General Discussions

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
  • a depositor
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Posted: Fri, 10/10/2008 - 05:39

Any general chat about what is going on that doesn't fall into any other categories.

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Moustache

  • jjw
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 19:09

We should pin him down and cut the lot off. I am sure we would get enough from the Icelanders to cover th cost of the deposits. They would have enough thread to make fishing nets for the next few decades I should image. He does have some use then??


LOL

  • sosnovka
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 19:38

first time I laughed today, thanks


The word "muppet" did cross

  • go mann
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 18:51

The word "muppet" did cross my mind.


sorry - sent my blog before

  • worried jules
  • 13/10/08 14/06/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 18:00

sorry - sent my blog before finishing!! just shows how un-used to this i am...but wanted to say how comforted i have been with everyones input on this site - tks for making me smile in these bleak times and i'm willing to help where possible - living right now in south africa so a bit of a long way away but have access to internet and skype etc...


What happened to the bbc

  • MAXMAN
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 18:03

What happened to the bbc interview tonight? did i miss something or did bbc forget about us again


Im not sure, there was a

  • Monkeyface3604
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 18:11

Im not sure, there was a security breach at Parlkiment tonight so they may have dropped the story to run with that....F*$king enviromental protesters!!! Today of all days!!!


It did appear

  • Diver
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 18:38

...on BBC NW. Tony Brown came over hapless (IMHO) and simply trotted out the standard line of '£50k compensation' even when asked about those of us who had considerably more invested on his poxy Island. I think that we as depositors came off quite well...Brown on the other hand should be set adrift on a raft as far as I'm concerned...with a bit of luck he'll drift to Iceland!


Latest announcements

  • malc
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 17:53

It would seem a good idea to confirm with the Liquidator how loan payments can be made from the bank, yet the bank is unable to transfer funds to its own clients.

How can the bank be managing its loan book without receiving and making payments?

Malc


Managing the loan book

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 18:35

That doesn't mean making loans or payments out - it means they'll still be processing capital and interest repayments on the loans as normal - which is all money coming in.


Kaupthing Dubai and Qatar

  • occams razor
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 17:46

Does anyone know the status of Kaupthing Dubai and Qatar operations? I've heard no news regarding them at all:

http://www.kaupthing.ae/
http://www.kaupthing.com.qa/

I don't think these were mainly brokerage-type operations, but I'd still be curious to know. Also noting that Qatar Royal family's Sheikh Mohammed Bin Khalifa Al-Thani bought a 5% stake in Kaupthing shares on Sept. 22nd (I wonder if in hindsight that wasn't a great buy)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/sep/22/banking


Kaupthing Dubai

  • Andy Ish
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 17:58

I can check it out. I am in and out of DIFC (Dubai International Financial Center) I will also check with the DIFC Authority tomorrow since its too late for today.
I am regularly in there which is where they are based I believe!
I will try and see if I can deposit money there too :-))


Qatari Investment

  • DXB
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 17:58

Not sure about the status of Kaupthing's Gulf operations, but I'm guessing their assets are probably ring-fenced from the IoM subsidiary.
Funnily enough, I found the Al-Thani investment reassuring at the time... Just goes to show that this mess couldn't have been foreseen even with expensive and careful due diligence (I'm assuming they carried out their due diligence prior to acquiring their stake!).


Al-Thani

  • occams razor
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 18:01

Yeah the Al-Thani move also reassured me, and kept me from pulling money out sooner.


Iceland Pensions Explore Purchase of Kaupthing Assets

  • 491
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 17:47

This from Reuters today...

REYKJAVIK, Oct 13 (Reuters) - Iceland's biggest pension funds are looking into buying assets and operations of Kaupthing Bank which the state has taken over, daily Morgunbladid quoted a fund director as saying.

Icelandic Pension Fund of Commerce Managing Director Thorgeir Eyjolfsson said the funds had presented the idea to cabinet ministers on Sunday and they had 'responded positively', the paper said on its Web site.

