New user: I read the horrible stories, thinking about establishing business in IOM but now having doubts

  • investor6
  • 08/02/09 31/05/09
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Posted: Sun, 08/02/2009 - 12:04

I read many of the stories here and also this:
http://chat.ksfiomdepositors.org/journal/are-bank-deposits-safe-isle-man

I was thinking about starting a new business in the IOM, I am not a UK citizen so the Visa requirement for Business is having the money in the IOM.

After reading these all horrible stories and seeing that IOM has no guarantee for deposits whatsoever I wanted to ask you for your opinion. Shall I stay away from the IOM and look for another place? The tax % in the IOM is very low but on the same time I am asking myself if it wouldn't be wise to pay full-tax in my home country (40%) instead of risking it to non-guaranteed-banks?

I am sorry I have no advice or suggestion for all your stories, I am just affected by everything and feeling like this entire world is about to collapse :(

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brennajm, merlina, thanks for

  • investor6
  • 08/02/09 31/05/09
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  • Mon, 09/02/2009 - 18:16

brennajm, merlina, thanks for your comments.

Again, I know it's hard for me to communicate with English/British people, I sometimes go to the supermarket here in London, asking the shopkeeper if he sells eggs, immediately he says no, and I feel like I want to punch him in his face lol. How come you say no if you have it? Just because it's easy for British people to say no all the times lol?

You guys have negative impact or impression before READING THE WHOLE THING, I am coming from a very very different background where in our culture life isn't 1-2-3, life isn't about being like a robot, and I definitely feel like the UK itself, not only the IOM is a big junky robot, worse than United States, I think the UK is definitely going to be the next Iceland, the TV here is FULL of commercials for banks, I don't think anyone should feel confidence about it.

There are safe banks in this world, check out other continens on the right side of this world and you'll discover many safe banks, the problem is tax, many of these countries are quite annoying with their tax % and stuff like that, the IOM is the only place that if offering really good incentives in terms of tax.

NOW, I WILL TRY TO MAKE IT VERY CLEAR, APPRECIATE IF YOU COULD READ BEFORE YOU GO AHEAD AND REPLY, JUST TAKE THIS 1-2 MINUTES TO READ THE FOLLOWING, AND ONLY THEN REPLY:

1) I am not intended to INVEST in any Isle of Man Bank.
2) Since I'm already in process of applying for Business Visa for the Isle of Man I was thinking about the following.
3) Put the minimum amount of £ in the IOM - TEMPORARY!!! - just for the Visa Application. Unfortunately the requirements for this type of Visa is to put a good amount of £ in the Isle of Man (BANK), HOWEVER THERE ARE NO INSTRUCTIONS WHATSOEVER WHAT TO DO WITH THE FUNDS AFTERWARDS, IT'S THE BUSINESS' CHOICE WHAT TO DO WITH THE FUNDS. (e.g. my decision)
4) Once my Passport is stamped with Business Visa, on that same day, or 2 days afterwards, doesn't matter, you get the idea, I am doing a wire transfer out of the Isle of Man to a safe bank for the company, a bank elswhere that is safe with protection from the government of its location. (Definitely not a UK or US Bank, oh no)
5) Taxes and income of course would be declared on the full income, just need to provide statements from the safe bank, I have no intention to break any law.

That's shady? yes
That's illegal? no
That's fair? I don't think what the government did is fair, and I have no intention of being good with someone who can't ensure anything for me.

Issues?

1) Risk - during all the times the money is held in the IOM bank, which should be approximately 20-30 days (I assume, I don't think it takes too long to get the British Embassy or whoever stamps the passport to process it all). I am aware that putting funds nowadays, even for 10-20 days for you is a risk, but I think it's a big exaggeration - don't you think? Unless you disagree - AGAIN THIS IS ALL TEMPORARY!! (20-30 days)

2) Life - I heard the Island is very boring, I assume I won't have much fun in the evenings or when I need to take a rest (although I am really intending to work approx 10 hours a day or more)

3) Issue of losing Visa? Nah... doesn't bother me. I don't think the whole suggestion above is illegal, and basically this isn't a military service where I need to feel obligated to government or something like that, I've never liked authority and it's hard for me to give respect to authorities.

4) Charity? I'd be happy if possible when pay tax to make the payment for the victims and not to the government, but I don't know if that would be possible, and it's also too early to talk about it now.

