Loan trust proposal

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
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Posted: Thu, 30/12/2010 - 14:08

I am trying again to get it in the right place!

Loan trust proposal
Posted 29/12/2010 - 13:50 by anrigaut

HM GovernmentIOM goverenmentloan trustIn response to the question "who exactly is proposing a loan trust to the IOM?" posted by Bellyup as a News item (and thus not allowing comments), it seems a little clarification is in order.

The proposal of a loan trust is the result of the work done by DST during 2010 in collaboration with a professional campaign team whose services to date have been paid for by generous contributions from around 200 depositors registered on the www.ksfiomdag.com website. At the request of DST, an outline proposal is currently being drafted by lawyers via the campaign team and will shortly be sent to both the IOM and the UK governments and authorities on behalf of DAG.

DST are in regular contact and consultation with PPDG on initiatives, including the loan trust, and they are wholeheartedly behind efforts to have 100% of funds returned to all depositors and bondholders.

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Time to re launch 'Don't bank on the Isle of Man' Campaign

  • fight theft
  • 10/10/08 28/05/13
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  • Wed, 27/07/2011 - 12:23

Remember in 2009 and 2010 this was hurting the Isle of Man Banking deposits when it was within the top 5 of most Googled sites. Not that anyone of us want to waste any more of our energy and time ( I for one, I’m sure like many of you, still haven’t recovered from the burn out from this shocking and disgraceful situation). We now need to concentrate on re earning all of our losses so most cannot give this waste of space the IOM Gov and KSFIOM anything more , and I am sorry COI and Angela you efforts again are pearls before swine.

Maybe we should just re launch all of our old videos on U Tube etc just to create more visibility again. We cannot waste any more energy and time than this, but swamp the internet with these again – including bombard them with re launch the dear late ‘Jim for Justice’ attacks. ( Conned? If you are up to it). It was effective last time.
May these insensitive moronic bastards rot in Hell Bell, Tony Brown, and Anne Craig included - Here is toasting to the Banking collapse of the Isle of Man. May all insensitive inhuman negligent individuals finally get their just deserts.


NEW SCATHING DICTIONARY FOR THE IOM FOR YOUTUBE

  • conned
  • 13/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Thu, 28/07/2011 - 10:31

When we get enough words for the IOM dictionary, could we find a rapper to do a video for YOUTUBE. I am not at my best at the moment 1st of August being Peter's day. Others call it a memorial so perhaps someone could put some ideas together. Keep it clean but funny with a certain amount of bite. If not, I will put it together myself, hopefully next week.


Fight Theft is right.

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Wed, 27/07/2011 - 22:50

The time for reason is indeed past. We tried (as I still believe we had to) and were thwarted and ignored at every step. Their damage-limitation exercise (oops, sorry - Select Committee) has produced the required result. 'They' believe they've got away with it and are now patting themselves heartily on the back and proudly proclaiming their success. Totally and utterly nauseating.

What did they do for us? Nothing - absolutely nothing. Quite the opposite in fact. The fact that we are getting a highish trickle back has b..... all to do with anything that the IOM authorities have done to try and improve the situation for depositors.

All they ever cared about - and have worked very hard at - was saving face to protect their 'reputation'. Clanking Bell made that pretty clear from the start when he said in Tynwald on 9 October 2008 that they (Treasury) were "assessing how best to respond for the good of the island, its people, its reputation [as a financial centre] and its banking and other businesses and the people who work for them". No mention of the depositors. And they stuck to that determinedly from start to finish.

Peter & Louise are right that it will need coordination. Do we have any capable and willing volunteers?

Maybe someone should start a new dedicated forum for this - and if possible copy over the posts made here? I'd rather it wasn't me for once!


Public Denunciation of the IOM

  • peter and louise
  • 18/10/08 01/09/09
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  • Thu, 28/07/2011 - 12:13

Seems to me there is only avenue left and if we want some form of vindication, we are forced to go along it. It is the road that leads to a 'Humiliating and Public Denunciation Of The Isle of Man Government and the FSC.' That is, a letter, from the depositors of KSFIOM to the government of the IOM and the FSC, for the people of the IOM (who are about to go into their elections) and for people around the world (who are always looking at where to place their deposits). We already have the material, lord knows, millions of words have been toiled over for so long by so many with so little effect. It simply didn't work because we were casting 'Pearls before swine!' So, this time, all that is needed is an honest, factual, unemotional, unequivocal catalogue, a series of sentences, to hold up to the world to show how the IOM government and the FSC dealt with the KSFIOM disaster. I just read TonyC's blog and I think he has hit it on the head. That is the sort of thing, in my opinion, that might hit the mark. Something along the lines of '10 Reasons NOT To Bank On The Isle Of Man,' with unargueable examples and and undeniable facts. It is already there. We have the b....... on record. Perhaps the other site would be the place for the development and editing of such a declaration. I can add a sentence of my own from Aspden and how he answered me regarding the 'Parental Guarantee.' But then, someone has to edit it, bring it all together, have the final say on the finished version. Here, there perhaps has to be another poll to see who agrees with all this. All more work, but for whom? I reckon the declaration should be about 1000 words long. Why? Because it has to fit on the front page of newspapers. Which newspapers? All IOM newspapers and expat magazines and money magazines. And here lies the problem... will they print it, will the newspapers see that all is over for us and that this is our last chance for vindication? Do we have a good enough relationship with newspapers for them to help us in this way? I don't know. What I do know is that if we don't do it as a group, I will write and send off my own public denunciation to Tynwald, to the FSC and to all the papers, just for the record.


