General Discussions

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
  • a depositor
  • Offline
Posted: Fri, 10/10/2008 - 05:39

Any general chat about what is going on that doesn't fall into any other categories.

IMPORTANT: How to post links to related News on other sites

As of 21/Oct/08 we have a searchable news archive. Site editors (and anybody else who wants to help) now have the mammoth task of find and re-posting all relevant links that were posted in forums and re-posting as a news item into the archive.

It would be appreciated if you didn't make the task even bigger than it currently is.

Please post news items using the Create new News item link near top of right side-bar.

4.833335
Your rating: None Average: 4.8 (6 votes)

Comment viewing options
Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Option 4 - still a remote hope!

  • 1log
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 22:51

I am sure that somewhere there is a post here that says that 3 interests were there albiet very preliminary, on Fri/Sat, I am hoping that something is materialising!!!! helps me to sleep as well


Europe stands behind banks

  • IanAbroad
  • 11/10/08 13/08/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 21:43

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7666274.stm

"European leaders meeting in Paris have agreed a plan to tackle the banking crisis, saying no big institution will be allowed to fail."
The collapse of Iceland, and our Gordon, has woken them up.
I have no idea if this is positive news for us or not?
I'd have said that Kaupthing IoM may not be a big institution, but Kaupthing hf certainly is, and it's still trading.


Wikipedia Censorship? 2008 Icelandic Financial Crisis Overview

  • VikingRaider
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 21:22

Well-researched overview in Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Icelandic_financial_crisis
I tried to include a paragraph on Isle of Man/Channel Islands and it was deleted in minutes. I will try an find out why and see if the paragraph can be restored.
VikingRaider


Wiki censor? IOM still there on it

  • 1log
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 21:55

There is the last paragraph on IOM but I think it might be good expanded a bit further to explain that the freezing of account in Kaupthing UK, led to the KSFIOM downfall, which was otherwise solvent.


Telegraph Article

  • HOPPER
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 20:01

from the telegraph web site just now....just seen this...sorry if it is old news...

UK freezes £4bn of Icelandic assets
The Government has seized £4bn of Icelandic assets under anti-terror legislation, more than enough to pay back British savers caught in the collapse of the country’s banking industry.

Last Updated: 8:40PM BST 12 Oct 2008

The £4bn of assets is thought to more than outweigh the estimated £3bn of savings, both public and private, caught up in the collapse of Iceland’s three main banks, Kaupthing, Landsbanki and Glitnir.

Speaking on the BBC, Treasury Chief Secretary Yvette Cooper said the assets would not be released until a deal had been struck with Iceland’s authorities to return British money.

Ms Cooper said: “I think we need to have a proper process for doing this [releasing Icelandic assets and returning UK savers’ money] and that is why we sent a team over to Iceland on Friday in order to talk to the Iceland authorities.

“These discussions are under way at the moment and that is why we have frozen assets in the meantime.”

Despite the fact UK local authorities are estimated to have £1bn frozen in Iceland, the Local Government Association was confident councils did not have any immediate cash flow problems and would be able to meet all obligations.

The LGA said it was “highly unlikely” there would be any immediate impact due to inability to get money out of Iceland.

Under the terms of the deal being worked on, small depositors are expected to get their money back first, followed by larger corporate or institutional investors.


Re: latest Telegraph Article

  • Emabroad
  • 10/10/08 30/08/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 22:51

I have yet to see anything, anywhere, which refers to anything other than UK onshore assets recovery.

Please note that the article also says, '$4bn of Icelandic assets . . . more than enough to pay back British savers caught in the collapse of the country’s banking industry.' Could this be because all the IOM funds are caught up in this seizure, which caused the KSFIOM to fail in the first place and if so, why is the IOM not persistently and forcefully pursuing this point with the British Government, before it's too late?


frozen assets

  • justr
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 20:34

I am not sure that these assets are being considered for use with regard to Kaupthing IOM. Our Government has not said anything about IOM that I know of. I thought that Gordan had said that he was going to make sure that no investor who lost money with Icelandic banks would loose out, probably because Iceland seems unable to honour it's pledge to cover banks in Iceland, and of course, Kaupthing London based accounts are covered to 50K anyway. No mention of us yet.


BBC Posting

  • bushmen
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 19:56

BBC Producers looking for interviewer/s for their show tomorrow evening.

Please see the link below if you are interested with contact details, preferably if you are in the isle of man or north west england.