Basically that's it.
I hope you now all understand my intentions.


FOCUS NEEDED

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
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  • Wed, 11/02/2009 - 02:06

I cant believe everyone here is wasting time doling out financial advice to someone who sounds decidedly fishy Is this a wind up?

FOCUS !

Time is passing have you written to everyone of influence re OUR problem?

HOW TO GET BACK 100% or OUR SAVINGS !!!!!


I think your plan is

  • dawes
  • 24/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Tue, 10/02/2009 - 12:04

I think your plan is fine.

There is a big difference between being a depositor and running a business. Can you use any bank on the Island? if so, obviously use a UK bank as the UK gov has a history of bailing them out - even in the IoM - and avoid a non-EU bank.

The best bet would be a nationalised bank like NR or RBS.


Thanks for your comments. Do

  • investor6
  • 08/02/09 31/05/09
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  • Tue, 10/02/2009 - 13:31

Thanks for your comments.

Do you think Lloyds or Natwest on the Island would be a good choice? I'm quite skeptic about Barclays despite the fact they said they're in a good position.

I checked the HM Revenue site, it seems like being in the UK here and there even for more than 90 days a year isn't a problem.
I can't tell how much we will make but we've a plan to work on something online that many people don't work on at the moment, I just wish the tax I pay (if I pay) to the Island, will go for good purposes and to help the people in this site to get their money or some of it back.

Thanks again for your comments.
As far as the Island goes, how's the place? I have never ever been there before, but I heard it's quite a boring place. Is that so? I'm around my 26+ so I'm not sure if this is the best place for me to rest from work or something like that?


Llyods or Natwest would be

  • dawes
  • 24/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Tue, 10/02/2009 - 18:16

Llyods or Natwest would be fine, obviously NatWest is RBS which is majority public owned so its rock solid.

IoM is great is you are a biker, obviously and its pretty good for sports cars.

Other than that, they are famous for Kippers (and doing up depositors like one)


Hi Dawes, You don't see any

  • investor6
  • 08/02/09 31/05/09
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  • Tue, 10/02/2009 - 18:38

Hi Dawes,
You don't see any risk in the next 2-3 years with Natwest?
Unfortunately I'm not a biker, so there's nothing else to do on the Island besides biking?


Sheep? Joking aside, It

  • dawes
  • 24/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Tue, 10/02/2009 - 21:58

Sheep? Joking aside, It depends what you are interested in. Its a large island in the Irish sea with 80,000 people.

have a look here for instance

http://www.virtualtourist.com/travel/Europe/Isle_of_Man/Nightlife-Isle_o...

There will be no risk with any of the big UK banks, UK can get up to its eyeballs in debt but it won't default - the economy is far too important for the world.


Thanks again for your

  • investor6
  • 08/02/09 31/05/09
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  • Tue, 10/02/2009 - 23:36

Thanks again for your reply.
Looks like there are many pubs in douglas.
As for the banks if UK will never default then why some people said here they cut their deposits with bank of scotland in the island etc? just exaggeration then?


investor6

  • cottesmore
  • 21/10/08 16/07/12
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  • Sun, 08/02/2009 - 12:43

You would be better off going to Las Vegas!
At least there is a slight chance of winning when you, 'invest.'(and you may have some fun doing it!) As apposed to, 'investing' in the IOM and the only guarantee is,you will lose!


forward comment to IOM gov

  • chd
  • 13/10/08 30/09/09
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  • Sun, 08/02/2009 - 13:39

I think that I am going to e-mail this person's fears about IOM to all in IOM gov and treasury. It will let them know that word is quickly getting out that IOM is not a safe place to invest or do business. And it will be true if they don't give us back 100%.


person's fears about IOM

  • Anonymous
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  • Sun, 08/02/2009 - 14:26

People with funds in IOM banks are already starting to be very worry about IOM situation.

I am working in the Middle East and have contact with hundreds of expats that are living here.

Some of them have been following closely the news about this mess with KSFIOM and I know for a fact that they have already started last week to remove their funds from IOM. They feel that Middle East banks are safer than IOM.


Swiss, I am a genuine person

  • investor6
  • 08/02/09 31/05/09
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  • Sun, 08/02/2009 - 13:57

Swiss, I am a genuine person and if you need my support I'm here.

