Legal implication of Kaupthing taking over Derbyshire IOM

  • sami
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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Posted: Tue, 28/10/2008 - 13:20

There is an important legal implication as I see it. I'm sorry if this has already been covered in the threads, but I will mention it in case it has not.

When we [most of us] held deposits in Derbyshire IOM, we would have been covered by the UK's 100% bail-out facility, that has been offered to savers in the IOM banks owned by UK parents, should Derbyshire IOM have experienced the same problems Kaupthing IOM has.

Since our bank, Derbyshire IOM, has been taken over by Kaupthing Hf, we are at a total disadvantage, given that UK is not protecting our savings.

Given that the terms of the takeover by Kaupthing Hf prevented us from withdrawing our funds (in the case of Bonds), do the legally-minded people on this forum feel that disadvantage alone, being so crucial, offers a substantial argument, (a) for action against Derbyshire, and (b) recovery from UK government?

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breach of contract

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Tue, 09/12/2008 - 05:00

Sami, I think Derbyshire broke an agreement with you. When you deposited your money with them, a condition was UK bailout. When The Derbyshire sold out to KSFIoM, it should have been on at least the same level of security. When the condition of UK bailout disappeared, The Derbyshire breached the agreement it had with you. It was incumbent upon The Derbyshire to impose at least the same terms and conditions on the company succeeding to your deposit.
I have no legal training. Do not act on my thoughts.


The Derbyshire

  • upthecreek
  • 26/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 14/11/2008 - 11:42

Graham Picken has replied to me three times now, but i have always sent my letters by Special delivery expensive, or recorded delivery about £1.00 per letter but at least he cannot say he never received it. Other way is proof of posting receipt, that cost no more post office gives you a receipt, but no one has to sign for it.


The Derbyshire

  • upthecreek
  • 26/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 14/11/2008 - 11:38

Contact your MP and ask for his help in this matter, explain the situation, what date you took it out, and any paperwork to substanciate that etc. Where did you see the ad by the Derbyshire, and have you any copies of that? another person has said that in November they were actively marketing that the Derbyshire was still up and running when in fact the FSC in the IOM say that they were informed that of the sale to KSF bank on the 19th November 2007 the transfer going through 21st December 2007, so it would be interesting to know when did they open your account?

What were you told by the Derbyshire staff etc. If you are overseas, contact the MP for the area that you used to live in, at the end of the day your moneies probably have been earnt here and you will have paid taxes here. And you may return to your home country where your family still resides. Its all part of the picture. All MP's contact details available on google. I have had good resposnes from MP's I have contacted, I have had Better results from normal letters and i useually fax them the same letter as well, than emails.


email to Derbyshire CEO

  • nivit
  • 19/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 12/11/2008 - 09:08

I sent this by email a couple of days ago and haven't even had an acknowledgement perhaps I’ll do better with the snail mail version i sent at the same time?

Dear Mr Picken,

We wish to complain that as customers of the Derbyshire Offshore we consider that we have been unfairly treated By the Derbyshire Building Society in that:

  1. My wife and I opened a fixed rate bond account in November 2007. A product which was being actively promoting by Derbyshire Offshore at a time when the Derbyshire Building Society’s negotiations of the sale of Derbyshire Offshore to Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander IoM were far advanced if not finalised. That is to say that we were led believe that we were entering into a twelve month arrangement with the Derbyshire Offshore when that was patently not the case.

  2. When the Derbyshire Offshore wrote to us and told us of the sale we were not offered the possibility of closing our account or even moving our deposits to the Derbyshire UK. and on telephoning to ask if we might close our accounts we were told we could not and we thus became de facto depositors with Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander IoM against our wishes.

As a result of the actions of the Derbyshire Building Society we have lost a considerable proportion of our savings and I believe the Derbyshire Building Society has failed in its duty to treat us fairly as it is required to do by the F.S.A.

I would therefore ask you what the Derbyshire Building Society intends to do to compensate us for our losses.


The Derbyshire

  • upthecreek
  • 26/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 14/11/2008 - 11:26

We took out a simualr bond out with The Derbyshire monies transfered to them on the 23rd November 2007, it was due to mature they say the 30th Nov 2008.