I've posted it here also since the show is tomorrow evening.

http://www.ksfiomdepositors.com/cms/?q=node/51#new


Legal Representation

  • jane maloney
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 19:52

If it costs money then I would cerainly pay my share !!!


legal rep

  • matti
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 20:05

I think we should certainly seek advice and, if it then seems worthwhile, appoint someone.
I have lost everything though and have no cash whatsoever. Maybe we could pay a % of anything they retrieve for us?


Legal reps

  • occams razor
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 20:12

My opinion is an official legal rep is not needed right now. Things are all still in the air and our chances lie in political and/or commercial solution at the highest international level, of which there appears to be lots of talks going on, thus far above what a legal rep could influence. Media attention at this stage may help, but any legal actions are for later. Just my thinking, of course anyone who feels we do need a legal rep is welcome to pursue this avenue.


Except that I am yet to hear

  • silvesc
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 20:18

Except that I am yet to hear that the IoM is involved at this highest international level. Do we even know whether there is a Manx govt representative in Iceland? There should be, and if there isn't I certainly don't trust UK reps to make the IoM case.


Kaupthing IOM's IT server was sited in UK

  • sami
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 19:25

This may be a relevant thing to know in the future, with regard to our fight to get our money, particularly since we felt that IOM and UK were interconnected.

I believe the public IP address of Kaupthing IOM's e-mail server is not an Isle of Man IP address. Instead it is located in London and is registered to Kaupthing UK. I am fairly sure this is the case.

This tells me that at least some of Kaupthing IOM's servers (and certainly their e-mail server) were actually sited in UK. This would mean that users at PC desktops in IOM were using the mail server based in UK and therefore were dependent upon UK in order to carry out their business.

In this information below it shows that the ISP is in fact KAUPTHING BANK, rather than an Internet service provider.

IP Address Country Region City Latitude/
Longitude ZIP Code Time Zone
88.151.55.11 UNITED KINGDOM - - 54.15
-4.473 - +00:00
Net Speed ISP Domain
- KAUPTHING BANK UK KAUPTHING.COM


Interesting idea!

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 20:01

Well done for thinking of that. I don't know how valuable it might be, but to add - if anyone has old emails from them, there will be further detail there. When email is sent it gets "routed" from the senders machine via several others. So most likely the route would show from IoM to UK (then various other stages to reach you.) The email will have a long of those machines, usually including enough information to identify who/where they are.

I'm sure I've got at least one old email. Anybody else?

Again, this may or may not be valuable, so lets not all rush off finding emails, but do keep any that you have.


email

  • Andy Ish
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 20:43

I have one email as recent as 7th Oct. not sure how that is useful


I do have an email from KSFIOM

  • 1log
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 20:39

That last wretched email on 26th Sept 2008 reassuring me that all is well. Stupid me for trusting that. Now I am with my face in my hands.


server location

  • Pat
  • 10/10/08 30/11/12
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 19:55

i just checked google earth with that lat/longitude and it is in Douglas IOM (although just in the sea!)


I think this is a good piece

  • sleeplessnight
  • 10/10/08 30/06/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 19:30

I think this is a good piece of information an adds to the weight of legal.

Have we decided on appointing legal yet? Does anyone have contacts that would be willing to help advisory f.o.c at this stage or are any of the members proficient in this area to get us by till we need to appoint. I personally think we need appointment asap and if we could, as we discussed a couple of days ago, find someone who would consider respective/successful payment?


Isle of Man Government

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 19:11

Some might find some background in the Manx political situation helpful.

There aren't any political parties to speak of on the Island. The 24 MHKs (MPs) are effectively all independents.

The Council of Ministers is the Manx cabinet - the government. The head of this body is the Chief Minister, the equivalent of a PM.

However, not having party politics makes the system slightly less robust than the UK equivalents (i.e. there isn't necessarily a single party line they'll all cling to).

Conversely, there isn't an official Opposition to work to expose flaws in government policies. Therefore it all largely comes down to individual politicians.

Ministers:

Tony Brown, the Chief Minister, has a background as an electrician, and owns and runs an small electrical store - basically a small businessman.

Allan Bell, the Treasurer, worked in retail before getting elected.

Other key politicians in this situation (in my view):

Peter Karran MHK - seems to see himself as being the opposition and having the job of holding the ministers to account. Good at raising issues. Professionally he is a joiner.

