IOM COMPENSATION SCHEME

  • calpespain
  • 12/10/08 n/a (free)
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Posted: Tue, 21/10/2008 - 23:43

It seems to me that not enough individuals are actually writing and lobbying both journalists and members of parliaments both in the IOM or the UK.

It also seems fare to assume, that the winding up order will put the bank into liquidation on Friday, leaving us all having to claim, what we can from the compensation scheme. Which incidentally with nothing in the pot, was just a scam in the first place. In reality the IOM never did have a compensation scheme that was or, is worth the paper that it has been written upon. What a joke, in the UK, that compensation scheme is required to payout within 3 months of being activated. We will absolutely never get our pittance within 20 years. So undoubtedly the scheme was a smoke screen and indeed did and continues to fool some or most of us, into believing that at the very least we will get £50,000 back. No way, lets get real here...we don't have enough people taking this seriously. We need more members to join and not just visit the site as a guest, if you have lost money , take action now, join the site and write at the very least 60 -100 letters to support those that are actively trying to secure you the return of your money.

Failure to act now WILL result into getting NOTHING AT ALL. All those years of hard work and saving every penny, paying due diligence with your money, means nothing to those that have robbed you.

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Only just invested before the crash!

  • mediabee
  • 27/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Mon, 27/10/2008 - 11:39

I invested a small amount of money with KSFIOM via the Internet at the end of September - when the Weekly Telegraph were still quoting them as good investments for expats! I just about got an email back from them saying my money had been received - and then nothing atall. I know my email demanding information was read by someone called 'James' as he ticked the 'yes' box in my request read receipt. I feel my investment is somewhat vulnerable because I have no paperwork giving details of the bond - no account number even!

I wish I was in London today to join the march to the Icelandic Embassy, and I shall be writing to the media, as requested here. Wish also I'd realised the bank was Icelandic owned, as I thought it was German!

But I have to say I think the Weekly Telegraph have been reporting events pretty accurately so far, and it was in an article last week that your website was detailed.


I also only just invested before the crash!

  • honeybee
  • 17/11/08 31/05/09
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  • Mon, 17/11/2008 - 12:17

I am also an expat and was also communicating via e-mail with 'James'. At the time of the crash my money had been transferred to Kaupthing Edge but we were awaiting confirmation that the account had thus been activated. Since then, despite e-mails requesting information on the actual status of the account, nothing to date apart from a letter posted from IOM from the liquidator saying "there is provision within the IOM legislation in respect of Depoistors' Compensation Scheme but that it has not yet been triggered."

Fortunately we do have an account number.


Keep a safe hold of any

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 27/10/2008 - 17:18

Keep a safe hold of any record of the money transfer TO KSFIOM.


Compensation Sheme for small biz

  • the_sponsor
  • 15/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Sun, 26/10/2008 - 22:33

Things are looking better now and probably we don't have to go to compensation scheme, but we should prepare for the worst anyhow.

What is the latest, are corporate accounts still out of scheme or did FSC change it back, I understood there was an possibility of that?
As we were included in original scheme and excluded from the new scheme after the collapse, would there be chance to win legal case against FSC? Original Scheme was close to nothing, but still better than new one, which is absolutely nothing.


Companies

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sun, 26/10/2008 - 22:53

The latest version of the regulations is on the web at http://www.gov.im/fsc/investor/dep_comp.xml

In answer to you question, the answer is yes - each person is entitled to compensation for the total deposited (no account is made of how many accounts this was across).

If the person is an individual, the maximum is £50,000. Otherwise it is £20,000, except for people who are licensed banks, who get nothing.

So a company gets £20,000. There are no further qualifying criteria, unlike the UK scheme which then looks at turnover etc. to exclude large companies.

Hope that's clear.


Clear, thanks.

  • the_sponsor
  • 15/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Sun, 26/10/2008 - 23:43

I've had some problems to open iom.gov.-pages last 7 days and some other websites too, I'm in banana republic and I think internet operator has set some blocks.


IOM Compensation Scheme

  • wipeout
  • 16/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 22:18

I have seen different interpretations of how this scheme will work and would like to ensure that I do really have the correct information - not that it will satisfy the situation for any of us with savings in excess of 50,000.

So, the example is that if we receive a proportion of liquidated assets in excess of 50,000, is it correct that there is no further payout from the compensation scheme? This is my understanding of how it works but I would appreciate confirmation from anybody that does actually know.