Don't bank on the IOM

  • tonycBrisbaneOz
  • 12/10/08 31/05/13
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  • Thu, 28/07/2011 - 02:59

I've put my few thoughts in a blog entry because I've also attached an image and there doesn't seem to be any way to attach images to replies.

http://chat.ksfiomdepositors.org/blog-entry/dont-bank-iom-dedicated-website

Regards, TonyC


DON'T BANK ON IOM

  • mikepapa
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Fri, 29/07/2011 - 16:05

Dear TonyC,

Just seen your excellent bog!

i'm of the opinion, "don't get mad get even" and after the disgraceful whitewash by the IoM Gov and their continued rejection of our Loan Trust Proposal, I certainly agree that we should get the Don't Bank on IoM campaign going again.

IMO - Keep it short, (10 good reasons would be enough) and publish it as much as possible.

Kind regards,

Mike


Don't bank on the IOM

  • tonycBrisbaneOz
  • 12/10/08 31/05/13
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  • Sun, 31/07/2011 - 12:58

Hi,

As I’ve sort of thrown together a few ideas I’m prepared to continue with a don’t bank on the IOM website as outlined.

I should say at the outset that I won’t have much time in August and September but will work on it when I can.

I’d prefer to keep the site fairly small and confined to quotes, minimal factual commentary and questions potential (and existing) depositors might want to ask themselves in light of what IOM officials have said.

This is what I think it should have:

Good quotes from the IOM politicians and FSC staff (current and former). The more negative the quotes the better. Negative campaigning works very well in politics, we should make it work for us.

The one quote I’d really like to find is the one about depositor education and doing their own due diligence that was uttered fairly early on in the piece, by either Cashen or Aspden (I think), because that’s what the site will be for.

All quotes must have a verifiable source

I’ve also expanded the DCS section a bit.

The DCS section needs a reference to the EU regulation about the speed of payments for depositors compensation schemes. I have seen it somewhere on an EU government related website.

A brief comparison between the UK and IOM schemes would be good together with all the boasting from about how good the IOM scheme is.

See my blog for more screenshots.

http://chat.ksfiomdepositors.org/blog-entry/dont-bank-iom-screen-shots

Regards, TonyC


..

  • follow_the_tao
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Tue, 09/08/2011 - 05:30

..


Agreed - an excellent idea.

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Sat, 30/07/2011 - 08:10

Agreed - an excellent idea.

Will try to fish out some quotes for Tony. But will need to sift through the mass of stuff on my desk. ...


We already have material!

  • peter and louise
  • 18/10/08 01/09/09
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  • Wed, 27/07/2011 - 16:38

Nick Campling's 'Don't Bank On The Isle Of Man' song is superb; the lyrics, the melody and the cartoon that accompanies it couldn't be better (perhaps the words regarding the 'Parental Guarantee' need changing in the light of latest developments). And there are 'Conned's' excellent videos too, already done. What is needed now is 'another' 'publicity/marketing' team who can ensure maximum exposure of this material and thereby allow all to see that 'Banking On The Isle Of Man Is Really Not A Good Idea At All.' Firstly though, Nick and 'Conned' must be asked if they agree to their material being used. Then, how to find a good publicity team?


NEW DICTIONARY FOR THE IOM FOR YOUTUBE

  • conned
  • 13/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Wed, 27/07/2011 - 19:02

I think we need new material, what we have has had a lot of exposure.
How about a new dictionary for the IOM ie
SHAME - antiquated word, long out of use
PIRANHA - population explosion in IOM, tears flesh from prey
MATHEMATICS - mythical concept where numbers can be used to mean anything.

I am sure you could all have fun compiling this without any hard work.
Then we can put it on youtube. I am sure we could make it hilarious.
Perhaps one day we shall see the Brown stuff hit the fan. As in Mr Brown
Lets get off our knees and sock it to them.