Juan Watterson MHK - Juan (Manx name, pronounced jew-ann) is a chartered accountant by profession, and worked as an auditor at KPMG before getting elected. Quite a young chap - only 28. Understands the finance issues, and was at the forefront of pushing the Manx government to upgrade the level of the Depositors Protection Scheme recently. Will understand the risks to the Manx economy from this situation.


OMG!

  • Elpasout
  • 10/10/08 31/08/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 22:22

Sounds more like the local Rotary Club (of which I was a member for 15 years I hasten to add :-))

I am sure these are all very decent people - but do they really have the background to deal with this sort of crisis? I really do hope they can prove me wrong! Please???


Isle of Man Government

  • Andy Ish
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 19:53

Cold Dose this is indeed!
Any Janitors in the MHK to help clean this mess?


motley crew

  • humphrey
  • 10/10/08 01/03/11
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 19:46

Not much pedigree there, I had no idea I was investing in an island with such a mickey mouse crew! In fact I thought I was investing in a british subsiduary of kaup in the IOM.


Motley Crew

  • chazzab
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 19:58

I'm sure they're all great guys, but must agree that the background information on these individuals is a bit worrying when compared to the seasoned political heavyweights representing UK mainland depositors!


Motley crew?

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 20:45

They do have a team of professional civil servants to advise them, of course.

That said, the other members of the Manx Council of Ministers are: a secretary, a pharmacist, two bankers, a farmer, a former civil servant/middle manager, another retailer, a teacher, and (most interesting of all) a chap who is an ex-trainee accountant, ex-stone-waller, ex-arsonist (nationalist - did time!), Manx Language Development Officer...


Motley crew

  • pimki36
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 20:54

Made me laugh....oh,my gott.

Thanks for that


Contact details - Juan Watterson

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 19:43

Juan Watterson MHK
Costebelle
Cronk Road
Port St Mary
IM9 5AS
Isle of Man

Phone (office): 01624 651517
Phone (home): 01624 837678

Email: juan.watterson AT gov.im


Contact details - Peter Karran

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 19:32

Peter Karran MHK
Legislative Buildings
Douglas
IM1 3PW
Isle of Man

Phone/fax: 01624 626379

Email: karranmhk AT hotmail.com


Contact details - Allan Bell (office)

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 19:27

Treasury Minister
Government Office
Buck's Road
Douglas
IM1 3PG
Isle of Man

Phone: +44 (0) 1624 685586


Contact details - Tony Brown (office)

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 19:18

Chief Minister's Office
Government Office
Bucks Road
Douglas
IM1 3PG
Isle of Man

chief.minister AT cso.gov.im

Phone: +44 (0)1624 685702
Fax: +44 (0)1624 685710


Letter to the UK Treasury

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 18:41

I have tweaked another contributor's letter and sent the following:

Dear Ms Cooper

I am one of many British citizens living abroad who had savings deposited with the Derbyshire (Isle of Man) which were transferred to Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander (Isle of Man).

KSF (IOM) collapsed last week as a direct consequence of the UK Govt's decision to put KSF (UK) into administration - I understand that KSF (UK) held 60% of KSF (IOM) depositors' monies and that KSF (IOM) was solvent until the UK government took its actions. Although the UK Treasury may not strictly speaking be responsible for financial matters in the Isle of Man, I ask that you negotiate with the Icelandic authorities in Reykjavik on behalf of KSF(IOM) depositors for the following reasons:

  1. Although a UK citizen, as a non-UK resident I have not been able to open a savings account in the UK and so have been forced to open offshore accounts.

  2. I have never used my offshore accounts to evade taxes. I declare my interest income.

  3. Because of its geography, the fact that the UK has responsibility for the foreign affairs of the Isle of Man, Manxmen have UK passports, and sterling is the local currency, I have always thought of the Isle of Man as being part of the British sphere, British in all but name.

  4. Many UK bank and building socieities have opened Isle of Man branches, advertise such branches on their UK websites and tout their relationship with their UK parents.

  5. The UK authorities must have given the go-ahead for the sale of the Derbyshire to Kaupthing.

  6. KSF(IOM) and KSF(UK) effectively operated as one company.

  7. It was the UK's actions under anti-terrorist legislation which precipitated the collapse of KSF(IOM), which had previously been solvent.

  8. Most KSF(IOM) depositors are British citizens who visit the UK regularly, and many pay UK taxes and vote in the UK.

  9. The UK has responsibility for the foreign affairs of the Isle of Man, and so owes a duty of fair dealing on behalf of the Isle of Man, which has no clout with the Icelandic government.

