I SMELL A RAT!

  • conned
  • 13/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
Posted: Tue, 12/05/2009 - 10:26

Do you smell one too? Are we being deliberatly led into a trap? Will the vote be declared null and void because many people have not received their voting papers, thereby causing a further delay in proceedings? 12th May today and I have received no papers in France. They could have swum and walked here by now.

4.75
Your rating: None Average: 4.8 (8 votes)

Comment viewing options
Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

AIRMAIL OR NOT AIRMAIL THAT IS THE QUESTION?

  • conned
  • 13/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Wed, 13/05/2009 - 07:39

That does not seem relevant when you think that my voting papers could have walked to France by this time.


Rat or no

  • brianbrasil1
  • 17/11/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 14/05/2009 - 13:53

There's lots of speculation, I've asked for some facts:

Dear Mike Simpson

Obviously several hundred depositors (including me) have not had information in the post about the SoA. There is a great deal of talk about the reason for this - including a number of conspiracy theories..

Can you please say:

What date they were dispatched?
How were they dispatched - airmail, through a handling company or however?
Are there certificates of posting and references that intended recipients can search to discover where the documents are now - if they ever were posted?

"Mike's reply was:"

The documents were dispatched to you from the UK on 27 April 2009 by Royal Mail air mail to your address as noted below. As an officer of the Isle of Man Court, I am required to show evidence of postage. However, the documents were not issued recorded delivery and as such individual tracing is not possible.

I am very concerned that you and others have not yet received the original documents. Please let me know if you have not been able to download the documents from the bank's website and I will get them emailed to you.

Regards

Mike

"And my further comment:"
To be honest, if the documents weren't dispatched until April 27, they are unlikely to arrive until the end of this week or next as this is the 'normal' posting time. It seems that your expectations of international postage were pretty unrealistic given the time scale of the vote. Even courier services take 10 days or more to get here.

Thank you


there is no rat, just ineptitude

  • KA
  • 14/10/08 29/06/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 12/05/2009 - 14:57

So NO : The voting will not be declared null and void because sending downloaded forms by fax or e-mail is a legitimate way of voting. And we have received hundred and hundreds of these correctly submitted forms so do not worry if you have not received the originals. You CAN still vote . Please do so !


KA, the problem is....

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Tue, 12/05/2009 - 15:41

If many on this site have not received the voting forms as of May 12th, then I believe it is fair to say that many more who are part of the 70% who are not on this site are also missing their forms and may not even be aware that a vote is taking place.

It will be very interesting to learn how many votes are actually cast and counted.


Hi Undone

  • giveus backourfunds
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 12/05/2009 - 16:06

Surely there cannot be many people who are not aware of the KSF situation as they would have in normal circumstances had statements and be expecting interst and so as they had neither would surely be suspicious ?

The voting will be interesting , the many poeple who do not go on the site do you suspect they are in the under £50K group and now seem content with whichever way it goes ? I may be wrong but the ones that are left and seem to comment here are the over £50K and do not want the SOA.

On the local manx radio the DAG were quoted today saying the SOA falls well short for depositors.

For the record I stil belive the SOA is the best option but I am going next week to hear what is being said so will vote then.


SoA best option?

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Wed, 13/05/2009 - 07:05

Do we have options? We know so little about the alternative, that it can hardly be called an option.

I could not vote for the SoA without knowing about the possible liquidation + DCS path.

I want to compare both. I don't trust the IoM, so I cannot trust the IoM's SoA.

Would the IoM kindly provide more, detailed info about possible returns via liquidation.


giveus backourfunds, re: your questions

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Tue, 12/05/2009 - 19:26

I agree that most, if not all, depositors would be aware of the KSF collapse and have had a letter, a statement and even EPS forms to fill in. However, I believe none of these gave any indication that an alternative scheme was being developed and would require one to fill in voting forms so I don't know how those depositors outside the Isle of Man would have knowledge of the voting requirement if they didn't receive their forms and are not on this website. No doubt some may access the Bank website and others may have recently called the Bank directly to inquire about their funds but can we be assured that they were told at that time about the vote and to download forms.

Regarding the class makeup of the uninformed depositors, it is anyone's guess.

I just hope this voting form mailing mess doesn't result in further delays due to legal challenges, which could be the case if the SOA is voted in.


For the record...

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 12/05/2009 - 18:06

If the SoA is accepted, either in its current form, or somewhat enhanced, it will be 'job jobbed', game over. The IoMG will crow its praises, 54% will receive their monies within the prescribed 100 days and 71% within a twelve month; the remaining 29% will be owed by far the greatest percentage of money still missing - and will wait years and years to get back what little will be left of it. Many will be DEAD by then, no longer with us; their families grieving and wondering for the rest of their own lives what it was all for: the scrimping, saving and going without.

The SoA is a contract with the Treasury, once accepted its a 'done deed', no turning back; no positive implementations; no changing the power held over those depositors left hanging, their lives forever broken by this wretched and diabolical injustice. But no one will give a damn, because the SoA will be trumpeted a success, the big percentage numbers (excluding the biggest of them all) will be emblazoned across the tabloids, and Brown and Bell will be declaring what a great job the IoM has done for the depositors - and we will see and hear more lies and spin than we can stomach.

