Getting our message out in the IOM

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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Posted: Mon, 22/11/2010 - 10:44

Efforts to get renewed and positive attention from the IOM media are beginning to bear fruit.

As posted elsewhere, two articles were published yesterday (21 Nov) in the Manx Herald.

A short piece previously appeared in the IOM Examiner (printed edition only) on 9th November in response to DAG's press release of 3rd Nov. A Letter has been submitted in response, but as yet no news.

Manx Radio has today published the following on their website:

"DAG wants loan trust to repay depositors

It's more than two years since the collapse of Kaupthing Bank in the Isle of Man.

Thousands of depositors have so far received 50 per cent of their money, but will have to wait until 2017 for a final payment from the bank's liquidation.

The Depositors Action Group says for many, that will come too late.

The group now wants the United Kingdom and Isle of Man governments to underwrite a loan trust, to repay 100 per cent of their deposits."

The link and related audio clip are here: http://www.manxradio.com/newsread.aspx?id=48731

That would leave the governments, not depositors, waiting for the liquidation repayment.

Spokesman Richard Carter says the group has had an encouraging response from the new coaltion government in the UK:

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Manx Radio interview 18 Jan 2011

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Mon, 31/01/2011 - 23:16

DAG not impressed by recommendations

"This week's sitting of Tynwald is being asked to receive a second interim report from the Select Committee on Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander (Isle of Man) Limited, and approve a number of suggestions.

The three man committee, chaired by Rushen MHK Juan Watterson, lists eight conclusions and makes nine recommendations.

Among other things, it says it should no longer be possible for directors of banks to be members of the Financial Supervision Commission, although Mr Watterson says there's no implication that was a specific issue in the KSF case (first part of audio file):

The committee's recommendations have not impressed the Depositors' Action Group, which describes them as 'weak and cosmetic'.

The group says the report's findings may improve scrutiny of banks in the future, but will disappoint thousands of members who lost their savings in the collapse.

The depositors say the findings being put to Tynwald fail to place sufficient blame on the FSC.

Laurence Godfrey speaks for DAG's strategy group (second part of audio file) "

http://www.manxradio.com/newsread.aspx?id=49691

The second part of the audio clip is taken from a 3-4 minute interview broadcast on the Mandate programme.


Letter in IOM Examiner 11 Jan 2011

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Mon, 31/01/2011 - 23:09

Just to keep all these media items together, I am copying here the link to the online version of this second letter published in the IOM Examiner (previously posted as a separate forum topic to enable a scanned copy of the paper version to be attached):

http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/letters/court_did_not_support_scheme_of_a...


Manx Herald 29 Dec 2010

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Wed, 29/12/2010 - 19:44

http://www.manxherald.com/index.php/comment/655.html

Could 2011 see an end to KSF(IOM) depositors’ misery?

It has been a pretty bleak winter, so far, for many people this year but for some Kaupthing Singer Friedlander (IOM) (KSFIOM) depositors it is the second successive winter season of discontent.

Two years on from the collapse of the Isle of Man licensed bank and many former customers of the bank are still wondering when their resulting financial and emotional misery will end; albeit it will be too late for a handful of families who have already seen loved ones pass away during that time.

But perhaps, just over the horizon, there is a ray of hope waiting to brighten the lives of the approximately 4000 casualties of the Isle of Man’s notorious financial sector who still wait for the return of a sizeable proportion of their deposits.

At the most recent Tynwald Select Committee hearing (10/12/10) – investigating the failure of the bank and the effectiveness of the regulatory processes etc - a Depositors Action Group (DAG) spokesperson, Dr Angela Downes revealed DAG advisors have been in talks with UK Treasury officials regarding the establishment of a ‘Trust Fund’. DAG suggests such a fund, if established, could repay 100% of the outstanding amount owed to depositors in a very short space of time.

DAG believes this proposal is achievable but it needs the IOM authorities to agree to open discussions with their UK counterparts; along with willingness, of course, of the IOM Treasury to help bankroll the fund – which is an obvious stumbling block.