We are Interested to know what date you took yours out.

They never mentioned to us that they were selling out and i spoke with them several times about the savings and how safe it was, before we put it with them. The must have know at the time that it was up for sale or already sold as these things do not happen overnight.


upthecreek was the imminent

  • nivit
  • 19/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 08/12/2008 - 22:39

upthecreek was the imminent sale to KS&F mention when you took out your bond?


Another Derbyshire Manx Bond Victim Waiting for News

  • VikingRaider
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 04/12/2008 - 16:08

You're not alone -- One Year Manx Bond Nov. 2007. Hope that Derbyshire Telegraph drags the DBS Board over the coals on this.


14th november 2007. I could

  • nivit
  • 19/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 14/11/2008 - 11:45

14th november 2007. I could phone you and chat about it if you have a land line


email to Derbyshire

  • steve
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Wed, 12/11/2008 - 14:14

Mr Picken will be heartily sick of getting letters like yours, so keep sending 'em!!! You will get a reply, but if it is like the second one I got, it will have an air of exasperation about it. The Derby Evening Telegraph are about to print what I think will be a devastating story about this whole sorry mess - look out for it on their website.


Still no answer did I say

  • nivit
  • 19/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 14/11/2008 - 10:53

Still no answer did I say something wrong?


Vague and pretty useless reply

  • Yoda
  • 21/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Wed, 12/11/2008 - 13:52

Finally got a reply from the Derbyshire.....

Thank you for your email.
The current position, as we understand it, is that KSF has applied for the company to be wound up and a provisional liquidator has been appointed. The hearing of the petition, however, has been adjourned to 27 November 2008. We would strongly recommend that you contact the provisional liquidator to register your interest and obtain more detailed information. He is Michael Simpson of Pricewaterhouse Coopers, 60 Circular Road, Douglas, Isle of Man, IMI ISA.

During the period that Derbyshire Building Society (“The Derbyshire”) owned Derbyshire Offshore, The Derbyshire was required by the Financial Supervision Commission in the Isle of Man to guarantee the liabilities of Derbyshire Offshore. This undertaking only applied whilst Derbyshire Offshore remained a subsidiary of The Derbyshire. Consequently, on completion of the transaction, The Derbyshire guarantee no longer applied and was replaced by a guarantee from Kaupthing Bank hf.

We believe that there is up to date information available on The Financial Supervision Commissions website (“The Commission”) at www.fsc.gov.im including statements from both the Icelandic and British Governments about Kaupthing Bank hf’s ability to honour its guarantee. There are also details of the Depositors Compensation Scheme available on The Commission’s website if an event of default is declared.

We hope that this information is of some assistance to you.

Regards

Member Office

Not very sympathetic or even pretending to be vaguley interested


Bond group that were not permitted to cash out

  • Daughter
  • 17/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Sun, 09/11/2008 - 03:23

Why don't all the bonds holders who were not allow to cash out when the nasty cod fishing bank caught us in it's net's get going on this very fact.

From reading the posts it would seem most of us would have preferred to move to a different bank at that time.

Any comments?


Derbyshire BS UK

  • sad
  • 10/10/08 31/10/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 09/11/2008 - 03:04

Mr Sad here, Mrs Sad making tea with our much used last tea bag......

Do any of the members of the forum have either, accounts or know people who have accounts with the Derbyshire UK? If there are I would encourage you write to the Derbyshire CEO and tell him you are moving your deposits (or are encouraging your friends and family) because of their involvement in the situation in the IOM.

Not sure if there are enough of us to make a difference but will make me feel better when we close ours...


Derbyshire responsibility

  • wodehouse
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 06/11/2008 - 14:25

Thanks to those who have posted the contact address for Derbyshire chief Alan Woods. This is my second comment on the scandalous behaviour of the Derbyshire in passing on locked-in bondholders to a less than solid organisation. Glad to see that there are plenty of other indignant folk out there. How can you sell on a customer's trust in you without at least giving the customer the chance to assess whether trust in its new recipient is justified? 'Sorry, I can't babysit for you this evening, but I will arrange a new sitter for you, on condition you don't try to meet him/her until after you get back home at 11 tonight.'


