The IOM Government SHOULD NOT refund over 50k

  • concerned islander
  • 13/02/09 31/05/09
  • not a depositor
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Posted: Fri, 13/02/2009 - 14:47

I must first state that I am not a depositor with KSF but I am a resident of the Isle of Man.
I really do feel heart felt sympathy for depositors with KSF but personally DO NOT believe that the IOM government should fund KSF depositors with any additional money over and above the 50k guaranteed amount.
Heres why:

It was widely known that the guarantee scheme was for 50k not 100 percent of the deposit. It is not relevant what other governments are doing elsewhere as they are in different situations to the IOM.
The Isle of Man as a financial centre is finished, I have several friends here who work in the finance sector and they all inform me that depositors money is leaving the Isle of Man RAPIDLY and new deposits are significantly reduced. The Island now has ZERO credibility as a safe place to deposit funds. Whether or not the Isle of Man pays 100 percent of the KSF depositors monies or not it is still finished as a financial centre as it does not have enough reserves to guarantee deposits in the event of another bank or financial institution going under. To pay 100 percent of the KSF depositors monies would financially cripple the Isle of Man its tax payers and their children for generations to come and there will not be the large amounts of income generated from the now ridiculed "finance industry" to help. This would lead to cuts in services, with less money for education and healthcare. Taxes would have to be raised pushing more businesses and individuals away from the Island. The depositors should concentrate their efforts on the UK and Iceland for anything over the 50k guaranteed amount !
At the same time the Island will need to quickly start investing in New Industries to provide employment for its population or risk losing increasingly larger numbers of residents to other countries.
The depositors will lose all money over the 50k limit and the people of the Isle of Man lose a finance industry but retain enough funds to invest in new industries, OR the depositors get all of their money and the Isle of Man doesnt have enough money to buy a pot to piss in.
No one who lives in the Isle of Man has signed a form giving permission for the Government to squander its reserves with the knowledge that the quality of life for them and their children will diminish significantly however, depositors with KSF IOM signed forms knowing that the upper limit on deposit guarantees in the Island was 50k. I believe that legally and morally the Island has NO obligation to refund deposits over the value of 50k.

Concerned Island Resident

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Concerned Islander

  • Podcar
  • 13/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 13/01/2010 - 09:24

No one who lives in the Isle of Man has signed a form giving permission for the Government to squander its reserves with the knowledge that the quality of life for them and their children will diminish significantly...

AND NO-ONE WHO ENTRUSTED THEIR LIFE'S SAVINGS TO A BANK IN THE IOM HAS SIGNED A FORM GIVING PERMISSION FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO SQUANDER ITS CASH IN THE KNOWLEDGE THAT THE QUALITY OF LIFE FOR THEM AND THEIR CHILDREN WILL DIMINISH SIGNIFICANTLY.

WE, THE DEPOSITORS, WHO NAIVELY DEPOSITED OUR MONEY IN KSF IOM, ARE THE SACRIFICIAL LAMBS TO WHAT IS BECOMING INCREASINGLY CLEAR IS A MASSIVE COVER-UP, A FRAUD, A CRIME. HOW DARE THE IOM GOVERNMENT COLLUDE WITH THE UK TO DEPRIVE INNOCENT PEOPLE OF THEIR MONEY.

AS A RESIDENT OF THIS ISLAND, YOUR CONCERN SHOULD BE THAT IN YOUR NAME, YOUR GOVERNMENT HAS CAUSED 1000s OF PEOPLE TO SUFFER EXTREME FINANCIAL LOSS. WE HAVE LIVED WITH THIS TRAUMA EVERY DAY SINCE OCTOBER 2008. IT HAS AFFECTED EVERY ASPECT OF OUR LIVES.

YOU ARE SMUG. YOU FAIL TO GRASP THAT YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO ACKNOWLEDGE IOM CULPABILITY AND DEMAND THAT THE CRIME THAT HAS BEEN PERPETRATED ON THE DEPOSITORS BE REMEDIED. WITHOUT DELAY.


This is a IoM Givernment Posting:

  • follow_the_tao
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 13/01/2010 - 02:24

Fuck You Brown, yes, you you, you moustached hypocrite, and your sidekick Bell.

It is obvious that this is a reaction to your intransigence and hypocrisy, or a trick from this site.

But the basis is that you have lied. You are a liar Señor Brown. You are a liar Señor Bell. Do you see this you IoM polliticos? You lie and you fool no-one. Ofcourse you know. You aren¡t that stupid. But you believe you have avoidedthe nemesis

The IoM government is a true joke. The UK p*ss all over you. They use you. Brown, Bell, and the rest are truly whores.

The crunch is universal. But your behaviour is typically reprehensible. Your judiciary is compromised. The ioM political class have shown themselves to be whores, the IoM judiciary have shown themselves to be whores, what is left. I don't even presume to presume to ask as to the qualities of your businesses.
To use the colloquial: The ruling elite of the IoM stink to high heaven. And they keep their plebs in control.

The IOM was a joke used by the big banks of the UK. You, IoM, are now collateral damage, go sink.

Personally I have not forgotten. Your nemesis is within the next 10 years. Guard your borders.


Labour Government (swear word) Sorry!