However, DAG suggest the shortfall on any recovery of the ‘loan’, over the next 7 years, by the respective treasuries would be minimal considering the current projected recovery rate of assets of over 90%. They also believe the positive press benefits to the Island’s financial industry would far outweigh any initially monetary loss to the taxpayer; and in the long term the enhanced reputation will undoubtedly reap a significant financial reward.

Whilst the Manx Herald supports DAG in their campaign for a satisfactory outcome for depositors, it also recognizes the difficulties DAG will face in bringing about this particular outcome.

It was only days before Dr Downes gave her evidence to the committee that the Financial Supervision Commission (FSC) chief, John Aspden was telling the same committee (2/12/10) how the IOM government is ‘arguably’ in such a better position than the UK, Ireland and other jurisdictions because it hasn’t stood 100% behind its financial institutions.

It seems the FSC still maintain letting banks go bust from time-to-time helps shorts out the weak institutions from the strong and also sends a strong educational message to bank customers – you’re engaging in the risk business, make sure you make an informed choice where you put your money. You need to understand if you get it wrong you could lose some or all of it!

Thus the message from the FSC appears to be: bailing out KSF(IOM) depositors to enable them to recover 100% of their deposits shouldn’t be considered, as it is ‘off-message’.

Expressing this sentiment would probably be acceptable if customers had confidence in the quality of the regulatory processes that oversee the financial institutions to which they entrust their money.

But as the world knows, regulatory failure, as much as anything, is what led to the near collapse of the global banking system; and perhaps, considering the circumstances, this is an occasion when the FSC’s opinion shouldn’t prevail.

Question is, will Chief Minister Tony Brown be prepared to eat humble pie and allow his officials to go and talk to the UK about finding a joint resolution to the KSF(IOM) saga?


Comments please

  • Julienne
  • 16/10/08 31/08/09
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  • Thu, 30/12/2010 - 11:42

Comments can be posted re the above article - suggest we all get to it and keep up the pressure that has so far been well applied!
Thanks

Happy New Year to all - may it be better than the last 2.


Well done Anrigaut

  • expatvictim
  • 10/10/08 01/11/10
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  • Wed, 29/12/2010 - 22:50

Anrigaut, having finally read the transcript, well done on standing firm in trying (and hopefully succeeding) in getting the message across on 10-12. Is it just me or was the natutre and intensity of the questioning you received on a different level to that put to the IOM old boys in this and the previous phase of the TSC)? They certainley had a persistance sorley lacking in previous sessions.

It comes across very much as if they (the TSC) were trying to defend the DCS rather than impartially evaluate its effectiveness and how well it was implemented. I fear the whitewash report of Part 1 will be repeated in Part 2.


@expatvictim

  • anrigaut
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  • Thu, 30/12/2010 - 00:41

"Is it just me or was the natutre and intensity of the questioning you received on a different level to that put to the IOM old boys ... ?"

Two of those present - the editor of Manx Herald and a member of the Postive Action Group - clearly had the same impression, remarking that at times I was treated more like someone on trial than a victim in the affair. I certainly found it quite stressful and can only hope that at least some of the message got across.


TSC transcript

  • Julienne
  • 16/10/08 31/08/09
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  • Fri, 31/12/2010 - 10:35

I too read the full Hansard transcript of Angela's questioning at the TSC hearing --- At times it seemed to me that they had her "on trial" rather than an information giver and they seemed to be deliberately obtuse having been given (I thought ) a very clear explanation of facts, in some places!!
Let's hope someone there gets the particular message.
Well done for not giving way....


TSC transcript - correction

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Tue, 04/01/2011 - 18:31

At my request, and following verification of the recording by the editor, a correction has been made to the early publication of Hansard. The text in lines 1972-1974 (re the DCS) now reads:

"I do not know whether Tynwald wanted it to be different or not, but I am sure it is different from the UK
scheme. That is perfectly your right to make it different, I am not denying that, but then it should be made
clear to depositors and not pretend it is the same – "

in place of

"I do not know whether Tynwald wanted it to be different or not, but I am sure it is different from the UK
scheme. That is perfectly alright to make it different, I am not denying that, but then it should be made
clear to depositors and not pretend it is the same – "

The mistake was understandable, but significantly altered the sense of what I said.

