Latest Posting on Bank website

  • Anonymous
  • unspecified
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Posted: Wed, 29/04/2009 - 20:23

Thought it might be worthwhile to draw your attention to the latest posting by Mike Simpson ---

Progress of Administration of Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander UK Limited (In Administration) (“KSFUK”)
On 20 April the administrators of KSFUK provided a six monthly progress report, updating the information provided at the creditors’ meeting held in December and calling for the submission of claims.

See this link for detail-
http://www.kaupthingsingers.co.uk/Pages/4080

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Is this the MS document?

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
  • a depositor
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  • Sat, 02/05/2009 - 12:59

When was the account set up?
The account was set up on Monday, 6 October 2008 following a Supervisory Notice issued by the Financial Services Authority to Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander Limited on 3 Friday, October 2008.
How much money is in the account?
As at the date of administration on 8 October 2008, £147,436,226.05 was held in the account. No monies were paid into the account after 7 October 2008.
Is the account interest bearing?
Yes, the account is interest bearing at a floating rate calculated by reference to the base rate of interest published by the Bank of England.
Why has the existence of the account not been announced until now?
The Financial Services Authority (the FSA) issued a First Supervisory Notice on 3 October 2008 requiring Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander Limited to set up the account. The First Supervisory Notice contained a confidentiality provision. The FSA lifted the confidentiality restriction recently to allow issues concerning the Account to be decided by the Companies Court. The Joint Administrators informed the creditors’ committee of the matter as soon as the confidentiality restrictions were lifted and continue to keep the creditors’ committee informed of any developments. The Joint Administrators have applied to the Companies Court to determine how monies in the Account should be distributed, so consider it appropriate to inform creditors about the Account and the steps being taken by the Joint Administrators.
How do I know whether my monies were put in the account?
The account only contains certain monies paid into KSF in the period from 2 October 2008 until 7 October 2008. If you placed monies in your account between those dates it is possible that they were placed in the account; any funds placed in your account prior to that date will not be in the account. The question as to who is entitled to the monies in the account is complex and accordingly the Joint Administrators have applied to the court for directions as to who the monies in the trust account should be paid to.
When will the monies in the account be paid out?
We are unable to answer that question at the moment. The issues relating to the account and who should be entitled to the monies in it raise difficult legal issues. Consequently, the Joint Administrators have applied to the court for directions as to whom the monies in the trust account should be paid. The Joint Administrators are working to achieve a resolution of the issues so as to be able to pay out the monies to the people who the court determines are entitled to it as promptly as possible. The issues raised are complex and will need to be considered by the Companies Court in detail. The Joint Administrators are working with all the parties to fix the date for this hearing at the Companies Court. The Joint Administrators are keeping the creditors’ committee informed of any developments and provide updates as and when it is appropriate to do so. When the Court has determined who is to be paid the monies, the Joint Administrator will publish further information on the website which, if relevant, will deal with any mechanisms of claim.
I am a Kaupthing Edge customer. Can I get monies from the trust account?
The Joint Administrators have applied to the court for directions as to whom the monies in the trust account should be paid. The answer to this question will depend on the outcome of the court decision. In any case, all Kaupthing Edge customer accounts have now been transferred to ING Direct N.V.
I am a creditor of Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander Limited (in administration) and am eligible to claim compensation from the Financial Services Compensation Scheme. Will I get money from the trust account?
The Joint Administrators have applied to the court for directions as to whom the monies in the trust account should be paid. The answer to this question will depend on the outcome of the court decision and we are unable to answer this question at present.
I am a creditor of Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander Limited (in administration) and am eligible to claim compensation from the Financial Services Compensation Scheme (the FSCS). Can I claim from the trust account instead of from the FSCS?
The Joint Administrators have applied to the court for directions as to whom the monies in the trust account should be paid. The answer to this question will depend on the outcome of the court decision and we are unable to answer this question at present. Customers who are eligible to claim compensation from the FSCS should apply to the FSCS.
I am a creditor of Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander Limited (in administration) and am not eligible for compensation by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme. How can I claim the trust monies?
The Joint Administrators have applied to the court for directions as to whom the monies in the trust account should be paid. The answer to this question will depend on the outcome of the court decision. When the court has determined who is to be paid the monies the Joint Administrator will publish further information on the website which, if relevant, will deal with any mechanisms of claim.