ONE FOR ALL AND ALL FOR ONE GET READY FOR ACTION

  • conned
  • 13/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Wed, 27/07/2011 - 15:38

Yes! Yes! and Yes again. I am up for it. Now is the time when they think we are beaten into the dust, to get up on our hind legs and bash the IOM where it hurts. I used to send about 100 emails every week to the IOM Government and various financial institutions and big business until a certain Detective Sergeant thought I should pack it in. Well what can they do to me? Having lost all that money, and my darling husband, (Jim 4 Justice), I am 70 yrs old and chronically sick. I can still pack a punch. None of this is of any interest to these cold hearted ignorant morons. Their time will come and I hope they end up in a care home.
Right! GET READY FOR ACTION. All ideas welcome. ONE FOR ALL AND ALL FOR ONE.

ARE YOU WITH ME?


Count me in.

  • peter and louise
  • 18/10/08 01/09/09
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  • Wed, 27/07/2011 - 13:59

Fight theft, you are right on all counts. The IOM government (and the FSC) have shown themselves for what they are; shameless and double-dealing. As such, to show them up to others for what they are, and what they did, would help others not to make the mistake we made. The people on the IOM, people over here and people abroad need to know to 'NEVER BANK ON THE ISLE OF MAN.' A campaign of public humiliation is what they deserve. Anrigaut (and a notable few others) have worked not just tirelessly, but nothing less than heroically, for years, fighting on our behalf for justice, vindication and for our money back. The manner in which they strove to fight for us was always thoughtful, intelligent, well-reasoned, (even sensitive to surrounding issues) and therefore impossible, one might think, for the IOM government not to take heed and act to ensure justice is done. But no, everything just fell on deaf ears. As you say, 'pearls before swine. We have been denied justice and that is NOT going to change. All that is left now is the vindication which will come when the cretins who inflicted all this upon us are hit where it hurts. Letters to editors will not do the trick though, after all, they have heard it all before. How many times can we say the same thing. It has to be something else. The question is: What?


Pearls before swine

  • Valentine
  • 18/10/08 31/05/14
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  • Wed, 27/07/2011 - 15:04

Well said FT - What a wonderful way to put it - pearls before swine.
I just feel it's a bit harsh to compare the poor old pig with those gobshites who run the IOM.
I've got things at the bottom of my fish pond which might be a more appropriate comparison.


KSF depositors' "extreme disappointment" ...

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Mon, 25/07/2011 - 15:05

http://www.isleofman.com/News/business/article.aspx?article=38027

KSF depositors' "extreme disappointment" over rejection of loan trust proposal

Date Posted: 25/Jul/2011 14:59
By: Bill Dale

THE action group representing KSF Isle of Man depositors has said it has “extreme disappointment” over a decision by Treasury Minister Anne Craine not to instigate a loan trust proposal suggested by the depositors.

A spokesman said today, “We find the reasons advanced for the Treasury decision wholly unconvincing and note with dismay Mrs Craine's view, expressed to members of the select committee on KSFIOM, that any such action “would now achieve little.” ”

Mrs Craine, in a written response to the group, said that some depositors not included in the loan trust arrangement “may well feel aggrieved and challenge the equity and legality of the proposal.”

She also pointed out that approximately 75% of depositors with KSF (IOM) Ltd have been fully compensated by the Early Payment Schemes and the Depositor Compensation Scheme. All other depositors and creditors with approved claims have received at least 73.6p In the £ from the liquidation.

She added, “The latest projected dividend outcome is expected to be between 91.4p and 97.7p In the £, dependent upon the final realisation of assets. Whilst lt is understood that depositors may have to wait until 2017 to receive the final dividend, the liquidator currently anticipates that virtually all assets will have been recovered by the end of 2014 and estimates that distributions could reach 80% by the end of 2011 and 90% by the end of 2012.”

However, angry depositors said today that Mrs Craine’s detailed reply to their request contained some “highly insensitive and offensive” remarks. They said that higher-value depositors and life company bondholders had been “abandoned to their fate”.

The depositors also said they wished to “contest most strongly” the Tynwald select committee's attempts to blame the collapse of the bank exclusively on the actions of the UK authorities, claiming KSFIOM collapsed “because it made deposits with a counter-party (KSF UK) which could not meet its liabilities.”

They added, “Accordingly, we are calling on Ms Craine to reconsider her position with regard to the proposed loan trust and to issue a statement correcting the inaccurate statements made to date with regard to the role of the IOM authorities in the insolvency of KSFIOM.

“Until that time, we remain committed to highlighting the unnecessary distress that the dilatory response of the IOM authorities has caused to innocent depositors and bondholders and to seeking to avoid a repetition of this state of affairs.”

