Iceland's richest man defends economic record

  • sami
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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Posted: Thu, 30/10/2008 - 18:17

This is interesting. It seems to implicate Icelandic authorities for allowing the banking system to collapse.

http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2008/10/30/icelands-richest-man-defends-...

Also I notice this below. It refers to the precarious position of Kaupthing Bank in March 2008. Certainly if things do not turn out better, I shall be suing my IFA for pointing me in Kaupthing's direction...

http://www.moneyweek.com/personal-finance/credit-default-swaps-how-to-sp...

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Icelandic Banks Top of Riskiness League

  • onions63
  • 24/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 07/11/2008 - 09:35

Money week

  • uptight61
  • 14/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Sat, 01/11/2008 - 20:57

Thank you, Sami, for posting the article contained within Money Week. I hope that it was at the top of my IFA's reading list! If you should have any other articles pertaining to the shaky condition of Kaupthing and other Icelandic banks before October, please would you post them in this forum. The same goes for anyone else who might read this and have material to contribute. Thank you. John


Our money landed with KSF

  • shellshocked
  • 23/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 13:26

Our money landed with KSF purely because of a buyout. We had been with the Derbyshire Building Society for the past 10 years. We'd never even heard of KSF until we received the letters about the takeover and of course the KSF letters assured us of their credentials stating the 100% parental guarantee!!! Does the Derbyshire not have any liability in all of this - we would not be with KSF if it were not for them.


Derbyshire

  • steve
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 13:30

There is a thread on this, done today, including a reply I had from the CEO Derbyshire Building Society


Derbyshire

  • shellshocked
  • 23/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 13:39

Where would I find it?


Derbyshire thread

  • steve
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 13:59

Got it. Just go to search at top of left hand side, type in Derbyshire, and it appears at top of google


Derbyshire

  • steve
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 13:53

Good question. How do you get to topics etc once they have dropped off the scroll on the right -hand side. Help please!


>>I shall be suing my IFA for

  • dawes
  • 24/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 21:10

>>I shall be suing my IFA for pointing me in Kaupthing's direction...

You should definitely do that if you can.

That article is quite interesting.

The Icelandic government basically refused to help the UK bail out its banks.


Any Professional who recommended an Icelandic bank after

  • dawes
  • 24/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 08:11

..Northern Rock should be fair game to be sued. That was the point when the real risk of banks failing was writ large. Icelandic banks were very high risk (they had a banking crisis in 2006). The inability of the Central Bank and the economy to backup the banks was open knowledge. Th fact that some many professionals were caught out by Iceland is no excuse - most organisations did their job and avoided banking there.

I dug up some articles on the Economist, I'm sure there will be more that should have got the alarm bells ringing.

http://www.economist.com/world/europe/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11090291

http://www.economist.com/finance/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11376540

http://www.economist.com/finance/displaystory.cfm?story_id=11985964
http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12381887&CFID=2862761...

http://www.economist.com/finance/displaystory.cfm?story_id=6746884

http://www.economist.com/finance/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10926523


IFA and Legal Action

  • Mrs Not Too Happy
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 08:31

I think the problem is that IFA's just never gave any though to the possibility of the bank going bust. It's as simple as that.


true

  • humphrey
  • 10/10/08 01/03/11
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 08:51

but then isn't that why we pay them vast amounts of money:

to make money in the good times and keep our money safe in the bad times.


humphrey - advice on letter to Ombudsmen

  • manx-person
  • 17/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Tue, 11/11/2008 - 19:55

I can't really review your letter I am afraid.
I wouldn't want the responsibility of missing some vital point; or a technical issue that would affect your claim.
I really think that this is an area where there is a common interest between bond-holders and maybe somewhere where they could arrange together for joint funding of the advice for the letter.

Sorry I cant help further, but I do have PI cover myself and I am reluctant to provide detailed advice in areas outside my specific knowledge.


