Please read this article in the Telegraph and comment

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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Posted: Wed, 19/08/2009 - 12:58

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/rowenamason/100000616/fsa-needs-a-s...

Possibly the best article yet, realistic and factual. Please add your comments, this is a REAL newspaper not an obscure blog site, this is what the general public can see.

Rowena Mason writes about energy for the Daily and Sunday Telegraph.

FSA needs a shred more than hand wringing over Iceland's banking implosion

By Rowena Mason Economics Last updated: August 18th, 2009

Sir Fred Goodwin is hardly beloved of the British public. But imagine just for a second how we would feel if the former RBS boss had been dishing out loans of £1bn plus to himself, his mates and their companies. People might want to chop off more than his pension.
Now picture a fictional scenario where there were senior staff at RBS, with very little prior experience in banking, who had been throwing around interest-free loans to related parties to buy shares in the bank itself that were written off when it collapsed. What if the Government was unable to bail it out, triggering defaults that spanned across the globe? Then there might be rumours swirling round about HBOS, Bradford and Bingley and Northern Rock, sparking fears that the whole British banking system was based on hot air and money plucked out of nowhere.

Landsbanki's savings account icesave took in millions from Brits
There is no suggestion, of course, that any UK bank behaved in quite such reckless manner. But a bank operating on British soil?
Well I can think of three for starters. Leaks flowing out of Iceland over the last couple of weeks about the unusual practices of its failed banks, Kaupthing, Landsbanki and Glitnir, ought to prove very uncomfortable for British regulators. These are the failed banks that took £1bn in deposits from UK local authorities equivalent to 5pc of all our council tax bills and whose internet operations collected about £7.5bn from UK savers.
The parent banks of Kaupthing Edge, supposedly regulated by our Financial Services Authority, and Landsbanki’s Icesave, regulated in Iceland, are currently under investigation in their home country for allegedly excessive loans to their directors and owners. The largest, Kaupthing, is under scrutiny for allegedly operating a complex share support system that may have manipulated the market.
No wonder enraged Icelanders are chucking red paint at the bankers’ mansions. They have soaring unemployment, aggressive budget cuts, restrictive conditions imposed by the International Monetary Fund and a decimated financial system. Dr Jon Danielsson of the London School of Economics estimates that between 60pc and 80pc of all Icelandic business could be technically bust.
It now looks likely that the overwhelming £2.3bn cost of bailing out British customers of Landsbanki’s Icesave internet accounts up to 22,887 euros per person (£19,623) will fall on this tiny country’s shoulders.
The mess is not all Iceland’s fault, despite the claims of the UK Financial Services Authority that it was powerless to stop the foreign banks from setting up a branch – Icesave – and a subsidiary – Kaupthing Edge – to target British customers. It also claims that it could not stop Kaupthing from taking over the British bank Singer & Friedlander, from which the Edge accounts were born in early 2008, because they had to take the word of the Icelandic regulator that these banks were safe.
So the FSA (staff 2,800) relied on the say-so of the Icelandic FME (staff 50) despite the fact that some analysts, journalists and economists were warning that the country’s financial system was looking precarious? Did they take a look at the banks’ annual reports showing loans to related parties running into hundreds of millions? Was there any concern that the web of cross-holdings and opaque structure of investment vehicles behind the banks could collapse like a house of cards? And lastly, why should we put our complete faith in another regulator to monitor banking services conducted the UK just because its country is a member of the European Economic Area?
The leaks and whistleblowing over the last couple of weeks ought to prompt the Financial Services Authority to engage in a little bit of introspection: the operations of the Icelandic banks in London cost the Treasury billions with uncertain hope of clawing much of this back. I’ll eat my favourite hat (a trilby, not very tasty-looking) if the FSA admits any culpability in public, but I’d like to think there might at least be hand-wringing behind closed doors – and even some plans to consider how foreign subsidiaries or branches might be better monitored in future.
Ps: We’ve set up a page to keep track of the unfolding Iceland story

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Hi Caledonia

  • conned
  • 13/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Thu, 20/08/2009 - 08:37

Hello there, I had no problem. My posts was from the point of view that the situation is ongoing, in that, the vultures are gathering to pick clean the bones of the IOM depositors. They see a pool of money and are syphoning off all they can lay their hands on for pension shortfalls, IOMG expenses, soliciors and adjourments at every oportunity. The chances of us getting anything near our full deposits back are minimal in leiu of this so we have to go on the offensive. More and more videos, please, we are hitting the bigtime with our campaign. No more begging for crumbs.