Mrs Craine’s response concluded, “It is appreciated that the Loan Trust Scheme is presented as an outline proposal at this stage, however, in our experience of developing the KSF Scheme of Arrangement, which was not accepted, we believe that such a proposal would take a significant amount of time to prepare all the necessary documentation and to obtain the approval of all parties to the agreement.

“Documentation would need to take into consideration the legal and practical implications of the Isle of Man insolvency law and the Isle of Man Compensation of Depositor Regulations 2008 (as amended). I am led to the conclusion that the costs involved would be very high and not provide value for the taxpayer.

“The Treasury reached the overall conclusion that the Loan Trust did not offer "a simple, minimal cost and efficient solution to addressing this issue," and therefore the Isle of Man Treasury will not be progressing this proposal.”


Loan Trust: IOM response and DAG's reply

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Fri, 22/07/2011 - 16:40

The response of IOM Treasury Minister Anne Craine to DAG's Loan Trust Proposal (LTP) is now uploaded here: www.ksfiomdag.com/index.php?option=com_k...sk=file&file=260

In the continued absence of a definitive response from HMG (which we are still chasing), our reply was sent yesterday and is now uploaded at www.ksfiomdag.com/index.php?option=com_k...sk=file&file=259

Happy reading!


All done and dusted

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Thu, 28/07/2011 - 17:04

In case anyone had any remaining doubts about the intransigence, self-satisfaction and ability to twist the facts and deform all reasoned argument of the IOM Treasury Minister, the latest brush-off is uploaded here: http://www.positiveactiongroup.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=art...
(attachment at foot of page: IOMT 27 July 2011 ...)

If it wasn't so wrong, it would be laughable. She just doesn't get it - never did and never will and no doubt doesn't want to (how in any way shape or form does the LTP bear any resemblance to the totally useless SOA?).

I can only hope she lives to regret it.

Mind you, she does sound a bit rattled!


"diametrically opposed”

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Thu, 11/08/2011 - 08:24

Sorry folks for givng the wrong link in the post above ("all done and dusted").

The correct link, with updated correspondence between IOM Treasury Minister and DAG, is:
http://www.ksfiomdag.com/index.php?option=com_kb&task=article&article=161

Atachments available for download at foot of page:

  • IOMT 27th July reply to KSFIOMDAG

  • KSFIOM DAG 4th Aug. response to IOMT's letter of 27th July 2011

  • IOMT 10th Aug. reply to KSFIOM DAG letter of 4th Aug.

Anne Craine gets at least one thing right when she states "It is apparent that our views are diametrically opposed with regards to the relative merits of your proposal for a Loan Trust".

And with that she slams the door. Thanks Ms Craine.


Ann Craine

  • Julienne
  • 16/10/08 31/08/09
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  • Thu, 11/08/2011 - 19:39

I have never seen such a blatent brush off and total disregard for the facts as they are - - great letter from DAG and 3 lines from Craine - shameful and only goes to show how they adopt the "I'm alright jack" attitude. Wonder how she would feel if she had had a few hundred thousand in KSF IOM on Oct 9th 2008??


S&P

  • Lostinspace
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Mon, 08/08/2011 - 05:22

I didn't know whether to laugh or cry when I read in today's paper that the beloved S&P - fresh from downgrading the US - give their top AAA rating to 18 sovereign entities, including Australia, Hong Kong....and (wait for it), the Isle of Man!

Weren't these the shower that gave all those toxic subprime investments (pre 2008) their top AAA rating? Meantime, looking back at the infamous Aidan Doherty/KSF bumf, we were informed that Kaupthing Bank hf "was independently rated" by Moody's (Aa3) and Fitch (A) - yeah, right!

These credit rating agencies are a joke - about as credible as Arthur Daley on a good day....yet like obscene bankers' bonuses, they are still out there....


..

  • follow_the_tao
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Tue, 09/08/2011 - 05:32

..


Anriguat: you can't just click on the link, even if logged in...

  • follow_the_tao
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Sat, 23/07/2011 - 01:22

to DAG official site.

Have you been watching what's happened to E. Warren in the states?
She's got her integrity, so have you, these b******ds in tweed and brogues in the IoMG haven't.
My absolute contempt for the behaviour of the IoMG knows no bounds (maintaining my restraint).
No wonder people want to believe in St Peter sitting at the gates.

Light relief: you might like this.. who knows...
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/07/how-algorithms-shape-our-world.html


Thanks ftt for the

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Sat, 23/07/2011 - 16:29

Thanks ftt for the thought-provoking light relief.

Was unaware of the E. Warren story. Apart from the Tour de France, news here is concentrated on the Greek debt crisis and the Murdoch empire phone-hacking scandal.


..

  • follow_the_tao
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Tue, 26/07/2011 - 04:20

..


Corrected links to IOM Treasury letters

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Sat, 23/07/2011 - 06:41

Sorry about the links (incomplete).

