Formulate a Strategy

  • broke1
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
Posted: Tue, 21/10/2008 - 08:26

Now the site is more active GMT time, further to my post 'We Need a Strategy...' and replies to it, can the better informed among us maybe work on this idea of a strategy?

I'm thinking especially from the far-distant expats point of view, being one of those myself: lobbying, focus of lobbying (key points to push etc) and a new campaign for the media. Assuming that the hearing will be delayed (is that what we should be hoping for?) what could be the focus of a bridging campaign between this week and next, so that more appears in the newspapers over the weekend?

Last weekend we were well covered with personally-slanted stories. Could we do more of the same but trying to debunk some of the tax-dodging myth?

Have we/should we ask FSC to postpone hearing?

Have we all emailed the Treasury with questions?

Can we call up the press release put together around the petition and re-phrase according to new knowledge, and prefix that to everything we send out ?

0
Your rating: None

Comment viewing options
Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

LIQUIDATION DEFINITELY NOT - HERE'S WHY

  • 1log
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 13:25

All of us want our money back 100%. The moment liquidation starts, money starts draining. We have been writing to Aspden, Kermode, Bell etc to bring them to postpone a court hearing. Why are we stuck with a non-comforting response?
Here are my thoughts - Mike Simpson is the provisional liquidator, and represents US the creditors. But, he gets his payout probably as a percentage only if KSF is liquidated, otherwise his pay is probably nominal. There is the conflict of interest.
Even though he says that it is not in his hands to postpone the hearing, IT IS IN HANDS TO PROVIDE EVIDENCE AT THE HEARING AS TO WHY KSF SHOULD NOT BE LIQUIDATED. Has he the evidence or is he waiting for Friday to axe KSF? Judging by his 20th Oct report, he said 'WHEN' it is liquidated NOT 'IF' and this worries me a lot - No KSFUK FUNDS or ANY DEFINITE BUYERS YET.
Further, FSC have replied to our emails saying that 1) they are a joint petitioner with KSFIOM!!! asking for a court hearing and 2) They will decide about the timing before (WHAT DOES THIS TIMING MEAN) the court hearing. We are already nearing 48 hours BEFORE, so how 'before' is this decision going to be?
Unless we prevent the people entering the courtroom by postponement, we are hung out once the hearing starts!! Reversing liquidation in IOM (If this is ever possible practically)- WASTE OF OUR money and certainly a gain for anyone who gets a proportion of our money!!!
WE SHOULD PRESSURISE IN ANY WAY WE CAN TO GET FSC TO POSTPONE> Mike Simpson will not talk about the political scenario that may develop in the next few days or weeks. He will only state the legal facts as it stands now - and it is not looking good!!! SO GET THE FSC TO POSTPONE NOW OR GET LEGAL ADVICE NOW FOR US TO POSTPONE - What are the views?


LIQUIDATION -Expat, Dave,Elpsaout IOM what is the opinion?

  • 1log
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 13:59

Since the general feeling is that we should postpone and we have all been writing to kermode, bell aspden, why are we getting a stone wall response? Is Bell on our side - and if so what is his true opinion on Friday hearing - surely his words will mean something to the FSC. Why cant they say it atleast 24 -48 hours before the proposed hearing rather than wait. Maybe Expat, Dave bradden and Elpsaout have any more information that will put things in a clearer perspective?


Liquidation Delay

  • 208
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 14:24

This is an extract from the speech given by Hon Tony Brown IOM Chief Minister today to Tynwald. It is evident that he shares the view of Mr Bell that the liquidation should be delayed. The full transcript has been posted on the forum.

"I do not consider it would be appropriate, while negotiations are ongoing, to reveal details of the negotiations. I am, however, willing to say that our efforts internationally are aimed at seeking to prevent Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander (Isle of Man) from going into liquidation."

I spoke to the FSC this morning and was told that the ground swell of opinion was that the liquidation should be delayed. My opinion is that we lose nothing if we delay it. It may give us more time to assess the political, legal and financial news still coming in.


Expat, Dave thanks - why the courtroom?

  • 1log
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 14:33

You guys have been truly phenomenal. My gratitude and my heartfelt wishes for all your hardwork. I understand that there are discussions at this stage but surely within the next 48 hours, the FSC should postpone if they want the best for us - Frankly this is the ONLY THING in their control!!