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Wed, 13/01/2010 - 08:48

Prepare to BURN THEM at the Stake! These people are Traitors! Off with their Heads!!!!

their days are Numbered! The only way is through the Courts as an individual claim compensation from the failure of the FSA to protect our interests!

Have written to John Denham have a Reply cannot sign the EDM he is precluded from it whatever this means...??

Will try Julian Lewis for Lyndhurst Hants...

Aurora


TROLL

  • follow_the_tao
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 13/01/2010 - 02:00

The writer of this posting must be a troll-

Enough games-


TROLL

  • follow_the_tao
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 13/01/2010 - 01:59

The writer of this posting must be a troll-

Enough games-


@concerned islander: Wake up.

  • follow_the_tao
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 13/01/2010 - 01:27

Your government cynically and in the basest possible way provided funds for those that had up to 50K after the event, the majority IoManners.
The rest could go hang.
This action was selfish in the extreme.
They basically said "We´ll take the heat off ourselves as IoM politicos, look good, and get away with f**king the rest by appearing to respond.
If you are stupid enough to believe that your government, the IoM financial industry, and the IoM population, are acting honourably. then we have no more to say.
I don't know why you posted. I have no idea. Perhaps you sense the dishonesty, the cynicism, the crude short sighted self interest of the 'bought' politicos in your island. You are right. They are a disgraceful self serving bunch of incompetent hypocrites. And currently you don't appear to be much better.

Can you learn?

By all means respond. I'll pick up your questions.


REFUSAL OF IOMG TO RETURN KSF DEPOSITS IN FULL

  • conned
  • 13/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 12/01/2010 - 13:39

Here is why the IOMG should return our full deposits. We have a campaign on the Internet, 'don't bank on the Isle of Man', if you check on Google you will see that 14 million people have clicked on our campaign. If you click youtube you will see many thousands of people have viewed our 32 videos. We have thousands of people informed of this on Twitter and Facebook and in Financial Magazines. The result of this is many BILLIONS of lost financial investment and bank deposits over the past year. (I do not have the latest figures but the next quarter will be released at the end of January). I expect to see further substantial losses. This will have a very negative effect on Manx residents lifestyle now and in the future. Who is going to bank on the IOM if they won't give us our money back? It is not rocket science.


You have a point.

  • Thor Halland
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 11/01/2010 - 15:10

I Joined this group within days of it starting.Pretty soon I realised that the group was run by and for the holders of large amounts of money.

When I mentioned that for many of us who had under 50 Grand the best strategy might not be the best strategy for the Bigger fish.They demanded I 'fall into line,they abused me,the stated that we would only be paid a pound year.

I got my money back because I got what I wanted which was a different thing to many of you still here.

The IOM actually increased the payout from 15,000 to 50,000 thereby saving me all my money so don't expect me to be angry with them.Also They never lost the money.Alasdair Darling took it and kept it.

It would be nice if you all got paid out but you made enemies out of people.


Thor Response

  • Anonymous
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  • Wed, 13/01/2010 - 09:38

I think you fail to see the real reasons behind all this Shabang this has been premeditated..

Lucky for you then that the DCS was raised then!!!.. why I wonder its funny how this can be done at the flick of a switch when it suits the Government!

These people with more that 50.000 have suffered unpresidented Damage in their LIVES including myself who was made homeless in this with a Child... I had £90000 House Sale Divorce Settlement which was not a lot more than you but I have to wait for years to get my claim back in total if I ever do???..

The IOM UK governments have not been Fair and mighty controlling in all this and been dreadfully SLOW in returning peoples Money...

You Must not Lose sight of the Damage this has done to people including the Poor man who commited Suicide!

Glad you have your money back but please spare a caring thought for those of us who still suffer..

Thanks Aurora


@ Thor

  • glen07
  • 21/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 12/01/2010 - 22:50

In respect, Thor, with a view to your posting on this website, I must tell you that I have larger than 50K deposit but certainly not in the leagues of the "Bigger Fish", who have far more to lose than me. DAG was quite a united front at the collapse of the KSFIOM bank. It was exactly your need to stategise, for just a certain group of depositors, that fractured that united front and gave all governmental bodies, the IOM and UK, exactly the ammunition they needed to play one group off against another and delay the activation of the DCS, with the suggestion of a SOA, which on reflection, was offering the most pathetic returns on our deposits compared to what looks to be the return now. Although favoured by some DAG members, the process of detailing the SOA was both tardy, faulty and cumbersome. The DCS, also, has used this disunity to delay payments ( some of which have still not been received by depositors). If you have a guarantee payout scheme, as you have pointed out was raised from 15K to 50K GBP, set up in the IOM, the details should have been decided by the government and banks, who contributed, in such detail that payments should have been efficient, fast and thorough. Details of members, for example, receiving their cheques unsigned and months late, is just gross unprofessionalism.

