INFORMATION FROM THE LONDON TEAM

  • Diver
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
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Posted: Tue, 02/12/2008 - 19:38

This is to let you all know that the 3 users you have known as the ‘London Team’ will now be concentrating all their efforts on the legal matters in the IoM and in the UK. Teapot and Sleeplessnight have gone above and beyond the call of duty in their tireless 24/7 efforts to coordinate press releases, the media requests, newspapers and website development and also in dealing with hundreds of queries from fellow depositors. Now it’s time for them to concentrate on the legal side of our fight.

It has been a very long 2 months since this all first came crashing down and having been there since day 1 it would be unfair to ask them to continue to shoulder an even greater workload. The background knowledge and media contacts/information they have is invaluable and must not be discarded however with a new set of people emerging to take on new roles, it is important the group does not try to reinvent the wheel and duplicate effort. Sleepless and Teapot will still be available to ensure continuity of the press activity and the new information only website - especially since the focus is likely to be on information emerging from legal developments.

For clarity, from now on the old London Team will be known as the Legal Team, allowing others to take on responsibility for depositor welfare, chat website, funding, IT development & maintenance, accounting etc.
All legal issues will, from now on, be addressed on our main website www.ksfiomdepositors.org. This is an information only website and does not allow for comments from users.

To find updates on legal issues please select ‘legal’ from the drop down menu at the top of your screen and for information on funding and how to donate please select ‘funding’ from the drop down menu.

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Another very big thank you

  • Jean-Charles Marlier
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Wed, 03/12/2008 - 15:05

Another very big thank you Diver,and the "London Team",for everything you have done so far,and I would be only too pleased to add some contribution should you require it.One thing tho,which kind of intrigue me,what is exactly, John Wright,was that the Lawyer's name that you appointed? What is he planning to do?I haven't read any comments about his intentions?!Have you apppointed another lawyer,or are you planning to?Since you are planning to set up a "Legal Team"may be some comments/details about that would be very welcome.
I do hope,and I am sure many members would like to know too,that is if my question is not "off the mark",of course,
Thank you again,and let's hope for the best in trying to get all our money back....
Jean-Charles


John Wright

  • mikeinfrance
  • 12/10/08 28/09/09
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  • Thu, 04/12/2008 - 00:21

There was a list of questions John Wright was going to ask and things he was going to do, which was posted on another thread somewhere (by Diver?) but I can no longer find that thread. Can someone advise us where the results of his investigations is likely to be posted?

I have posted on another thread, a comment regarding the new 2nd liquidator prov. who I understood was to be London based for the purpose of attempting the recovery of our £600M (to quote the figure which E & Y are understood to have confirmed at the meeting on Wednesday) ; where is he, and why was he not at the E&Y meeting? Anybody know?


A reminder that anything

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
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  • Fri, 05/12/2008 - 14:22

A reminder that anything relating to our legal strategy cannot be posted on this site - although most forums areas are visible to registered members only, there is no control over who can register themselves, so effectively any information posted is visible to the public (including potentially "unfriendly" parties.) To some extent, even our PR strategy cannot be discussed for the same reason.


mikeinfrance - message from Ally yesterday said MS attended E&Y

  • sabi Star
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 05/12/2008 - 09:25

There is a short message at 9.13 a.m on the E & Y forum by Ally which says M. Simpson was at the E & Y meeting in London - this is all I could find about that matter.


PWC did attend

  • Ally
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 05/12/2008 - 10:01

Sabi

That is correct 100% Mke Simpson attended the meeting.

Also IoM govt did send representatives but they were refused entry as they were not directly creditors of KSF UK.

Whether Mr. Spratt (the joint liquidator of KSF IOM based in London) attended or not I really don't know.


please go to the new site and locate under Legal

  • sleeplessnight
  • 10/10/08 30/06/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 04/12/2008 - 00:43

then select IOM advocate


donation to legal fund sent to HSBC

  • felosleet
  • 14/11/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 04/12/2008 - 22:58

Sleepless - can you communicate to WIMC that I have sent 50GBP by cheque to the HSBC address and account number given out last week. I now see that there is a new bank/account.
Thanks to all for continued efforts.


send me an email via my

  • sleeplessnight
  • 10/10/08 30/06/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 04/12/2008 - 23:49

send me an email via my contact to remind me... it's late!


sleeplessnight.. been there..

  • mikeinfrance
  • 12/10/08 28/09/09
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  • Thu, 04/12/2008 - 00:52

sleeplessnight I've been there a few times, and just now, but see nothing other than this title: KSFIOM report - John Wright- hearing 27th November 2008


IoM rep

  • Anonymous
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  • Fri, 05/12/2008 - 11:39

John Wright is good - you have my personal assurance on that. He was my recommendation based on many hours of talking to many lawyers in the IoM.