Great work from all the "team" so far and I am confident that our efforts will prove to be successfull!


Compo and liquidated assets

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 22:40

The first £50k of liquidated assets would be in place of the DCS payments. If you had £250,000 in your account and got £100,000 from the liquidator you would get ZERO from the compensation scheme.


No compensation scheme

  • Alastair
  • 10/10/08 30/09/09
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 22:50

In which case for many no compensation at all as the pence in the pound we would receive back in liquidation was our anyway. Colddose what is your source for this interpretation?

Agreed Mat this is just for academic interest or future generations as a 100% back is all we will ever settle for.


Source

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 23:18

Compensation of Depositors Regulations 2008

10.(5).c "Compensation shall be reduced by the amount of [...] any dividend or distribution relating to that deposit"


Dividend or Distribution

  • Alastair
  • 10/10/08 30/09/09
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 23:49

Well payment under liquidation isn't a dividend but I guess it could be a distribution. If this is the case and the loan book plus liquid cash is already at potentially 200-300million I would have thought the IOM's a risk for very little.


Dividend

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 23:58

Payments from the liquidator to creditors are formally termed 'dividends'.

It's a word that indicates a payment as a result of a 'dividing up'.


Live and Learn

  • Alastair
  • 10/10/08 30/09/09
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  • Sun, 26/10/2008 - 01:01

...the hard way. Thanks Cold-dose


No compensation scheme

  • Alastair
  • 10/10/08 30/09/09
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 22:48

In which case for many no compensation at all as the pence in the pound we would receive back in liquidation was our anyway. Colddose what is your source for this interpretation?

Agreed Mat this is just for academic interest or future generations as a 100% back is all we will ever settle for.


No compensation scheme

  • Alastair
  • 10/10/08 30/09/09
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 22:47

In which case for many no compensation at all as the pence in the pound we would receive back in liquidation was our anyway. Colddose what is your source for this interpretation?

Agreed Mat this is just for academic interest or future generations as a 100% back is all we will ever settle for.


Compensation

  • wipeout
  • 16/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 22:47

Cold-dose
OK thanks, just as I thought.


Quick reminder - 100% back

  • Anonymous
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 22:31

Just a quick reminder that we consider the IOM Depositor Compensation Scheme (DCS) as irrelevant and 'not fit for purpose'.

We are getting 100% of our deposits back, and within a short timescale. Nothing else is acceptable and we WILL get 100% back. We can discuss the merits and mechanics of the DCS, but ultimatley there is little point as we are getting 100% back.

Tynwald know this, the IOM FSA know this, the UK Government know this and the FSC/Treasury know this.

Mat


More Smoke & Mirrors

  • expatfrance1
  • 15/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 24/10/2008 - 06:06

As has been pointed out, the £150 million that may come from the IOM Government is really just to compensate for the smaller amount that the banks are going to pay.

Also the £200 million that has been quoted from the banks is, as I understand, the maximum they will have to pay over the lifetime of the scheme not in 1 year. (Someone correct please correct me if I am wrong)

When is someone going to have the b***s to stand up to the money grabbing bankers and make them accept their moral responsibility. Opps, forgot they dont have any morals!


£150m contribution by the Manx Government

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 24/10/2008 - 02:53

It does not appear to have been noticed by everyone that whilst there is some taxpayers funds being put into the compensation fund pot, this has also been accompanied by a corresponding DECREASE in the amount that the banks are putting it.

This would therefore not appear to speed up payments, but rather ease the cost to the banks.


Arguments to deploy

  • Weazy
  • 23/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 21:41

We should point out too that under the new EU directive we either pay tax on deposits or agree to disclosure to our authorities. There is a feeling abroad that depositors were simply greedy. In my case I live in Spain and was not able to open a UK account on the internet and I pay UK tax on my pension and on my IOM deposit income.


Hello Calpespain

  • Claus
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 18:58

Calpespain, are you by any chance a resident of Gibraltar? If so, would you like to meet up and perhaps share some thoughts and ideas (maybe down a few pints?)
I cannot seem to see a link to try and make contact with you via this site, so i will leave it up to you to contac me - click on my name and you should see a way to do so... all the best anyway. Good luck to you and everyone else


IOM compensation scheme

  • dfh
  • 22/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 16:28

Tynwald vote is huge majority (21/1)for the motion of committing £150m of IoM govt assets to supporting the depositors compensation scheme should KFS(IOM) go into liquidation on 24.10.08 Presumably full details will be made public soon....