I am genuinely delighted you have received your full deposits. The support required from members, to write to their MP, to raise awareness of the EDM, was just sought as a way of bringing relief to those still worried or suffering because of the loss of their deposits. SIMPLE AS THAT! Just an appeal, to your better nature, to support those who just sat back quietly, hoping for the return of their funds. I don't care whether you are a small fry or a big fish, I just want to see justice done for all. You are quite entitled to your views, Thor. I just thought some pensioners, who sunk their life savings into a AAA rated bank; given wonderful guarantees by Iceland, with back up support from the IOM; felt was well regulated by the British Treasury and FSA, deserved a bit of support from you. Nobody's asking for any money - just a bit of conscience about those innocents left out there in the cold. Sorry you feel the way you do but you sought to protect your best interests by dissolving yourself from the big fish. That contributed to division in our efforts. This is merely a rally cry, this late on in the game, to have you come back and maybe do something for those left who did not violate you in some way, if you feel they did. I am realistic to realise that the divisions would happen over time. It's pure human nature. I'm asking people to rise above these differences and aim at the better good for all.


Thor and Annonymous

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 12/01/2010 - 18:36

I'd say that was far from the case, in fact many bigger depositors were bemoaning their lack of representation at the start of all of this, and their percieved unreasonable share of the risk. I am certain to lose at least 10% on FX alone for instance, let alone what a 10% drop means to me and my family. However may I suggest this is fruitless, 70% of depositors are getting or have got 100% return, the bigger depositors look like getting between 85-90% over many years. Case stated I'd have thought, surely we have all moved on and should be looking to what we can do positively and not regurgitating old and tired arguments. Like write to an MP and get the EDM signed for those whose lives have been ruined, not merely inconvenienced.

For a start you might want to read "Meltdown Iceland" by Roger Boyes, a very illuminating book about greed, nepotism, incompetence and corruption!

You also state that "They demanded I 'fall into line,they abused me,the stated that we would only be paid a pound year." Please show us evidence of that Thor as bellyup has asked.


Not true

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 12/01/2010 - 13:50

Pretty soon I realised that the group was run by and for the holders of large amounts of money.

simply not true

Would you like to elaborate on who abused you?


names?

  • Thor Halland
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Wed, 13/01/2010 - 07:41

I can't remember names-it was a year ago and I have no need for evidence it is not as if anything will be done about it.

My testimony is evidence and I have no need to lie about it.

Has every thread been kept or have some been deleted if they have all been kept then you will be able to trawl back and find them.

I was abused for saying that those of us under 50,000 should have a separate plan and that our needs were different from the over 50,000s

People did lie about being payed the government guarantee

Oh and the self styled leaders never replied to any emails I sent them they just gave out instructions.Diver,expat for instance.

We had endless delays when we should have just gone straight to liquidation and not pissed about .


@Thor

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 13/01/2010 - 09:38

Thor no one got answers in those desperate days I certainly did'nt , my donations to the legal fund were never even acknowledged and indeed we still dont in many ways

( as in when I ask what the cost is of lawyers employed by the DST )

So please don't think that you were singled out in any way.

I am very happy that you have received your full deposit back .

If you have an MP please fire off the EDM letter one more email wont hurt and may help us that are left with the prospect of years of waiting for some of our savings to come back to us.


less than 50k

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Tue, 12/01/2010 - 13:11

Yes, Thor, the first few weeks were bad. Any talk of the DCS was taboo. I was annoyed and felt bitter. We were used to shore up the big depositors. I had almost forgotten about this issue - your letter brought it back. So much antagonism. I have always felt sidelined. More support for lower value depositors may have activated the DCS sooner - I received my money in December.


Activation of DCS

  • Brabander
  • 15/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 14/01/2010 - 21:24

Anonymous, your claim that the DCS would have been activated sooner if lower value depositors had been given more support is ABSOLUTE RUBBISH!

The reason the DCS was not activated until almost 10 months after our accounts were frozen was simply the decision by the IOM government to delay the liquidation of the bank as long as possible. It was legally not possible to activate the DCS until the IOM Court had decided to approve the liquidation of the bank. The reality is that the Court would not do so until the IOM Government recommended this course of action anf they kept deferring this. We, the depositors, were never given any input or control over this decision.

As a direct result of the delay, the depositors received no dividends or DCS payments (whereas funds were available to do so!) until almost one year after the bank stopped trading. At the same time the Liquidator Provisional racked up substantial expenses and legal fees which the higher value depositors will pay for!

IN THE NAME OF TRUTH AND JUSTICE I EXPECT YOU TO RESPOND TO THIS MESSAGE AND CONFIRM THAT YOU AGREE THAT THE DELAY IN THE PAYMENT OF THE DCS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY LACK OF SUPPORT FOR LOWER VALUE DEPOSITORS!

My fellow depositors will judge your honesty and integrity accordingly.

By the way I am a pensioner who is a higher value depositor and I have so far received back less than 40% of my deposits (even less if I include the accrued interest deducted).
It is beyond me that you are critical of higher value depositors and blame us when we never had any control over any of these events. Blame the people in control since October 2008 if you want to blame anybody.

Brabander


@Thor

  • glen07
  • 21/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 14/01/2010 - 23:21

There's been consensus support from lower and higher value depositors throughout this debacle - people who were willing to accomodate the interests of all to create a fair outcome. You win, you lose some but we've all been in the same boat in the beginning and we're trying to see this through to make it fair on all. There's been support, for the EDM, from members who have already been paid back their deposits. They have taken their time to lend support to others who are not so fortunate of having their minds put at rest.