Setting up a Derbyshire group

  • arny
  • 15/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 04/11/2008 - 20:15

Would others be intersted in setting up a Former Derbyshire Investors Group?


Derbyshire - Next steps

  • Daughter
  • 17/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 07/11/2008 - 04:22

Absolutely!
Let's get going on this one. The angle of the british Building Society selling out its clients who had bonds that could not be cashed out is so very wrong. How was this allowed?????


I'm in

  • iak1655
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 07/11/2008 - 07:51

I was also with them 10 years and have the misfortune to have one of their bloody bonds


Yes. Count me in.

  • Podcar
  • 13/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 06/11/2008 - 16:04

Yes. Count me in.


Derbyshire offshore- victims alliance group

  • jamjar
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Thu, 06/11/2008 - 15:50

My wife and would certainly join this proposed group,we were acc holders for 20yrs or more.


Derbyshire group

  • Monkeyface3604
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Wed, 05/11/2008 - 10:54

I would be in on that one. My dad had saved with them for years before the sold out to Krapthing.


Setting up a Derbyshire group

  • deevee
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 05/11/2008 - 10:52

Good idea . Do it .


Derbyshire

  • Yoda
  • 21/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Wed, 05/11/2008 - 10:15

Hi! Sorry just got on this thread - but has anything been decided with regard to the Derbyshire????
Shall I write too - I wasnt sure whether there was any benefit - but to be fair - I feel like Ive written to everyone else in the world!
It is a f..... outrage how we have been treated - our money has been sitting in the Derbyshire for 12 years - and yes, we have always paid tax on it!!!

So....any plans, that I have missed out on - and if I write, to which address has anyone had any replies too??????

Keep up the pressure - surely someone must listen??


Derbyshire

  • steve
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Wed, 05/11/2008 - 10:51

Yes there are loads of threads on here about Derbyshire, just type in "Derbyshire" in the search box. and yes, write to the CEO, Derbyshire Building Society,Duffield Hall,Duffield,Derbyshire, DE56 1AG. If you really want to wind yourself up, go onto their website and see how pleased they are and how much money they made dumping us onto Kaupthing.


And you get.............

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 06/11/2008 - 17:20

A pathetic reply that appears to have been written by a robot on a low battery.


Derbyshire dumping

  • Yoda
  • 21/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Wed, 05/11/2008 - 13:56

Hi!
Thanks - probably dont need to be any more wound up than I am!!
We had money with the Derbyshire for 15 years - never dreamt it could all end up going .... up.
I will write to them now - thanks for the address.
Also just written to Gordon Brown advising him that we are not all tax dodgers but that we have been paying tax for years on all of our savings.


Has he got an email address

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 05/11/2008 - 10:57

Has he got an email address please?


Derbyshire email

  • steve
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Wed, 05/11/2008 - 11:04

He probably has, but it is not on website. Try customerservices(?)thederbyshire [dot] co [dot] uk, but I would write a letter if I were you


Derbyshire: Don't Blame Us, Guv: It's Kaupthing wot Dunnit!

  • VikingRaider
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Thu, 06/11/2008 - 16:29

Launch the Derbyshire/Nationwide Group. As the Derbyshire works towards consolidating its takeover by the Nationwide in December, it is anxious to keep us at arms length, but I have a sneaking suspicion that Nationwide is worried about the whole Derbyshire-KSFIoM imbroglio. This is what I sent to and received from Derbyshire BS.

Dear Sir/Madam

Just a note to imform you that after considerable lobbying of MP's, the House of Commons has scheduled a debate on the Kaupthing, Singer and Friedlander (Isle of Man) Ltd. collapse and that the misfeasance and negligence of the Derbyshire Building Society in transferring the undertaking to a deeply troubled bank will be discussed in depth. Your senior executives may now have a chance to earn the whopping bungs they received from the Nationwide for acquiescing to the takeover -- although the Nationwide might have second thoughts. Please pass this note to the board of directors.

Dear Dr. X

Thank you for email.

I confirm that your comments have been passed to the Chief Executive.

