Post-October 24th

  • IsleofMuppets
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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Posted: Sat, 18/10/2008 - 11:45

If, as seems likely, Kaupthing IoM goes into liquidation on the 24th, then we need to take a step back and reorganize for a long, litigious fight ahead.

To maximize the chances of success we will share certain efforts such as PR and broad lobbying, but we will divide into separate interest groups for other interests.

I propose that post-24th we will establish a totally new online forum that is far more structured and strictly monitored. I am prepared to do this and bear all costs.

The forum will be used to coordinate a detailed and multi-layered strategy. After the 24th the world is a different place and we need to move from a friendly community with a kind rep on IoM to a serious, structured body of 10,000 committed activists. Ideally the group would be led by a full-time representative coordinating and managing all activities.

Prior to drafting the structure of such a forum I below draft the different interest groups, please revise it:

A. Individual Inflighters
A.1 UK citizens resident in the UK
A.2 UK citizens overseas
A.3 Non-UK nationals (ex-IoM)
A.4 IoM nationals

B. Individual Depositors
B.1 UK citizens resident in the UK
B.2 UK citizens overseas
B.3 Non-UK nationals (ex-IoM)
B.4 IoM nationals

C. Institutions
C.1 Aegon
C.2 Skandia
C.3 Scottish Equitable

D. Individual & Corporate Bond Holders (I think these may be the same as C?)
D.1 UK citizens resident in the UK
D.2 UK citizens overseas
D.3 Non-UK nationals (ex-IoM)
D.4 IoM nationals

E. Corporate Depositors
E.1 UK corps
E.2 Overseas corps
E.3 IoM corps

F. Trusts

DO NOT POST ON THIS THREAD "HANG IN THERE" "DONT GIVE UP". We need strategic thinking for a tough battle IF liquidation proceeds on the 24th.

PLEASE DO POST ideas on strategies, post-24th forum structure ideas, and amendments to interest groups.

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Why "likely"

  • 491
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 20/10/2008 - 08:08

You say it "seems likely" that liquidation proceeds on Oct 24. Can I ask you why you would say that given that many recent indications are that the matter will be deferred. Blair


I agree, i'd say the balance

  • Captain Mainwaring
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 20/10/2008 - 08:16

I agree, i'd say the balance of probability is that the liquidation cannot proceed at this point, only perhaps an interim order and appointment etc.

As for a forum after the liquidation, well, it might be nice to keep in touch etc but to discuss anything apart from the fees incurred is really quite fruitless.


good idea ...

  • Anonymous
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  • Mon, 20/10/2008 - 07:36

... but way too complicated in my humble opinion. There will be very few conflicting interests amongst creditors after the liquidation proper begins, the main one being the question of so called inflight funds, and that probably can only be resolved by recourse to the courts, since no-one knows the right answer.

Leaving aside conflicting interests, all that remains is politics of the liquidation and all we have on our side is strength of numbers. If I am right, why would you want to divide up that strength?

But, what do I know?


After Friday

  • IsleofMuppets
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 20/10/2008 - 07:23

Soon we must focus efforts on the unpalatable truth of liquidation.


Yes, why 'likely'?

  • Anonymous
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  • Mon, 20/10/2008 - 08:25

What is making you believe liquidation will occur on the 24th? As opposed to a takeover?

Mat


What's the point? if as you

  • Captain Mainwaring
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 20/10/2008 - 07:27

What's the point? if as you so firmly assert, KSF IoM is placed in liquidation, then you have absolutely no say in what goes on. It's down to PWC.
The only course of action is to attempt to suspend the decision on liquidation, otherwise all your little groups are futile.


incorrect

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Mon, 20/10/2008 - 07:31

The creditors have a good deal of say in the liquidation, including the choice of a liquidator. Our little band of website members represent a formidably large fraction of the creditors and so have significant power if organised. And we could be very organised.


Firstly, you stand two hopes

  • Captain Mainwaring
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 20/10/2008 - 07:36

Firstly, you stand two hopes of getting rid of the present liquidator, and secondly I'd like to know what you can do once the company is in liquidation? agreements of liquidators fees perhaps?

It has to be prevented from facing liquidation, the petition has to be opposed, though quite likely PWC won't want that as they don't make so much.


the 2 alternatives

  • Anonymous
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  • Mon, 20/10/2008 - 07:45

Option 1: liquidation is postponed, perhaps indefinitely. Creditors have no say in what happens and it is controled by politicians;

Option 2: liquidation goes ahead, creditors have some say in what happens and politicians have none at all.

I am not competent to choose. If you choose 1, and you evidently do, can you say why?


Yes the creditors do have a

  • Captain Mainwaring
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 20/10/2008 - 07:51

Yes the creditors do have a say. Unfortunately the IoM doesn't seem to have an administration process as does the UK, in Admin , then the company is kept in a condition for sale, woth a view to offloading it.

In liquidation , the PWC have a free hand for fees, and cannot be challenged except in very few cases.

The longer this bank remains with a rictus sardonicus, the more chance there is that assets in the UK can be released, and the more chance there is of finding a buyer for a potential profitable business.

Take a look at ING, last week a big shot bailing out Kaupthing, yesterday, in the poop themselves. There is a very thin line with bank solvency, and we are as close as it gets to that line.