Help with reply to MP re Derbyshire and FSA

  • petenorwich
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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Posted: Fri, 31/10/2008 - 06:37

I received this letter from my MP, dated October 21st: Can anyone help on how I should reply to him with reference to the 'regulatory implications of the transfer of funds from the Derbyshire to KSF?

Christopher RF Kiser MP, South west Norfolk, House of Commons, London SW1A OAA

Dear Mr xxx

Thank you for contacting me about the compensation for British savers with deposits in the offshore banks. I know that the coming weeks will be anxious ones for you in regard to your own saving in the Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander in the Isle of Man. I am happy to press the government on how it intends to help people in your position and have passed on your letter to the chancellor. I will let you have a copy of any reply I receive.

If you feel that you were not sufficiently warned of regulatory implications of the transfer of your funds in 2007 from Derbyshire Building Society to Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander Isle of man. I would be more than happy to make a representation on your behalf to the Financial Services Authority. To this, because of the data protection legislation, I need you to write to me at the above address, setting out what you were told, and how you believe this should have been handled. Once again, I thank you for taking the time to contact me, and I shall be in touch with you again as soon as I hear again from the Treasury.

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Derbyshire

  • Hanimal
  • 27/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 10/11/2008 - 15:20

How many people were never contacted by the Derbyshire prior to the acquisition by KSF? I for one (and another friend in Thailand for two) simply received letters - well after the acquisition - from KSF stating that they had taken over and that our money was completely safe. A quick look through their site and googling showed that they did not willingly or freely reveal they were an Icelandic bank. Certainly not in their letter to me. Their assurances that they were a large bank with many European branches actually fooled me into understanding they were German. The Derbyshire never gave us any warning or options.


Complain to FSA

  • nivit
  • 19/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Mon, 10/11/2008 - 11:41

It is quite clear that if the Derbyshire had not sold its IoM arm to KS&F IoM that in its current difficulties when absorbed by the Nationwide either the IoM operation would have continued or it would have been taken over by Nationwide IoM.

It is also a lie when Darling says that the HM gov. cannot intervene to protect savers in another jurisdiction. They have already set a precedent in bailing out Northern Rock Guernsey which by the way continues to take deposits!

Although the operation of the Derbyshire IoM and KS&F IoM are outside the remit of the FSA the behaviour the Derbyshire Building Society is not. It is therefore I think worth the effort to complain about their failure to prevent the sale of Derbyshire IoM to KS&F IoM as Darling claims it was known to be suspect and we were all fools to invest in it.
The complaint should be specifically about FSA approving the sale it knew to be unsafe and not in reference to personal loss.

F.S.A.
25, The North Colonnade,
Canary Wharf,
London E14 5HS

If you accept my argument that the FSA has failed in its duty of care then a complaint about personal loss to the financial ombudsman is order citing the FSA’s failure.

complaint [dot] info(?)financial-ombudsman [dot] org [dot] uk


Derbyshire Building Society required to Treat Customers Fairly

  • darrmont
  • 15/10/08 31/05/09
  • not a depositor
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  • Mon, 10/11/2008 - 12:09

The FSA have been preaching about their "Treating Customers Fairly" requirement over this past 2 - 3 years and while it is very difficult to get much clarity from them with regard to what they actually mean there are a number of principals and outcomes which they stipulate.

Further details of company's responsibilities can be found on the FSA website but I consider it possible that the Derbyshire may have failed to treat customers fairly when they moved assets into the KSF IOM Ltd without giving the customers the option to access their fixed term bonds and move them elsewhere.

Depositors with the Derbyshire could write to the head office and assert that they have failed in their responsibility to treat them fairly and I think those who have accounts with both the onshore and IOM parts of the society will be in a particularly strong position to push a complaint on that basis.


The Derbyshire

  • upthecreek
  • 26/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 10/11/2008 - 08:42

If any of you watched the parliamentart speach on the 6th Nov you would have seen that Mark Todd Mp and Mary Creagh as well as Sir John Butterfill, and others did a fantastic job for us. Mark Todd is the Mp for Derbyshire so has a particular interest in the position.