Iceland's financial watchdog last week took control of Kaupthing, the country's biggest bank. It was the third such takeover in days to safeguard the domestic banking system.

'Considerable assets have already been lost but we believe a deal like this would materialise gains that would benefit our members,' the paper quoted Eyjolfsson as saying.

'The idea we are working with is for the funds to own no more than 51 percent of these assets, so it's clear that more investorswould need to be part of this.'

The funds believe there is considerable value and knowledge in Kaupthing, Eyjolfsson said.

The paper did not specify which other funds were taking part in the talks.

(Reporting by Omar Valdimarsson via Stockholm Newsroom) Keywords: FINANCIAL/ICELAND KAUPTHING


Latest announcement on KS&F website dated 13 Oct

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 17:40

What do others think about this announcement? Directors are still running the show and that 'you must still make mortgage payments.'


A few sad but true things

  • Andy Ish
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 17:30

All I heard from one of the KSF employees in the IOM that they want to join our action group! Aparently some of them lost their money as they had savings accounts in Edge IOM!

Additionally I heard on Sky news interview that with the government bailout and cancellantion of bankers bonuses they are threatning to leave the UK and move to Dubai banks! I am even more scared now! not that they have caused us enough problems in the UK, they are now thinking of coming here!


KSF IoM employees

  • Lash Canino
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 19:00

I agree with occams razor - it would be excellent if they joined our group, particularly as they could contribute useful inside info


I would think they would be

  • occams razor
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 17:48

I would think they would be welcome here and their anonymity protected.
Especially if they have useful information or insight to share.
There may be some here already.


BBC interview on air tonight

  • Dismayed
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 15:57

This morning outside the offices of KSF IOM on Georges Street Douglas, I met with Dave Guest a BBC reporter. He told me that he had interviewed “a depositor who I know is working very hard on our behalf “the interview will be on air tonight (Monday) on BBC NORTHWEST (6:30pm bulletin)

(occams razor: moderated for use of real names)


TV

  • chipmunk
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 17:39

What a comment from Mr. Brown ..

He talked about the increase to 50K and when challenged about the many depositors who had more then 50K he seemed to dismiss this as not relevant as they had put in place the 50K deal......ie he just repeated himself with no regard to the many of us that had far more than 50K on deposit.....

Not good for a first minister but then they dont want bad publicity do they....


Just watched it myself

  • Diver
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 17:51

What an absolute joke the IoM 'government' is!!! What an absolute idiot Brown is! If that is what we have representing us against the Icelandic Government we are well and truly stuffed. We don't need the Butcher, Baker & Candlestick maker representing us, we clearly need the UK government. The IoM is a UK protectorate and we (and it) clearly need protecting. The sooner we start heaping pressure on Downing st and Whitehall the better as we're clearly wasting our time with jokers like Brown (the IoM version), it seems like he doesn't actually understand what armageddon is headding the IoM's way if this crisis isn't resolved in the same way as it's being resolved in the UK.


BBC North West Tonight

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 16:08

Watch on Sky channel 978, or online via http://www.bbc.co.uk/northwesttonight/ (after it's been on-air, obviously!)


50k

  • justr
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 15:37

It seems that concentration is purely on accounts in excess of 50K, maybe due to the recent increase in depositors cover, however, nobody has assured us yet that the funds needed for 50K cover will ever be available. We should not allow the media to be mistaken in the belief that only people with over 50 K will lose their money.


50k

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 17:55

I tried sooo hard.


Pay up front, recover later

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 16:02

The Manx Government could be lobbied to have their compensation fund borrow the monies up front and pay it out, and then have the banks pay that off over time.

That is how the UK scheme works, and manages to pay out quite quickly. The paying banks also pay the interest that the compensation fund's loans accrue.


Pay up front, recover later

  • justr
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 16:16

that has given me some hope, how would we go about lobbying and when would it be appropriate I wonder


Lobbying

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 17:39

The Manx politicians and the Manx FSC would be the people to contact. Details have already been posted elsewhere on this forum.