Is my maths at fault?

  • michelenona
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 18:27

Using the figure of £50,000 per depositor limit, doesn't the £150 million represent only 300 such payments? Consequently, I would have thought that £150 million was a long way short of what was required in compensation funds.

According to our poll figures, there have been 981 votes on amounts lost. 981 depositors are obviously just the tip of the iceberg - if the '10,000 depositors' figure quoted in press statements is reasonably accurate. Okay, let's say our numbers represent one tenth of the actual depositors. Within our ranks, 641 people have invested £50,000 or more. If we multiple that number by ten... gulp!

It doesn't seem to me that many of us will be getting any kind of compensation soon. Hey, it might become a new lottery in the IoM - 300 depsoitors get the big prize, and the remainder? Oh, bad luck... them's the breaks!

Mind you, I'm still optimistic that at the zenith hour, Gordon Brown will be forced to acknowledge his mistake, and rectify it... or there will be some other kind of divine intervention (thanks to expat's little daughter's relationship with Bridge fairies, perhaps?)... and 100% of our funds will be deemed safe.
Michele


The real figures so far

  • Claus
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 18:48

The number of individuals with cash deposits in KSF (IoM) totalled 8,168 and the bank's liabilities totalled £821 million, of which £160 were joint accounts, £275 million was sole accounts and £386 million was in corporate and trust accounts. (IOM Today, 21.10.08)

Since joint depositors receive £100,000 and the number of actual account in joint names is undisclosed, and since corporate compensation is now £20,000 ,an approx payout figure would be around £450m

If the IOM Government pledges £150m, this effectively means contributions from all other IOM banks is in the region of £300m

Because the provisional liquidator has found a hundred million o so, we should so far see around 12p per £ of our money back. Assets such as the Investment side of KSF IOM is now sold and all these developments will mean the pot will increase in value. So for anyone thinking we have lost it all, please, keep your spirits up and keep up the fight. We may loose the battle but we have certainly not lost the war.


your maths and mine

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 18:36

You are correct
I dont want their half halfhearted 'compensation' how can we be compensated for losing our life savings?


£150,000,000 divided by

  • occams razor
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 18:31

£150,000,000 divided by £50,000 = 3000 depositors, not 300
There are approximately 8,000.
The DCS is still not the solution to this mess though.


OOPS!!!

  • michelenona
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 18:43

Yes, my maths indeed at fault. How embarrassing! I shouldn't have used my calculator - have just discovered it doesn't register the last zero when entering the 150,000,000. Should have done the sum in my head! Thanks for rectifying my glaring mistake, occams razor. And no, in case you're wondering, I'm not blonde. :)
Michele


150 million - Zero comfort

  • chb
  • 10/10/08 15/10/09
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 18:41

For those savers via Skandia, Norwich Union etc we will not be sharing the 150 million -
600-700 of us would receive 15k per household from so called Insurance Companies (who failed to match even the ioM derisory guarantee). Defeat is unthinkable


next press release

  • arny
  • 15/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 19:39

Surely this information about 15k Insurance guarantees from mainland companies should be included.


But they didn't all have 50K

  • Captain Mainwaring
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 18:32

But they didn't all have 50K or more invested.


I didn't say that they did,

  • occams razor
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 18:45

I didn't say that they did, only that the maths was incorrect.
According to our poll, 35% had less than £50k, 65% had more.
That's only polling users on this site though, there's another 6,000 to 7,000 of them out there.
That means even when finally paid out, 65% of users here will lose out under the DCS, hence why it isn't the solution.


quite right, and we always

  • Captain Mainwaring
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 18:51

quite right, and we always knew that - the poll will be hugely skewed away fom the small depositors, the ones who are covered and will just sit back and not post or vote.

I'd say there was a good reason why that number had been conjured up, in terms of the time that it will take for people to get paid out.


God, Mainwaring, you are a

  • go mann
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 19:17

God, Mainwaring, you are a real ray of gloom on a gloomy day, aren't you.
Negativity on legs, and possibly the best chosen username on this Forum.

