New Hope??

  • investor6
  • 08/02/09 31/05/09
  • not a depositor
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Posted: Tue, 14/04/2009 - 12:51

Have you seen it?

http://www.lv.com/media_centre/news/archive/detail?detailid=1722&from=/m...

From February 09', I don't know if it's relevant or not??

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And this is from today 14

  • investor6
  • 08/02/09 31/05/09
  • not a depositor
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  • Tue, 14/04/2009 - 13:03

And this is from today 14 April:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/savings/5152174/Kaupt...

Kaupthing's Isle of Man savers to get their money back


Do the Maths

  • Mekong
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Tue, 14/04/2009 - 17:35

It is estimated that 54pc of depositors will get back all their money within three months under the scheme, while 76pc will have received 100pc within two years.

I dont know the true figures but I assume that 54% is equivalent to < 50 K and 76% relates to the up to 50K depositors so 2 yeaes for 50K.

What the article cleverly fails to mention is that 76% of depositors constitures less than 30% of overall deposits.

Statistics are fun, they can be manipulated to prove ones own given POV.

These are just Hyperthetical figures but I think is proves the point, IOMG are not lying but just manipulating the facts for good Spin!


Do The Maths Part 2

  • podather
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Tue, 14/04/2009 - 18:13

Exactly.

If 54% of depositors are paid out within 2 months then 54% of depositors must have less than £20,000
If 76% of depositors are paid out within 2 years then the other 22% must have between £20,000 and £50,000.

If you take the worst case that 54% had £20k exactly and 22% had £50k exactly and there are 10,000 depositors then 76% of depositors had £218,000,000 max.

That leave 24% of depositors with the remaining £672,000,000.

I suppose a headline that says something along these lines while portraying the truth would not have the impact IOMG are looking for.

Maybe we should do our own press release.


Agreed Podather

  • uptight61
  • 14/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 15/04/2009 - 04:38

Totally agree,
We should put out our own press release, show what a bunch of manipulating, conniving b******* the Isle of Man Govt are. As diver says, he wouldn't trust them as far as he could spit. I know how I'll be voting on the 19th - against the SofA - they can put their so called 150m where the sun doesn't shine. They plan on recouping it anyway from HNW depositors when 60% is reached. They really should be ashamed of themselves - and I think they really are


Do the Maths Part 3

  • cypheath
  • 01/11/08 30/10/09
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  • Tue, 14/04/2009 - 18:40

Even lowest value bond holders aren't in those figures either as I believe it will maybe take me 3years to get extra 10% (£2K) of a £20K deposit. Is that correct?


credibility gap

  • Anonymous
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  • Tue, 14/04/2009 - 18:12

I will say the same about IOMG as I do about the UKG.

Persons who are sincere do not intentionally put out misleading statements and, if they do so inadvertently, immediately correct them. Conversely, those who routinely make misleading statements are undoubtedly insincere and those who make a veritable industry of it are professional liars.


incredibility crap

  • chris watson
  • 23/10/08 31/03/10
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  • Tue, 14/04/2009 - 19:42

And those that are unintentionally insincere and put out true statements inadvertently, and then deny them, are un-mistakenly unprofessional routinist anti-liars.


Misleading hype in the press

  • Flower
  • 18/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Tue, 14/04/2009 - 13:47

Obviously these articles have been fed by IOMG's PR company and full of the usual misleading hype.


Veracity of IOM Government

  • Kevin Platt
  • 20/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 14/04/2009 - 16:53

Is it too ridiculous to assume that the IOM government's intentions are as stated in the article?

Surely if they prove to be lying no one will ever invest in the IOM again.

Also, if they reneige on their promises to the court will they not be held in contempt of their own court?


Dont judge an IOM court by

  • keving
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Wed, 15/04/2009 - 05:00

Dont judge an IOM court by your UK court standards.


And get some perspective

  • chris watson
  • 23/10/08 31/03/10
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  • Wed, 15/04/2009 - 05:40

Threatening IoM with a bank liquidation, meaning they'll have to bang open their cash register and pay us, is not the 'killer punch' some people around here seem to think it is. They are more likely to hit back with a 'sucker-punch' such as an unfunded, unprecedented DCS with no timelines for payment.

Ask yourself, if the IoM was really that worried about retail depositors, would they not come up with a better SOA rather than one they 'think they can get away with*?

The IoM may reach the conclusion they don't really care about retail banking in the future, as it is miniscule in terms of their overall business. They will state simply that they will guarantee deposits up to their (currently 50K) limit, and not over and above if, for whatever reason, a depositor exceeds this. This is also their current position.

And do not assume a liquidation on the IoM will achieve the same results, or is a 'well trodden path' like it is on the mainlands. It is not.


Chris, This is exactly the

  • expatfrance1
  • 15/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Wed, 15/04/2009 - 06:26

Chris,

This is exactly the approach that Guernsey have taken with Landabanki. They have inneffect said that retail depositors can take a running jump because their real business is institutional banking.

In the game of calling someones bluff you have to be pretty damn sure that your opponent is not goinh to take up the challenge!


Really

  • chipmunk
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Wed, 15/04/2009 - 15:53

If institutional Banking is important to them then why are they totally washing their hands of Life Companies and Bond Holders.....300 million tied up here and the Bond Holders have absolutely no mention in the SoA ..
Please correct me if Im wrong....but does anybody know where Bond Holders really stand today.....wish I did.


@ chipmunk

  • cypheath
  • 01/11/08 30/10/09
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  • Wed, 15/04/2009 - 17:17

Just got EPS2 confirmation from Skandia today which gives me back 50% but further than that I haven't got any idea if anything else will be forthcoming (possibly a further 10%, £2K) in 2/3 years if I'm lucky. Like you I've no real idea where we stand. Does anybody know?


@ Cypheath

  • podather
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Wed, 15/04/2009 - 20:11

If your EPS payment of £10,000 is half the value of your bond your in for a long slow ride I am sorry to say.

Because you dont qualify for any of the assurances of the DCS or SOA as a bondholder then your next payment will be the dividend that is declared once we reach in excess of 50p/£ - which is where you stand right now (having received effectively 50p/£ of your money back under EPS)

We are only scheduled to be at 30p/£ by June 2011 according to MS so the 60p/£ dividend (which will get you another £2k) might not be declared until 2013 ....if at all.

I know it is little consolation but had your insurance company not been allowed to claim EPS then you would not have received half your money back until around 2012/2013.

As I have said before returns to bondholders are at the discression of your insurance company so you may get some a little sooner should they decide to do so.
But they could have also withheld your EPS payment should they have choosen to do so.


@ Podather

  • cypheath
  • 01/11/08 30/10/09
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  • Wed, 15/04/2009 - 20:24

Thanks for that confirmation podather it is pretty much as I expected so my understanding in my case was about right. As you say EPS 2 has done me a lot of good & if I'm very lucky another £2K may come along in 3/4/5 years time. Thank god I deposited with the old IoM DCS in mind but still got caught out.