I am personally confident, from having spoken to many lawyers in London and the island, that the two lawyers that I recommended and the "London team" ultimately chose to instruct - John Wright in IoM and David Green at Edwin Coe in London - are amongst the best that the depositors could have obtained. So much so that now I am looking, at the request of several small depositors, into the possibility of separate representation for them, I am as yet unable to do as well in either location.


IOM Rep

  • Tricky Dicky
  • 24/10/08 30/05/09
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  • Fri, 05/12/2008 - 11:56

Reading your last comment above, would you explain the logic behind the seperate representation of several small depositors, and would this not be better done within the Group 'less than 50K' which is I believe the amounts you were talking about in another posting


At present there is no

  • Anonymous
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  • Fri, 05/12/2008 - 12:52

At present there is no separate representation of small depositors. However, I have in the past few days received several requests (I think about 8 in total) asking for precisely this. The "logic", which is not necessarily my own but that of those making the requests to me, is that many large depositors have during the past several weeks posted comments that suggest there is a conflict between small and large depositors in respect of the triggering of the DCS and the desire to proceed directly to liquidation.

I have in the past argued against there being a genuine substantive conflict but in favour of proceeding to liquidation, as a result of which I have several times been wrongly accused by the usual offenders of having a hidden agenda of wanting to recover my own small deposit as soon as possible and of not giving adequate consideration to the interests of large depositors. However, I am not any longer in any doubt that there are a number of large depositors who regard their interests as having priority over those of small depositors and depositors in general and who are promoting an agenda which disbenefits small depositors and those depositors in genuine hardship.

Also, it is my view that the position taken by the IoM government, that of doing everything in their power to delay liquidation and avoid triggering the DCS, will naturally cause disbenefit to small depositors and those in hardship. Doubtless this was not a situation ever envisaged by those who promoted the DCS itself. Therefore I can see the force of the small depositors argument and accordingly I am looking into the possibly of separate representation for them. Whether there is also a need to separate off those in genuine hardship, or whether they can be subsumed into the group of small depositors, is something that I have not yet looked into properly.


Separate representation for small depositors

  • colinalvin63
  • 28/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Fri, 05/12/2008 - 14:02

Elgee, I don't think that there is a clear split between depositors.

If anything it is large depositors that are facing more hardship because the savings they had in Kaupthing were their life savings, and not just a small lump sum on the side.

There is no clear cut mapping of either large or small depositors facing hardship. It will be a mixture of both large and small depositors, so you are likely to achieve nothing in considering creating a separate group for small depositors. How would you define hardship for starters ? Everyone is going to have a different opinion as to what hardship is.

A frugal person might not consider it hardship living economically, but a spend-thrift who has just had their source of credit curtailed, and has to make some cut-backs might consider that as hardship. It's very subjective.

My definition of hardship would be :-

  • Anyone who is unable to meet their basic financial obligations each month (Eg. Bills, taxes, rent, mortgage etc).
  • Anyone who is at risk of losing their home or accommodation because they can't afford payments.
  • Anyone who is at risk of losing their business.
  • Anyone who can't afford to feed or clothe themselves.
  • Those who's income is less than their expenditure, even after making cut-backs.

Starts getting very wooly doesn't it ? I'm sure there will be some people who would make false claims regarding the level of their poverty too. How would you go about proving that one ?


One more item fot the list . . .

  • drglowry
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 05/12/2008 - 15:41

I would include the theft of one's life / retirement savings to the list. The shock of being robbed and of being virtually powerless is certainly a hardship for many of us. In a civilised society, Government is supposed to defend the lives, rights, and property of its citizens. There have always been governments who used their power to "nationalise" the property and funds of groups that are out of favour. Nasser's nationalising of European interests and expelling of European nationals, after taking what was theirs, comes to mind. Has it really come to the point where the UK Government is no better than third-world dictatorships? Shame.


Colin Says

  • poppytwo
  • 06/11/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 05/12/2008 - 15:29

Colin just because I haven't got a huge pot of money doesn't mean it was a small sum on the side. It was everything to me.

The money in KSF was there to pay for materials on our barn conversion and to provide a backup for a small pension. As a result we haven't been able to finish our bedroom and bathroom and are living in a caravan and it's blinking freezing. For the last month all I have had to eat is soup made from pots and carrots. To be able to wash my hair and have a bath would be lovely. The pension payment for this and last month had to be utilised to pay the rates and the income tax plus social charges due in November.

I am not asking for sympathy just stating facts and I wish the best outcome possible for everyone no matter how much they had saved in the bank.


Colin says.........