I've been communicating in the past with the IOM immigration and also with the UK Home Office for Visa requirements. It seems like the UK is trying to make it really hard on someone to apply (3 bank statements, enough funds, genuine business), same rules apply in the IOM.

Swiss, I have nothing to lose, I don't come in approach of fears what would happen if my Visa is refused, I have Panama, Costa Rica and so many other places to invest and do business, as my business is online and I can register it anywhere I want.

The story about what just happened is really encouraging me to cancel all the hard-work I put in the past 2 months for the Visa application, including expenses of £5,000 approximately but I'd rather lose £5k then lose my entire business.

I am truly full of doubts about investing in the IOM, my busines should go easily to the 6 figure in £ currency, and knowing that there is no security behind the banks in the Island doesn't encourage me further to trade there.

I am leaving up to a few more opinions. I'd like to hear from you what you have in mind.


IOM investor6

  • kandk
  • 02/11/08 31/05/09
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  • Mon, 09/02/2009 - 14:39

Investor6, please keep reading the tragic stories on this website to confirm you are doing the right thing in NOT investing in the Isle of Man. We want more of this,people to see what a shabby unprofessional financial centre this is. I have writen to the whole of the Isle of Man government, seperately and address the emails to them personnally and have had only I reply. Again this confirms the non-plussed attitude of the government. They simply couldn't care less about us and the more people that know this the better it is for would be investors. Please look after your money and go elsewhere. Good luck to you, make sure your money is safe.


IoM Business

  • manx-person
  • 17/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Sun, 08/02/2009 - 14:34

"as my business is online and I can register it anywhere I want."
You would be wise in that case to think about this carefully as there are opportunities for planning.
Is it a B2B or B2C business model?
Directive 2002/38/EC implements VAT for digital services which impact on anyone supplying digital services into the EU from outside the EU.
The IoM is the only country in the customs area with zero corporate tax.
There are however other members of the EC that have special arrangements for digitally delivered services, for example Luxembourg which has the lowest VAT rate in the EU for digitally delivered services.
If your business model is B2C then there are advantages in using places such as Luxembourg which would allow you to reduce the 'landed' costs of your goods.
VAT is a complex matter, but it is often based on place of supply. Careful structuring could mean establishing a presence in more than one jursidction.
You will not necessarily need to bank in the Isle of Man if this is a concern of yours.
There are also DTI grants available in the IoM for start up businesses.


manx-person, Thanks for the

  • investor6
  • 08/02/09 31/05/09
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  • Sun, 08/02/2009 - 16:03

manx-person,

Thanks for the advice.

1) I don't have to bank in the IOM, true, but the Visa requirement is having £200,000 minimum for investment, IN A BANK IN THE ISLAND, so what I can do is to deposit £200k in IOM bank for all the days that I'm applying for the Visa.
The day I get the Visa, boom, transfer all the funds to a safer bank located outside of the Island with 100% guarantee on the deposit, the Business will operate as usual just with the funds not in the Island.

The only risk involved is having the funds in the Island during all the days I'm applying for the Visa, I hope the banks there won't collapse in the next month, this is the only risk I'm taking.
The risk of losing my Visa is not a risk for me as I really don't give a damn about the UK or the Island.

2) You mentioned DTI grants - what is it exactly?


investor6

  • merlina
  • 26/01/09 01/06/09
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  • Sun, 08/02/2009 - 16:17

You do what you want to do but don't say afterwards you haven't been warned away from IOM.

Go to the Treasury Select Committee meeting on the 3rd February and listen to Tony Brown Treasury Minister - and then ask yourself would I trust this man with my money ?


Merlina, do you have a link

  • investor6
  • 08/02/09 31/05/09
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  • Sun, 08/02/2009 - 16:25

Merlina, do you have a link to youtube video of what he said?

And you say deposit in the Island even for 10-20 days is such a big risk? I don't know how long it takes to issue a Visa for Immigration but if you sound so skeptic then perhaps it's really better to stay away from the Island?

My intention is to keep the minimum funds required for the Visa application, I have no intention to keep the funds after my Passport is stamped, I hope you understand my intentions.


TSC video link

  • Anonymous
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TSC Meeting, audio

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
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  • Sun, 08/02/2009 - 16:43

I don't have the link for the video to hand, but the audio track is here - it's about two and a half hours long.