The modified version is now uploaded on the Tynwald site here: www.tynwald.org.im/papers/early/committee/eptksf10122010.pdf


Two words

  • expatvictim
  • 10/10/08 01/11/10
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  • Thu, 30/12/2010 - 17:54

The words kangaroo (albeit out of context) and banana came to mind. I could add unprofessional and biased. Further evidence that first and foremost the IOM is seemingly going to protect its reputation and its relationship with the baking industry before the interests of depositors in the instituions it licences to do business there.


More on Manx radio

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Mon, 13/12/2010 - 18:21

A third piece based on my interview was broadcast in the Mandate evening programme today. It concentrated on the possible cost to Manx taxpayers of the loan trust plan if adopted (most would come back from liquidation) and on the continuing effects on depositors' lives.

That's 3 different pieces in one day!


Manx Radio

  • Blades
  • 19/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Tue, 14/12/2010 - 02:37

Congratulations Angela and many thanks.


@anrigaut

  • fight theft
  • 10/10/08 28/05/13
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  • Mon, 13/12/2010 - 21:24

Three Cheers for Angela - Thanks for all your positive strong effort on our behalf.


@anrigaut

  • IceCrusher
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  • Mon, 13/12/2010 - 19:39

Very well done Angela, good job!
Ice


May be another piece on Manx radio

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Mon, 13/12/2010 - 11:12

Just heard from the Manx radio reporter that there may be another piece about us on this evening's Mandate programme.


Letter to IOM Examiner - published

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Fri, 03/12/2010 - 13:23

My letter to the Examiner was published in the Newspaper this week. I am told the Examiner finds its way into many homes in the IOM.

Much to my surprise, it was also published online in iomtoday here:
http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/letters/ksf_suffering_continues_1_2808140

The title ("KSF suffering continues") was supplied by the editor, not by me.

Little by little .... maybe ...


Manx Radio

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Wed, 01/12/2010 - 06:40

Marian, of Manx Radio has informed us that she had a "healthy feedback" in her comments inbox following the interview with Tricky Dicky broadcast on 22 Nov.

Comments to the website are not published, but it's all keeping us in the picture. I hope to meet Marian on Thursday.


Re Manx radio

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Fri, 03/12/2010 - 13:26

Obviously, the proposed meeting did not take place as I was unable to get to the IOM. However, a possible interview following my reprogrammed appearance at the Select Committee next week is now under discussion.


Manx radio report 13 Dec 2010

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Mon, 13/12/2010 - 07:17

Action Group on proposed KSF loan trust

A member of the Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander Depositors' Action Group hopes the Isle of Man will look favourably at a new scheme she and her colleagues have put forward to try and return outstanding monies as quickly as possible.

Dr Angela Downs explained the idea at last week's sitting of a Select Committee of Tynwald, which is examining the failure of KSF, and the Depositors' Compensation Scheme.

Dr Downs says the establishment of a loan trust, underwritten by the Manx and British governments, would be a way of resolving the problem for some 4,000 depositors, who have still only received half of the money they invested in the bank.

The group has already spoken via advisors to some key members of the UK Treasury Select Committee which has been looking into the collapse, and Dr Downs says they were supportive of the idea:

* Listen To Related Audio Clip here: http://www.manxradio.com/newsread.aspx?id=49132

Comments

We would like to hear your views. If you have any comments or further information on this story, please email the Manx Radio newsroom at comments(?)manxradio [dot] com


Manx Radio Coments

  • Blades
  • 19/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Mon, 13/12/2010 - 13:50

Thanks yet again to everyone who is keeping things moving forwards.

I can't seem to get a comment posted on Manx radio but perhaps someone could point out we're not "investors" we are depositors who were given a parental guarantee that the IOM government must have been aware of. We believed those in authority would have the decency to stand by those whose money they were prepared to take.