You are entitled to your opinions but for the love of god, spare some compassion for those left worrying to death about their future who never theatened you or wished you not to recover your deposits.


@ anonymous

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 12/01/2010 - 13:56

Please explain
How exactly you were used to shore up depositors?
And why if you have your money back what is your point in coming on here and moaning about those who are not in such a fortunate position?


DCs

  • Julie
  • 03/12/08 14/07/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 12/01/2010 - 14:17

Can anyone tell me why over one month has passed and DCS is still holding the rest of my payout from PWC? Every one got 40%. DCS paid me 100k and is still holding on to the other 22k they received on my behalf. Who and how should I cantact regarding this? I did contact PWC and they said DCS did not pay all the amount they gave them on my behalf. Is there an email adress for them so that I can complain to them?


why?

  • humphrey
  • 10/10/08 01/03/11
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 29/07/2009 - 10:09

Has this very old post been brought back into play?


hunphrey

  • chris watson
  • 23/10/08 31/03/10
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  • Wed, 29/07/2009 - 17:52

I could speculate...and it sadly does give the impression of people negotiating with a brick wall. The original post is nearly six months old and I would very much doubt the poster will respond.

Depositors might do better airing their views on www.manxforums.com rather than preaching to the choir here.

After all, if my theory is correct - which is the IOM taxpayer should not bail out over the 50K compensation limit but should push their own government to get HMG to make honouring the Parental Guarantee to KSFIOM a condition for Iceland to join the EU - it is the people on there who need convincing.

I'd only advise, albeit patronizingly and no doubt rudely, that should posters decide to write on that forum they should get their facts straight before stating them as such and be prepared to have their views challenged and questions asked of them to be answered.

To that end, Done Like A Kipper and those with a similar attitude, should obviously not consider posting there at all as I think the results would be toe-curling :)

For what it's worth, I think the Manx on there are fairly sympathetic but will not tolerate inaccuracy or accept a bill for something that they consider they are not legally liable to pay. Nor would I if they came on to a forum expecting me to do the same for them in the same circumstances and, I suspect, nor would most depositors on this forum roll over without just cause either.


Concerned Islander

  • FEDUP
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 27/07/2009 - 22:39

Concerned Islander, You cannot possibly be as concerned as the depositors of KSFIOM, who have lost their lifesavings. You are concerned for the future of the Islanders and their children, do you not think we are also concerned for our future. For twenty years we have saved and worked hard for our retirement, only to see our savings disappear into a bank that was completely inadequate to safe guard depositors funds. We have no future until our funds are rightfully returned to us.

The IOMG has let the depositors of KSFIOM down badly. We did not sign anything to accept £50,000 compensation, on the contrary we received a written guarantee from KSFIOM stating that 100% of our funds would be covered in the event of the bank failing, of course we all know now that the guarantee was not worth the paper it was printed on.

The IOMG could have saved the reputation of the banking sector on the Island if they had stopped thinking of themselves and paid back 100% of depositors funds within a timely manner and all the bad press which is going on now, and will not cease until we are paid back in full would have been avoided.


IOM missed an opportunity

  • banna
  • 15/10/08 01/03/10
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  • Mon, 27/07/2009 - 21:02

With the greatest respect Concerned Islander I think you are missing the point, just as the IOM authorities missed the opportunities which were within their grasp in the early days after this disaster.
It was clear as soon as one saw the balance sheet that liquidation would bring back at least 70% of depositors' monies. That is why the IOM Treasury's attempts to put forward a Scheme of Arrangement - where they would start getting back their monies once depositors had received 60% from recoveries - were doomed to failure from the start. We could count, and realised the SoA was a non-starter.
So if at least 70% were relatively sure - failing a major hidden fraud - Treasury had a golden opportunity to come out of the issue smelling of roses and with 11000 admiring ambassadors scattered througout the world. Instead it has created 11000 bitter people plus all their friends and families who will never again dream of putting money on the island and who spend most of their spare time trying to imagine ways of doing down the island.
70% from liquidation means a shortfall of about £260m.
There is a group of Life Companies with about £300m at risk and balance sheets worth many billions. If Treasury had immediately set about getting them to put £100m into the pot between them (£10-£15m per life Co) and had itself put in £150m - which it was in any case committing itself to- the hole could have been filled and the Life Companies, Treasury and the depositors could have jointly set about tackling the real villains : UK Treasury and Kaupthing Iceland. That joint action would have made an enormous difference to the impact we could have had on the UK Government, Iceland, European Commission and perhaps even the IMF who rescued Iceland. At the IOM level we could also have talked to the other European countries who had Kaupthing depositors, most of whom moved very quickly to cover their nationals' problems. I believe that would have resolved the problem and the IOM would have received sufficient assistance from the UK Government to get a loan to cover the problem.
Instead of creating success IOM has created bitter depositors, has wasted large sums on consultants and will pay considerable funds to meet its committment to the £50k. And think of what it could have done with the time it has wasted on this problem!
Whether IOM will or can keep and develop its financial services sector I have no idea - but it does not deserve to if it puts at its head the sort of indecisive and unimaginative people it has now placed there.