The current position, as we understand it, is that KSF has applied for the company to be wound up and a provisional liquidator has been appointed. The hearing of the petition, however, has been adjourned to 27 November 2008. We would strongly recommend that you contact the provisional liquidator to register your interest and obtain more detailed information. He is Michael Simpson of Pricewaterhouse Coopers, 60 Circular Road, Douglas, Isle of Man, IMI ISA.

During the period that Derbyshire Building Society (“The Derbyshire”) owned Derbyshire Offshore, The Derbyshire was required by the Financial Supervision Commission in the Isle of Man to guarantee the liabilities of Derbyshire Offshore. This undertaking only applied whilst Derbyshire Offshore remained a subsidiary of The Derbyshire. Consequently, on completion of the transaction, The Derbyshire guarantee no longer applied and was replaced by a guarantee from Kaupthing Bank hf.

We believe that there is up to date information available on The Financial Supervision Commissions website (“The Commission”) at www.fsc.gov.im including statements from both the Icelandic and British Governments about Kaupthing Bank hf’s ability to honour its guarantee. There are also details of the Depositors Compensation Scheme available on The Commission’s website if an event of default is declared.

We hope that this information is of some assistance to you.

Regards

Member Office

Interestingly enough, in the 'International Banking' brochure sent to explain the transfer of Derbyshire Offshore, the Questions and Answers section Q2 on page five reads, in part, 'Additionally, the Bank (KSFIOM) is authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority for UK mortgage business'. A smoking gun if there ever was such as thing!


Derbyshire investors group

  • steve
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 04/11/2008 - 22:05

count me in


Derbyshire IOM Sell Out

  • grobbers
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 04/11/2008 - 17:44

I attache some correspondence I have had with Derbyshire UK:

Dear Member Office,

Thank you for your reply below.

I would point out that the depositors compensation scheme on the IOM is a joke. Whilst all banks registered there are liable for annual payments to the scheme no money was in fact collected. Even The Derbyshire got away with contributions.

Myself, along with thousands of other ex Derbyshire depositors, now face very large financial losses. This all came about because you sold out to a less than solid organisation. I do not feel you can hide behind credit ratings. The writing was evidently on the wall at the time you were negotiating the sale. Any business organisation worth their salt must have been aware of pending problems.

In simple terms all these problems have arisen since Building Societies surrendered their Mutual status and tried to play the game of an "investment bank" along with many High St banking names. The average person wants a steady, trustworthy place to deposit their funds. If one wishes to gamble then the stock market is there or proper investment banks.

When the sale was announced I advised Kaupthing IOM that I wished to withdraw all my funds. I was then contacted by telephone by Aiden Doherty of Kaupthing who gave all sorts of assurances all of which proved to be a pipe dream.

All trust has been lost on the altar of mammon.

I think the Derbyshire would do well to become more involved in taking up the cudgel on our behalf, even if this only means heavy lobbying of the UK Government. Yesterday the Treasury Select Committee met and as expected Darling and Co washed their hands of all responsibilty. There is a very vociferous depositors web site and if you could spend a little time having a look at it you will find frequent mention of The Derbyshire. The consequences of this will have a ripple effect and unless our just demands are not met the offshore centres around the UK will undergo meltdown. London and the wider financial industry will also suffer a significant loss of confidence.Whilst we may appear small in numbers there are many well connected people amongst us. This together with family, friends, business contacts etc means there is a much wider spectrum than appears at first sight.

Yours sincerely,

"Member Office" schrieb:
Dear Mr

Thank you for your email.

I confirm that your comments have been passed to the Chief Executive.

The current position, as we understand it, is that KSF has applied for the company to be wound up and a provisional liquidator has been appointed. The hearing of the petition, however, has been adjourned to 27 November 2008. We would strongly recommend that you contact the provisional liquidator to register your interest and obtain more detailed information. He is Michael Simpson of Pricewaterhouse Coopers, 60 Circular Road, Douglas, Isle of Man, IMI ISA.

During the period that Derbyshire Building Society (“The Derbyshire”) owned Derbyshire Offshore, The Derbyshire was required by the Financial Supervision Commission in the Isle of Man to guarantee the liabilities of Derbyshire Offshore. This undertaking only applied whilst Derbyshire Offshore remained a subsidiary of The Derbyshire. Consequently, on completion of the transaction, The Derbyshire guarantee no longer applied and was replaced by a guarantee from Kaupthing Bank hf.