Re: the posting by Mike Simpson

  • Anonymous
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  • Sat, 02/05/2009 - 14:17

As I mentioned previously on this thread, the two items I extracted were from a M.S. posting on the KSF dated 28 April 2009. As you can see if you click on this link, the last posting now shown is for 24 April 2009
http://www.kaupthingsingers.co.uk/Pages/4076

The 28 April 2009 posting has been withdrawn. However, the extracts can still be seen below within this thread.


As Swiss says below, it was

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sat, 02/05/2009 - 13:42

As Swiss says below, it was not this (which looks like an extract from the minutes of the KSFUK creditors' committee meeting?). But it did contain a (less detailed but explicit) reference to the matter discussed here concerning this trust account of which MS said KSFIOM had only just become aware (due to the confidentiality clause) and in which they clearly have an interest.

The MS update which has vanished indeed also contained his latest upper and lower estimates of the dividend from KSFIOM, from 74% to 89%. I don't see why they should have been withdrawn (and by what right could IOMT withdraw anything from KSF's website?) as they are the same figures used for the famous graphs in the Explanatory Note (74%, 85% and 89% for the 3 scenarios shown).


No, it was the one where

  • chd
  • 13/10/08 30/09/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sat, 02/05/2009 - 13:25

No, it was the one where Mike stated potential dividends. He expects the low number to be 74% and high 88% The IOMT probably pulled the posting, since this makes their claw back at 70% look quite measly.


@swiss document MS

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
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  • Sat, 02/05/2009 - 13:44

Thanks Swiss, maybe there are two docs though looking at he posts below...

Anyway, the 74% / 88% is no secret, the returns on the £120K and £250K Scheme Claims are projected to be a low of 74% and a high of 89%. They have sent this information to every depositor I think, so it's not likely they pulled this posting off the website for this reason.


Latest Posting on Bank website

  • Codpeace
  • 23/10/08 30/11/12
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 30/04/2009 - 21:31

Has the page been withdrawn? I tried the link but cannot get to the page let alone the spreadsheet.

Anyone know what has happened?


This link worked for me

  • frog
  • 10/10/08 13/09/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 30/04/2009 - 21:50

Thanks, frog

  • Codpeace
  • 23/10/08 30/11/12
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 30/04/2009 - 22:01

but it isn't the same link that I got to before that has the paragraphs shown in postings below. There was a reference to an attached spreadsheet as well. It seems to have disappeared...


Ah, sorry - didn't read the

  • frog
  • 10/10/08 13/09/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 30/04/2009 - 22:43

Ah, sorry - didn't read the mail properly - thought you couldn't get to the site at all.


Codpeace, you're right, the postings by M.S. have been withdrawn

  • Anonymous
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  • Thu, 30/04/2009 - 22:43

The 28 April 2009 posting on the KSF bank's website has been withdrawn. The two extracts which I've shown below were pulled from that posting. I know several other depositors also saw the full writeup as indicated below. Why it was pulled is anyone's guess.


Did anyone save the MS posting on April 28

  • rapata
  • 13/10/08 03/08/09
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 01/05/2009 - 22:05

I also read this update, its very suspicious now that it had been removed. Is this yet more information that is being withhled or suppressed from us.

Did anyone save the full text of this update, if so please post in its entirety on the site.


Why did MS withdraw the posting??

  • Pat
  • 10/10/08 30/11/12
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 01/05/2009 - 00:34

Very suspicious? Why would he do that????


Withdrawn MS posting

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sat, 02/05/2009 - 08:38

Have you noticed that MS's updates (apart from the initial press release on the KSFIOM site) are housed on KSFUK web-site? My guess (as also suggested elsewhere by elgee) is that MS committed a faux pas and revealed something the administrators of KSFUK did not want made public yet and that they (not MS) simply deleted his post asap from their site. This could explain why he apparently told frog he didn't know why it had been removed.

I too saw it, but unfortunately didn't print or copy it. But I would imagine the 'problem' concerned the information about a FSA directive on 2 (?) October - which someone has reproduced below.


Probably because of...

  • Anonymous
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  • Fri, 01/05/2009 - 07:58

....the missing spreadsheet link


MS withdrawn latest post???