Exactly conned...

  • hippychickrobbed
  • 03/11/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 20/08/2009 - 09:23

we cant stop now, they didnt stop a bank liquidation.....the videos are great love the dallas one, now that is art, shall we have episode 2..


First Divident Payout

  • half0rdh0use
  • 28/01/09 n/a (free)
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  • Sat, 22/08/2009 - 07:07

22.1%.....is not 100% so lets keep up the pressure....view the latest video to be posted on the "The KSFIOM Depositors Action Group" Facebook page
(If not already a member-JOIN!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuEDmxKTzJg


Putting it into perspective

  • Wanda
  • 12/10/08 31/08/09
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  • Sat, 22/08/2009 - 17:03

Right you are, halfOrdhOuse. This meagre offering, after 10+ months, is a drop in the ocean as far as I'm concerned. The question I ask is whether Sir Elton John would get out of bed to sing at MY birthday party for this amount - probably not! Now there's a thought - someone should alert him that his fee was derived from the ill-gotten gains of the Kaupthieves, at the expense of hardworking British citizens.

Another yardstick I use to measure the value of this payout is that it would only cover the liquidator's wages for less than 3 weeks and yet it took me almost 5 YEARS to earn! Something is really wrong with this picture and that's where halfOrdhOuse is right - we cannot ease up on the pressure just because we have been tossed a few crumbs.

The latest Youtube video really brings home the human misery of this legalized robbery. I urge everyone to view it, rate it and comment on it.


Comment on Telegraph article

  • caledonia
  • 14/10/08 30/09/09
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  • Wed, 19/08/2009 - 15:08

I have tried and tried to post a comment, but each time, I never receive the email to activate Registering/Logging in. I have even tried from different email addresses - has anyone else had this problem? Any suggestions?


Trying again

  • caledonia
  • 14/10/08 30/09/09
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  • Wed, 19/08/2009 - 17:56

I am beginning to think I am blacklisted! Tried posting on IOM Today and it keeps coming back ........... but I won't be beaten, I will keep trying.


Telegraph registration

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Wed, 19/08/2009 - 15:21

Yes, I tried too this morning. Getting no email, I tried again, with the SAME email but a different username and got response (on the screen) that my email had already been given and I should have a reply "within 2 days"! Not exactly the instant service they suggest. ...

I did comment on Rowena Mason's previous article, for which there was no need to register. All very strange.


KEEP TRYING POSTING ON TELEGRAPH

  • conned
  • 13/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Thu, 20/08/2009 - 08:40

I found everything went well this morning to post comments on the Telegraph, so keep trying. Nobody said life was easy. Up and at em !!


@ expat -- makes you wonder about the 'inside' of KSFIoM

  • Lucky Jim
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Wed, 19/08/2009 - 14:25

I hope the Creditors Committee will be able to probe into the 'innards' of KSFIoM, but I suspect that they will not be allowed to do so (eg: what happened to the £10million that the IoM government was said to have had in there? How much did the directors have & when did they take it out? Who else in the IoM 'corridors of power' had money in the bank?...etc..etc..
Me thinks there's a can of worms in there but I seriously doubt if the Tynwald Select Committee of Inquiry will dare go there!

Rowena Mason is very new to 'Twitter' but I am following her, and right now she will be getting this delivered to her space on 'Twitter' http://www.twitter.com/Jim4Justice

I hope that what she reads will find itself on the Telegraph's follow-up page
here

We need that can of worms opening!


TWITTER TOPIC

  • lorraine
  • 14/10/08 14/07/10
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  • Wed, 19/08/2009 - 18:39

Can everyone with a twitter account please post this:

RT@LorraineTerry check this out http://snipurl.com/qilr7

It's a link to the telegraph article in case you're wondering.


LJ I realise you are on a

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Wed, 19/08/2009 - 15:25

LJ I realise you are on a crusade to batter the IoM, but no it doesn't make me wonder at all. In fact I think you'll find that topic was discussed and dismissed months ago. What it makes me ask is what on earht the FSA were doing; what were KSF UKs advisors such as KPMG doing? Concentrate on where the real problem is, the FSA and the Kaupthing Directors in Iceland and London. They are the ones who perpetrated this, they are the ones who need to be brought to account, the IoM are guilty of stupidity.