Court Hearing

  • Ally
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 14:40

Even if the FSC decide that they want to delay the matter must still go back to court on 24th.

It is the Court, on hearing the arguements put to it that will decide whether the liquidation should be delayed or not.

However the FSC could still state before the Court hearing that it is their intention to ask for a delay


Its a matter of law,

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 14:08

Its a matter of law, politicians needs do not come into this, its due process we are trying to talk to the fSC today, it is not a matter i can comment much on the legal eagles are in discussion on this matter. our info is that there will be many representationns to the court to stop this, but i awaitng guidance fromm eople better versed in this than i ma.


Well, 'tis time for all those

  • Captain Mainwaring
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 14:13

Well, 'tis time for all those discussions to be made a bit more public - or the whole lot is going to go down the khazi.


i am just as pensive as you

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 14:16

i am just as pensive as you captain


My view too. My email to the

  • Captain Mainwaring
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 13:33

My view too.

My email to the FSC:-

Dear Ms. Baxendale,

Thank you for you email the contents of which have been noted.

OK, let us change tack on this a little - yes , it is quite clear that depositors have to seek outside representation - and only a Manx lawyer is suitable by proxy.

However - the FSC must have received countless emails regarding the proposed liquidation, all stating how the circumstances have changed substantially since the petition, thus, is the FSC considering the views of depositors and also noting the very fluid nature of events - IMF loan to Iceland, funds frozen in the UK, quite possibly illegally, and the potential for a buyer to be found?

Regards,

On Tue Oct 21 13:29 , "Baxendale, Ruth" sent:

Dear

Thank you for your comments in relation to the date for the petition for winding up to be presented to the Court in the Isle of Man. The Commission, as joint petitioner, has not yet fully determined its position in relation to this matter and will be considering information from relevant parties ahead of the hearing.

Please refer to the following link for information regarding creditors supporting or opposing the making of an order: http://www.fsc.gov.im/lib/docs/fsc/PressReleases/advertisednotice.pdf

Yours sincerely

Ruth Baxendale

Supervision Officer - Banking

Financial Supervision Commission

PO Box 58, Finch Hill House,

Bucks Road, Douglas

Isle of Man, IM99 1DT

Tel: (44) 1624 689376

Fax: (44) 1624 689398

Email: ruth [dot] baxendale(?)fsc [dot] gov [dot] im


From:
Sent: 21 October 2008 09:35
To: Aspden, John
Subject: KSF IoM

Dear Sir,

It is with increasing despair I note that little is being done to reassure depositors that the Friday liquidation of KSF IoM will not go ahead, we have all read the news and can see that at the time of retraction of the banking license, KSF IoM was in a fairly reasonable trading condition, and that effective bankruptcy was not an issue. We also note a great deal of activity in terms of finding a buyer, and also an IMF load to Iceland that would potentially enable them to honour their parental guarantee, not withstand of course that the sum of around GBP 550 million is still frozen by the actions of the UK Treasury which may themselves have been illegal.

I would like to know, that bearing in mind that Friday's hearing is to protect the interests of depositors, how depositors themselves can petition to set aside the petition until a more reasonable time when all information has become clear, and that any legal action required to unfreeze funds and have them returned to the bank have been instituted?

I am sure that there are processes available to have the petition set aside and the liquidation delayed pending realisation of assets, and also to seek a potential purchaser of the bank - can you please advise as to the application of these processes? Obviously time is paramount at this stage, and if liquidaction goes ahead, then the only possible winner can be Mr. Simpson and PWC.

I look forward to your reply,

Thanks and regards,


Desperation strategy

  • barbararsa
  • 17/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 11:05

I have read a lot of stories and we mostly seem to be thrifty hard working people who have saved for our future and got robbed. There seems to be a resignation to working even harder and just carrying on somehow. Duh, like wrong dude. Why do we not just come back to London and throw ourselves and our families on the welfare state? That must be a few hundred thousand of us.
All the asylum seekers get accomodation, why not us? There must be a lot of rooms going spare, in politians second homes; indeed doesnt Cherie Blair have a number of properties in the area? Easy enough to find out on the internet. Change your thinking, the old way didnt work.
Anarchy doesnt even cover it.


DELAY THE HEARING

  • Julienne
  • 16/10/08 31/08/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 10:56

I have just received the following e -mail from FSC IOM - in relation to delaying the hearing - doesn't say much but at least it is another piece of info.... and another contact NAME ...