Spot on Banna !

  • merlina
  • 26/01/09 01/06/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 12/01/2010 - 15:53

You are absolutely correct Banna, perfectly put and totally true.
All this could have been avoided so easily by IOM Government.

Spot On Banna !


Concerned. May i point out

  • thesunnysouth
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 27/07/2009 - 20:20

Concerned. May i point out that the Depositors compensation scheme could probably be classed a misnoma as in fact they are not truly compensating simply standing in the stead of people with less than £50k. The IoMT hope to regain most if not all the amount they are LENDING.
Had they reacted quickly in October they could have stepped in and nationalised the bank and spent probably the same as they now are on the DCS. They procrastinated and avoided doing anything. Indeed had it not been for DAG and some very good individuals the IoMG would have let this matter drop and we would still be looking at some protracted SoA lasting probably well into the next decade.
If a government want to be regarded as heavyweights in the financial world they need to have the bottle to make important decisons quickly.
You will get little sympathy here because the IoMG did everything in its power to derail the work of this site and other like minded people.
John


IOM SHOULD NOT refund > 50k unless their jobs are on the line

  • margaretta
  • 22/11/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 27/07/2009 - 16:18

Dear Concerned Islander,

Since you are not a depositor you have not lost your money so please stop worrying. The Isle of Man as a financial centre is NOT finished. This is not the first time that an IOM bank has absconded with depositors’ money (or investor’s money as your government prefers to call it) and it’s unlikely to be the last. The Island has had ZERO credibility as a safe place to deposit funds several times before.

A week in politics may be a long time. In banking a week is considerably shorter however after a year or maybe less all but those who lost their life savings in the latest IOM fiasco will have forgotten what IOM and it’s residents stand for and life will go on for the IOM.

I agree it is not relevant what other governments are doing elsewhere as they are in different situations to the IOM. The main thing to realise is that the IOM Government is not a Government. It would be like referring to the mafia as the government of Sicily. (I’m sure the Triskelion is a very unfortunate coincidence in this regard). IOMG is a vestigial feudal organ maintained by the British Government for their own purposes. We can hardly blame the current movers and shakers in IOMG seeking to maintain their unearned incomes via the illusion of independence any more than we can blame the movers and shakers in HMG for ‘acting within the rules’ to abscond with tax payers funds under the guise of ‘expenses’.

Depositors would be only too happy to concentrate their efforts on the UK and Iceland for anything over the 50k guaranteed amount. However that would require support from IOMG since the answer from both UK and Iceland thus far has been it’s an IOM problem. Such IOM support seemed a foregone conclusion given early mumblings from IOMG about the UK’s FSA, however once IOMG had time to consider all was forgotten and we depositors were alone again.

I have to call you up on one thing though. You state that ‘depositors with KSF IOM signed forms knowing that the upper limit on deposit guarantees in the Island was 50k’. That is not true. The upper limit on compensation was 15,000 not 50,000 and there were no signed forms relating to this. What depositors signed up to was a credible system of banking control and the expectation that if the worst came to the worst that the IOM banking regulator and IOM Government would act in the best interest of the depositors not their own.

I agree that legally and morally the Island has NO obligation to refund deposits over the value of 50k. My own opinion is that a banking regulator has a LEGAL obligation to manage it’s banks properly and in the event that one of it’s properly managed banks absconds with depositors’ funds then they will pursue the management and staff of that bank to the fullest in order to recover those funds including imprisonment and confiscation of assets. I also believe that an Island who advertises itself as an offshore financial centre further has a MORAL obligation to ensure that this takes place.

So far I have yet to see that IOMG is even interested in let alone understands what the above terms mean. Their logic appears to be ‘I think we can get away with 50k in this case so let’s see if the suckers fall for it’.
I’m sure the extent of influence and involvement of the absconding bank’s management over the functioning of the IOMG’s banking regulatory body were just as much coincidence as the IOM symbol’s similarity to that of Sicily. Maybe that’s where we should start looking for our money. I wouldn’t be surprised if Peter Mandelson and the Bishop of Sodor are there right now enjoying a few sundowners and laughing hysterically at us idiots who fell for their ingenious new method of raising a few more tax dollars to cover MP’s expenses.

If KSFIOM was legitimate and properly funded then where is the money and what is IOMG doing about it? If it was not then what was IOM thinking about given the IOM’s previous history ?

With the present and ongoing communication opportunities of the internet I hope it’s not unreasonable to conjecture that offering 50k to depositors is unlikely to wash in this case. To what extent this is likely to be true will depend to a large extent on how pissed off the victims of KSFIOM are which is entirely in the hands of your ‘government’. Until of course you elect a new one. As I said a week is a long time in politics….


What an excellent submission

  • steveservaes
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 27/07/2009 - 17:31

What an excellent submission


Hear, Hear!

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 28/07/2009 - 07:01

Excellent commentary.


Apart from the concerned

  • barrona
  • 17/11/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 28/07/2009 - 07:21

Apart from the concerned islander talking through his or her hat I agree with ice Crusher that the response was excellent.

The IoM stands isolated in their actions and their refusal to do the decent thing in fully compensating the over 50k depositors, of which I am one, as a matter of urgency, will surely come back to haunt them.