I agree

  • dawes
  • 24/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 21/08/2009 - 12:52

Kaupthing was a criminal organisation and the Icelandic government were in cahoots with them. Why can't they be sued?

Another point is that Kaupthing has not disappeared, both the old and new banks are still in existence with the full financial backing of the Icelandic government who have recapitalised the banks with a billion Euro's .

Icelandic government is also being sued by 60 foreign institutions for unfair and preferential treatment given to domestic customers, which violated EEA law.


Wholly agree Dawes, time to

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 21/08/2009 - 16:34

Wholly agree Dawes, time to investigate further and see where we can go on this subject. But let us not forget the regulators who sat by and let it happen on their watch and in their jurisdiction. This is a multi-faceted fight we face.


Thought for the day

  • Wanda
  • 12/10/08 31/08/09
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  • Thu, 20/08/2009 - 13:37

"Welcome back" is too tame to express my thoughts that Expat is back amongst us and firing off his missives again. My thought is "hooray". I have always said that he is the voice of reason, with an incredible knack for telling it exactly like it is. That being said, I also fully credit Captain Jim for his sterling work in putting the cat amongst the pigeons on the IoM.

The problem with the blame game is that it can go on forever, as we have discovered these past 10 months. Regardless of who is to blame, the end result is still the same - we were led like lambs to the slaughter by the combined efforts of a bunch of thieves (Iceland), bullies (HMG) and incompetent fools (IoM). The emphasis here is on COMBINED efforts and that leads me to the purpose of my posting. In an ideal world (one in which there are no thieves, bullies or fools) Expat and Lucky Jim would combine THEIR efforts. If that were to happen, I can only imagine what the outcome would be.

Of course I do realise that the best defenders of life, liberty and justice ALWAYS have huge egos and the tendency is to then turn everything into a pissing match (there's a lot of that going on in here - no names mentioned!) but if Expat and Lucky Jim were able to "agree to disagree" and then work together, they would make a formidable team.

Just my thought for the day - please feel free to rip it to shreds!


Big EGOS

  • Valentine
  • 18/10/08 31/05/14
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  • Sat, 22/08/2009 - 05:03

Spot on - Wanda.
It's wonderful to see the likes of LJ and Expat discussing things rationally on this forum. Long may it continue.
It's true that the big EGOS of this world are the movers and shakers, the ones that get things done.
However, in the past few months it seems that the big EGOS in the DAG have spent most of their time on this site trying to shoot each other down with scant regard for the ultimate objective of all of us.
Let's hope that this new development is a good sign for the future.


Sadly the destruction that

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Sat, 22/08/2009 - 07:02

Sadly the destruction that has been wrought by the manner of the few on this site has had its effects. Insult and bully people and they tend to walk away and ignore you, many depositors have felt the need to leave the forum and probably DAG as well. It doesn't take much imagination to see that a small island in the Irish Sea has done much the same for the same reasons.

However I'd like to think one or two us can start a repair job, at least on the depositors side. So watch this space. So can I think the the likes of Wanda, Bellyup, Valentine and others for the posts and emails that might have pricked a few consciences!


A worthy thought

  • lorraine
  • 14/10/08 14/07/10
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  • Thu, 20/08/2009 - 13:57

What a novel idea - people getting on together! Whatever next.

Seriously, I wish everyone would read this post from Wanda and take heed. We need to work together not spend our time bitching, that won't help us but will allow Iceland/HMG/IoM to wriggle off the hook.

As i see it there are many culpable bodies but our point of last resort is HMG. We are for the most part British and in this predicament through no fault of our own, as such our government has a duty of care towards us. We need to call upon HMG to support us and take action on our behalf irrespective of where blame lies.

Our twitter/youtube action continues but we need more input from members. This won't work with just a few, EVERYONE needs to help. Please please if you do nothing else email your address book and ask them to view and rate (5 star of course) the 'Dont Bank on the IOM' videos. There are still far too few views to get us anywhere. We're in the low thousands we need to increase these numbers all the time, look, vote, look again. Keep visiting every day over and over.

We need more activity on the twitter account and the FB account as well, please just post messages, not all doom and gloom. Invite people to become friends on FB, keep it growing.


No need to rip it to shreds...

  • investor01
  • 13/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Thu, 20/08/2009 - 13:55

...as your observations are spot on. The problem in many conflicts is that people don't understand each other - and I am not explicitly talking about Expat, LJ or anyone else here. As you rightly say there are theives and fools on all sides and all the time we are not 100% united then those same thieves and fools and a good chance of getting away.