We believe that there is up to date information available on The Financial Supervision Commissions website (“The Commission”) at www.fsc.gov.im including statements from both the Icelandic and British Governments about Kaupthing Bank hf’s ability to honour its guarantee. There are also details of the Depositors Compensation Scheme available on The Commission’s website if an event of default is declared.

We hope that this information is of some assistance to you.

Regards

Member Office


Derbyshire's reply to Grobbers

  • sami
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 04/11/2008 - 19:31

This reply to Grobber's letter has to be an example of the most pathetic response I have seen.

I think the empty rhetoric shown in this letter gives some indication that Derbyshire are unwilling to confront the issue and spell the matter out clearly, further showing that they fear the matter is not clear-cut. If they were confident they had no obligation, morally or legally, they would simply reply to you...

"Dear Grobbers, Sorry but we do not believe we have an obligation to defend your situation as a former depositor".

Instead they hide behind a set of pointless statements about dates of liquidation and details of liquidator, absolutely none of which you have asked for in your letter.

I most certainly think we ought to pressure this organisation further to obtain some compensation for selling us into a third-rate banking system. I now see more clearly what happened when Derbyshire sold the IOM operation: it could have given customers the option to withdraw and find a new bank. However in doing so, it would not have attracted the same sale value for the operation. Therefore by making it impossible for customers to close down notice-accounts, they gained a better price for their business.

This is a fact - that's what they did.

And what result has this in turn gained? A higher proportion of customers not having any choice, but to become customers of a doomed banking operation.

It really stinks. We should highlight this issue to the press.


Derbyshire reply

  • steve
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 04/11/2008 - 20:01

The Derby Evening Telegraph ran a piece on this tonight (there is a link on this site somewhere) so at last they have got hold of it, though they gave them exactly the same glib response I got, but I am keeping at them


Derbyshire IOM sellout

  • steve
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 04/11/2008 - 18:52

Don't let them get away with that load of rubbish, keep at them. Write a good old fashioned letter to the CEO: feelings against the Derbyshire are gaining momentum. There was a piece in tonights(4th Nov) Derby Evening Telegraph (there is a link to it on this site somewhere.) I keep hammering at the Derbyshire, if we all do it we will at least embarrass them into taking a more pro-active part. Go onto their website- they are cock-a-hoop about unloading us onto Kaupthing. It is sick making.


Takeover of Derbyshire Offshore by KSF in December 2007

  • Expat13
  • 19/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 03/11/2008 - 16:47

I agree with Sami that the takeover of Derbyshire Offshore by KSF IoM did not allow depositors to liquidate their assets without penalty before or after the transfer.
although Derbyshire obviously had the right to get out of the offshore banking business, they did not in my view have the right to expect depositors to transfer their funds to KSF IoM.
What the Derbyshire Offshore did in effect was to throw its depositors to the wolves by transferring their assets over to KSF
Since I personally had misgivings about the transfer I contacted both the Derbyshire Offshore and KSF IoM on the matter. I got a personal phone call from Aidan Doherty the Managing Director of KSF reassuring me that my assets would be safe with KSF IoM. So much for parental guarantees and assurances.

Expat13 (Ontario, Canada)


Aidan Doherty

  • softlad66
  • 10/10/08 27/04/11
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 03/11/2008 - 18:14

My wife and I had already agreed to transfer our money out when we received Kaupthing's take-over letter last year. I immediately emailed Kaupthing/Derbyshire to make them aware of our misgivings. The very next day I got a personal phone call from Doherty; very impressed we were! Got the same bullsh*t as you did. Should have realised he was ringing up everyone to save a run on the bank - that's me - softlad.

With regard to Derbyshire I think at the very least they should make a small contribution to the IoM compensation fund from the profits of the sale - ₤840mill should do the trick!!


David9 is correct. The

  • Minotaur
  • 15/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 28/10/2008 - 17:03

David9 is correct. The offshore Northern Rock is fully covered only because Northern Rock is now owned by the British Government. Only if Derbyshire had been taken over by the Govt. in the same way (and that was then an exception) would we have got more protection than the (then 15K) IoM guarantee.

