General Discussions

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
  • a depositor
  • Offline
Posted: Fri, 10/10/2008 - 05:39

Any general chat about what is going on that doesn't fall into any other categories.

IMPORTANT: How to post links to related News on other sites

As of 21/Oct/08 we have a searchable news archive. Site editors (and anybody else who wants to help) now have the mammoth task of find and re-posting all relevant links that were posted in forums and re-posting as a news item into the archive.

It would be appreciated if you didn't make the task even bigger than it currently is.

Please post news items using the Create new News item link near top of right side-bar.

4.833335
Your rating: None Average: 4.8 (6 votes)

Comment viewing options
Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Legal representation

  • Knife Edge
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 21:52

I suppose that this is the next step, but bear in mind that the liquidator provisionally's job is to gather in the assets of KSFIOM for the creditors (which include us), so Mr Simpson will be doing this.

At the moment the most important thing is to do as expat and others have advised, which is to keep the story in the news and to apply pressure on the powers that be without becoming too accusatory or inflammatory, in the way that expat did on the news. Getting embroiled in a legal process will take more time than anyone wants to spend and should be the last resort. That doesn't mean the ducks can't be got in a row for that, but it means that we unfortunately have to wait until we hear from Mr Simpson or someone else who has the power to determine the outcome of this.


LEGAL REPRESENTATION - Knife

  • sleeplessnight
  • 10/10/08 30/06/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 21:59

LEGAL REPRESENTATION - Knife Edge I'm afraid I disagree. Our situationis beyond that of a liquidator, who ar purely Accountants. We need legal assistance NOW to cut through the red tape an get our questions answered. Liquidation procedures are slow and drawn out and never ever do the creditors get wholly recompensed. Our predicament is the result of a set of unusual circumstances that can be attributed by blame to a set of parties that can and WILL be responsible to compensate us all.

I believe we can get somebody experienced onboard and whether are able to persuade them to work on retrospective success, pay by an equl fee each, or as a proportion of our potential losses it is imerative we do so ASAP

NG please let's open forum for legal representation and put it to the vote


LEGAL REPRESENTATION

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 23:42

What on earth do you think is your cause of action against these parties who you say are to blame? If one of them is a corporation in liquidation, you can forget it because they cannot be sued.


That is precisely the point.

  • sleeplessnight
  • 10/10/08 30/06/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 08:09

That is precisely the point. we are not looking for recompense form the dregs of a liquidation, especially after PCW have exacted their hefty fee, we would see nothing. We need legal representation to affirm 1. the parental guarantees 2. the tracking of the funds 3. whether or not the UK Gov have a responsibility to those UK citizens who banked with IoM branch as they have promised to the UK branch. We need to understand if we can pursue something in the European courts also as a last result if IoM or UK are not going to help us.


I agree

  • madmax836
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 22:09

I agree with Sleeplessnights


insideline

  • frozenrover
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 21:15

Are you able to confirm the present financial situation of KSFIOM - ie
Total Depositors funds £
and how split -
Cash held £
Loan book £
Due from UK £
Due from Iceland £


We need to meet - and very soon

  • Elpasout
  • 10/10/08 31/08/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 20:56

Agree with comments below. The two TV interviews were fantastic. Both Steve and Ruth cannot be faulted.

Unfortunately the stories the media picked (cos they always want the drama) MAY just reinforce a view that it is on a "few rich b**tards" who have been affected" And that would be a shot in both feet.

I too (as several people here) am prepared to jump on a plane tomorrow morning to IOM if there are enough people there (in the pm or eve say) to make a face to face MEETING and a DECISION on WHO is going to do WHAT next - for the group - a viable proposition.

The website has been fantastic at getting us all together, but we cannot expect to make decisions in this way. Expat, Blair, Mat , etc have all tried and it is painful to watch.

I say the time has come for an immediate meeting of any people who can physically do so to thrash out the FACTS the POSSIBILITIES and a STRATEGY. And we need to do it fast.

What say you?


Hello all I have not signed

  • Ally
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 21:09

Hello all

I have not signed up before as unfortunately I have been away with work for a few days.