These should work:

Letter from Anne Craine:
http://www.ksfiomdag.com/index.php?option=com_kb&task=file&file=260

Our reply:
http://www.ksfiomdag.com/index.php?option=com_kb&task=file&file=259


COI statement re loan trust 29 June 2011

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Wed, 29/06/2011 - 10:13

The following statement from the CoI just posted on KSFIOM website, with links to the proposal and the letter to IOM Treasury:
http://www.kaupthingsingers.co.im/Pages/2011/June/29June2011.asp

The Committee of Inspection wish to make the following statement.

Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander (Isle of Man) Limited’s (KSFIOM) Committee of Inspection (CoI) notes the recent proposal issued by the KSFIOM Depositor Action Group for the establishment of a loan trust sponsored by the Manx and UK governments. On the basis that the costs of its implementation are borne by the respective authorities (and not by other creditors of KSFIOM), the majority of CoI members commend the loan trust proposal to the relevant authorities as an expedient and low-cost method of swiftly ending the uncertainty and delay in returning retail creditors’ funds in the bank to them.


COI support for Loan Trust

  • D RAM
  • 13/10/08 01/08/14
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  • Thu, 30/06/2011 - 14:45

Why only the ",,,, majority of COI members ..." ? What are the reasons for the other members not supporting the loan trust proposal ?


..

  • follow_the_tao
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Tue, 26/07/2011 - 04:21

..


Loan Trust

  • barrona
  • 17/11/08 31/05/09
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  • Mon, 20/06/2011 - 09:18

Can someone provide an update as to where we, the depositors, stand re thye loan trust proposal?
Hasd there been any feedback from either HMG or the IoM?


Loan Trust situation

  • Tricky Dicky
  • 24/10/08 30/05/09
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  • Mon, 20/06/2011 - 18:20

We have had a response from IOMT which to be honest was as expected ie they will not do anything as they believe they have done nothing wrong and that the UK are 100% to blame for the KSFIOM disaster. We have a response ready to return to them but are presently awaiting HMG's viewpoint, which we hope to receive by the end of the week

TD


loan trust

  • cottesmore
  • 21/10/08 16/07/12
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  • Sat, 16/07/2011 - 10:36

still no news then?


re loan trust

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Tue, 19/07/2011 - 17:27

Our advisers are still chasing HMT/HMG for a formal response but have been unable to tie them down to a meeting date and time, being repeatedly put off with excuses that there are other ‘priorities’, such as the hacking scandal, Libya, etc...

We are at least as frustrated as anyone with this delay and are now redrafting our response to IOMT in the light of recent events.

An article was published some while ago based on information obtained by expatmoneychannel via direct contact with IOMT:
http://www.expatmoneychannel.com/content/iom-treasury-rejects-call-loan-...
Two comments submitted at the start of this month have only just been published as (we are informed) the editor was on holiday. You may wish to add to these - but note that they are moderated.


loan trust

  • cottesmore
  • 21/10/08 16/07/12
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  • Sun, 10/07/2011 - 09:08

still no news after a further 3 weeks!


Shame on the IOMG

  • hopeful
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 23/06/2011 - 14:12

How can the IOMG believe they are completely innocent in this disaster. Whilst HMG are partly to blame IOMG should me man enough (excuse the pun) to admit that their own financial regulating body were negligent in supporting KSFIOM's decision to transfer that very large proportion of the banks funds to their sister bank in London prior to the collapse.

In view of the fact that our liquidators are now forecasting a very high return at the end of the day proves that KSFIOM's business was in good shape prior to HMG's intervention in October 2008. Consequently am I correct in suggesting that if those funds had not been transferred to the sister bank in London there would have been no reason for IOMG to put KSFIOM into administration and then liquidation in the first place. If this is the case surely IOMG should put their hands up and accept that they are partly to blame.


Re Shame on IOMG

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Thu, 23/06/2011 - 16:10

Indeed.

You are correct. The fact that the bank would have been saved had those funds not been transferred to KSFUK in London was clearly acknowledged by all parties in the evidence given to the Tynwald Select Committee, but carefully (IMO) omitted from the Conclusions in the Interim Report. As was the fact that the funds were transferred despite the FSC Board's resolution in May 2008 that exposure to the Kaupthing Group (ie not simply Kaupthing hf in Iceland) should be eliminated and that John Aspden effectively admitted there had been a compromise or 'watering down' of the resolution. But no - the conclusions lay all the blame outside the IOM.

We have repeatedly pointed this out, including in the DAG Response to the First (Interim) Report of the Select Committee - to which we have had no response (despite requests for one). It is also strongly recalled in the letter to IOMG which we have ready to send.

But all that falls on deaf ears.