As I learned in business, people who think differently but work together can often achieve more than a group that just congratulates itself. If our goal is truly '100% back for everyone' and no one has any other agenda then what possible reason can there be for disunity other than the inevitable conflicts of personality that occur in daily life?

Let's continue to squeeze the IoM for not owning up to its catastrophic blunders or having the balls to stand shoulder to shoulder with those it let down. Let's carry on hammering the UK for stealing the money in the first place, lying about why they did it and then putting the frighteners on the IoM.

Enough said.


There is no division here

  • Lucky Jim
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 20/08/2009 - 16:23

There is no division here. I share the same holistic view as expat. I have read reams of experts' analysis presented to the g20 & many articles in the Nationals that seek to explain 'what went wrong' in the global financial meltdown..

Many things went wrong in the chain of events & circumstances that led up to October 2008 -- the financial disasters in the USA ~ Northern Rock ~the Icelandic banking crisis ~ the UK banking crisis ~ the role of the FSA & FSC ~ KSFIOM, etc.

Naturally it would be convenient if the finger of blame could be pointed at one person! The immediate target was Darling, but then cynics said it was all Margaret Thatcher's fault, then some said it was all Gordon Brown's fault when as Chancellor he counselled that the foot should be taken off the pedal of regulation to let 'the market' work without constraints. He allowed the credit boom to --er -- boom. He spun the myth that 'bust' was never again going to happen.

On his watch money was easy to borrow but became difficutlt to repay when recession put holes in peoples pockets. And so the quest for THE culprit goes on, and as there is no obvious 'one person' responsible for it all there is a need to find a scapegoat.

Ah! but perhaps it is not a person we need to identify as 'the guilty party' -- perhaps it is something that can not be brought to court to account for the overall disaster in which KSFIoM depositors were unwittingly caught up. What have I in mind? GREED.

Through the love of using other peoples' money to make money for themselves, bankers & City wizzkids were driven by greed to create monetary instruments (hedge funds, derivatives, instruments for marketing dodgy sub-prime loans, etc..).

So in the midst of all this we want to zoom in to identify who is to blame. A chain can have umpteen weak links but its is only as strong as its weakest link. Depositor's money was in KSFIoM, and the weakest link that we can readily identify is the decision made by the directors to transfer assets to KSFUK. Yes, there's a plethora of questions we are asking about the part the FSA, HM Treasury, etc., played in it all, BUT however justified the directors felt at the time, - & however the FSC justified supporting their actions - the fact remains THEY are the ones that said "GO!" -- and the money WENT!

Tony Brown said he would sort it. He hasn't. The TSC said the IoM & HMG should get together to sort it; they haven't. So depositors are sorting it by putting pressure on the IoM to sort it. If it doesn't then it risks the goose that lays the golden eggs for the IoM economy dropping dead.

It is our duty to tell the world DON'T BANK ON THE ISLE OF MAN until it gets its house in order so that people can feel it is safe to trust the banks to take due care with their money.


Sorry I've been away, seems

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 20/08/2009 - 17:26

Sorry I've been away, seems to have been a bit of a problem on my internet line! Me and LJ at war, I don't think so, we have exchanged emails for many months actually, we don't always see things the same way, but so what, vive la difference! Anyway conned asked if there is any one innocent agency in this. In my opinion the the regulators of all shades have proven the bankers right in asmuch as they are not up to the job by any stretch of the imagination. I think the the exchange of letters between Sants and Aspden is about as absurd as it gets, both preening their egos and neither actually coming to the point, which of course was "is it safe to put the money in the UK". Sants evasive answer is appalling. So no I don't have the view that any agency has come out of this well, the point is which one is guilty enough to sue.

I'm less inclined to conspiracy theories and more inclined towards rank incompetence and outright stupidity as a reason for our immediate plight, although the greed of the Icelandic banks and it has to be said their government, is outrageous in the extreme.