I live and work in the Isle of Man and have lost approximately one third of my life savings with the collapse of KSF.

I have been in touch with the local paper and made myself available for interview I have also contacted my MHK (the equivalent of an MP) to try and empasise how important this issue is to the Isle of Man.

I a qualified accountant and currently work in the Isle of Man funds industry. I am keen on meeting up with any action committee in the Isle of Man and hopefully I can be of some help.

My local knowledge would say don't expect the Isle of Man government do anything without substantial pressure being applied. My opinion has always been of a bunch of amateurs and what has happend in the last week has given me no confidence at all in the Isle of Man government.

That is not to say I don't think something can be done.


Welcome aboard

  • Elpasout
  • 10/10/08 31/08/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 21:48

Your local knowledge and accountancy background will I feel sure be very useful to the group.


local contact

  • thesunnysouth
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 21:15

Ally,
There are several people intending to travel to IoM in the next few days. We have an unnoficial spokesperson who is on this site as Expat. he is ataying locally in a hotel and has done interviews for the BBC etc and attempting to link in with local people of influence. unfortunately he is not a local and for the last few days has been alone in the sense of working on the island but supported by us all in what he is doing. It would i suggest be very helpful if you were to contact him on this site. i feel sure he would welcome the support. There are several others and a few have been in telephone contact with each other.


Totally agree. I have been

  • sleeplessnight
  • 10/10/08 30/06/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 21:08

Totally agree. I have been advocating this from the start. I am prepared to get to wherever somehow. Please let's activate this ASAP. I think we will feel relief when we come together as a group. as long as agenda is set before hand to ensure a controlled and co-ordinated meeting.


Glad to see you can make

  • Elpasout
  • 10/10/08 31/08/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 22:06

Glad to see you can make meeting in IOM - if this where we agree is best. Also agree with yours and others view on legal representation.

I have asked Mat or ng to copy/move this part of this thread to the Meetings section where it should have been (my fault).


We need to meet

  • jane maloney
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 21:02

Yes I agree - where when how ?????

Count me in - can someone organise ?


meeting

  • rippedoff
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 07:36

I agree with the idea of UK meeting - anywhere, anytime. Those of us that cannot make it should defer to go with majority vote on any proposals. We need to been seen as a coherent, relatively well organised and focus group of victims - we're not that yet!

At the meeting we probably would need media representation/access and legal rep. Maybe those amongst us have that experience?

I still think IOM government are rather powerless (hope I'm wrong) and Gordon Brown won't instinctively leap to our aid but please remember politicians (esp. Labour) act on only 2 criteria;

  1. Will it gain us votes if we do it?
  2. Will it lose us votes if we don't do it?

We must focus on the latter in light of Ruth's interview and those of expat and Dave. We've got to expand teh media interest and paint Flash Gordon as an uncaring glory hunter who will never support your sons and daughters if they chose to live or work abroad or chose to save their hard earned money in one place.

I also think we need to coordinate our activities to expose the capitulation of the Manx Government in the face of adversity (Switzerland it ain't; they managed some sort of stability during WW2).

I might be wrong in my assessment and I'm sure many of you will have other, better thoughts but to convert those thoughts to action we need a meeting to move forward efficiently.

Can we have some debate about place/date?


Where to meet? And when?

  • Elpasout
  • 10/10/08 31/08/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 21:22

I suggest Douglas is the obvious place? (not for my convenience - I live in Canary Isles - but am in Surrey at the moment). Or London? Lets see what others feel.

We need to ensure that the people who have been the most active and effective in the group so far can be there eg expat, blair, mat, monkeyface, etc (I know I have missed lots out). And we need to do it quickly.

I will ask ng to move this thread to a separate subject in this section perhaps - as there seems to be a fair agreement already that this is the way forward.


In Surrey

  • Monkeyface3604
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 22:53

I can do London, cant really do IOM as i have work commitements, Im also in Surrey at the moment


Pls give us 48 hours to book

  • chipmunk
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 21:01

Pls give us 48 hours to book flights.....we are world wide...then advise the venue....