KSF (IOM) investors are seeking the following actions:

  1. That KSF (UK) repay all monies it has borrowed from KSF (IOM): it is not fair for the UK government guarantee of KSF (UK)'s UK depositors to be funded by KSF (IOM) depositors.

  2. That Kaupthing Bank hf, now under the control of the Icelandic govt, honour the guarantee it gave to Derbyshire investors when it bought the business last year, and that the UK government lend the Icelandic government funds, if necessary, to enable it to honour that guarantee. I understand that the Dutch government has done this so as to protect its nationals.

  3. That non-UK residents be permitted to open savings accounts in the UK.

I wish you every success in your negotiations with the Icelandic government.

Regards,


Michael Simpson, Pricewaterhouse Coopers

  • heliton
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 19:17

Would you mind letting me have the telephone, Fax and email contact details for Michael Simpson,
Pricewaterhouse Coopers,
60, Circular Road,
Douglas,
Isle of Man, IMl lSA
Inglaterra
Please?
Many thanks,
Fellow sufferer, in for 500k USD´s, 35 years of savings:-
Tony S Evans, Bsc, AICM, ARICS, F.Inst.D,
Av. Santa Catalina 2, Apartado Correos 211 AP,
03725 TEULADA, Alicante, SPAIN.

Tel: (00-34) 609-462059 Tel/Fax: (00-34) 96-5733372

Email: heliton1(?)terra [dot] es or heliton(?)wanadoo [dot] es


Channel 4 Interview

  • Monkeyface3604
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 18:28

Anyone

I have been speaking to a reporter from Channel 4
They are interested in our story, the human side of it especially
As per below they have expressed an interest in POORPOPPYS story.
If i am unable to get in contact with Poppy i will need to supply someone else suitable.
I need someone vulnerable (pensioner for instance) who has lost their entire life savings, will be homeless etc
Contact me if you think you are suitable and will be able to handle a pre recorded TV interview
This story has a shelf life of only a couple of days!!!!!!!


Channel 4 Interview

  • heliton
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 19:22

Sure lets give it a go.... the more bad publicity the more chance these guys will do something to protect the Islands future as a "Financial" centre???
They use the logo:- Isle of Man. Giving you freedom to flourish ???

We live in Spain, and have a large part of our savings, from 35 years of HARD WORK, invested in Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander (Isle of Man) Limited, it cannot be replaced at our age and we placed it in this bank in the I-O-M as we were told the financial system was very sound and were given a copy of the parent companies guarantee?

It seems that the UK, Dutch, Icelandic and German governments have agreed to cover 100% of savings with this bank in their respective countries, but the Isle of Man Government will not be doing the same with ours and others peoples savings invested in this Island.

By the way, we also have friends who have GBP 100k invested in the same bank, which was the proceeds of their house sale much of which was needed next week for the completion on the purchase of their new property - God only knows what they will do now?

It is therefore QUITE CLEAR that money is less safe when invested in banks on this Island although we were led to believe from all THEIR publicity and that of the banks that it was a reputable financial centre.

After this, and the adverse publicity of people loosing their life's savings by depositing their money with banks in this financial centre it must be quite clear that depositors should TOTALLY AVOID using banks that come under the I-O-M governance, as there is MUCH MORE risk and everything to loose, when the same investment could of been totally safe had it been invested through one of the UK´s branches of the SAME bank.

This must SURELY be the start of the END of the I-O-M as a banking centre as NO-ONE NOW, in their right sense of mind, will be depositing monies with banks on this Island, taking such un-necessary risks with their savings.

We also have some money with the B & B, again in an account in the I-O-M, (although a lesser sum) and this we will be transferring out to an on-shore account immediately we have the new account open, so we are sure that it will be safe.

Its a very sorry state of affairs when people led to believe their life savings were safe have been so VERY BADLY LET DOWN through their investments in the Isle of Man...

Yours Sincerley,

Tony

Tony S Evans, Bsc, AICM, ARICS, F.Inst.D,
Av. Santa Catalina 2, Apartado Correos 211 AP,
03725 TEULADA, Alicante, SPAIN.