IOM's response to Loan Trust Proposal

  • bdsa
  • 10/10/08 02/06/13
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  • Tue, 21/06/2011 - 13:03

I think it's time to reactivate the "Don't Bank on the Isle of Man" campaign


IOM response

  • Tricky Dicky
  • 24/10/08 30/05/09
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  • Wed, 22/06/2011 - 10:22

Perhaps it is time to resurrect the campaign of:
"Dont bank on the Isle of Man" - or even start a new one called perhaps

"Freedom to Flounder" in place of their PR campaign "Freedom to Flourish"

Especially in light of the info researched today:
‘Treasury entered into arrangements with CinemaNX Ltd in August 2007 to advise and manage investment of the Media Development Fund. During that period from August 2007 to date, Treasury has approved investment into 13 projects totalling some £33,887,401.

‘The income received during this period attributed to the CinemaNX projects totalled £6,267,575.’

She [Anne Craine] said that in relation to the 84 film projects produced before CinemaNX, the total expenditure on approved investments had been £132,812,505 while the income receipts attributable to these films amounted to £61,947,287.

So the IOM is prepared to lose circa £100 million in chasing its floundering 'film industry' but does not appear to want to spend a penny on KSFIOM depositors

TD


Loan Trust

  • Jean-Charles Marlier
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Mon, 20/06/2011 - 15:45

That's the same question I asked Anrigaut only a few days ago,but did not get any reply.
But then she was away on vacation,so might not be available to comment right now.


Evening Standard article 31 May 2011

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 31/05/2011 - 13:04

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-business/article-23955051-islande...

This article was published following an call today from Lucy Tobin. Needless to say, the inaccurate title and reference to 11,000 'islanders' were not supplied by DAG and we did not see the article pre-publication.

Islanders' plea to Osborne over Icelandic bank losses
Lucy Tobin Lucy Tobin
31 May 2011

Depositors in the collapsed Isle of Man subsidiary of Iceland's Kaupthing Bank today called on Chancellor George Osborne to respond to their pleas for financial help,

Some 11,000 islanders saved up to £840 million in the Manx Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander bank. In April, they wrote to the Treasury and the Isle of Man government with a proposal to create a joint loan trust to help depositors receive funds before the 2017 deadline when the bank's liquidator estimates it will make final payments.

Around 73% of returns from the liquidation of KSF (IoM) have already been paid out to savers, but Richard Carter, spokesman for the Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander Depositors' Action Group, said many depositors had put their pensions and funds from house purchases into the bank, and could not afford to wait another six years for the rest.

Final recovery from the liquidation is expected to be 98p in the pound, so Carter said paying that in advance via a loan trust was a small price for the UK and Manx governments to pay to enhance their reputations as financial centres.

"We're calling on the Government to give our proposal full consideration. Setting up the loan trust would be the moral thing to do."

Carter added: "This loan trust initiative is a low cost and efficient device that speeds up the return savings to needy pensioners and victims of regulatory incompetence. The IOM government, quite reasonably, say that responsibility for this case is shared with HMG on the mainland. For some reason, when HMG breathes down their neck they say 'don't worry, we will sort it out' and then fail to do so, claiming they cannot afford the resources. Westminster's Treasury Select Committee has pointed out that when you look at the undiluted facts behind this case, both governments bear responsibility and this is something that needs to be gripped."


Thanks to Adam in New Zealand

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 01/06/2011 - 19:48

Thanks to Adam in New Zealand for adding an excellent comment to this article to couteract some of usual the inane comments on greedy tax evaders and dodgy businessmen.

Maybe a few more like that wouldn't come amiss. They probably won't help, but can't do any harm - and who knows ... ?

You need to register on the site and then be a little patient for your comment to appear. I posted yesterday afternoon and nothing appeared until this morning. But it did appear eventually.


loan trust

  • cottesmore
  • 21/10/08 16/07/12
  • a depositor
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  • Sat, 07/05/2011 - 10:33

Has there been any aknowlegement from either IOM goverment or the UK goverment regarding the loan trust proposal?


LT

  • Tricky Dicky
  • 24/10/08 30/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sat, 07/05/2011 - 12:54

No there has been no acknowledgement as yet from either government.
What is required is for members to write to their MP's and ask them to support this proposal by raising the issue with HMT and HMG. What this will do is raise the level of the proposal within the government who in turn will need to chase up the IOM.
Political action will move this proposal forward, so dont be fobbed off by your MP keep pushing them to ask what is being done with the proposal within Whitehall departments


Link to iomtoday article - correction

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sat, 23/04/2011 - 08:07

Sorry - the link given earlier to the iomtoday report on the issue of the LT proposal was cut. The full link is here:

http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/isle-of-man-news/depositors_in_call_for_n...


iomtoday: Depositors in call for new loan trust

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 12/04/2011 - 15:22

In iomtoday 12 April 2011
Link and COMMENTS here:
http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/isle-of-man-

"THE Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander Depositors’ Acton Group has written to Treasury Minister Anne Craine MHK and the UK Government with a proposal on how depositors could immediately receive the full balance of their funds.