This has to be an intelligent meeting not a shouting match....

We need a leader / spokesperson....

We need to move fast but the ground work must be done...

Im with you


where to meet

  • amar
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 21:24

I can be there as well. Please be clear about any planned arrangements


I'll show up

  • Diver
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 20:58

just tell were where and when...I actually want to meat Beardy myself.


Meeting beardy

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 21:20

That's not too hard... pop into Tony Brown Electrics, 5 Arbory Street, Castletown on a Saturday. You could by some lightbulbs or a 'small domestic electrical appliance' whilst there.

You can email the Mr Brown personally on tonybrown1(?)manx [dot] net


Bagpuss' hat

  • Kaupthing Over ...
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 09:03

Hey dose ,do you reckon he's got an electric tin opener there, I could open up the mouse organ and see if there's any cash stashed inside.
Shame ol bagpuss hasn't been using any of his thinking caps so far.
I guess he's been too busy ordering heavy duty electric fans for the shop.


re meeting beardy

  • skintagainnow
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 23:00

Ok I'm not normally a gambling man - but what the odds he'll not be there this weekend....


RE Meeting beardy

  • skintagainnow
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 22:11

'small domestic electrical appliance' LOL better not say anything or it'll be deleted, but I guess you get my drift sort 'o' speak


Please sir, can I have some more?

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline

lol

  • sosnovka
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 21:28

:)


Banks

  • JD
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 20:53

How can the other IOM banks not be behind this compensation scheme - without it wouldnt all the banks' deposits be cleared out as of yesterday?


I have an idea

  • Monkeyface3604
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 20:42

The company hasnt been wound up yet and wont be until the 24th (or so they say) this to me seems to be D Day.

My thoughts are that some of us in the mean time could work on an investments prospectus (think thats how its spealt) for the IOM. This could highlight some of the realities that about the IOM that have come to light since this inciden,. E.g. a page about the goverment, showing them in their ex/part time jobs as buiders, shop keepers etc, another maybe about showing various high level officials interests in Kapthing. Can you see where i am running with this. Tongue in cheek private eye sort of this. This could then be released to the press on the day of winding up. Give them a few tasy morsels.

What do people think? Its got potential to get a lot of public interest but we need to consider any possible damage it could cause.


Good angle. Are you Uk based

  • sleeplessnight
  • 10/10/08 30/06/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 20:53

Good angle. Are you Uk based monkeyface? I feel part of our issue of proceeding with all these bright ideas is that we can't get together as real party. I am willing to travel. I am feeling really frustrated at the moment and want to start lobbying or coming together with all these great ideas ASAP


Yes im based in the U.K.,

  • Monkeyface3604
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 21:02

Yes im based in the U.K., near London


London meet

  • Kaupthing Over ...
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 10:18

HI monkeyface ,there seems to be quite a few of us around and about the london area and I'm sure there's plenty more who haven't posted but would turn up for a meeting.
In fact this whole site could do with some kind of geographical coverage checklist of members.


If you check the Actions

  • Monkeyface3604
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 21:06

If you check the Actions forum someone else suggested setting up an Isleofmuppets.com, the two ideas could be merged


SOH

  • DXB
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 21:20

Appreciate the sense of humour displayed. Just a boring word of caution that a smear campaign against the IoM could be counterproductive if we'd like a white knight to come to the rescue.
As the material on this site is public, we should also collectively be careful about potentially libellous comments.
Let's be proactive, by all means. But let's do so intelligently. We need a high profile, but we also need quite a bit of political goodwill.


Goodwill out

  • Diver
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 21:22

The IoM government threw out whatever Goodwill was due to them with Tony Brown's dismissive comments tonight.


This can be a work in

  • Monkeyface3604
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 22:55

This can be a work in progress away from the public but one that can be pulled out the bag if we need it. To be honest it wont sink the bank system but could cause a lot of media interest.


Tony Brown IOM PM

  • Ashoker
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • not prepared to answer
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 20:36

Is the Action Group directly in touch with the office of Tony Brown? If so - what is he proposing to do exactly, and when?


