Skandia Bond holders advice please

  • penzance30
  • 27/03/11 31/05/09
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Posted: Thu, 01/12/2011 - 18:28

"We still have money in a Royal Skandia Bond, which cannot be redeemed without penalty until 2014. We would love to get all our money out of IoM and put it somewhere safe. The majority was invested into Kaupthing and the rest into a few property funds, student accommodation etc. The quarterly fees for the bond are now more than it is earning, and some of the property funds have a redemption period of six to 48 months. We have a financial advisor, but would appreciate any thoughts of group members before we approach him. Any thoughts/advice would be so appreciated.

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You don’t mention which funds

  • calpespain
  • 12/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Sun, 04/12/2011 - 23:10

You don’t mention which funds you are in only the type. But from reading between the lines it seems you could well have invested in Glanmore and Brandeaux funds. Two funds managers that financial advisors were recommending to offshore investors because of the annual kick backs the IFA would have been receiving. Plus of course the 3% + they would have received from Skandia too. If you are with Glanmore please contact me privately through the contact form on this website. If you are not with Glanmore you have been most fortunate. As investor01 has said, the cheap part of holding the funds inside of a bond comes after the initial 7 years of high fees, thus allowing you to hide those investments from being declared on your tax return of any European country in which you may be taxable in. If you have funds in Brandeaux then I see they too have a redemption notice period which currently seems to be paying out about 12 months behind. But as you cannot get out of the bond prior to 2014 without a Skandia penalty then you are kinda snookered. But saying that as said, if its Glanmore contact me.


Tax Wrappers in EU

  • investor01
  • 13/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Mon, 05/12/2011 - 19:29

Hi Calpespain,

Just wanted to pick up one thing you said in your post. You said that with the offshore bond you do not have to declare them on the tax returns in any EU country. Unfortunately this is not strictly true. I say unfortunately as we had the same impression when we moved to France. However, some research on the internet, followed up by my IFA speaking to some 'tax buddies', revealed that French tax law does not recognise the bond and strictly speaking you should declare it. Although the chances of being discovered are small, we chose to exit France which was convenient for us anyway.

One other 'pub quiz fact' - it's OK in Portugal. I know because this was another potential destination and their tax regieme does recognise the bond.

Whether all this will change with the big EU shake-up...who knows.

Rgds
Investor01.


Bond redemption - my thoughts

  • investor01
  • 13/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Fri, 02/12/2011 - 13:42

Hi Penzance30,

Obviously I can’t give you any formal advice but I can give you my thoughts based on the fact that we also have a bond – although not with Skandia. The first thing I would say is that it depends on the charging structure of the bond. When we took our bond out, we were given the option of paying a large charge up front and then not being charged thereafter; paying front-loaded charges for 5 years and then paying a nominal charge thereafter; and finally of having a linear charge throughout the life of the bond. You say that you cannot take your money out until 2014 without charge and so I presume you have something similar to us – i.e. option 2. If you take your money out after 2014 then this will mean that you will have paid the Life Company handsomely for very little work as, using our bond as a case, the cheaper services are from that point onwards. For this reason we have left ours asis although our new (and competent) IFA has suggested moving the money into Luxembourg. Although it is tempting to give the IoM a well-deserved slap in the face and do this, we would pay dearly for that satisfaction.

In terms of security of funds, we initially had money in deposits – one being Kaupthing – that we did not realise until after the event left us seriously exposed. However, our money is now in funds. Again, I can only speak from our experience as I do not know precisely which funds you have and who administers them but the risk relates to where your money is invested and the competence of the fund manager at the helm. The IoM factor has little bearing on its security. In terms of the type of funds, we also have student accommodation which is doing well given the financial climate. We also have some property funds which had done well but we are now considering selling. Whether you should do the same – well that is really one for your IFA.

There are also tax considerations as well...but I'm not even going to try to delve into that.

Rgds
Investor01


BOND REDEMPTION

  • penzance30
  • 27/03/11 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 02/12/2011 - 15:42

Hi Investor01

Many thanks for your detailed reply, we are in a similar position to you, and your thoughts have put things into perspective regarding cutting nose off to spite face by cashing in the bond early just to get our money out of the IoM.

After Kaupthing, we trust nothing and nobody and I wish our hard earned money was under the mattress!

Rgds
Penzance30


I know how you feel...