The appropriate time would be now. They are revisiting the terms of the scheme on the 21st, before it comes into operation for KSF on the 24th.

However, the existing terms already allow the FSC to borrow the money, so there are no legal obstacles to the Manx government running it in this way.

It doesn't help with money over 50k, but it would mean that all depositors would get some funds back reasonably soon, which would help many that have things to pay off in the near future.


more stories of ordinary people caught up in this mess

  • humphrey
  • 10/10/08 01/03/11
  • a depositor
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EXPAT INTERVIEW ON BBC

  • mikepapa
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 15:06

Not sure if it has been posted elsewhere on the stite, however if not, here is the link for Expat's
Interview from BBC webpage:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/isle_of_man/7666300.stm

Thanks Steve


Thanks, a visual interview

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 15:33

Thanks, a visual interview should be on BBC NW on the six o'clock news


ICELAND REVIEW - IMF LOAN

  • mikepapa
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 14:21

ICELAND REVIEW

  • TheThurloSquire
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 14:53

This looks encouraging to me..... also see liquidators press release today....http://www.kaupthingsingers.co.uk/services/international-banking


We Are Lacking direction

  • Monkeyface3604
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 14:08

Everyone

We have done extremely well to get this up and running so far but i fear today we are really starting to lack direction.
I work for the police in missing persons, we have a computer system whereby we can create tasks and then assign them to people to action/resove
This sort of system would be brilliant if we could incorporate it here so that we know where we are with each enquiry (im not very IT literate so not sure how realistic this is)
If MatWalker or NG want to contact me to discuss then i am more than happy.

I do think we need to approach the U.K. goverment to:
1. Confirm they are aware of our plight and are representing us in the Icelandic talks
2. To acknowledge they are aware that IOM funds are caught up in the U.K. as a result of the goverment freezing Kauthing U.K.

We also need to sort out someone for this channel 4 interview (see my previous post) This is a valuable opportunity if managed well


Momkeyface I AM SURE THAT

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 15:30

Momkeyface
I AM SURE THAT OVER TIME YOU WILL FIND THAT THE uk GOV IS WELL AWARE OF WHAT IS HAS ANd hasn't got. To get them to akknowledge anything right now would be a little difficult, I am certain Cameron is already aware as he has been deluged locally. Rumour and it is only rumour of course that Iceland wishes to sue over this, Kaupthings demise that is, is likely to be focus some attention.
Not all diplomats and and politicians are stupid I assure you,

AS t channel 4 I'll do it if you want, but they have to come to me I am already lost!!!


KSF chairman explains absence

  • Mike
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 13:55

KSF Chairman

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 14:26

The KSF Chairman is Donald Gelling, Chief Minister of the Isle of Man until 2006.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Gelling


KSF IoM

  • allgreen
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 13:52

I agree with an earlier comment about the wording of the new depositors compensation scheme re KSF IoM.
having spoken with the authorities there, it looks to be that they have made an error in the new document where they have not excluded all those who were previously excluded..i.e trusts charities businesses.

For any Lawyers out there see
http://www.gov.im/lib/docs/fsc/handbooks/guides/Banking/bankingappendixc...
and check out the exclusions section (also see clause 8 1.a which is a bit of a get out).
allgreen


Anomalies

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 14:13

The scheme is due back in Tynwald (parliament) on the 21st, which is before the date set for the Court to hear the winding-up petition (24th), so these aren't necessarily the final regulations that the compensation would be paid under.


Iceland Review

  • IanAbroad
  • 11/10/08 13/08/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 13:48

http://www.icelandreview.com/icelandreview/daily_news/?cat_id=40764&ew_0...

No idea if this is relevant to our situation except for the fact it shows that politics is still the name of the game.