The Derbyshire newspaper want people who had money with The Derbyshire building society to contact them, they did a story last Sat and want to do more tel Chris Mallet on 01332-253027.


Kaupthing Iceland Guarantee

  • mikeinfrance
  • 12/10/08 28/09/09
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 14:44

Although I have no involvment with the Derbyshire myself, I thought I'd mention that the Kaupthing Iceland "parental guarantee" seems to be a somewhat mysterious document and that, according to many posts on this site, has yet to be seen ! ie there is a considerable amount of secrecy surrounding its actual contents. Why not ask the Derbyshire to provide you with a copy of this parental guarantee and see what they say? Expat is probably the best person to update us re the publishing ,or not, of this guarantee.


to be honest i have had no

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 14:57

to be honest i have had no more success than anyone else on that one! but i keep beavering away at it!


This was

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 10/11/2008 - 09:43

This was quoted to me any amount of times by Aiden Doherty.
Possibly he could be subpoenaed ( if it comes to that) re the details.
It down in black and white in their blurb brochure so they cant just say they didnt say it.


Does anyone have a copy of

  • Captain Mainwaring
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 15:00

Does anyone have a copy of the Derbyshire PG? one would expect that the KSF PG could not have compromised the terms of the Derbyshire one unless they made a clear statement to the contrary ......


Quote "Important Customer Announcement"

  • dclf1947
  • 10/10/08 31/08/09
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 07:28

If it were me I would quote word for word from the statement (II) reference the Terms and Conditions of the Important Customer Announcement" sent on the 20 November, 2007. The words are"Kaupthing Bank hf having given an irrevocable and binding undertaking to ensure that, while Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander (isle of Man) limited remains its subsidiary, it will at all times be able to discharge its financial obligations as they fall due".
I did not know KSF (IOM) before that letter came but because of those words, the fact that The Derbyshire (Isle of Man) Limited are a respected company and the letter was signed by directors of both firms that I considered it to be very safe indeed. I consider that the implication is that whatever happens the deposit is 100% safe.
In case it may be useful also in the letter from KSF (IOM) also sent on the 20 November it states; "Kaupthing Bank hf, which has a credit rating from Moody's (Aa3) and from Fitch (A), will provide a full parental guarantee in respect of customer deposits. This guarantee will replace the parental guarantee from Derbyshire Building Society from the date of completion of the transaction, meaning that customers can continue to have peace of mind regarding the full security of their deposits."
I believe anybody reading these statements would consider that the implication is that their deposits are 100% safe.


Derbyshire client letters November 2007

  • swissloss
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Mon, 10/11/2008 - 16:34

Thanks for this background info - I have used this as a basis of a letter to the FSA about DBS's duty of care.

Reading this stuff again actually makes me really angry - this situation has (among other things) left me feeling stupid, naive and gullible. But when you see this kind of reassuring client literature you do ask yourself what else you were meant to do - conduct your own due diligence? Not to mention the fact that KSF IOM senior managers called up people who expressed concerns (as I've seen elsewhere on this site). Faced with that, why on earth would you even question the handover to KSF (IOM)?


Thanks dclf

  • petenorwich
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 07:43

Thanks for that. I suppose it also means that there as the guarantee moved away from Derbyshire, it also moved away from the UK FSA, and I wasn't aware of that, or that when the bank went into administration, that it wouldn't get a bailout like the B&B. Would that be the right line for my MP to take?


guarantee?

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 08:03

Interesting; Derbyshire as 'parent' could presumably have been made to uphold its guarantee by the FSA, but on transferring to KSF that enforcement would have moved to the Icelandic regulator. I certainly never gave any such thought to these matters, I 'trusted' the Derbyshire to be advising us all correctly and the documents referred to here were convincing. Who expects HMG to steal your rmoney anyway!!
Ice


derbyshire reply

  • steve
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 09:29

In order to help with this thread, may I copy you in on a reply I had from the CEO, Derbyshire Building Society. I will quote it verbatim:
Dear xxxxxx
Thank you for your letter of 17 October 2008

I am naturally saddened to learn that you and your wife have been caught up in the problems affecting global financial markets and the Icelandic banks particularly.