The letter, sent by Richard Carter, on behalf of the group, calls for the creation of a joint UK and Manx Government Sponsored Loan Trust.

The group believe it would enable higher-value depositors and bondholders of the collapsed bank to immediately receive the full balance of their funds.

The letter says many of the depositors put substantial sums of pension money into the bank, which collapsed in October 2008, and ‘can ill afford to wait until 2017 to see the return of the major part of their savings’.

It was also sent to UK Chancellor George Osborne MP and the Secretary of State for Justice Kenneth Clarke MP, who has responsibilty for the Crown Dependencies.

The letter says: ‘Our proposed Government Sponsored Loan Trust delivers a simple, minimal cost and efficient solution to addressing this issue, without exposing either Treasury to onerous financial commitments.

‘Over two years on from the bank’s insolvency, returns from the liquidation of KSF (IoM) are expected to reach 73 per cent in the near future, with a final out-turn of 91-98 per cent, disregarding claims in connection with the on-going litigation surrounding the parental guarantee, and are predicted to be paid over seven years since the commencement of liquidation.

‘This document has been developed with lawyers to ensure its deliverability and viability.’

The group believe the proposal could enhance both the reputation of the Isle of Man as an offshore financial centre and the UK and Manx governments at minimal cost.

It was assumed KSF (IoM) customers’ deposits would be protected under a guarantee offered by the parent bank in Iceland, Kaupthing hf.

Last month a court in Reykjavik rejected a claim by KSF (IoM) under this guarantee, ruling that the guarantee, although signed by the chief executive officer of Kaupthing hf, was never authorised by the Kaupthing board.

Final recovery from the liquidation is expected to be 97p in the £1."


Press Release

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 12/04/2011 - 07:08

See http://www.ksfiomdag.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10...
for the press release issued yesterday following the issue of the Loan Trust proposal.

A short public announcement contining the links to both the documents and the press release is also posted on the home page of the ksfiomdag website (currently under "Top News"): http://www.ksfiomdag.com


Loan Trust proposal issued !!

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sat, 09/04/2011 - 11:41

The Loan Trust proposal was issued on Thursday 7th April to the UK Treasury and Justice Ministers and to the IOM Treasury Minister, with copies to other key parties. A copy has also been sent to the Tynwald Select Committee.

The document and covering letters are now in the public domain and may be downloaded here: http://www.ksfiomdag.com/index.php?option=com_kb&task=article&article=161

As explained at the head of this thread, this proposal was developed by DST with the assistance of a professional advisory team and their lawyers. It has the full support of the PPDG committee, who made useful conributions to the covering letter - for which many thanks.


Am I correct in my

  • ianw
  • 14/10/08 n/a (free)
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 10/04/2011 - 10:10

Am I correct in my understanding that depositors would be refunded 100% of capital and interest up to a maximum of 5%? Also, a cost of £20 mio is mentioned. Does this imply a projected return by the JLs of ca. 98% (given that ca. £9 mio = 1% return?) Or does £20 mio represent the cost of financing the bridging loan?

Ian


The 5% interest cap is based

  • frog
  • 10/10/08 13/09/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 12/04/2011 - 13:49

The 5% interest cap is based on IOM Liquidation rules (if recoveries are in excess of 100%).

WRT to the IOM rules though, I would wonder whether the 5% also could be challenged as this is a liquidation of a bank and not a business as such, where creditors possibly sold in goods and hadn't received payment (so there is a notional value of loss to the supplier as he already has built in margin into the sales price). I would expect that the IOM Govt. would be more inclined to let the remaining proceeds, if any go to the depositors as payment against their agreed interest rates (if over 5%) rather than sending it to Iceland!

If the PG is enforced, then that 5% is not relevant - there probably would be a whole other legal chase to find out what the interest paid on the missing monies should be if the PG is enforced!The logical number would be continuing the agreed interest rate on the bond/deposit - or a flat LIBOR+ number.

Lets get to 100% first though!


The LT proposal is of course

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 12/04/2011 - 07:00

The LT proposal is of course just that for now - it is and can only be - a discussion document. If the principle is accepted there will no doubt be negotiation on the detail. That said, our baseline proposal is for 100% return of outstanding capital - and does not include interest. It is difficult to imagine we could achieve more than that. However, this does not mean that any claims to interest would be lost in the event of recovery in the liquidation exceeding 100%, as explained below in a 'layman's guide' to the key points of the proposal, which I should have posted before and which should help to clarify how it would work.