Tony Brown - tonybrown1@manx.net

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 21:37

I sent Mr Brown the following email at 17:15 UK time:

"Dear Mr Brown

Please let me know what steps are being taken by the IOM government to raise funds to enable the FCS to pay out under the new Depositors' Compensation Scheme. I was a saver with KSF (IOM) and still have funds with Alliance & Leicester Limited. I have to decide whether to withdraw my savings from A&L (IOM) and the effectiveness of the Depositors' Compensation Scheme is an important factor in my decision, as neither A&L (UK) nor Santander are guaranteeing my deposit.

Regards"

No response yet...


He is proposing to twiddle

  • Monkeyface3604
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 20:48

He is proposing to twiddle his comedy moustache and click his ruby red slippers together till this all goes away!!!


Repayment

  • giveus backourfunds
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 20:35

Does anyone have any idea when money would be paid out, I have £21,000.00 loss and I am hearing different stories.

The latset is that the banks are not happy that Tywald did not consult with them on the new package and they are going to fight it . has anyone else heard that ?


Repayment

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 20:51

Currently, it's looking like it'd be over several years - as the money trickles in from the other banks. They still have a fund open from the BCCI collapse.

Hard to see quite how the banks can fight the new scheme, other than shutting up and shipping out - Tynwald is the parliament, they have a pretty free hand in passing whatever laws they like.


You are right. Some members

  • Stakeknife
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 20:49

You are right. Some members of the Isle of Man Bankers Association are furious


up to them

  • Diver
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 20:53

In that case it's up to them to stand up and be counted otherwise they'll see their little empire fall into the water around them. Where are they? Why aren't they in the press or on the TV?


insideline

  • barbados
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 20:53

insideline did you say you worked for KSFIOM?


Expat Money blogspot

  • JD
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 20:34

Have you read this. Sorry if a bit behind the times !
http://expatmoney.blogspot.com/
Interesting


Incorrect

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 20:46

Interesting, but not correct. For a start, the Isle of Man Kaupthing Edge accounts we're transferred to ING...


Re expat money expert

  • skintagainnow
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 20:47

Some expert if she can't even tell the difference between the UK branch and IoM......

She's refering to both in the blog and savings are now with ING

OH DEAR

Quote from site
The Bank’s website at www.kaupthingsingers.co.uk claims that all Kaupthing Edge retail deposits are safe. Monies have been “legally transferred” by the Isle of Man’s Treasury to Dutch bank ING Direct, which, through the ING Group, is now the ultimate owner of Kaupthing Edge*.

If only that were true
"


Mr Brown

  • chipmunk
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 20:32

I absolutley agree Mr Brown showed his true self. He had no interest whatsoever and just mumbled on about the 50K pounds and all is fine......Shame on you Mr. Brown...or more to the point we have to start getting Lawyers involved and a few writs issued........yes, softly softly is not working . We are not been heard and the IOM government.

Look ..I am prepared t go to IOM tomorrow and meet Mr. Thomas and support him....but better still I feel we (I) should be getting high power lawyers involved...get their advise and push forward from there..


I agree with Chipmunk

  • madmax836
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 20:52

I agree wholeheartedly with you we need the professional expert lawyers on our side. Anybody else agree ?

Gordon Brown and his Darling have done well in the public eye (for the British Isles and the rest of the World) but not for the IOM and if we are not careful we will be yesterdays news !


agree - we need to get on

  • sleeplessnight
  • 10/10/08 30/06/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 21:20

agree - we need to get on with appointing.


Mr Brown

  • jane maloney
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 20:36

Sadly I agree - we are not really moving forward


BBC NW & SOUTH INTERVIEWS

  • mikepapa
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 20:37

Both interveiws were very good - thanks to the contibutors.

I have just spoken to Expat Steve who is not able to get on line at the moment.
He asked me to pass on to all, that whilst his comments were heavily cut, he is pleased with the result, apart from of course, the IOM PM's comments with which he is far from happy.

We now need to try and get these stories out nationwide.
Anyone in UK with any connections in National Newpapers/TV/radio please do your best to get our story out.