DAG/DST must now pursue this vigorously and explore all avenues, including the European Court to get our money back. I certainly can't wait 5 years and I am sure other depositors can't either.


Concerned Islander

  • Ramsey resident
  • 22/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Wed, 18/02/2009 - 15:19

Your comments do not square with published facts yesterday that banking deposits on the IOM ended December 2008 at a 'record high' of £66 Billion, some three months after the KSF collapse

I think that there is a vast re-shuffling of deposits going on from percieved vulnerable banks to the safer ones (I am doing this myself) more than money leaving the IOM

I am a local depositor but agree that the IOM is not responsible for causing this mess, the UK are, however had our £550 million not been placed in London it would have been upstreamed to Rekjavik and disappeared completely. At least it is now in London for eventual distribution in full or in part by the UK administrators. Talking down the IOM economy by locals is a self destructing path and should be avoided as it would ultimately harm both all of us and our childrens futures

Yesterday's budget proved the good health of the IOM with 2.5% growth forecast for 2009/10 thus avoiding recession

One other point is that the DCS compensation limit was only £15,000 up to the day before the collapse when it was increased to £50K for individuals, so depositors were well aware of the limited recourse and the IOM gov has really created a huge benefit to all of us by upping the limit with emergency legislation virtually overnight

Some people say that the IOM has creamed off the profits from the good years and should stump up the cash now for KSF depositors, however this money has been invested in our future with new hospital, prison, airport facilities, harbours, sewerage infrastructure, roads, etc, etc and it is not just sitting in a bank somewhere. I agree with you that the Island can neither afford nor should it bale out more than £50K. The UK level is currently max £50K for any new failure now

I would add that I am a local working man who does NOT work for the IOM Gov or any bank or financial institution


Dear Ramsey Resident

  • lorraine
  • 14/10/08 14/07/10
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 28/07/2009 - 10:12

I don't wish to insult you so please don't take this the wrong way but if you have funds to deposit might I recommend that you consider carefully before you make your deposit:

Should it be in the IOM where, in the event of a bank failure, you are likely to get a max of 50k back after a year or so of worry, sleepless nights, form filling, argument and hardship, or

In a UK or other bank where experience has shown that within a matter of weeks you will be recompensed not only your 50k but any additional funds with no fuss, just one simple form to fill in.

I do hope that if your funds are on the island that you have chosen wisely and put them into a bank with a depositor's guarantee from a more reputable source than IOM.


I regret to say as an Island

  • steveservaes
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 28/07/2009 - 10:28

I regret to say as an Island resident that I will never bank another penny on the Island.


Concerns

  • Tricky Dicky
  • 24/10/08 30/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Wed, 18/02/2009 - 15:44

Understand what you are saying regarding who caused the problem, but:
1. The bank we deposited in is situated on the IOM and therefore comes under its jurisdiction, and financial services regimes for good or bad
2. If KSFIOM and FSC had upstreamed money to other 3rd party financial instiutions it would be easier to recover.
3. IOMG have stated on numerous occassions that their DCS has quote "for many years served us well". If it was/is that good why have they abandoned it in favour of a SoA, which is totally unproven and i personally have no trust in, as far as I can understand really only benefits the Insurance Companies themselves. With respect - at the present rate of progress the DCS will pay back faster the a SoA
4. IOMG said they are doing all they can to help depositors. In Oct 08 the HMT went twice to Iceland, without any IOMG personnel, in fact the first movement from IOMG was not until Nov 08 when they went to see Jack Straw (MoJ). Since then I understand IOMG have visited Iceland once and met with the Kaupthing Resolution Committee, with what scintillating result, why did they not meet with the Icelandic Governmemt to discuss this issue
5. In every other country that has been affected by Kaupthing, depositors, the bank and the governments of those countries have seen to it that every depositor has had a 100% return of their deposits, so why does the IOM want to be different? IOMG know that they are walking a tightrope with their ploys and games, its a risk it seems they are prepared to take.
6. If I were in IOMG I would be using every piece of PR, every spin doctor I could find, to produce 'good news and figures' - wouldn't you?

Mistakes by officials have ocurred both in IOM, UK and Iceland. As the bank is regulated under IOM rules, then the IOM must be our first port of recourse


Tricky Dicky

  • Ramsey resident
  • 22/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Wed, 18/02/2009 - 15:57

The IOM cannot talk to the Icelandic Gov as our constitutional position as a crown dependency is that the UK Gov are responsible for both defence and external / foreign affairs of the Island


TD

  • Tricky Dicky
  • 24/10/08 30/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Wed, 18/02/2009 - 16:21

I am fully aware of that fact.
My concern is that IOMG did not appear to make any attempt to consult with the UK MoJ/HMT regarding Kaupthing until after the HMT teams had been to Iceland, twice.
I am sure the HMT team only went to finalise the KSFUK/ING deal. Add to this that no HMT team has returned to Iceland for further talks after IOMG's meeting with Jack Straw, to discuss the KSFIOM problem, shows me that the outcome of the meeting with Mr Straw, was a) the IOMG were ineffective in their meeting with J Straw, or b) HMG did not want to act under their role of 'Big Brother' for this Crown Dependency.