I have a rather different grouse. I had a fax/phone facility set up for my Derbyshire account. That was not a term deposit, just an ordinary savings account. When I transferred my Derbyshire account to a KSFIoM 32-day notice account, I was told that the fax/phone facility would be taken over as well. This I did telephonically, so I have no record of it. Yet, when on 29th September, when things started to look worrying, I phoned and asked to close the account I was told I could only do so by letter; that there was no phone/fax facility on the account; and that they did not even have the details of my mainland bank which I had supplied to Derbyshire IoM.

In any case, I had no internet account, and thus have no idea whether my letter ever arrived, or was acted upon. I am awaiting confirmation on that. It won't help much; but it would be useful to know whether or not I am one of those people with frozen in-flight transfers.

I would be very doubtful if there was any legal responsibility on the Derbyshire's part for anything. Their parental guarantee would have been just as useless if the Derbyshire UK had gone under, unless of course the Govt. had decided to nationalise it; but that is now theoretical and will get us nowhere.


Derbyshire Transfer

  • hounter
  • 02/11/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 03/11/2008 - 16:29

I had two letters sent to me dated 20th November on the transfer of the bank, in the same envelope issued by the Derbyshire IOM - notification of sale from Derbyshire BS with a phrase stating " please read the letter and brochure enclosed from Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander in the Isle of Man"

Nowhere in any of these three documents was there ever even a mention of Iceland specifically, let alone this being the base of the ultimate parent.

Consequently many depositors have not even made the connection, indeed for myself this was made only yesterday on1st November.

This was clearly a gross omission of a imaterial and relevent fact, one that was either negligent or at worse, intended to deceive. And such was a misrepresentation by a Derbyshire employee in the IOM sent on behalf of the Derbyshire BS in the UK for the purposes of discharging of their UK responsibility and for gain.

Are there any others who believe that a legal action could made in this respect, one to put jointly and severally to the Derbyshire BS in the UK, both for direct damages/losses when these are incurred and are quantifiable, but also (and this can begin to be claimed immediately) for the indirect damages such as mental trauma and distress.

If either negligence or an intent to defraud can be upheld then there are no limits to compensation and neither companies or individuals can hide behind limited liability.

Such an action could well then help support the wider cause to make the UK Government more appreciative of the consequences of their actions - especially when they see another UK institution being fiscally implicated in this debacle.


hounter you say..."Nowhere in

  • mikeinfrance
  • 12/10/08 28/09/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 06/11/2008 - 15:04

hounter you say..."Nowhere in any of these three documents was there ever even a mention of Iceland specifically, let alone this being the base of the ultimate parent"

This also seems to be the case when Kaupthing took over Singer & Friedlander (IOM)..no mention that Kaupthing was an Icelandic bank,and no mention of the change of parentage from UK to Iceland, furthermore the bank continued to trade as Singer & Friedlander for some 18 months after it had been taken over by Kaupthing ie between July 2005 and Jan 2007.

Out of interest when exactly was the Derbyshire taken over by KSFIOM ?


Derbyshire takeover

  • steve
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sat, 08/11/2008 - 12:42

The first letters came out dated 20 November 2007. It was all wrapped up sometime December 2007. I have a letter dated 7 December 2007 concerning Electronic Payments still on Derbyshire headed paper.


Derbyshire

  • steve
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 03/11/2008 - 17:17

There is quite a bit of comment on the Derbyshire throughout this site (it is a bit fragmented) If you haven't already done so, write to the CEO, Derbyshire Building Society, Duffield Hall, Duffield, Derbyshire DE56 1AG, especially if you took out a long term bond October or November 2007.


Status of KSF IoM

  • Expat13
  • 19/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 03/11/2008 - 17:05

Reply to hounter

According to Question 8 on the last page of the KSF brochure the Kaufthing Group is referred to as a European Bank which is misleading in itself. I think we should go after Aidan Doherty who obviouslt OK'd the KSF IoM brochure and the Derbyshire Building Society who obviously hood winked depositors into believing the KSF was a safe bet. The Chairman of the Derbyshire Building Society by the way is an Alan Woods and can be contacted at the Derbyshire Building Society, Duffield Hall, Derby, DE56 1AG.


