SoA online calculator

  • AJM UAE
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
Posted: Thu, 09/04/2009 - 15:29

Someone has mentioned (I can't find the posting) that a downloadable online calculator of what we could expect to recover under the SoA is available.

Please could someone provide me with a link to this?

Thanks.

5
Your rating: None Average: 5 (3 votes)

Comment viewing options
Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

SoA/DCS calculator

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Fri, 10/04/2009 - 07:56

I have looked at the calculator and it seems to me that an assumption is made that for the DCS case a top-up to 50k is paid after 2 years (like the SoA) but where does this idea come from? I have not seen this in the DCS regulations. Unless I am mistaken about this the SoA seems to still be the better option for 50k depositors.


@jodup

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Fri, 10/04/2009 - 08:54

"This application has been produced for the benefit of DAG depositors using the information given by way of example by David Lovett in his 3rd Affidavit."

You will find the affidavit and example in the public forum.
http://www.ksfiomdepositors.org/sites/www.ksfiomdepositors.org/files/Thi...

The calculator provides SoA returns based on minimum payment periods; DCS returns based on Alix Partners calculations; and an idea of liquidation results without top-up of DCS/SoA. It is based on individual depositor balances. Joint accounts need factoring up to a max of £50K per joint depositor under SoA. Bondholders were not included in Mr Lovett's examples.


There is NO time limit for DCS payment

  • chris watson
  • 23/10/08 31/03/10
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Fri, 10/04/2009 - 08:37

The IoM government, whether using it as a negotiating ploy to favour the SOA or not, have gone on record to say that the DCS will pay out, but not within a specific time frame.


SoA Calculator

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Fri, 10/04/2009 - 02:29

This should work whether you've joined the group or not: http://chat.ksfiomdepositors.org/sites/chat.ksfiomdepositors.org/files/S...


SoA online calculator link - thanks!

  • AJM UAE
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Fri, 10/04/2009 - 06:20

Thanks to everyone who responded and to NG for providing the link below. Rather depressing reading though ... !


So lets now take the fight to London

  • dj
  • 07/11/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Fri, 10/04/2009 - 06:36

We have the figures. We know what is at stake. We know now that getting £550Million from London will help those figures, a lot. So lets get the that fight going! The UK treasury has the powers it needs (as has been used for cats, Whelan's, and Oxo cubes) but until we force them to do it then we will get 3-year sentence with the fine at the end.

Remember, the calculator is demonstrating that there is not even enough money to fully repay our deposits (IE. Monies we have paid into our accounts, but not ANY of the interest it has earnt over the years upto 8th Oct 2008); therefore until we get that 1/2 Billion from Darling we are singing walbilly (or whatever the phrase is).


SOA and payment of interest on accounts

  • rapata
  • 13/10/08 03/08/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Fri, 10/04/2009 - 20:29

DJ, Can you explain your comment above about payment of interest.
Are you saying that we will not be paid any interest that had been credited to our accounts PRIOR to October 8th, or only interest that had accrued from the last interest payment date of the account (our Money Market Account interest was paid monthly whereas our Platinum account was annually.) this would only rub more salt into an already very festering wound. We are being shafted every way we turn.


taking fight to London

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Fri, 10/04/2009 - 08:34

There may be additional ways to take the fight to London.


If you can get a response I

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Fri, 10/04/2009 - 09:27

If you can get a response I can be in UK on the 21st - 23rd of this month. I need to get a new visa and have a very short trip due to fiinancial considerations!!!! And I have to get back for my kids 7th biirthday party on the 25th. So I could do it then.


Link to online calculator

  • rapata
  • 13/10/08 03/08/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 09/04/2009 - 20:41

For everyone trying to find the link, here it is

http://chat.ksfiomdepositors.org/group-topic/email-7-sent-150309-letters...

It is the 6th item in the list of attachments - an Excel document titled SOA DCS Version 8c.xls


Access denied

  • dj
  • 07/11/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 09/04/2009 - 22:56

It is a reference to the £552Million in London. Access denied. Until the £552Million is released a calculator has a major problem calculating anything.


Access denied

  • chipmunk
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Thu, 09/04/2009 - 22:09

Why is Access denied ?


Group access denied

  • rapata
  • 13/10/08 03/08/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 09/04/2009 - 23:53

You need to be a member of the group to access items within. You could join the group, even if your deposits do not fall in that category.


Access denied

  • chipmunk
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Thu, 09/04/2009 - 21:50

Thats what it says..... Why ?


@ajm

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 09/04/2009 - 18:40

ajm,
you can download it from any of the £250K and up groups - you don't have to have that sum to join the group.