As Jim says there is an awesome list of the guilty in this, the trail is extraordinary. But it is true that I am not in agreement with the 'sack the IoM" tactic for a number of reasons. One is that it simply isn't going to be effective, the IoM are under far more pressure from HMG, I would suggest, than anything DAG or its off-springs can subject it to. Secondly it is the case that the depositors % of the IoMs GDP is miniscule and we are not going to "saved" at the expense of the rest of its financial industry. I personally think it is naive to assume anything else. Yes an enquiry will be a whitewash, because yes the greater element is the financial industry and that is inevitable and wholly predictable in my view, so I don't get wound up about it Jim. No different from countless HMG enquiries, BAE and Saudi for instance! This is all about being pragmatic and finding the battles that we can win, not raising peoples temperatures, hopes or heart rates with battles that have no victory, or are tilting at widmills.
I'm sad to say that is what I watch to much of, if the anger were channeled where it really could hurt I probably would have been more supportive of DST in the past or the London Team. As it is I teamed up with HNW (terrible name but there we are) because I have more common ground with those individuals as to how to proceed. Nonetheless I am all for co-operation and getting justice for all, I do think there are different needs and positions and that is fine as far as I am concerned, that's what democracy is all about. But I can put my differences aside for the cause, can others is the question. We all need to see the wood from the trees and not become a single target group, which is the perception people I talk to seem to have of DAG. I feel the IoM bashing that has gone on has been counter productive and a distraction, others think otherwise and that's their right. It is also my right to disagree.

Anyway I digress, like Jim I think the I think the quest for "a single guilty party' is a bit fruitless, because there are so many interconnected pieces in all of this. From the Yuppie years, which I was sadly or otherwise a part of, to the self preservationalist attitudes in Downing St and many, many points in between. But what is clear, very clear, is that KSF was heading for bankruptcy and was very badly managed. I might also add that I for one have used Gordon Browns statements about the USA returning money the UK from the Lehmans collapse (whats good for the goose etc), in numerous letters and communications with the HMG agencies and MPs. So I have point out that the UK has never received that money and never will. Insolvency Laws take precedent.

So we're back to where we started, a political solution. I press, many press, we all need to press the case with MPs, but its an enquiry into the conduct of the regulators and the Kaupthing directors in Iceland and UK that I see as the only real hope of getting any form of compensation, I'm afraid that politically we seem to be a minor cause. If there is ever a prosecution in this, I'd hazard a guess that's where it will come from.

And debate should be encouraged on this site, not discouraged, disagreement should NOT garner insults or threats. Anyway a lorry has arrived from Moscow with our stuff so gotta go now, and HNW is alive and well, but having a good think about what the best route is right now on numerous fronts, particularly after the leaked KSF documents!


Correspondence between Aspden & Sants

  • arny
  • 15/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 20/08/2009 - 17:40

I've missed this, could someone please tell me where it is to be found.


Arny, I think what you are

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Fri, 21/08/2009 - 16:49

Arny,
I think what you are looking for is on the public site, here http://www.ksfiomdepositors.org/sections/facts/iom/fsc/correspondence

The (to me incomprehensible) exchange of letters between the FSA and the FSC in May 2008 was supplied to the TSC in Feb 2009. There are also letters from E Coe to both FSA and FSC about this.


What you are looking for

  • investor01
  • 13/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Fri, 21/08/2009 - 14:23

I believe there is some text that the IoM used to satisfy themselves that liquidity would remain in the UK should they need their transfer repaid. I seem to recall some waffle from Sants basically saying, those words were not a guarantee which the IoM should have known or something along those lines. However, from LJ's link to the TSC report is the following text that relates to it. it is an exchange between Nick Ainger and Lord Turner from page 307:-

"Nick Ainger : These limits apply to the whole of KSF’s book and
thus would cover any deposits received from KSF
Isle of Man—your question four.” Was the purpose
of that letter of 21 May to give reassurance to the
FSC in the Isle of Man that any large deposit that
would be placed in the London bank would be
secure and covered?"
"Lord Turner : ...We
confirmed that regime was in place. Whether that
provided sufficient assurance to the regulator on the
Isle of Man was for them to decide. We are another,
as it were, host regulator and our job under our
MoU with them is to provide them with
information; it is not for us to make judgments on
that information. We accurately answered their
question and that regime was indeed in place with
the bank."

