IoMG - what you make of it..

  • skintagainnow
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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Posted: Mon, 19/01/2009 - 15:20

Set aside the emotions and concentrate on the reality

Pro's & cons,

Liquidation & DCS

Pro's -

some form of initial payment from PWC probably around 10% (10p in the £) within the next couple of months, payment from DCS unknown

<£50K will be paid in full - timescales unknown

liquidation is governed by statute

con's -

PWC will hold onto huge reserves at all times to ensure all fees are met

Fire sale of loan book with associated fee's probably means around 15>20% actual liquid recovery

Liquidators work on %'s (eg. lets say 10% for recovery - £200m back from UK - PWC cut - £20m)

SOA

Pro's -

Payments have to at least match those of traditional liquidation & DCS
We know nothing else that can be added here

Con's

as yet we know nothing about any plan.

What else is happening that could affect all depositors,

Current market conditions means the loan book has very little short term value (UK & IoM), HMG to back banks with a Toxic bank to the tune of £200B, doesn't affect us directly however it does mean that many companies and possibly individuals may be more able to carry their dept through the recession - therefore should strengthen IoM and KSF UK loan book over the long term thus giving a higher payback.

E&Y should - hopefully within the next couple of months be in a position to release a report and an indication of any returns.

Diver will be speaking at the TCS in Feb, no monetary value - but could increase pressure on HMG to do something to assist IoM and our position.

It's my opinion that all involved are trying to hold as long as possible so the position of KSF UK can be added to the figures, this I agree doesn't help any of the creditors of KSF IoM at this present time, however if IoMG were to come clean and state publicly that there's Xp in the £ now both traditional route & SOA and that they are waiting for the E&Y report before advancing any further consideration of possible SOA scheme's - then maybe, just maybe we as depositors could adjust to a further delay.

I do feel if the IoMG want to forgo the traditional liquidation and DCS trigger, depositors must be given far more information than they are currently willing to divulge and they must also come up with a plan to forward a better and quicker "hardship" payment scheme than they have to date.

IoMG talk to depositors, show you are dealing with HMG and Iceland, that you are looking at the involvement of the directors and the FSC, publish the details of the talks FSA > FSC - stand up and be counted.

Northern Rock - Adam Applegarth - In front of the Treasury Select Committee for his role in the demise

Lehman Bro's - Richard Severin Fuld, Jr - In front of US Oversight Committee, he and a further 12 directors have Grand Jury Subpoenas

KSF IoM - Ahhhh - pass

Attached Creditors Guide for information only & refers to England & Wales -- NOT IoM

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IoMG - what you make of it..

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Tue, 20/01/2009 - 00:29

In relation to liquidation and DCS, I wish to make the following points:

(1) Of "liquidation is governed by statute"

So is the DCS itself.

(2) Of "PWC will hold onto huge reserves at all times to ensure all fees are met"

Not indefinitely.

(3) Of "Fire sale of loan book with associated fee's probably means around 15>20% actual liquid recovery"

Insofar as any sale of the loan book or any other part of an insolvent business is a "fire sale", I do not see why it is claimed by you that the sum raised by such a sale could be any different to that raised when the same part is sold under a SoA.

(4) " Liquidators work on %'s (eg. lets say 10% for recovery - £200m back from UK - PWC cut - £20m)"

Are you sure this figure for fees is remotely realistic? Why not ask Simpson?


Why don't you wait until we have the details available!

  • klauseriksen
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 20/01/2009 - 06:42

Elgee,
You have once again disclosed your single-minded bias towards the DSC. What I don’t understand is why you have this strong bias for the DSC at this point in time since the details of the DSC are at best sketchy as the payment schedule has yet to be revealed and since the SoA at the moment is a completely unknown.
In short none of us currently has the necessary information available to make a qualified judgement. Therefore the least we can do is to wait until the full details of both schemes are available and THEN start discussions of which is best. I for one would like to see the full details of both schemes before making any decisions.


klaus, dont get upset..

  • hippychickrobbed
  • 03/11/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 20/01/2009 - 08:11

Klaus, we are all waiting for the proposals which i am sure will have been worked out to suit all, Alix partners were brought in for a purpose beleive me. We have to all sit tight now, ...


re- IoMG - what you make of it..

  • skintagainnow
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 20/01/2009 - 01:36

Insofar as any sale of the loan book or any other part of an insolvent business is a "fire sale", I do not see why it is claimed by you that the sum raised by such a sale could be any different to that raised when the same part is sold under a SoA.

I don't claim any such thing - if the loan book is sold under fire sale conditions in this current market then that's the probable value.

Liquidation and DCS go hand in hand one will not happen without the automatic trigger of the other.

PWC retention of liquid assets - no not indefinitely just until the end of their tenure

PWC - will not say as these are worked out at the first creditors meeting -- ie the one that happens after liquation... It can be worked on fee basis or % -- fee structures are worked out by agreement with the liquidator and the creditors committee -- wonder which one PWC will go for... I used 10% as an example.
Please read the attachment this clearly states how liquidations in ENGLAND & WALES are costed.

I do not claim anywhere within the post that one system is better than the other, I simply request we need a lot more clear information from IoMG before anyone can make an informed decision based on their own circumstances.

Come on Elgee, you claim others do not read / understand your posts correctly - you clearly haven't read mine.


Summaries

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 19/01/2009 - 23:59

Thanks for that, I for one very much appreciate that type of summary / analysis info.