Ramsey resident

  • skintagainnow
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Wed, 18/02/2009 - 16:04

So why did they waste Tax payers money on a Jolley to Iceland?


Skintagainnow

  • Ramsey resident
  • 22/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Wed, 18/02/2009 - 16:09

To talk to Kaupthing resolution committee - that they are allowed to do

Trying to help you and I!!!


Then an unofficial meeting /

  • skintagainnow
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Wed, 18/02/2009 - 16:18

Then an unofficial meeting / chat with the Icelandic government wouldn't have been amiss -- while they were there, after all if members of the general public can have a meeting with the Icelandic Ambassador in London at very short notice - surly members of foreign friendly government can have a similar "chat" with their opposite numbers, by prior arrangement of course - Yes / No


Everyone

  • Premier
  • 10/02/09 31/05/09
  • not a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 17/02/2009 - 20:17

Presumably the Isle of Man government is organised on the principals of democracy and the majority of you Islanders voted this lot in! Apparently because you thought they would create wealth for the Island.

Well you backed the wrong party and now the quality of life for you and your children will diminish significantly. But will this be any worse than it is for an eighty year old widow who is now forced to sell her comfortable home and live in a 10 x 4 caravan?

You can expect little sympathy from people who work a lifetime making independent provision for their retirement only to have it snatched from them by fraudsters - based on your island.

Once you have got rid of your wretched government we may send you a food parcel - and only because you are not directly involved in this fraud.

In the meantime the victims of KSFIOM wish you happy hard times - come join us in poverty!


Voting for Govts on Isle of Man or UK

  • Honest Citizen
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Wed, 18/02/2009 - 15:40

This is going off topic, a little, but I'm saddened to see the dispute arising between us (DAG) and some of the members of IoM public.

I don't agree with the notion of sleighting the average working citizen on the Isle of Man for having a lousy mickey mouse government. In the UK, we (collectively, not personally) voted in the man who took the UK into an illegal war not once, but twice - not because we fancied him as a prime minister, but because the democratic process has offered us so little by way of good honest politicians. Denigrating the populace of the Isle of Man for their government's mishandling of the KSF issue is a little like the 7/7 terrorists feeling justified in blowing up ordinary UK citizens because of the actions of their government.

I raised the issue before. Which of the current UK parties have shown any interest in our case? Would the Tories do a u-turn on the 550 mill if they came in tomorrow? From the little I've heard them say in their correspondence, I doubt it.

The average man in the streets of Douglas is no more to blame for their government's actions than the UK man in the street is to blame for the UK's involvement in the Iraq war. Democracy is just a comfy word nowadays. In terms of the real choice it gives the "voter", it's a farce.

I would love the Isle of Man citizens to support our cause but unless their media supports us and unless there is a real "government in opposition" waiting in the wings, I can't see that their support or otherwise, is going to influence the unimaginative souls in their government.


Sorry I couldn't come back before now, but...

  • follow_the_tao
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 15/02/2009 - 02:37

was delayed and the affidavits came out yesterday.
I think what is happening is that the IoM is/was skimming profits off the credit bubble.
It has burst. The IoM simply doesn't want to step up and pay, where it had been profitable in the past, they have banked those profits and think they can hold on to these now illusionary profits.
The government and the islands regulatory authority have been signally remiss in acting with reasonable care to protect their clients, and now don't want to act, like other nations to protect, compensate depositors for their losses.
I was busy.
The depositors in the IoM situation have lost more than elsewhere, hence the IoM will suffer more than elsewhere.
Your government and regulatory authority's actions have been pathetic. The UK sees you as an irritation. The situation will simply unwind.
Your government isn't doing the right thing. This time, if you are correct and people are leaving the island, the people, in the words of the Who song, won't get fooled again. This time people are going to remember because the rules are going to change on the mainland. The, Uk, and your, financial industry is going to contract, and people are going to remember the small minded actions of your operators and government. Welcome to the the depression.
You, your friends may well suffer more than elsewhere because you are so dependent on the financial industry. But of course you don't think so, after enjoying the profits, that you have any responsibility to pay the piper.
I am still in favour of civilised debate, but your opinion strikes me as incredibly uninformed. " We have no responsibility to pay for our mistakes."
You of course aren't affected.
HuH
DRM


In the true spirit of Isle of Man

  • drglowry
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sat, 14/02/2009 - 00:48

concerned islander is correct in thinking that the IOM will, indeed, be "finished" as a financial services centre with news of loss by KSFIOM depositors. The reasoning follows the line of the Icelander vikings - that we had a good time with your money - paid the bills, ate regular meals, sent our kids to school, enjoyed our retirement on our savings, but we gave your money away and now must just look after ourselves. Not even a "good luck to you".

To think that we entrusted our life / retirement savings in IOM! WE depositors have children and elderly and sick, dependent on our savings. Are KSFIOM depositors and their families less human, deserving of dispossession, whilst IOM people get on? WE are dispossessed due to the INEPTITUDE and / or DISHONESTY of IOM Government and FSC officials. You made a living from our savings and ultimately were responsible for our dispossession.