The Derbyshire made a considered decision in good faith to sell The Derbyshire (Isle of Man) Ltd to Kaupthing. Kaupthing Bank hf was a regulated institution, under the supervision of the Financial Supervisory Authority in Iceland. At the time of the sale and purchase, Kaupthing Bank hf enjoyed a stronger long-term credit rating than the Derbyshire Building Society.

On completion of the transaction, the parental guarantee previously provided to The Derbyshire (Isle of Man) Ltd customers by Derbyshire Building Society was replaced by an equivalent undertaking from Kaupthing Bank hf. The Financial Supervision Commission in the Isle of Man confirmed that, from its perspective, it considered the Derbyshire's guarantee to be "discharged and terminated" following completion of the sale.

We obviously regret that customers of our former subsidiary have any cause for concern over the safety of their savings. We have raised the matter with the relevant authorities, whom we know to be actively engaged, and will continue with this line of communication.

Yours sincerely

Graham E Picken
Chief Executive.

Unlike our friend, my MP does not seem at all interested in this and am still awaiting a reply to my second correspondence with him. I am still thinking about the best way forward if we are to persue the Derbyshire Building Society


Derbyshire building society

  • upthecreek
  • 26/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 10/11/2008 - 08:10

Dear Steve, seen you letter on KSF web site. You want to know who may be able to help you. Contact Mark Todd MP for south Derbyshire who spoke at the Parliamentary hearing on the 6th Nov and he and Mary Creagh and others did a fantastic job on our behalf. I have spoken with him myself and he seems very helpful, i am in the same boat as yourself, my MP is very busy but he has written to the FSA on our behalf. But if you can contact Mark Todd details on google, i am sure he will point you in the right direction. s. s.


Slinging Mud at the Derbyshire: It's Beginning to Stick!

  • VikingRaider
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 14:10

So who says persistence doesn't pay? I must admit, despite sharing similar reservations on the transfer to Kaupthing, the Derbyshire angle had not inspired much optimism. Nonetheless, the mudslinging really does appear to be working, especially as Derbyshire's role will probably come up in the scheduled parliamentary debate. Now remember, Derbyshire is expected to merge with the Nationwide in December, but is expected to continue operating as a separate subsidiary for some time to come so it needs to preserve its reputation. More buckets of mud please!


Derbyshire Negligence - Nationwide

  • Alastair
  • 10/10/08 30/09/09
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 14:19

For those with bonds that couldn't transfer after the takeover by KSF of their Derbyshire accounts it would be interested to consider the following: Given the Icelandic banking problems of 2006 and the clear inability of the Icelandic Central bank to backup the parent guarantee did The Derbyshire Building Society exercise its DUTY OF CARE to its investors in selling their accounts to Kaupthing.

If not then The Derbyshire will be another set of deep pockets worth pursuing. If Nationwide does merge with them they will assume the liabilities of The Derbyshire and they have even DEEPER pockets.

Might be worth putting The Nationwide on notice might make them think again about a merger.


Derbyshire I.O.M. Sale of buisness to KSF I.O.M.

  • jamjar
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 10/11/2008 - 11:47

As an ex-Derbyshire Offshore acc holder for more than 20yrs,yes we have been treated extremley bad,they have generated a lot of money for themselves,using ours,and thousands of other depositors hard earnt savings,for years and years.Apart from nice words of comfort,that our monies were safe,and would be under the stewardship of a BETTER bank,I find it absoleutly wrong that they could transfer my,ours,savings to another organisation,without a customer signed mandate,and a customer poll vote,to establish customer agreement,on such a sale of MY/OUR money.Secondly,and with all the global financial information,at these peoples fingertips,could DBS say they werent aware of any iminent financial problems towards Iceland,or Kaupthing hf,in particular,since it appears every other organisation knew,including B.O.E. FSA,etc,I dont think so,and I also beleive that could be proven.They obviously had an attractive offer from Kaupthing,generating more income for the DBS group,and securing another successful bonus year end ,for the chairman and his board of directors.They must have a buisness accumen,similar to a second hand car salesman,who as fast as he can,sells a dodgy motor,and runs as fast as he can,leaving you know who in the brown stuff.Is all this legal or not,if it is,then the the next time we all open a bank account,and/or place monies on deposit,then it MUST be in the presence of a well trained purveyor of the LAW,colleauges,I rest my case and comments,for now.