Analogy with Northern Rock

  • sami
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 28/10/2008 - 17:12

Yes, I see. You've clarified the point there - the difference being that Northern Rock IOM is now owned by the British Government.

But with regard to your telephone/fax instruction with Derbyshire, I think you have a very valid issue to persue. If it were possible to prove that Derbyshire had not passed on your agreement for phone/fax arrangements, then you could hold them responsible. But in reality that would be very difficult to prove, and therefore the mistake probably would appear to lie with Kaupthing, making your claim against them just as effective as all the other claims...


Sami

  • Ramsey resident
  • 22/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 03/11/2008 - 16:36

Northern Rock has no presence on the IOM and never has had - incorrect information


Derbyshire IOM

  • steve
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 28/10/2008 - 16:39

I agree with sami, I too think that those of us who took out Derbyshire term bonds at least have a moral case against Derbyshire. I am trying to get a reply from them on this very point: that we did not choose Kaupthing, they were forced on us but I suspect that legally they are bulletproof. Life ain't fair, but I shall not give up


Derbyshire -

  • Daughter
  • 17/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sat, 01/11/2008 - 15:32

Steve I am right there with you on this very valid point.


Derbyshire

  • steve
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 03/11/2008 - 12:37

There have been many comments over the last few weeks about the Derbyshire, and they are all over the place on this site, so it is difficult to follow what people have done and how many people are affected. I really am hoping for some kind of breakthrough at the TSC meeting this afternoon but am not holding my breath and we must keep all options open. In my case, I think the Derbyshire Building Society should be held to account for those depositors who did not have a choice about Kaupthing. If you took out a fixed bond with them during October and November 2007 for one or more years, then surely you have at least a moral case. Outside of this time frame, you would have had a choice because you could either have cashed them in, or you would have known that Kaupthing were now your bank. I am pursuing the Derbyshire on this point, and have posted my first reply from them on this site. I have tried to get my MP involved, as the Derbyshire BS is in his constituency, but he does not want to get involved. I know there are a number of very disgruntled ex-Derbyshire out there and would ask that we keep at them. I don't think it is a waste of time; I can't just sit back and await events unfolding. Regards to you all


Ex Derbyshire depositor

  • deevee
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 28/10/2008 - 17:13

I agree with Sami and Steve and I am very interested to see Derby BS reply . As a UK resident and offshore depositor I was reassured by DBS parental guarantee which at the time I considered to be virtually as good as the UK FSC compensation scheme . Even though our deposit was made less than a month before DBS sold out to KSFIOM we received no prior warning or option to withdraw . Effectively we were forced to accept the new arrangement and as subsequent events have shown we have been seriously disadvantaged . DBS owe us morally ethically and financially and they should not be allowed to walk away from their duty of care . To a degree they are responsible for our plight and therefore they are accountable It would be interesting to know how many other depositors share our particular circumstances .


I don't think so

  • David9J
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 28/10/2008 - 14:11

One of the IOM residents may correct me, but I don't think that the IOM banks with UK parents are covered by the UK depositors protection scheme. I also bank with Lloyds TSB IOM and they have told me specifically that they are not covered by the UK scheme, only the IOM scheme. Also Lloyds TSB parent in the UK have not provided Lloyds TSB in IOM with a parental guarantee. I am having a serious thoughts about whether to move my account!


Parental guarantees

  • Devastated
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 03/11/2008 - 16:12

I don't think many of the IOM branches of UK High Street banks have parental guarantees. I checked with Barclays weeks ago and found to my surprise that they are not covered by UK.


Parental Guarantee

  • Dougie
  • 22/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 03/11/2008 - 14:02

Hi David, i also bank with the Bank of Scotland International (IOM) i have been told by the Bank in the UK that my money is safe this was done by e-mail a few weeks ago, you know have me a bit concerned.
As you will be aware LLOYDS TSB is taking over Hbos, i assume that the same rules will apply when the takeover goes ahead or will i then be under LLOYDS rules.