to join the EU by 2013,definatly worth contacting MEPs,and strike while the iron is hot.


MEP Letter

  • Alastair
  • 10/10/08 30/09/09
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  • Fri, 24/07/2009 - 14:47

Jamjar about 3-4 months ago a letter was drafted (in various EU languages) and MEP lists for all the large EU nations and some of the smaller ones were prepared.

With the EU elections looming it was felt at the time, by some, to not be a worthwhile and so the effort was aborted. Given that the elections are past and with this definite statement from the Iceland Gov't perhaps it is indeed worthwhile rethinking this action. If we are going to do it I would like to see it coordinated so that each MEP receives the agreed letter from a DAG constituent (where possible). Given that most countries have regional lists or even country list this is not as difficult as it may seem, especially if depositors friends/family are prepared to send the letter.

If there is general support from the DAG members I'm happy to dust down the letters and try to bring the MEP list upto date. This could be a first stage EU related action.

As an action this is clearly one for the long-haul but maybe worth it in order to keep the pressure on Iceland to cover any residual gap in liquidation. If the gap is small enough this could still be seen as a cheap option for Iceland.


Claim from Kaupthing

  • steve
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Wed, 22/07/2009 - 06:03

There is a notice in yesterdays Times newspaper (21st July 2009) from Kaupthing BankHf inviting creditors to lodge claims by 30 December 2009. Claims to be in relevant currency and in Icelandic or English. If in any language other than English, it must have an Icelandic translation. Further information can be found on www.kaupthing.com but the address to send claims to is: The Winding-up Committee of Kaupthing Bank hf, Borgartun 19, 105 Reykjavik, Iceland.
I don't know whether our liquidator is doing this on our behalf but I felt I had to bring it to your attention


Claim from Kaupthing

  • barrona
  • 17/11/08 31/05/09
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  • Wed, 22/07/2009 - 07:08

Steve's email re Kaupthing Bank HF inviting claims from creditors needs to be addressed urgently by DAG/DST. Has this been brought to the attention of Simpson and if so, what is he doing about it?

If it has not been brought to his attention, then it should.


you want to know. what he has done

  • hippychickrobbed
  • 03/11/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 22/07/2009 - 16:41

PROBABLY NOTHING..


Absolutely true

  • Julienne
  • 16/10/08 31/08/09
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 22/07/2009 - 07:41

Totally true - Simpson should be made aware of this by DAG /DST - You can bet your life savings ( oh sorry mine have gone !!) that he hasn't done anything about it.

Please someone with contact and clout with him - start talking--------


Simpson

  • Done like a Kipper
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 22/07/2009 - 08:51

I have contacted Mike Simpson this morning asking if PWC will be doing this on behalf of all or us and he has responded as follows:

'We will be doing it as it is KSFIOM which is the creditor.

Regards

Mike'
(Sent by Blackberry)


Liquidators' Expenses and the Fat Cat Culture?

  • VikingRaider
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sun, 02/08/2009 - 10:14

I have just received the liquidators' report of the 17th of July and was struck by the expenses tables (pp. 26-27) Now while I may be an ingrained peasant as a lifelong member of NUBOYS, (the National Union of Bumpkins, Oafs, Yokels and Serfs) are there not others for whom the sum of £102,984 drawn by the liquidators for transport (air, rail and taxis) and accommodation seems a tad rich, suggesting a regime supported less by cakes and ale and more by lobster and Bollinger? Now the lquidators point out that this will be reimbursed (eventually) by the Early Payment Scheme, but it does seem on the luxurious side. As for the Scheme of Arrangement, the cost of related work represented 20 percent of all hourly labour costs at £621,202. I wish we yokels were paid as well. Ideas?


Surely, the liquidators are

  • barrona
  • 17/11/08 31/05/09
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  • Sun, 02/08/2009 - 10:17

Surely, the liquidators are constrained by rules and regulations and are accountable to some body at the end of the day? Perhaps someone who is au fait with IoM liquidation procedures can advise?

It was interesting to note from a previous poll that the majority of depositors, of which I am one, were not impressed by Simpson's performance.

Anyone can see that he has not acted in the best interests of the depositors and I trust that DAG/DST have got this on their list of matters to be discussed with our legal team.


SIMPSON'S ATTITUDE TO DEPOSITORS

  • flying pig
  • 16/12/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 03/08/2009 - 10:25

I have mentioned this before but Simpson refers to us as "CREDITORS" not "DEPOSITORS".

As far as he is concerned despite the fact that DEPOSITORS funded all these fat cats we are just unsecured "CREDITORS" at the back of the queue just as the poor window cleaner and any other trade creditor,

Top of the list is his fee!