  • Codpeace
  • 23/10/08 30/11/12
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 01/05/2009 - 11:30

It still is not available - What is MS trying to supress???


Segregated Trust Account

  • Anonymous
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  • Wed, 29/04/2009 - 20:40

I found this posting of Mike Simpson to be of particular interest --

"The Administrators advise that a First Supervisory Notice was issued by the FSA on 3 October 08, requiring a segregated trust account to be opened by KSFUK with the Bank of England in which KSFUK were to place deposits received from its customers from 2 October onwards. The Account held £147m as the date of Administration of KSFUK. The FSA required that the First Supervisory Notice was kept confidential to assist in the smooth administration of KSFUK and as such I would confirm that KSFIOM have only recently become aware of the account. The Administrators have applied to court for directions as to how the monies in this account should be distributed. I confirm that KSFIOM, as a customer of KSFUK, is a representative party to those proceedings in respect of the following category of Account Holders of KSFUK – those on a true construction of the First Supervisory Notice in respect of whom KSF ought to have transferred money to this account in respect of the relevant period but did not do so. As the matter is subject to ongoing proceedings, I am not in a position to disclose more at this point."


undone - segregated trust account

  • fight theft
  • 10/10/08 28/05/13
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 30/04/2009 - 00:30

Undone - I don't how you got this important information, but post it prominantly in a "Forum" topic - make sure DAG Strategy Team has the info and make sure this important post does not get buried. Thanks for sharing some better news.


That info has been available

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 30/04/2009 - 05:25

That info has been available for many weeks, it always surprised me that nobody wanted to talk about it here. It is actually the first real evidence that the FSA had a hand in this, by starving KSF UK of funds they helped in its demise. In fact I mentioned it one one of many letters to various Ministries and MPs weeks ago. If you email me I might have more info that could open this up a bit. On the other hand I might have no more that MIke S on the subject, but I do think its unclear about who are the 'owners' of this money.


Re: Potential Dividend from KSFUK

  • Anonymous
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  • Wed, 29/04/2009 - 20:55

Mike Simpson's posting also indicated -

"Given the information provided recently by KSFUK, we have sought on the attached spreadsheet to set out an estimate of the dividend range that might be paid in due course in respect of KSFIOM. This is based on certain assumptions and our current estimates of what may be recovered in respect of the assets of KSFIOM and current estimates of liabilities of the Company. It illustrates that on a Low Case basis the dividend that might be payable is c.74p in the £ and on a High Case basis might be c. 88p in the £."


Att spreadsheet??

  • JS
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 30/04/2009 - 05:11

Did you see any attached spreadsheet? I couldn't see it.


Spread sheet??

  • Julienne
  • 16/10/08 31/08/09
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  • Thu, 30/04/2009 - 09:46

I also looked for the attached spread sheet - no where in sight...

Perhaps a question for the next call to MS


Spreadsheet attached to Mike Simpson's Update of 28th April

  • D RAM
  • 13/10/08 01/08/14
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 30/04/2009 - 14:41

I emailed Mike Simpson's office immediately on noting it is not attached to his Update of 28th April. Hopefully he'll rectify this omission asap.


...so with the low-ball

  • frog
  • 10/10/08 13/09/09
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 29/04/2009 - 22:22

...so with the low-ball number at 74%, one of the major benefits of the SoA as advsed by Mike Simpson is now gone - that is the benefit of the IoMG not taking out contributions until 70% and the scheme being beneficial if the recovery didn't meet 70%.


Low Ball Number ( 74% )

  • D RAM
  • 13/10/08 01/08/14
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 30/04/2009 - 15:00

Please be sure to raise this with Mike Simpson at tomorrow's conference call. But I bet he says there is no certainty even to the low ball 74%.

By the way is it the case that IOMT will recover all of its money immediately after 70% ? And hence there are no further payments to depositors unless / until IOMT gets full recovery ? Or is IOMT recovery staggered ? (Hopefully the last IOMT recovery being once depositors recover 100%. ).


It is the latter - once 70%

  • frog
  • 10/10/08 13/09/09
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  • Thu, 30/04/2009 - 19:26

It is the latter - once 70% recovery is achieved, the IOM Gov get their return up to 70% and then get dividends pari-passu with the remaining creditors.