Tel: (00-34) 609-462059 Tel/Fax: (00-34) 96-5733372

Email: heliton1(?)terra [dot] es or heliton(?)wanadoo [dot] es


Heliton

  • Monkeyface3604
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 19:31

Poorpoppy has come forward and agreed to do it for now, however the guy from Channel 4 did said he would be interested in other stories so when i speak to him next I will convey your story
E mail me your details so if need be i can put you in contact


C4

  • skintagainnow
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 18:42

sent you an email - but if possible (read the content and you'll understand) would prefer to stay out of limelight, also I've not told family / friends etc,.

But if you can't reach poorpoppy and no one else fits the bill -- Ok


POORPOPPY

  • Monkeyface3604
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 18:18

POORPOPPY I HAVE SENT YOU AN E MAIL, PLEASE CONTACT ASAP, CHANNEL ARE REALLY INTERESTED IN YOUR STORY AND WILL COME TO FRANCE TO INRTERVIEW YOU.
WE NEED TO DO THIS ASAP, THIS STORY HAS A SHELF LIFE AND WE NEED TO HIT WHILE THE IRON IS HOT!!!!!


Accounts

  • thesunnysouth
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 18:02

I have seen a lot of comment about how much money was deposited in the London branch and perhaps in shares. Has anyone seen a recent balance sheet which may indicate where the money has gone? If for eg Bauger is heavily involved then a possible buy out by Green would release funds.
This would help us fathom out how much is deposited and where it might be.


Anyone justwatching C4 news

  • skintagainnow
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 17:29

Was anyone just watching C4 news -- re the letter stating only assets HMG seized was Landski???


Who do you believe? The

  • go mann
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 17:35

Who do you believe?
The staggering complexity [and possible dishonesty] in this entire Icelandic saga [excuse the pun] is the subject for somebody's novel.


C4 news

  • skintagainnow
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 17:51

to make it easier to follow this thread I've kept the part of the heading.

Now just searched channel 4 news online and can't get anything for the news that's just been on to add a link - and of course verify what I thought I saw and heard

I'm begining to wonder where reality / ficton / dreaming -- I don't know head is spinning even more now...


C4 News usually seems to be

  • occams razor
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 17:59

C4 News usually seems to be put online about an hour or so after the show, but not live online.
It will be posted under the "Missed the show" link here, though today's is not up yet.
http://www.channel4.com/news/


Crown Dependencies

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 17:26

For anyone interested in raising issues with the UK government, the department responsible for ensuring that the Island's interests are represented to other UK government departments is the Ministry of Justice:

Email: crown.dependencies AT justice.gsi.gov.uk
Telephone: +44 (0)20 7210 2603

The responsible minister is Lord William (Willie) Bach.

The Lord Chancellor, Jack Straw, represents the Isle of Man on the Privy Council.


I have bayed at the Moon ...

  • go mann
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 17:54

I have bayed at the Moon ... all avenues must be explored, however hopeless they might seem.

Sir,

Amidst the unravelling complexities of the banking crisis in the Isle of Man (IOM) and Iceland, I would urge you to remember that IOM (and other offshore) deposits are, for many expatriates, the only credible banking option.

Those involved, as investors/savers in Icesave, Landsbanki and Kaupthing, are not in the main "offshore tax evaders" but ordinary people, either working or living abroad.

I am a British passport holder, who retired to Jersey just 3 years ago. I found it almost impossible to find a home for my savings in the offshore environment. Eventually, through a policy of diversification, I chose to deposit funds in Kaupthing Edge (IOM): mercifully I was able to withdraw some before the collapse, although I still have a 5-figure sum lost in the chaos. Other offshore depositors have lost massive sums.

I beg you not to forget those British citizens who, of necessity, have to deposit funds in offshore institutions in the IOM and elsewhere. We may be offshore at the moment, but we remain British, and surely deserve some protection from our Mother Country.


Yvette Cooper, Chief Secretary to the Treasury

  • softlad66
  • 10/10/08 27/04/11
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 17:03

I have just emailed Yvette Cooper, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, using a copy of a letter written by an earlier poster. I would urge others to do likewise. It seems to me that the unlocking of the assets of KSF (IoM) held in the UK and pressing the Icelandic government to honour the parent company guarantee provided by Kaupthing Bank hf are key to this issue.