IFA Based in Spain

  • gazfuk
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 13:10

Humphrey, would you happen to know if the same insurances are available to IFAs based in Spain as in the UK? Do the same arrangements for dealing with complaints apply?
If you don't know the answers, I would still appreciate a copy of your letter.

Thanks
Gary


Good advice

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 09:01

Unfortunatley, your IFA probably gave you good advice. What the UK Government did is unprecedented and could not have been forseen by anyone. We should keep our eye on the ball and make sure the UK Government start to put right a very big wrong.

Before we decided to use KFSIOM as a hop (current account) i spent weeks studying IOM/CI banks. There was nothing wrong with KSF IOM....


IFA ADVICE

  • mikepapa
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Sat, 01/11/2008 - 16:08

Hi Mat,

I tend to agree with you - don't think even the UK Gov anticipated the full fall out of their anti terrorist 'move' to secure Icesave deposits..... so hardly reasonable to expect an IFA to anticipate that one!

That said, if IFA has PI - I can understand folks going for it... if not, might be difficult.

BTW: It would be very interesting to know if any IFAs had personal funds in KSF IoM and are therefore caught in the same mess as the rest of us.
Any way we can find out without embarassment - say a quick poll or something?

Your thoughts?


Good advice - Bad advice

  • manx-person
  • 17/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 11:35

The Icelandic banks were said to be around 7.5 times more likely to fail than the average European Bank.
If the IFA was advising on the suitability of currents account they should have made the points about the level of compensation available, and the risk of failure that was available from market data.

Any IFA advising, if acting prudently, on where to open a Bank account should have explained that there was a correlation between risk and rate; and then asked for the clients views on these matters.

They should also have commented on the depositor protections available.

The IFA will have PI cover - If you were advised by an IFA on this matter then it is worth making a complaint.

It is essential that the complaint is well prepared and relates to the lack of adequacy of the advice. It might be helpful to consult a specialist in this area to compose the letter as the complaint well may form part of a claim in future.


I F A Advice

  • Mrs Not Too Happy
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 11:47

It's easy to look at the situation with the benefit of hindsight but I think that the typical IFA just looked at the attractive rate of interest, suggested the investment, got his commission and swiftly on to his next customer.

What a pest for these boys now the bank's gone bust - looks loke they could be in about as much trouble as we all are !!


IFA Advice

  • manx-person
  • 17/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 11:57

I agree thats what they probably did but they shouldn't have.
If they gave advice then they should have advised correctly.
Its not a case of hindsight, its a matter of professionalism, best advice, and duty of care.
Rather than looking at how much trouble they are in, why not look at it as a way of getting your money back?


I F A

  • Mrs Not Too Happy
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 12:03

Yes I totally agree and I think that we must all be on the same side and all fighting for 100% return. If not I can see legal actions flying about all over the place.

Personally speaking I'm tired of spending my life fighting with this one and that one. I'm looking for a quiet life (oh and with my savings back)


I F A

  • manx-person
  • 17/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 12:09

Well I hope that you all get your money back too.
But if you did receive poor advice from an IFA then they have PII which would be available to get your money back.
Just because IFAs are chatty salesman who treat you nice and say nice soothing things to you don't think that they aren't to blame.

At this stage I think that if they badly advised you then they are perhaps the best chance of getting your money back.

It is also one of the least complicated claims that can be made compared to the others referred to on this site


blood from a stone

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 12:12

I think that it would be easier to get blood out of a stone than money OUT of an IFA.
Good luck anyway


Blood from a stone

  • manx-person
  • 17/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 12:15

Well thats why they have PII cover
I agree they will wriggle, but they have got the reosurces in the PII to pay out, and if you can prove liability/negligence then its easier.

What are the alternatives; Iceland - FSC- IOMG - UKG

Its the easier target of all these I think


No way was investing in Iceland Good advice.

  • dawes
  • 24/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 11:14

An individual could have made that mistake, a processional gets paid not to.

All the information about the high risks were available.

Sue.


However...

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 09:03

... if it means you could get your money back - through their insurance - go for it!!! I would!


I, too, shall....