Small depositor = check
Silver Surfer = check
Moneysupermarket = check
Moneysavingexpert = check
On this Forum = check
Rich barsteward = no


http://www.concentric.net/~ma

  • Captain Mainwaring
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 19:34

http://www.concentric.net/~marlowe/curdef.shtml

And if you call 200+K a small depositor, then I'll bugger off and leave all you big boys with all the answers.


I didn't say that either

  • occams razor
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 19:08

I didn't say that either.
I said the poll only represented registered users of this website.
There are a myriad of reasons why the other 6,000 to 7,000 users haven't found or are registered on this site.
I don't think anyone can say whether it is skewed one way or the other.
There may be plenty of people with small amounts who are just "sitting back".
There may also be plenty of millionaires who simply don't use the internet.
There may be plenty of people in remote parts of the world who haven't even heard about what's happened to KSFIOM and may have either small or large amounts.
I can't see any solid basis in which to say the skew is one way or the other, without having access to KSFIOM's detailed accounts.


Therefore any speculation as

  • Captain Mainwaring
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 19:14

Therefore any speculation as the DCS is really not of any value - do we even know the true liability that the bank has towards creditors?

In any case as voiced by others, the scheme is of no use to me, and will probably be even less use when the full details of claimants and compensation payout timescale is released.


IOM Compensation scheme - SITE ADMINISTRATORS

  • dfh
  • 22/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 16:16

Manx radio.com is currently (23 Oct 08 1714 BST) airing the debate in the Tynwald on radical changes to the IOM depositors compensator scheme which essentially involves the Manx govt in giving a £150m commitment to the scheme(and allowing borrowing to achieve this) "in an effort to bring funds forward quickly and to help speedy payout" [Treasury Minister] Vote to follow - much support for the motion


Motion Carried

  • BustedFlat
  • 20/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 16:23

Yep, looks like they voted for bringing the £150mio forward.
Media attention was mentioned.


Off Shore

  • shafted
  • 10/10/08 12/12/09
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 15:41

Great article in independent, i previously posted i had seen on bloomberk thet GB had said he wanted to see and end to off shore banking, he is obviously trying to do it by stealing our money!!!!


GB declares war

  • mikeinfrance
  • 12/10/08 28/09/09
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 16:48

I heard something about GB saying this a few days ago but don't know how true it might be.Can you provide a link
to an article or anything where you've seen this reported..If he really did say it couldn't that be another angle for the media to get their teeth into....Gordon declares war on IOM by stealing savers money!!


LIQUIDATION & LAWYER'S COMMENTS

  • everhopeful
  • 11/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 12:42

Those who have agreed to support the initial round of legal action will have received a letter this morning from the law firm part of which advises that we will have a legal rep. present at Friday's hearing and also not to be too concerned if the liquidation process is begun.

QUOTE "Finally, as I have mentioned before, I have instructed advocates on the Isle of Man to attend the hearing for the appointment of the liquidator tomorrow. There is a possibility that the hearing may be adjourned to a later date but, if not, I do not believe that anyone should be too concerned about the liquidation being made formal. A liquidation will only be the start of a process which ultimately could be driven to a large extent by the people who are owed money which would include those people with money still in the IOM. "UNQUOTE

It is worth adding your name and shekhels (GBP100-) to the legal action I think at least initially and you only have until the end of tomorrow to do so. More people=lmore clout & lower average costs.


Costs of the action

  • uptight61
  • 14/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 19:40

Are you aware of the costs of the legal action? Apart from the upfront 100 pounds, I have the impression that one also has to pay other costs before we get recompensed (if ever). The firm sent me an attachment concerning this but I was unable to open it. Can you, or anybody else for that matter, help me?


SUGGESTIONS from michelenona's daughter

  • michelenona
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 10:22

Someone on your website suggested emailing the leader of the opposition in Uk to see if he was interested in using the Isle of Man questions as ammunition against Gordon Brown (and his handling of this situation). While I think that any opposition party would want to stay well clear of accidentally finding themselves being made the government at a time like this where they would inherit massive debt from Gordon Brown's promises to uphold banks... I also think that perhaps your forum should be trying to ask the opposition another couple of questions.