Interestingly, later on, Mark Todd questions Sants about whether the above was the sum total of FSA/FSC exchange :

"So the correspondence we have is
the sum of the relationship on this matter between
the FSC and the FSA?
Mr Sants: To the absolute best of my knowledge,
and I have made a comprehensive investigation of
the files and talked to those employees of the FSA
who were involved in the incident and are still
employed"

I may be going off at a tangent here but I find it interesting that it is only people who are still employed that he questioned. Maybe that was just being practical as people leave and join organisations but the fact that it was mentioned at all implies that there may be others who did know what went on and who moved...or perhaps were moved?


arny, this relates to the

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 21/08/2009 - 06:28

arny, this relates to the letters exchanged between John Aspden of the IoM FSC and Hector Sants of the FSA in spring of last year, Aspden asked if the 'regime' was safe and Sants responded in a very circular and pompous manner. Aspden seems to have read it as " a good idea at the time" and Sants denies it was co-ercment. I am not sure where on the site you can find it now, I only have a paper copy these days. But I'm sure somebody will know. Either way it is fundamental to the process of upstreaming to the UK.


Thanks expat

  • arny
  • 15/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 21/08/2009 - 06:46

I would like to view the originals, vital evidence of incompetence of both perhaps. Can anyone help me find these?


@ amy - see the transcript of the TSC of 3 April 2009

  • Lucky Jim
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 21/08/2009 - 12:29

As I recall it the substance of the Aspden-Hants communication was in the transcript of the evidence to the TSC on 3 April.


I was Jim, I just don't have

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 21/08/2009 - 16:31

I was Jim, I just don't have it in digital form right now, its interesting reading. There was also a radio interview with Aspden way back in October with IoM today I think it was, which first got me looking at this area. If anyone is interested, and in my view they should be, the link is still in this site somewhere!!!


Finding references to Hector Sants on this site

  • Lucky Jim
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 21/08/2009 - 20:15

Go to 'search' on the menu bar at the top of the page & put in Sants & you will find references to him on this site.

If you have time to spare put in Aspden as well ! (:


@exacty expat: the directors.......

  • follow_the_tao
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 20/08/2009 - 04:37

You're HNW... Are we going after the directors together or not?
Cashen and Gelling obviously implicate the FSC.
At the end of the day the FSC and the directors took compromised and ridiculously naieve decisions (as the Muslims say: Trust in God but tie up your camel first.)

Now let's get together!


@ expat.... this is NOT a crusade

  • Lucky Jim
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Wed, 19/08/2009 - 22:09

No I am not on a crusade. This is war which is now on 2 fronts, Douglas & the IoM. We relieve the IoM of responsibility by appeasing it if we say "ah! it is not your fault,-- it is all down to Iceland & Westminster". It isn't.

KSFIoM would be the only surviving KSF bank today if it were not for what the directors did with the backing of the FSC. That is where the buck stops. The DAG's evidence to the Foot inquiry (on the DAG's public site and HERE ) makes it abundantly clear how the IoM has failed abysmally.

The DAG's Mission will now ONLY be accomplished by a political solution, and it is up to the IoM government, the IoM banks, & HMG to resolve it.

If there is another way I would be pleased to hear of it. Period

My very best wishes to you & yours now that you are back in the UK. ( :


Well we agree on the fact

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 20/08/2009 - 07:38

Well we agree on the fact that only a political solution is going to return 100%, I have said that from day 1. I don't doubt the idiocy of the unsecured money being in UK, but it is by no means the place where the buck stops in my view. The buck stops at the Kaupthing directors who ran a bank like a casino and the regulators in UK (and of course on the IoM) who were inceompenetent and allowed a bank to decline towards bankruptcy as they watched. The buck stops with those that perpetrated fraudulent statements about the health and future of the Kaupthing group. The buck stops at the door of people such as Hector Sants and his misleading letters that assisted in sucking the money to London. The buck stops at the door of the FSA and HMG who allowed a bank to be sold on and then washed their hands of what occurred in their jurisdiction. The buck stops at the door of no 10 for the panicy reaction to a phone call that sealed the fate of our bank. The buck stops at the FSA for cutting off the last line of communication that could, at the last minute, have saved our money, they found it easy enough to move the Edge accounts after all.

This is now and always has been a multi-faceted fight, to concentrate on one area is to miss what has been perpetrated in Iceland and London. I still would like to know for instance just what HMG threatened the IoM with last November, as it obvious "something' happened at the meet between T Brown and The Ministry of Justice. I often note the statement that the IoM are "more interested in their independence than depositors", yes I would have thought that was a bit obvious. To base an argument on such a nefarious and naive statement isn't really going to go far is it. Of course any 'nation' is going to out its sovereign status before a few individuals.