DTI Grants

  • manx-person
  • 17/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Sun, 08/02/2009 - 16:11

The big UK banks all have offshore arms; I would suggest you make your own enquiries, but think of the reputational damage to those banks of a sus not meeting their obligations - quite unlikley I think
There are grants for new businesses available from the Government.
Are you B2B or B2C
How many people will you employ?


I am sorry but I am not that

  • investor6
  • 08/02/09 31/05/09
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  • Sun, 08/02/2009 - 16:19

I am sorry but I am not that fluent with slang or with British English so I have no clue what B2B or B2C means.
I know that in the NBA in United States the term B2B means Back-To-Back, meaning a team that has just played last night have to play again today, but I'm pretty sure you're not referring to the NBA.

I have to emply 2 people at least according to the rules, although I don't really need employees this is a fair requirement that I am intending to fulfill throughout all the period of time of running the Business, as the purpose of this requirement is to be less-selfish and I'd be more than happy to pay some salaries to people in the Island, no doubt about that.

However, the banks no thank you, I am currently looking at banks with guarnatee for the Business, I hope I'd be able to find something valuable.


B2B and B2C

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
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  • Sun, 08/02/2009 - 16:50

Not really slang, quite common in business use of English language - business-to-business and business-to-consumer -- A supermarket is B2C, a management consulting firm is B2B. Some companies may be both, but that's relatively unusual.


I have no experience with

  • chd
  • 13/10/08 30/09/09
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  • Sun, 08/02/2009 - 14:13

I have no experience with doing business in the IOM, the only experience I have is with the banking system. My retired parents risk losing all their life savings - 900k. While every other government in Europe is making sure that depositors in the failed banks are being 100% reimbursed, the IOM government has been dilly dallying around for the past 3 months. We are no further than the day that the bank went into provisional liquidation. Unless the government steps up, and returns to depositors what is rightfully theirs, I cannot recommend this island for any kind of activity. If the IOM fails the Kaupthing depositors, the financial sector will be over, which means that all businesses will have it rough. Wait until you see results of this crisis. You don't have long, the next court hearing is on 19th feb I think.

If you want a safe place for business with good tax incentives, come to Switzerland.

Please understand my anger in all of this. My parents, like all other depositors, do not deserve what has been done to them. The IOM is not 100% to blame, but they have made lots of errors.


Swiss, your parents lost

  • investor6
  • 08/02/09 31/05/09
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  • Sun, 08/02/2009 - 14:36

Swiss, your parents lost £900k because of what happened?

I shall check the Switzerland's Visa Requirements.

I was thinking about investing the minimum £ in the IOM, in any bank, open another Business account for the company, once the Visa is approved and everything, just transfer all the £ in the IOM bank to a safe bank, thus have a IOM company with a bank outside of IOM.
If they don't like it they're always welcome to cancel my Visa, I've nothing to lose.


Investor6

  • merlina
  • 26/01/09 01/06/09
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  • Sun, 08/02/2009 - 15:54

Investor6 - It won't matter whether you invest minimum - Isle of Man has no money so even the minimum you will lose. Whilst they are fighting not to pay us - Isle of Man will collapse as a banking industry. My advice - stay away.


IOM down the pan

  • brennajm
  • 22/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Mon, 09/02/2009 - 11:45

Investor6, I entirely agree with merlina - stay away from the Isle of Man. You sound so confident about finding a safe bank - I don't believe such a thing exists at the moment! I have withdrawn my few remaining pounds from the IOM as I didn't want to lose any more money to them. However, I am not confident where it is now either - in the Abbey in the UK. Am trying to get it out of there in cash and will keep it like that till things get better. Surely things will improve in time!?


Run on the banks

  • sambururob
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Mon, 09/02/2009 - 13:19

As I have tried to explain in comments made on articles in the IOM News a run on the banks wil be unstoppable if the IoMG sit back and let it happen. Ex Pat investors will all look to withdraw cash from the island.
There is not a bank in the world that can pay out all its depositors if they all try to withdraw their deposits at once.
There is a great likelihood that all banks in the IoM will go down in a financial armaggedon if the IOMG stand back and watch KSFIoM depositors lose their money. The Northern Rock took approximately five days once the run started.
Once started the process cannot be stopped as more and more depositos realise their money is at risk and desperately try to withdraw - many will know the feeling from our experiences in the days prior to 8th Octrober - sheer panic !!


Merlina, read

  • investor6
  • 08/02/09 31/05/09
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  • Sun, 08/02/2009 - 16:07