DCS or SoA, a few weeks here, or many years there, somewhere in 2015, depositors much older, twisted and soured by this tragic travesty.


Icecrusher

  • giveus backourfunds
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 12/05/2009 - 18:18

Yes the pain is felt my friend, I think neither is the best solution for anyone but we have to decide. If the SOA is not actioned I just think we are then going into the unkown, your comments are understood but I think we have to put out annoyanace and anger to one side against IOMG and think what is the best solution.

Next week will decide and at least we will have some idea what to face as surely you dont want this to drag on without solution, 71% will get their money back with twelve months is not great but 6 months ago we would have maybe taken that.

We all just have to vote how we see best and live with your decision.


Ice I'm 58, I have a young

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 12/05/2009 - 18:42

Ice
I'm 58, I have a young daughter to bring up, if I took the attitude that the pain and misery this causes was enough to beat me I would never have stood up and tried, never have fought, whether you and I agree 100% is irrelevant, what is relevant is that we get the best we can. There is no purpose in cutting off our noses to spite our faces simply as some gesture of punishment, some abstract. No matter how this goes now we all need to walk away with our dignity in place and our anger in control.

We've had 8 months of this and I am now planning a future for my family and looking to a new day, the past is as it is, no amount of grieving is going to change it now, face the future with pride and know that you fought hard. We are not finished yet, and I for one will not go quietly into the night over this. I reckon we'll get 80%+, which isn't what I want, but at least I'll see the burying of Gordon Browns political career, a sort of bargain with the devil I have!! There has been anger enough on this forum over the months, time to think clearly and do what is best for each person. Don't let the pain eat you, I did once many years ago and took a long time to get over it, I'll get over this a lot faster and face the day with my dignity intact. Life goes on my friend, believe me, I lost it all in 1992 and have proved I could do it all over again and still lose it!!!!

You have fought hard Ice, remember it and take pride in it.
Steve


80%

  • chipmunk
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Wed, 13/05/2009 - 05:53

You reckon 80% ..(reckon !) .but as a Bond holder and through a life company how many years do you think that will take under SOA .....and the ongoing worry so many will ave to endure worrying over so many years about just what the IOM are planning now.....at least under liquidation we can fight another day....under SOA are we not dead ducks ...........and believe Gordon Brown is as good as gone anyway......

I am interested in yor comment...........even at this late date Iam undecided..........

AND..........you are young (ish) with a good job............many like me are retired (bloody old actally) and no job.....not easy to just 'Move on'


Dignity?

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Wed, 13/05/2009 - 03:40

Expat I dont see what dignity has to do with anything.

There is nothing dignified about poverty or homelessness and many people are in that position.

Many other depositors are retired so cannot face the future with anything but trepidation.

I dont care about Gordon Browns political career I care about getting my life savings back.

If the IOM buried ITS pride and asked for a loan it would save ITS dignity and reputation

and in doing so would save hundreds of people from a bleak and insecure old age.


Each to their own I have no

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Wed, 13/05/2009 - 03:46

Each to their own I have no choice in th fact that my bank has gone bust for whatever reason, but I do have a choice in how I react. I choose not to let it beat me.


What is this?

  • follow_the_tao
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Wed, 13/05/2009 - 06:19

As I understand it there currently is the possibility that the SoA will be voted down.
From only the information I see on the site there is no reason for those that have the power and interest to have voted for the SoA.
So many votes have been given to DAG that Edwin Coe are not sending out 'receipts'. I wont give the number I was quoted but I see no reason not to assume we might very well manage to scotch the SoA.

'Expat' now 'works' with 'Lieben'. So does he know something about how that group is going to vote that he is not revealing?

In that case we ought to be considering seriously how we will capitalise on this. As far as I'm concerned I'm quite happy to keep contributing to the legal fund and keep lobbying.
As far as I see it the facts are on the table and those that were hiding before now have nowhere to hide.

What is all this 'commiseration' stuff, where 'givus backourfunds' appears to be in bed with 'expat'?

What is this an apologists convention?!

It's not over till the fat lady sings.


Ice I'm 58, I have a young

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Tue, 12/05/2009 - 20:04

In spite of my disagreeing with expat over on or two things in the past, it appears that at least we are agreed on Gordon Brown being an appallingly bad prime minister.


@conned: The thought had not escaped me...

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 12/05/2009 - 11:41

The thought had not escaped me...

In any case, if these documents were indeed 'sent' on 27 April (as we are assured by the LP), then there's no way they can have been sent by airmail, clearly the only possible way to respect the LP's other assertion (see wombat's post elsewhere) thus:
"The joint Liquidators Provisionally are committed to ensuring the best possible return to creditors and have made every effort to provide information to creditors in a timely fashion."

I find it hard to believe they could be so ignorant/incompetent. I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that there are no depths to which they will not sink.

Question is what do we do about it? I feel sick.