No doubt the Opposition Party (conservatives) must have had their own lawyers looking at this whole debacle and checking on the legality of all of the actions the UK govt took. Why not ask the Conservative leader two things - one - if their party would be prepared to share any of those legal opinions with the depositors to assist them in their action. And secondly to get the opposition to ask questions in parliament about why those records are sealed from the liquidators if that is indeed the case.

My mother is michelenona so I am submitting this under her membership. One thing my mum did in her emails and letters was to include a photo of herself to personalise the whole thing. Too many people are being lumped into this 8000+ depositors or into stereotypes about the type of peson who banked with IOM subsidiary. My suggestion is that everyone on the forum send a photo in of themselves or their families and that those photos are sent en masse in mailouts to parliament, to IOM, FSA, FSC, all media contacts etc - put as many faces to the tragic situation as possible to humanise your plight. You don't need to match up names with photos - in fact I guess you could go download as many photos of depressed looking people from the internet as you like and bung them on although that may hurt your cause somewhat if discovered later. The main thing is to get some faces in their faces.

Good luck for tomorrow - keep up the good work, whoever is doing what. Has anyone had a chance to talk to a lawyer about a class action against UK govt, Iceland, the bank, the IOM or anyone? Presumably some legal advice could make all the difference and is any lawyer acting on behalf of depositors at any of these court proceedings regarding liquidation or is it up to Mike Simpson or to any court official who feels they ought to speak up? Who is representing IOM depositor interests legally? Just curious - perhaps it is something that has already been discussed and I have missed it.

Best wishes - Tanya


"ANYTHING LESS THAN 100% IS NOT ACCEPTABLE"

  • calpespain
  • 12/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Wed, 22/10/2008 - 22:53

"ANYTHING LESS THAN 100% IS NOT ACCEPTABLE"

I am so pleased that this post I initiated has caused quite a bit of reaction and comment. Some quite useful and gives some of us hope. I thank you all for your valid and informative wise words, please keep up your work and keep sending out those emails, we are getting attention locally, but not worldwide. Foe those of you outside of Europe and the UK main Island, please contact all of your local news stations and journalists on the weekly telegraph and other such much read worldwide distributed newspapers. Remember one letter mean nothing but 20+ has an impact.

GOOD WORK EVERYONE KEEP UP THE PRESSURE AND REMEMBER
"ANYTHING LESS THAN 100% IS NOT ACCEPTABLE"


conjecture

  • rippedoff
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 06:40

Hang on guys, lets not slip the noose over our necks just yet. If anyone really does know what's going to happen tomorrow they are probably not the ones commenting on this site (although they may be reading it...). I for one trust that for whatever reason/hidden agena the chief ministers statement yesterday ;

"I am however willing to say that our efforts
internationally are directed at seeking to prevent Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander Isle of
Man going into liquidation."

is a genuine reflection of his wishes. We just don't what what will happen. Lets try and keep positive. Whatever happens tomorrow will NOT be the end of this story.....


If only the Chief Minister

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 08:50

If only the Chief Minister was calling the shots. See today's news item where the vote went against Aspden standing before the bar to answer questions rearding the collapde of KFSIOM. FSC is a law unto itself, it is the key to unwrapping this whole affair (together with FSA).

http://wwhttp://www.manxradio.com/readNEwsItem.aspx?id=27046


contacting media

  • Fred
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Wed, 22/10/2008 - 16:51

I agree that we need to contact as many persons as possible. I am outside the UK, and in fact the entire British Empire, and only know the major players mentioned in the news. It would be helpful if someone would compile a list of people to be contacted in government and in the press, with e-mail adddresses, etc. so that I an others could do more.


EMAIL

  • calpespain
  • 12/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Wed, 22/10/2008 - 22:33

LOOK UNDER MEDIA I HAVE PUT A FULL LIST THERE>>>


List of contacts' email addresses

  • ianhkhi
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 17:02

Calpespain, can you be more specific please? You say in your "EMAIL" post "Look under media I have put a full list there". Can't find it.


Agree

  • Julienne
  • 16/10/08 31/08/09
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  • Wed, 22/10/2008 - 18:14

I do agree with this - a list of suitable e-mail addresses would not only help those in the far flung places of the world -(and I know how isolating that is as I normally live in China, but am able to be here in UK by good fortune and stay updated on UK time)
A list would also help those closer to home as well - I have mailed numerous people over the passed few days and have to constantly go back to the new folder in by mail box marked "Iceland " to check if I have already done them!!