RE: Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander - Court hearing
From: Kermode, Andrew (Andrew [dot] Kermode(?)fsc [dot] gov [dot] im)
Add contact
Sent:21 October 2008 10:03:36
To: JULIENNE

Thank you for your comments in relation to the date for the petition for winding up to be presented to the Court in the Isle of Man. The Commission, as joint petitioner, has not yet fully determined its position in relation to this matter and will be considering information from relevant parties ahead of the hearing.

Regards

Andrew

Andrew Kermode

Senior Manager - Supervision

Financial Supervision Commission

PO Box 58, Finch Hill House,

Bucks Road, Douglas

Isle of Man, IM99 1DT

Tel: (44) 1624 689320

Fax: (44) 1624 689399

Email: andrew [dot] kermode(?)fsc [dot] gov [dot] im


another email to kermode

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 11:07

Have also written to request delay (similar to letters on the London Update thread) - which I can't seem to find now).


Julienne what is Bell's email address please?

  • sabi Star
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 10:16

Don't see Allan Bell's e-mail address.


BELL'S MAIL ADDRESS

  • Julienne
  • 16/10/08 31/08/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 10:47

Sorry to all - THE most important bit !!

treasuryadmin(?)gov [dot] im

I Sent it here - which I thinkI found further down on this thread - but good mailing - need more action like this


Delay the Friday hearing

  • Julienne
  • 16/10/08 31/08/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 09:50

If it is of any help I have just sent this :--

Dear Mr Bell

It is my understanding the Mike Simpson of Price Waterhouse Coopers is to go to court on Friday 24th to ask for the Icelandic branch of Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander to be taken into Official Receivership.
It is also my understanding that you are the only person that can help us, the innocent depositors in the bank, delay this action in so much that IOM laws state that you can reverse liquidation, but once the process starts, I fear our money pot starts to drain!! So we should get a postponement of the hearing.

I urge you on our behalf to do so as it would seem that selling the assets of what was a VERY liquid bank cannot be in anyone's interest. People in the IOM will loose their jobs, Kudos in the IOM banking system will be lost and many innocent people all over the world stand to loose their lifelong savings.

Regards
Julienne Arden-Rose - a depositor with Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander

May be more of us should do the same..


Delay the hearing

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 11:06

Here goes another...

Dear Allan Bell,

I have been uplifted by most of your comments made on Manx Radio recently and wish to add my voice to the many from the KSFIOM Action Group calling for a delay in the liquidation of the company. Such action cannot surely be to the benefit of the depositors at this time. Our many voices and democratic concerns should be given due consideration.

Yours faithfully,


The future

  • Julienne
  • 16/10/08 31/08/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 09:35

There are a number of comments on the forum General discussion - re Friday's court hearing and the need to delay it.
may be this forum should include influence the IOM FSC in the title -
I have sent a mail to john [dot] aspden(?)fsc [dot] gov [dot] im of IOM FSC - should I also send to the Minister as well- who CAN delay the hearing on Friday can anyone tell me??
It is in our interest to get a stay of execution - surely??


Guernsey girl I agree Allan Bell should influence FSC

  • 1log
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 09:23

Whilst it is great that Mr Bell is saying the right things we want to hear, he could probably best helpat this point by influencing FSC to postpone the hearing. Should we do the usual and send as many emails? Just to think about the fact that suddenly, some of the crucial questions have dissappeared off the Tynwald MHK question time list!! We have to see real action from the IOM government now, not just waiting for the UK and Iceland bits to happen!! PREVENT LIQUIDATION on FRIDAY. I understand that IOM laws state that you can reverse liquidation, but once the process starts, I fear our money pot starts to drain!! So we should get a postponement of the hearing.


Action/strategy

  • Guernsey Girl
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 21/10/2008 - 09:05

Having read the latest articles in IOM Today it seems that Minister Allan Bell is on the same wavelength as us. If we can postpone the liquidation until after the IMF bail-out of Iceland kicks in there would be much more chance of the business being bought.

As the Liquidator cannot petition should we all contact Allan Bell and ask him to lobby the FSC to petition the IOM High Court to postpone? He should also be best placed to suggest a postponement date too.

The contact e-mail is 'treasuryadmin(?)gov [dot] im'.