  • uptight61
  • 14/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 21:38

I, too, shall be suing my IFA if we do not get full restitiution of our monies. I had my money in the Bradford and Bingley up until a couple of months ago. The adviser was instructed to advise me on alternative offshore banks where I might park my savings. The printout that he sent me off the internet (I don't remember it's precise name...money facts??) had Kaupthing, together with Landsbanki and Anglo Irish recommended. Thank God I didn't go with Landsbanki (I did, however, get their prospectus!). He should have been cognizant that Icelandic Banks weren't the place to put money, particularly money coming OUT of the Bradford and Bingley (Isle of Man). Safety and security of the funds should have been his prime criterion when recommending deposit taking institutions, under the circumstances.


procedure

  • humphrey
  • 10/10/08 01/03/11
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 22:03

I have started the procedure:

Official complaint letter to IFA, asking him the right questions.

As soon as this hits his letterbox he has to acknowledge it and pass it onto his PI insurer.

He then has to answer complaint.

If you do not get satisfaction then go to ombudsman.

If you have a case then PI will wait to see what monies you get from IOM / Kaupthing/ liquidator.

It will then have to make up the difference, if your IFA has sufficient cover of course.

If anyone wants a draft letter then get in touch, likewise if you have a good letter then send it to me.


Letter

  • Eric
  • 01/11/08 31/05/09
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  • Sat, 01/11/2008 - 15:15

Humphrey,

I would very much appreciate a copy of your draft letter too.
Many thanks, Eric


Copy of letter

  • uptight61
  • 14/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 19:03

Hello Humphrey:
I tried writing to you after obtaining your contact details. However, it seems that you didn't receive my communication (I, myself, didn't receive a copy, either, so there could be a problem with the system). Please could you send me a copy at uptight61(?)live [dot] com. I really appreciate your help as I don't have the resources currently to go to a solicitor. Also, can you comment publicly about what one IFA said - that his backside was covered because the Isle of Man subsidiary had the parental guarantee. If this was in writing, or stated verbally, OK - but if not stated as above surely is not a valid form of defence??? Is an afterthought???


IFA get out

  • blondenowgrey
  • 29/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 12:58

Hi Humphrey

My IFA stated that the main point is that the Icelandic Government took on the parental guarentee of 100% when they nationalised KSF. Apparently this guarentee was originally given by Kaupthing when they took over S & F in (maybe, I think, possibly....) 2007. His argument is that because of this guarentee, the money was (at the time of giving his advice to invest) as safe as houses!

On this basis I don't know if any IFA could be held responsible, because surely, they would all use this as an adequate reason for their advice.

I would welcome anyone elses view point on this, as I really am not that knowledgeable and would appreciate any help I can get to recover my family's inheritance.

Many thanks and kind regards


IFA get out

  • Mrs Not Too Happy
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 13:05

Obviously your IFA has to come up with something to try and run out the back door . The question is how safe was the Icelandic Bank when the investment was taken out ? It follows therefore how safe was the guarantee ? A parent company guarantee is useless if the parent company is in trouble. From what I understand it's the Icelandic Bank that was in trouble not the IOM.


IFA get out

  • blondenowgrey
  • 29/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 13:32

Thank you for your response.

The investment was made in the early part of June, and my IFA says that the bank, KSF(IOM), had a AAA rating. I am not sure when the Icelandic economy started getting wobbley, nor at what point Kaupthing started to become unglued, but then in my ignorance I thought SF(IOM) was sound until the UK government froze their assets....or was it KSF(IOM)'s assets..... Aghhhhhhhhhh


IFA get out

  • manx-person
  • 17/10/08 31/05/09
  • not a depositor
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 13:37

i don't think the IoM branch had an AAA - rating did it?
Did they advise on the lower DCS limits?
There was information in the public domain about Iceland at that stage


Complaint letter

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 10:52

Humphery,

Please could you also let me have a copy of your draft letter.
Thanks! Horacio.


Complaint letter

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 10:52

Humphery,

Please could you also let me have a copy of your draft letter.
Thanks! Horacio.