Its interesting to note that the majority of qualified observers, such as MEP Joly and a number of UK MPs, let alone the press, see this as a regulatory failure and an Icelandic banking collapse. So however much bile anyone wishes to poor on the IoM what about the the originators of the problem? I'm all for justice, but I want to see it across the board and at present Iceland and the FSA are getting off far to lightly in the accusations stakes and always have done. Surely the leaked KSF documents as well as the few press articles of any note that get published show that?

So pursue the IoM by all means (although the returns against the cost look a bit odd to some of us and I can think of better ways than abuse), but as far as I am concerned, and a fair few others, there are much larger fish that need to be caught and dealt with. And that has always been the case. It is by pursuing those areas that we might force an Inquiry into this and from that we might be able to make a case in a courtroom for some form of compensation that is relevant and makes a difference. I suggest that the IoM directors are insured and its not likely that we can get much there, pretty much the same with the FSC I am advised. Much as I've always wanted to see Aspden's head roll!! I suggest there is more to be gained in the UK and Kaupthing. If there is of course anything to be gained at all.

And finally I'll say what I've said man times, any hope of a co-operative IoM was destroyed long ago by the invective of the few. Not helpful in my opinion. But everyone is welcome to their view, in spite of attempts to the contrary, this is still a place where free speech is allowed. and opinions should be tolerated even if one disagrees. And thank you for the welcome home Jim, it is nice to be back.


Where the buck stops

  • Lucky Jim
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • not a depositor
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  • Thu, 20/08/2009 - 10:22

We are not poles apart on this. Lots of buck passing has been going on since October 2008. In 10 months we now have a pretty good grasp of the picture, a picture that is being illuminated almost daily with the revelations coming out of Iceland.

I do not doubt for a moment that there are lots of blameworthy people who are in the frame. But right now the ones who lost £532million of depositors' assets are the bank's directors. Yes, they have protected themselves. No good suing them because even if they were not protected they don't have the money they lost - that's in the KSFUK pot being gobbled up by secured creditors & E&Y etc.

In the final analysis the IoM government has a responsibility to do something as all this has happened on its watch with its FSC being as guilty as hell for its complicity. Well in advance of the Select Committeee of Inquiry the IoM government has pronouced that the directors & FSC have done nothing wrong! Hogwash! If it were true why have a committee of inquiry? Simple - to tell the world that that IoM is a credible offshore financial centre. It isn't. They want transparent whitewash! Whitwash is not tansparent -- at best it is opaque & when applied thickly it covers up all!

DONT BANK ON THE ISLE OF MAN is not a campaign of revenge dreamt up by angry depositors. It backs the evidence that the IoM is no more competent than Iceland to run an offshore financial services industry, and expats & other around the world need to know the facts. As Aspden says himself, deposits in the IoM bear the same sort of risks as investments and it is up to depositors to satisfy themselves that their money is safe in the IoM. DAG members are helping them make well informed decisions as members don't want others to endure the hell that they have had to put up with for 11 months.

So instead of prepararing a whitewash the IoM government - if it has to - should crawl on its knees to the UK and do what the TSC advised 4 months ago to sort it out. It hasn't done it. Well, pride comes before a fall.

Finally, we need not worry that the campaign will bring down the IoM economy.
That is not the objective. If it starts to look even remotely that it is having such an impact you can be absolutely certain that the IoM government will do something before it starts to lose it AAA credit rating. The Treasury has stated that income from deposits represent only a small part of the IoM's budget. If that is not true then the best thing it can do right now is get Kaupthing out of its hair by finding the means to to restore depositors every penny of what they have lost.

A political solution is now the only answer. The DAG is stepping up the pressure to bring about a political solution. That pressure includes pressure on the Westminster Front of this campaign as well as on the IoM Front. I am upfront on that Front. Others are handling the Westminster Front.


THE BUCK STOPS

  • conned
  • 13/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 20/08/2009 - 08:45

Hi expat, hope all is well with you, Is there anyone you suspect of being innocent in this fiasco? What I mean is, every agency that had a hand in this, is guilty as hell.


Hi expat, Good to see you

  • mikepapa
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Wed, 19/08/2009 - 16:18

Hi expat,

Good to see you back after so long....trust all well with you and yours.

Kind regards,

Mike


Back in UK and awaiting

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Wed, 19/08/2009 - 17:03

Back in UK and awaiting shipment of the last of our furniture Mike! Still settling in as there is lots to sort out, but trying to keep up with whats going on and encouraged by the Telegraph publishing something at last!!