Channel 4 news

  • Monkeyface3604
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 13:48

Hi Evereyone

If you have seen the forum entitled channle 4 news, i have been in contact with Nick Martin the reported. I originally set it up for him to go and see Poorpoppy in France and get her story, this has unfortunately fell through.
We now need to get someone else as this is too big an opportunity to miss but we only have a short time before it becomes history. Anyone who thinks their story will be suitable e mail me and we can sort something out. We need vulnerable (retired, supporting disabled child or family member, tec) who has lost everything, preferably in UK, must be over 50K as he has pointed out depositors scheme covers below this.
People please dont expect someone else to do this, if you are suitable put yourself forward or we may loose a valuable chance to be heard


Monkeyface, I am not totally

  • sleeplessnight
  • 10/10/08 30/06/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 15:05

Monkeyface, I am not totally comfortable about it but my husband and I are prepared to tell our story as it is current and I think particularly if it goes on a rival station to BBC1 could get quite a lot of coverage. You may not think it's suitable, I have posted it previously on 'our stories' let me know, if you think it would help. I'm just really concerned we are loosing time and opportunities.


Bank lines open

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 13:36

The KSF bank lines are now open but they really cant tell you anything.
They are going to send statements out to all depositors


KSF IOM customers get gloomy mention here

  • humphrey
  • 10/10/08 01/03/11
  • a depositor
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RE: Only £26m

  • manu_fr
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 12:22

I believe the IOM Today reporter simply sum up the figures we quoted as loss on this web site...
That's clearly incorrect and only meaningful for our own community.


Only £26m

  • IanAbroad
  • 11/10/08 13/08/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 12:10

Here, http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/26m-owed-in-Kaupthing-Singer.4585380.jp
it is saying only £26m and 200 creditors.
Surely these figures are incorrect? There must be many more people effected?
I can not believe KSF IoM was ran for this sum.


Only 26m

  • skintagainnow
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 12:28

They are only reporting the sums and investors from this site - not an official total.

Be wary of the stories some newspapers report on.


Re: £26m

  • Diver
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 13:12

Even if they used this website they're still quite a way out. Using the results of the poll we already have 237 depositors and counting. Then if you take the median figure for each band and multiply it by the number of people claiming losses in that band (I assumed a conservative £1.5m for those that said > £1m) and add it all up we get 237 depositors owed approximately £50m. This is clearly all very approximate and we obviously don't have all depositors voting on here but it's probably safe to assume that the final figure will be a heck of a lot bigger.


Confusion

  • alanmac
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 11:59

There seems to be great confusion over what is and what isn't, virtually a case of the blind leading the blind. There was a report on Bloomberg that the Icelandic Government would honour all depositors of all foreign units of all its banks. We have not been able to find any follow up on this. Nevertheless it is clearly against the Icelandic Government that we should address ourselves, in the first instance, and hopefully they will follow the EU and UK model.

Concerning the IOM Compensation of Depositors Regualtions of 2008 the Statutory Docement itself does not specifically exclude companies under para 10 - exceptions from entitlement to compensation. The paragraph refers to individuals without definition but does specifically exclude partnerships and other specific examples. There may be a legal challenge therefore based on what maybe ambiguous wording within the wording of the Statutory document.


Icelandic government

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 12:28

Beware of reporters simplifying situations to make their reports easier to read.

The Icelandic Government had a commitment to pay compensation to people whose money was directly invested in the Icelandic branches of the banks - as was the case with the Icesave internet bank.

When Icesave/Landsbanki collapsed, the Icelandic Government originally said it couldn't afford to pay out on their depositor guarantees, and would only pay Icelandic citizens.

The more recent reports are covering the Icelandic Governments reversal of that position, in that they are promising to honour their commitments to the overseas depositors.

Neither KSF UK nor KSF(IOM) would fall directly into this category, however KSF(IOM) does have a guarantee from Kaupthing Iceland that is still unresolved.


On a lighter note

  • humphrey
  • 10/10/08 01/03/11
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 10:04

You still have to try and smile sometimes even in the darkest of moments, some of the names people have used to join this forum just cracked me up!

Krapthing and Bob shafted to name but two!