Humphrey could you also

  • TheThurloSquire
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 09:34

Humphrey could you also let me have a copy of your draft letter...saves us all re inventing the wheel. Thanks.


Yes Humphrey, it would help to have a draft

  • sami
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 07:12

Would you mind sending me a copy of your draft letter, as I am concerned about the best way to approach the IFA on this.

I feel very upset that the IFA has always shown a lot of disregard for things I've asked about in the past, which were important to me even if not to him. Now reading about the London and IOM teams here on this forum I'm aware just how hard they are working for all of us, in contrast to my IFA who in the past has sometimes taken nearly two weeks just to answer an important e-mail about my finances.


Sami, you need to enable your contact info

  • humphrey
  • 10/10/08 01/03/11
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 08:20

I can't contact you via the site as you have not enabled contact in your profile. Easiest thing is to contact me by clicking on my name, and send me an email address and I will send you the letter.


Is 'contact other users' working?

  • barnie
  • 19/10/08 31/03/10
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 10:39

Humphrey, I would like a copy of your draft letter please.

I did try to send this request last night through the 'contact other users' facility and as a check ticked the box 'send a copy to yourself'. The copy to myself has not arrived. Did you receive anything from me?


contact other users

  • masu
  • 10/10/08 30/04/14
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 10:51

Have the same problem .I wrote to diver ticking copy to my inbox . It has not appeared!


procedure

  • barbarajee
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 22:23

the ifa has 3 months to answer the official complaint although they have to file an insurance claim immediately. we are doing this privately. the ombudsman will take too long. after 3 months we are going to issue proceedings immediately. our solicitor has already sent the preliminary letter and we have had meetings with our solicitor who says our case is cut and dried. it was professional negligence, no doubt about it. mist ifas have sufficient insurance provided they are under the fsa.


Redress of grievance

  • uptight61
  • 14/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 23:46

Hello barbara - I can't email you privately about the above as your adress is not retrievable. Could you possibly contact me for I would appreciate more details concerning your case (if you are willing to share them, of course) to see if it pertains to mine.


procedure

  • barbarajee
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 19:21

sorry, dont know how to e mail you uptight61 but i can advise you to contact michael kennedy in manchester from Messrs Pannone who is dealing with our case and will be happy to advise you. tell him barbara reccommended you. he is s*** hot.


Thanks Barbara

  • uptight61
  • 14/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Sat, 01/11/2008 - 15:56

Thank you for the recommendation. I'm going back to Huddersfield in the next day or so so a quick visit to Manchester is on the cards. Could you give me an idea of fees etc (just consultation) as I've lost most of my money as a result of this sorry affair. My email adress is uptight61(?)live [dot] org. Also, if you would, could you email me your phone number and I could ring you about this matter when I get back to the UK (next week). I sincerely appreciate your help.
John (when I'm not uptight!)


procedure

  • barbarajee
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 22:23

the ifa has 3 months to answer the official complaint although they have to file an insurance claim immediately. we are doing this privately. the ombudsman will take too long. after 3 months we are going to issue proceedings immediately. our solicitor has already sent the preliminary letter and we have had meetings with our solicitor who says our case is cut and dried. it was professional negligence, no doubt about it. mist ifas have sufficient insurance provided they are under the fsa.


Talk to the ombudsman

  • uptight61
  • 14/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 21:41

Evidently, one can take the case to the financial ombudsman in London. No solicitors required! They can also indicate to you prior to filing your complaint whether it is worth pursuing your claim.


IFA Liability

  • manx-person
  • 17/10/08 31/05/09
  • not a depositor
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 21:15

There must be lots of people in this position; I wonder if they have used a common IFA. It is common for IFA's to use 'standard' disclosure letters in terms of clauses. If these letters inadequatley pointed out the risk factors then there may be scope for an aggregated claim I think that this is potentially an easier route for a claim for people. Following the implementation of the EUSTD there were a number of IFAs advising on Bonds as a solution to the problem of retention tax.