  • investor01
  • 13/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Fri, 02/12/2011 - 20:24

Yes, that is precisely how we felt and if I'm honest - still feel. But it's all about maximising your return and so this is best done in a sober, measured manner. Trusting nothing and nobody in terms of the financial world is not necessarily an unhealthy thing as it casues you to ask questions you may not have asked before; this certainly applies to us as we've found places to put our KSFIOM dividends.

Good luck for the future and I hope your IFA gives you some good advice.

Rgds
Investor01.


I've sort of frozen up..what to do ?

  • chipmunk
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 16/12/2011 - 19:37

I also have money in quite a large bond (Hansard) and like others I am losing money every month because it is in Bank deposits which all seem to be in the IOM (Again) ... I dont have a IFA because the last one ran away as soon as the crisis of 2008 came to light having just tied me up ( read stitched) a week earlier , locked me in for 8 years ..told me all sorts of non truths ...moved my money from Skandia etc etc....and Hansard wont deal with me directly as they only work through IFA's....and I really cannot face another one of those .

SO... I was so worried about Banks and IOM that I took all my money out of the Banks and now it sits in Hansard Cash account wthout interest...but I feel safer because its not in a bank....

My question is...

How safe will it be if I put it in a Fund ?

How can I get information on funds without committing long term and paying up front (again) and having to trust a IFA which is pretty much impossible...

All I want is to find some funds that I myself can invest in without years locked in and without big up fronts...

is that possible ???


What to do...

  • investor01
  • 13/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Sat, 17/12/2011 - 18:35

Hi Chipmunk,

As with my first reply on this post I can only reply with the benefit of my experience and not in terms of giving qualified advice.

The first thing I want to say - and I'm a bit reticent to do so as I don't want to put the frighteners on you - is that with your money sitting in Hansard's cash account, I don't think you are any safer than with it sitting in cash deposits. Assuming that this cash account is IoM based, which I suspect it is, if Hansard goes pop then you are in the same position of being a creditor. Indeed, in terms of risk it is worse as it is all in one place.

With all that said, it is highly unlikely so I shouldn't lose any sleep. But our experiences of the last 3 years have taught us all a great lesson.

How safe is your money in a fund? This is very difficult to answer as there are a myriad of different funds and my knowledge extends to only a tiny subset of them. Generally within a fund, your money is spread throughout a number of entities which may be governments, banks, oil companies, retailers etc etc. The safety you derive is from it being spread through more than one entity and so if one goes bust then you only lose a small percentage of the money. Indeed, it is the aim of the fund manager to make sure it is not in anything that is likely to go pop but that of course depends on the risk profile of the fund you chose (high risk = high return). The big difference between a fund and a deposit is that it will have a buy and sell price and this is subject to the vagaries of the market. So if you put £100 in, you hope it will be worth more than £100 when you take it out but this is not always the case. With the recent Euro debarcle my funds have all dropped a good deal. However, a healthy way to look at it is that now may well be a good time to buy.

I can understand your reticence to use an IFA but by and large they are decent people; the one I currently use is. Even the one who put me into Kaupthing (who I have now parted company with) was more naive than untrustworthy. There is plenty of fund information online but there are two key things to remember. Much of the information will be marketing bumpf from the companies themselves - e.g. M&G, Invesco, Jupiter etc. While I'm not saying any of it will be lies, you have to remember that they are selling their product just like everyone else. Secondly, if you're looking on the Net you do get drawn into the perils of armchair experts. These people often know no more than you or I but talk as though they do. In terms of getting good advice then I can only say find an IFA - particularly one who has been recommended. It's no guarantee but it increases your chances of finding a competent one. Remember though that the term Independent Financial Advisor is a misnomer; very few are actually independent as the financial companies pay them a commision on the products they sell. Truly independent people will charge you by the hour for their advice.

You can invest in almost any fund you like without having to go through an IFA and generally speaking, without being locked in. With my bond (and I assume it will be the same with yours), I simply fax a sheet through to the bond provider with the name of the fund and how much I want and that's it! The mechanics are very simple but having good advice is key. Some funds will charge you a percentage fee up front but many don't. This sort of information will be on the fund's fact sheet.

I would be happy to recommend my IFA but my note of caution is to say that they are professionals but not soothsayers. My new IFA saved our bacon by putting us into things in 2009 which did extremely well. This year? Not so well. But on balance I'm pleased with the advice.

Hope this helps.

Investor01.


Investor 01

  • chipmunk
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Tue, 20/12/2011 - 09:17

Thank you for all that it is very helpful and have now already gone into one fund.....

Rgds