  • Anonymous
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  • Fri, 05/12/2008 - 15:06

"If anything it is large depositors that are facing more hardship because the savings they had in Kaupthing were their life savings, and not just a small lump sum on the side."

SMALL SAVERS..........Whether or not you agree with Colin please (if you haven't done so already) 'join' the Up to £50,000 Group NOW !!


up to £50k Group

  • Tricky Dicky
  • 24/10/08 30/05/09
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  • Fri, 05/12/2008 - 13:40

I understand what you have said, I was under the impression from talks with ng re managing a group, that this is why the various Groups were formed so that members with specific needs could come together, and discuss the issues relevant to them - in the case you describe that would presumably be the up to £50k group which at the last count had 75 members - and if there is something that comes from that group, that has an affect or effect on the the rest of the members or groups, then that is what the main forum is for, or are you saying there is need for another group or sub group?


under 50K rep

  • Anonymous
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  • Fri, 05/12/2008 - 13:46

I agree that discussion of these matters should be taking place in the under 50k forum, and I too have discussed this with ng. Unfortunately it doesn't really work because the under 50k group have an obvious interest and a need to input into what is being said elsewhere on the forums, because it affects them too. However, when it comes to the question of separate legal action then obviously that ought to be confined to a specific forum if possible, and the existing one is as good as any.


Groups and forums

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
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  • Fri, 05/12/2008 - 14:12

Clarification about how things are set up ...

  • "Group topics" are visible only to members of those groups (topics can be posted into multiple groups and/or set "public").

  • "Forum topics" are visible to everyone (in most cases only to registered members) , but additionally shown in the Group view as part of that's group's "flow" of content.

Possible changes we are considering:

  • Remove all public views (public in this case meaning people who are not logged-in.)

  • Make forum topics work the same as group topics, i.e. visible only within the corresponding groups.

In summary, your discussion would best be implemented as a group topic in the <50k Group. It will not be truly private in the sense that group membership is currently open to anyone, however that too can be changed if required.


mike in france

  • sleeplessnight
  • 10/10/08 30/06/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 04/12/2008 - 23:53

that document contains his notes and responses to the hearing in red. Any questions asked that were answered on the day are summarized there. let me know if I have not answered the question entirely - sorry it is late!


to sleeplessnight Re: mike in france

  • Jerome.broke-in...
  • 14/10/08 14/07/09
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  • Fri, 05/12/2008 - 04:00

Sorry as mikeinfrance wrote all I can see under that link is the title KSFIOM report - John Wright- hearing 27th November 2008
There is no linked document or other written text.

Is it a broken link??


mike in france/jerome

  • sleeplessnight
  • 10/10/08 30/06/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 05/12/2008 - 08:43

apologies - file now attached


sleeplessnight..IOM advocate

  • mikeinfrance
  • 12/10/08 28/09/09
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  • Sat, 06/12/2008 - 05:32

sleeplessnight thanks for reattaching the file. My original question was " Can someone advise us where the results of his investigations is likely to be posted? " The file that's there lists the investigations I was referring to, so can we assume that he has no answers yet, but that when he does they will be posted in this same area ?


London Team

  • wipeout
  • 16/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Wed, 03/12/2008 - 14:47

Many thanks for the update and well done to all.

We will certainly continue to contribute to costs as necessary.


Thank you

  • WorriedWoman
  • 23/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Wed, 03/12/2008 - 13:41

I having nothing to offer except my sincere appreciation of everything that you ( the London team ) and others do for us.

I may be a poor worried woman but I am hopeful and extremely grateful.

THANK YOU :-)


Thank you ...

  • insameboat
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Wed, 03/12/2008 - 13:28

Thank you once again Diver and the Legal Team. We are a long way away and dont know what we would do without this lifeline. God bless you all


thank you

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 04/12/2008 - 01:19

Thank you all
For all you have done and for all you are doing.


thank you . . .

  • drglowry
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Wed, 03/12/2008 - 12:23

From those of us far away, our continued appreciation and thanks for the tireless effort, leadership, and support that you have provided from the beginning of this fiasco.


Please read the above .....

  • Diver
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Tue, 02/12/2008 - 19:38

thanks.


and thank you

  • KA
  • 14/10/08 29/06/09
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 03/12/2008 - 06:46

thank you to all the team. You have been wonderful .


London Team update 3 Dec 08

  • neilbkk
  • 10/10/08 08/06/09
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  • Wed, 03/12/2008 - 06:54

Diver and team ..

Thank you for this update it is much appreciated from those of us here in Thailand as members of the Thai Group.

You hopefully can imagine what a lifeline this site is along with your teams regular updates.

I have contributed to the legal fund and Expats hotel bills. I will continue to support this teams efforts in any way I can.