Derbyshire

  • steve
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 14:17

I really was beginning to think I was a lone voice on this. Come on all you ex Derbyshire savers, keep the pressure on the Derbyshire and let them use a bit of THEIR clout. All of this must be very embarrasing for them, don't let them off the hook!


Debyshire Swindle Email Bombardment!

  • VikingRaider
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 14:42

Just sent this to Derbyshire at customerservices(?)thederbyshire [dot] co [dot] uk

'Just a note to imform you that after considerable lobbying of MP's, the House of Commons has scheduled a debate on the Kaupthing, Singer and Friedlander (Isle of Man) Ltd. collapse and that the misfeasance and negligence of the Derbyshire Building Society in transferring the undertaking to a deeply troubled bank will be discussed in depth. Your senior executives may now have a chance to earn the whopping bungs they received from the Nationwide for acquiescing to the takeover -- although the Nationwide might have second thoughts. Please pass this note to the board of directors'.


Derbyshire

  • shellshocked
  • 23/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 15:25

Good one Vikingraider. I will do the same. Nothing is a wasted effort.


Derbyshire

  • shellshocked
  • 23/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 15:24

Good one Vikingraider. I will do the same. Nothing is a wasted effort.


Derbyshire

  • shellshocked
  • 23/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 14:35

Thanks Steve for the thread.
I will now be sending a letter out to the Derbyshire. Like everyone in this great big mess I am absolutely gutted and feel The Derbyshire owe something to us. We were loyal savers/investors with them for many years and they simply can't brush us off their shoulder.


Steve re Derbyshire

  • caledonia
  • 14/10/08 30/09/09
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 14:31

We are ex Derbyshire, in it for big money.
Can you email me the jist of how to attack them and I will be on the case immediately.
Many thanks.


Derbyshire

  • steve
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 14:44

I am beginning to think that having the Derbyshire on board with us is our only hope. Look at KandA 's comment about the Nationwide. I hadn't considered that line, but it would be a good one to add in to your letter to them. The more letters the Derbyshire get from its ex customers, the better. Numbers of letters now I think is the key - get them motivated and embarrass them into being more pro-active.


Chasing Derbyshire is a waste of energy

  • pwakeham
  • 20/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 15:04

See High Court IOM Petition - Clause 16 - the Kaupthing hf parental guarantee is the only relevant responsibility. Derbyshire, unless insane, should and will distance themselves from this action. An expression of regret is all their lawyers will permit. Let's focus where we can have impact.


Parental guarantee

  • mikeinfrance
  • 12/10/08 28/09/09
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 15:22

Nobody knows the contents of the Kaupthing Iceland guarantee except the FSC who will not make it's contents known...see my post at the top of the page


Derbyshire

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 15:16

I agree. A total waste of time and effort to involve The Derbyshire - they are not to blame for the present mess.


Derbyshire/Nationwide

  • Alastair
  • 10/10/08 30/09/09
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 15:32

Each to there own opinion but in the event we find ourselves without 100% then we should consider all options particularly solvent ones such as Derbyshire/Nationwide.


But the Mud Sticks -- to Derbyshire AND Nationwide!

  • VikingRaider
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 15:11

From a legal angle there may be limited room for manouvre. However, the Nationwide accepted the Derbyshire takeover only after HMG arm-twisting. According to ThisIsMoney, a legal action is being prepared to challenge the takeover and the whiff of 'Swindle' is the last thing a major financial institution needs right now.