You don't have to worry about the IOM Government paying out more than £ 50,000 to a depositor. After four months, my wife and I have yet to see a penny of our £ 300,000+. We have certainly seen nothing from the much publicised Early Payment Scheme. After witnessing the craven and self-interested performances of Mr Brown and Mr Aspden before the UK Treasury Select Committee on February 3, I am confident that IOM Government is working to avoid paying any sum to KSFIOM depositors, that the primary purpose behind the proposed Scheme of Arrangement is to allow IOM officials to avoid answering for their actions in the criminal court as they so richly deserve.

Most of us KSFIOM depositors are too old to start over and will live in penury for the rest of our days. If I am to be impoverished due to dispossession at the hands of IOM officials, I want to see them suffer for their actions as so many KSFIOM depositors have and will continue to suffer. They are your elected officials in your little quasi-country and for many years you and yours benefitted from our deposits. You surely deserve to go down with us..


Hear hear

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sat, 14/02/2009 - 03:30

Very well said Drglowry
Unfortunately here we have a prime example of very small island mentality.
They in the person of their man Aspen have even stooped to implying us fools for banking with them.
(Mind you he's certainly right there.)
With their treatment of KSF depositors they have instigated their own demise.


Hear, hear

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 15/02/2009 - 07:03

I concur, very well said indeed drglowry, we should use these comments in one of our many letters. Brown was right about the DCS serving them well, as an untried and wanting piece of legislation, it has served to draw in thousands of depositors believing that the IoM shopkeepers had something in place to be proud of - not so. What a stitch-up; what brazen incompetence of the man Aspden, a fool and his money are soon parted, but in this case the fool was dealing with our money and much, much, more than that he was fooling with thousands of peoples lives and aspirations. That man has to go down - one way or another.
Ice


Pigs at the trough

  • uptight61
  • 14/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sat, 14/02/2009 - 02:14

For many years you have been making money through offshore banking. I'm sure a large amount of these tax revenues, fees etc have been transferred to reserves. Something bad happens and all other countries have stepped up to the plate. The Isle of Man, with financial services as it's main bread and butter, stands out as the one jurisdiction that has not guaranteed depositors 100%. And you expect me to symphasise with you??? Also, don't forget what effect this has had on the lives of10,000 depositors (an 1/8th of your total population!!)


concerned islander

  • sleeplessnight
  • 10/10/08 30/06/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Fri, 13/02/2009 - 23:05

Perhaps you should share your concerns with the 'Gold Group' as they most certainly do not appear to hold the same fear for the Islands future economy! Additionally you should anticipate (and dare I say prepare!) that the cost to the IOM taxpayer in the event of legal action against the FSC will be considerably higher after legal fees than the cost of IOMG doing the right thing by depositors.

I particularly find your 'NLP' tactics of coercing us with the talk of the fate of the IOM 'children' abhorrent. There are plenty of children of depositors suffering right now thanks to the ineptitude of IOMG. Perhaps you should have read deeper the reply from Mekon, which has unfortunately been removed... do you give a diddly squat about the families he spoke about? No? Then please tell me why we should think beyond our own front door???


mekong message still holds good

  • sambururob
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Wed, 18/02/2009 - 15:41

Sleeplessnight,
Mekong's posting that you refer to has not been removed. It is below on this thread. Mekong was diplomatic and self-edited by removing the first two lines. The thrust of his powerful message remains.


You are owed an apology

  • Lucky Jim
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • not a depositor
  • Offline
  • Fri, 13/02/2009 - 22:54

Thank you for coming to share your concerns with us.

You will realise that many people here are very distrought & distressed by having lost their life savings and thousands have been made totally destitute as a consequence.. We hear that 4 people have committed suicide because of the Kaupthing calamity and many more are mentally & physicially ill on account of it. So you have been on the receiving end of some pretty nasty abuse. I understand the anger but I do not condone the manner in which it was expressed, & I am sorry for any hurt that it has caused you.

The good people of the IOM need to know that we are not asking for compensation from you as taxpayers. Depositors want back their money a large chunk of which is frozen in KaupthingUK. A telephone call from the UK Treasury could get it back forthwith.

If the IOM wants to continue running an international finance service then it **must guarantee deposits made in its banks**. How it does it is up to them, the FSC & the IOM Government. If it can't do it then it's a dead duck, as simple as that.

*Then it will be the British taxpayer who will have to keep YOU all alive -- & very many depositors are British taxpayers!


Apologies

  • run668
  • 18/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sat, 14/02/2009 - 02:20

Dear Concerned Islander,

Yes. You are owed an apology. We are distraught by what is happening to us but that should not warrant some of the comments posted above.

As a concerned islander, you should be more concerned about the utter ineptitude of your leaders to lead your country out of this mess.

We hope you will use your concerns and weight as an islander to make them take the right actions. The financial sector can be changed provided that the IoM moves back to the forefront of the financial sector again.

Our goals are compatible.

Run668


Best IOM investment

  • Hampnew
  • 22/01/09 31/05/09
  • not prepared to answer
  • Offline
  • Fri, 13/02/2009 - 23:01

Lucky Jim
I am already looking at opening a small store that sells only fishing tackle and spades (for digging potatoes).

That is what this economy will be reduced to.