The figure of £20m is a rough ball-park estimate - and was based on the situation prior to the latest dividend. The calculation is also more complicated than you suggest because much of the predicted shortfall - that for under £50k depositors - is already covered by the DCS (and should eventually be paid by the bank levies). I forget now exactly how the £20m was arrived at, but a quick back of the envelope calculation suggests it may represent a return of more like 96%.

I hope that helps.

The key points covered by the proposal are as follows:

  • The Trust would be funded by loans from the UK and IOM governments, secured against the Trust and its assets.

  • Individual depositors would have the choice of participating in the Loan Trust Scheme (LTS) or remaining directly in the liquidation (or the DCS) as at present.

  • The LTS would provide for an advance payment (effectively an interest free loan) of 100% of outstanding ‘capital’ (amount equal to the currently approved claim in the liquidation).

  • Participation would require an assignment of rights to the Trust. This would be “by way of security” only, to cover the amount advanced. Once the secured liabilities have been discharged (ie when the Trust will have recovered the amount advanced), depositors would be entitled to receive whatever amount of interest becomes payable in the liquidation (in the event recovery exceeds 100%).

  • Specific arrangements would need to be made for depositors whose rights are currently assigned to the DCS and who wish to participate in the LTS.


Time for us all to assist in this noble quest?

  • grapow
  • 20/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 12/04/2011 - 12:29

I have been in touch with my (former as I now live in Spain) MP Liam Fox albeit via his quite officious PA. I copy below my note to her this afternoon. As I see it, lobbying of influential parts of the Westminster process cannot do any harm at all. Would be great if every minister in House of Commons were to receive similar pleadings for support?

Copy follows:

Good afternoon Mrs Douglas, it is some time since we have communicated and I trust this finds you and Dr Fox very well, and enjoying his massive elevation in status. You may recall that we were victims of the collapse of KSF brought about by the collapse of the Icelandic banking system in October 2008. Matters have progressed albeit slowly since then to the extent where we now have received back circa 70% of our deposit via the liquidators.

However, the maximum return is not likely before 2017. In response to this a proposal has been made to the UK & IoM Governments to provide a loan trust to facilitate a much earlier return, this would have practically zero cost to both Governments but have a massive benefit on several thousand UK taxpayers. Bearing in mind the assistance given to the Icesave depositors by the UK Government and also the fact that key accountabilities for the demise of KSF IoM must lie with some or all of the under-mentioned, we are looking for maximum and top level support from our elected representatives and certainly much more than we have received so far:

UK Government of the day in 2008

FSA – London

FSC – IoM

IoM Government

Whilst being appreciative of Dr Fox’s substantial responsibilities at a difficult time for the Government, we nonetheless would ask that he gives maximum support in Westminster to this proposal.

To assist your understanding, below is a copy of an article which has appeared in an IoM online publication this week:

Depositors in call for new loan trust

Published on Tuesday 12 April 2011 12:51

THE Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander Depositors’ Acton Group has written to Treasury Minister Anne Craine MHK and the UK Government with a proposal on how depositors could immediately receive the full balance of their funds.

The letter, sent by Richard Carter, on behalf of the group, calls for the creation of a joint UK and Manx Government Sponsored Loan Trust.

The group believe it would enable higher-value depositors and bondholders of the collapsed bank to immediately receive the full balance of their funds.

The letter says many of the depositors put substantial sums of pension money into the bank, which collapsed in October 2008, and ‘can ill afford to wait until 2017 to see the return of the major part of their savings’.

It was also sent to UK Chancellor George Osborne MP and the Secretary of State for Justice Kenneth Clarke MP, who has responsibilty for the Crown Dependencies.

The letter says: ‘Our proposed Government Sponsored Loan Trust delivers a simple, minimal cost and efficient solution to addressing this issue, without exposing either Treasury to onerous financial commitments.

‘Over two years on from the bank’s insolvency, returns from the liquidation of KSF (IoM) are expected to reach 73 per cent in the near future, with a final out-turn of 91-98 per cent, disregarding claims in connection with the on-going litigation surrounding the parental guarantee, and are predicted to be paid over seven years since the commencement of liquidation.

‘This document has been developed with lawyers to ensure its deliverability and viability.’

The group believe the proposal could enhance both the reputation of the Isle of Man as an offshore financial centre and the UK and Manx governments at minimal cost.

It was assumed KSF (IoM) customers’ deposits would be protected under a guarantee offered by the parent bank in Iceland, Kaupthing hf.

Last month a court in Reykjavik rejected a claim by KSF (IoM) under this guarantee, ruling that the guarantee, although signed by the chief executive officer of Kaupthing hf, was never authorised by the Kaupthing board.

Final recovery from the liquidation is expected to be 97p in the £1.

Graham & Linda Powell