To: coopery(?)parliament [dot] uk

Dear Yvette,

I am one of many British expatriates who had significant sums, built-up over many years work overseas, invested with Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander (Isle of Man). KSF (IOM) collapsed last week as a direct consequence of the UK Govt's decision to put KSF (UK) into administration - it has been revealed that KSF (UK) had taken 60% of KSF (IOM) depositors' monies and so of course KSF (IOM) had no chance of being able to meet the demands of those losing confidence in Kaupthing. While the UK Treasury may not be responsible for financial matters in the Isle of Man, I would ask you to accept your moral responsibility and include the plight of KSF(IOM) investors in your negotiations with the Icelandic authorities in Reykjavik for the following reasons:

  1. The very close relationship between KSF(IOM) and KSF(UK) which effectively operated as one company.
  2. Because the failure of KSF(IOM) was precipitated by the UK government.
  3. Because the majority of KSF(IOM) investors are British citizens, who although non-resident, still visit the UK regularly, pay taxes to the UK government (tax on Uk income, VAT, council tax, fuel tax, etc.) and are registered UK electors.
  4. Because, like many others, I invested my money with the Derbyshire Building Society which had a long-standing reputation and a guarantee from its UK parent - a guarantee that was embraced by Kaupthing Bank hf when it took over the Derbyshire (IOM) last year.
  5. Because the UK has responsibility for the foreign affairs of the Isle of Man, which clearly by itself has no clout with Reykjavik.

KSF (IOM) investors are seeking the following actions:
1. That KSF (UK) repays all monies it has borrowed/taken from KSF (IOM).
2. That Kaupthing Bank hf, now under the control of the Icelandic govt, honours the guarantee it gave to Derbyshire investors when purchasing the business last year: "Kaupthing Bank hf, the banks ultimate parent will provide a parental guarantee which replaces the parental guarantee from Derbyshire Building Society from the date of completion, meaning the customers can continue to have peace of mind regarding their deposits"

I wish all success to the Treasury officials in their negotiations with the Icelandic government.

Best regards,


USA investors

  • ahorsley
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 16:54

Are there any other folks in the USA who had KSF accounts? I am in Atlanta, GA and would welcome contact with others in the US who are in the same situation.

(Moderated to remove email address as per forum policy - by occams razor)

ahorsley: Go to "My Account" on the left menu, then the "Edit" tab, put your email address in there, and make sure the "Personal Contact Form" checkbox is sticked. This enables any registered user to send a message to that email address, by clicking on your username, without it being shown to the world, and from any post you make - not just this one. Thanks)


Of possible interest

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 16:49

I think the following may be of interest to some contrbutors and readers.

The Association of Licensed Banks

http://www.alb.org.im

is an IoM association whose consititution

http://www.alb.org.im/Constitution.asp

includes the following words:

"To further the development and preserve the good reputation of the Isle of Man as an international banking and financial centre."

Amongst its most senior members

http://www.alb.org.im/ContactMain.asp

it boasts one Aidan Doherty of Singer and Friedlander (IOM) Limited as its Deputy President.

Could this person be any relation to Aidan Doherty, Managing Director of Kaupthing, Singer and Friedlander (IOM) Limited, who before the collapse appears to have been a rock of reassurance to depositors, yet since last Tuesday appears to have been extraordinarily hard for depositors to contact at his place of work?


what can we do to exhert pressure?

  • rippedoff
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 16:45

Just registered, first comment. Still boiling!
Lots of names/noms de plume here. Has anyone got exceptional political contacts? My first reaction is that the UK government has saved Kaupthing UK depositors as they consider it would be vote losing to have done otherwise. The government may soon bail out the councils or produce sufficient pressure for a bail out from another source. If they felt that IOM depositors could also "create" a negative vote scenario then they would provide similar pressure for redress. Currently I have not read any comment from the UK government on their view of UK nationals who have lost money in IOM. This is 21 century for Chrissakes, there must be someway the financial "institutions" can compensate us; if only to save what is left of its reputation.....


As an overseas voter I'm

  • go mann
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 16:50

As an overseas voter I'm pinged my MP [a Shadow SofS] ... not that Brown cares about ex-pats, of course, but my MP is a good and honest man [honestly]. What impact he could have on the current apology for a British Government is another question ...


OMG

  • go mann
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 16:45

Have just tried to log on to another IOM account, with the intention of closing it and moving funds to UK.
And I can't log in ... oh, goody, another sleepless night!
Still, it may just be Sunday evening site maintenance .... and ... breathe ...
Thank God my doctor tells me I have the blood pressure of a 21-year old.


Breathe indeed

  • sosnovka
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 16:53

hopefully will be OK. I remember having many troubles loggin on to KSF on Sundays when they were still operational. Fingers crossed.