@bellyup, blades

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Mon, 13/12/2010 - 14:35

Manx radio don't post comments. It's not specific to us - they simply don't post comments from anyone on any topic. But they will read and take note of what you send, so please don't be discouraged. They do understand who we are and are giving us fair coverage. You will note that the article in question does indeed call us depositors, not investors.

The ground was well prepared some weeks ago after one of their reporters spontaneously contacted us wanting to know how things were 'two years on'. We supplied a lot of written material, notably our submissions to the Select Committee and our response to the Interim Report and directed them to the stories on the KSFIOMDAG website. Surprisingly, it would seem they gave all this some attention and are now well on top of our story. Following that TD gave a first interview of which a part was broadcast about 3 weeks ago and they asked to meet the person going to the Select Committee. I was well received at the radio station by a second reporter and feel we have established a good contact. So please, stay positive: express your support of the loan trust plan, tell something of your story - whatever you want - but please don't be abusive to them.


Have also sent a reply to

  • barrona
  • 17/11/08 31/05/09
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  • Mon, 13/12/2010 - 10:46

Have also sent a reply to Manx radio re the loan trust.


Comment posted

  • Julienne
  • 16/10/08 31/08/09
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  • Mon, 13/12/2010 - 09:42

Just posted my support of the loan trust idea to manx radio - unfortunately they don't publish them but I think the more of us that write the more the IOM media will see we are STILL HERE and have a workable suggestion.

Go for it folks!!


Cant get my comment posted

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
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  • Mon, 13/12/2010 - 13:00

I cant get my comment posted either never mind i have popped the link on the Manxforums who surprisingly have reopened the KSF thread.
www.manxforums.com


Comment posted today

  • glen07
  • 21/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Mon, 13/12/2010 - 10:15

I've added my comment about a proposed loan trust too.


@Julienne

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Mon, 13/12/2010 - 09:55

Thanks Julienne. I fully agree - the more who write the better. We do have the feeling that the two people we have had contacts with at Manx Radio are quite sympathetic to our plight. They also said they intended to ask Anne Craine for any comments - though my guess would be that she'd refuse at this stage.

I have just tried to listen to this morning's Mandate programme live via the Internet. I say 'tried' because about two-thirds of the way through something happened and it suddenly looped back to an earlier part of the programme. By the time I'd restarted everything and got the live version back, I had missed most of the piece about the loan trust and just caught the end - about 52 minutes into the programme. The bit I heard was different from the sound bite attached to the article, so there was clearly more of the interview broadcast. It seems the 'listen again' version is not yet available (still getting last Monday's programme), so will have to be patient.

It seems however that I got two separate slots, the other (23 minutes in) being about my views on the Elle Macpherson ruing! That one I did hear - about 2 minutes long.


great effort anriguat

  • jmf
  • 16/10/08 31/10/09
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  • Mon, 13/12/2010 - 17:15

Have posted comment to Manx Radio


GETTING THE MESSAGE OUT - IOM AND THE REST!

  • mikepapa
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Mon, 29/11/2010 - 18:04

I have just been catching up on my unread posts on the official site and saw a comment from an editor that IMO, is well worth broadcasting to both IOM, UK and the rest of the world.

At the moment HMG is proposing to lend funds to Ireland to help them out of their present difficulties.

I do not pay taxes in Ireland, however even as an expat, I continue to pay Taxes in UK.
Before using my taxes to bail out Ireland, perhaps HMG and IOMGov should give serious consideration to making a small join loan to stand in my shoes to repay my saving tied up in KSF IoM Liquidation.
After all I am British - ex serviceman, I invested in a British Building Society - Derbyshire in IoM - British Dependency and seems I will still have to wait a few years to get back not quite all of my hard won savings!!

Surely Charity begins at home...... but perhaps not these day????

Kind regards,

Mike


Charity Begins At Home?

  • conned
  • 13/10/08 n/a (free)
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  • Mon, 29/11/2010 - 20:23

What Charity Mikepapa? It is our own money.


Letter to IOM Examiner

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Fri, 26/11/2010 - 12:13

News on the Letter we submitted just received from the editor:

"Your letter arrived too late to get in this week’s Examiner. It is earmarked for next week’s, although I can never make guarantees."