Assumptions

  • vikingvictim
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 09/04/2009 - 20:42

What assumptions have been made regarding the KSFUK return with regard to the SoA / this spreadsheet?


KSFUK return

  • Brabander
  • 15/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Thu, 09/04/2009 - 21:18

Viking victim,
I was never able to establish how much return from KSFUK was allowed for in the "calculator", perhaps nothing? My own judgement is that we will get some money back from KSFUK. KSFUK had cash in hand worth £409m on 26th November 08 (based on current exchange rates). I am not sure whether this includes the "secret" trust money in the BoE.
On the same date the KSFUK creditors totalled £4700m. £409m equates to 8% of this.
I assume we can therefore expect a bare minimum of 8%.
If we assume KSFIOM deposits with KSFUK will be offset by what KSFIOM owe KSFUK the net KSFIOM deposits with KSFUK would be £402m. 8% of this would be £32m.
Recovery of 8% from KSFUK would therefore generate a repayment of almost 4% of our deposits with KSFIOM.
On 26th February KSFIOM had £147m of cash. This is likely to be at least £160m today (why do we not have this information!!!). This equates to 18% of our total deposits. I assume the LP would need to retain around £25m of working capital. If the bank were liquidated without further delay there would therefore be no earthly reason why the LP could not pay out dividends of 15% right now and an additional 8 to 10% later this year once KSFUK starts paying initial dividends and KSFIOM recovers some of the outstanding COD's and receives the scheduled loan book repayments.
There is therefore an excellent chance of getting total dividends of 25% before the end of this year!
It is beyond me why this information is withheld from us. If the bank had been liquidated we would, as creditors, have been legally entitled to receiving this information.
The reality appears to be that the LP is not beholden to the creditors but to the IOM treasury. Hopefully time will tell that this is not the case!
Please note that I am not party to any preferential/confidential information, all this information is in the public domain.
Mike (Brabander)


SoA calculator

  • Brabander
  • 15/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Thu, 09/04/2009 - 19:44

I am a member of the £250k group and was involved in preparing some of the documents on this site.
Ally was kind enough to spend a lot of time on preparing the calculator on the DAG web site. It should however be pointed out that Alix/Spellman had promised to provide an "official" one. This was never done, ostensibly for legal reasons.
The calculator on the DAG site is therefore "unofficial" and it can not be assumed that the actual payment schedule will follow this calculator. The final SoA provides very little definite information regarding the actual payment schedule we can expect.
The fact that an "official" calculator was not published is in my opinion suspicious in its own right!
Everybody should make up their own mind regarding the SoA based on their own circumstances and how the SoA addresses these circumstances. The only certainty seems to be that depositors with up to £50k will eventually get all their money back. The SoA leaves the rest as uncertain as ever.
Brabander


legal reasons

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Thu, 09/04/2009 - 20:12

What is the nature of these "legal reasons" for their being no PWC/IOM SoA calculator?

I may be able to put my 80-page book entitled "Manx government reliable promises" on the website, if that would assist, but all its pages are entirely blank.


"legal reasons"

  • columbgc
  • 11/10/08 14/07/10
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 09/04/2009 - 20:19

Legal reasons my foot! Let them call it un-official for all i care and put a disclaimer but let them produce it for all to see! I doubt it ever existed.


I must be thick

  • Julienne
  • 16/10/08 31/08/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 09/04/2009 - 19:21

Sorry I must be thick or just really having a BAD day - I have looked for the calculator & have tried my group 250k and up but cannot see it.

I read earlier tonight that it was promised on the KSFIOM web site but that is no longer going to happen - reasons unexplained by the IOM.

I am curious to know the timings and amount of expected returns - in my personal case !! Guess they would really like to keep us in the "mushroom syndrome"- totally in the dark!!


@Julienne

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 09/04/2009 - 19:45

Go to Email 7 by liebenk, open the link to 11 attachments and you'll find it in there SoA.DCS Version 8c.
Ice


I too cannot find the 250K group

  • clodhopper
  • 18/01/09 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 09/04/2009 - 19:44

I too cannot find the 250k group and would like to find the SOA calculator - if only to get some sleep tonight. It has not been a good day!


@clodhopper

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 09/04/2009 - 19:58

See above. The groups are found by going to the top (of this page) and find 'Groups' 2nd in from left. Click on this and you'll find your way there.

PS The Calculator follows the examples in the 3rd sworn affidavit of David Lovitt, I cannot vouch for the IoM moving the goal posts and changing the % returns as it seems they have been doing without advising the Court or anyone else.
Ice