Fingers crossed!


re Manx radio article

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Mon, 22/11/2010 - 10:54

Sorry folks - the link above seems to have got into the middle of the quote in my post at the top of this forum and the usual possibility to edit seems to have gone AWOL (next time I will use preview!).

Just to be clear: the last two lines form part of the text of the article. If you follow the link you can also listen to the (very short!) audio clip.


The Telgraph

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
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  • Mon, 29/11/2010 - 14:47

I wonder if there is any point in commenting on the Telegraph article

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/offshorefinance/81105...


Clegg in IOM

  • peter and louise
  • 18/10/08 01/09/09
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  • Mon, 20/12/2010 - 12:27

Just read in 'IOMToday' that Nick Clegg visited Douglas last Monday for an Anglo/Irish summit, a body set up years ago to consider matters of mutual interest and concern for all member states, of which the IOM is one. I wonder if the KSFIOM issue was brought up as a matter of mutual concern or interest? This surely would have been the perfect place and opportunity for a representative of UK Government asking the Chief Minister on the IOM what he intends to do about thousands of people who deposited their life-savings on the IOM and then lost access to it for an indefinite period. Would anyone have any idea whether this was on the agenda? Would Clegg have been briefed, I wonder, about our plight by those sympathetic to our cause in the UK Treasury?


Re Clegg in IOM

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Mon, 20/12/2010 - 13:01

This summit was the main news on Manx radio last Monday (the same Mandate programme as my interview). I would very much doubt if KSF was on the agenda!

Nick Clegg is certainly aware of our plight. I have been in intermittent contact with him since quite early on as he just happens to be the MP for my last UK constituency. Though I no longer have any UK voting rights, he has responded several times and I have supplied him with detailed information. This was his last to me, on 9 Nov:

"Thank you for your further email. I must apologise for the delay in responding to you on this matter.

I have only just received an update from Mark Hoban MP. Unfortunately the response adds nothing new to the situation as he is still awaiting information on the matter and he is unable to comment at present.

Be assured that I will continue to raise this matter with my colleagues in the Treasury and I will continue to keep you informed of any information I receive on the matter

Yours sincerely

Nick Clegg MP"

It seems he will do no more until Mark Hoban, who has requested Treasury officials to look into the matter and report back to him, takes some sort of a stand. Politics move very slowly (except when closing down Icelandic banks!) ...


...or bailing out the

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
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  • Tue, 21/12/2010 - 07:07

...or bailing out the non-tax-paying Irish connection.


@iceCrusher

  • D RAM
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  • Tue, 21/12/2010 - 12:40

Actually the UK will make a profit from bailing out the Irish ( provided,of course, the Irish pay the loan back ! ). The UK itself is borrowing the money and lending it to the Irish at a substantial spread. Hopefully the UK would be a bit less mercenary if it lends money to the IOM to pay us back.


All the UK govt is bailing out the UK banking (theft) industry..

  • follow_the_tao
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Sat, 01/01/2011 - 21:46

Look at the Lloyds and RBS writedowns on their Irish exposure, and guess what they are trying to avoid with a few billions of loan. It is so transparent it is sickening.
And ask yourself when have you ever seen any magnanimous gesture from the UK banking industry as they gradually increase their personal wealth.

If the soveriegn crisis continues... and it will because all these people are doing is kicking the can down the road. the GBP will be hit further... look at how it has fallen even against the USD recently. My loving compatriots......I don't think.

Get cynical.

As for the IoM .... a whore is a whore... I'm no longer a social worker.


Maybe, but I was talking

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
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  • Tue, 21/12/2010 - 14:31

Maybe, but I was talking about speed, not profit.


Mark Hoban

  • Valentine
  • 18/10/08 31/05/14
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  • Mon, 20/12/2010 - 14:39

Angela

I'm afraid I don't have much faith in Mark Hoban.
I seem to remember that exactly two years ago Diver had a meeting with him when I think he was Shdow Minister to the Treasury, and he more or less told Diver that we didn't have a leg to stand on.
That was in fact the event which made me realize that no one gave a bugger about us.
Or has the leopard changed his spots?