Final Distribution

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
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Posted: Wed, 13/02/2019 - 09:29

Just as it seemed that, following the last of a succession of Court cases, the end of this liquidation really was imminent, a new ‘issue’ has raised its ugly head, with no suggestion of how long it may take to resolve: http://www.kaupthingsingers.co.im/2019/february/12february2019/

I understand that the Liquidator’s lawyers are now working on this. But I do not understand why this issue could not have been foreseen and the necessary legal advice obtained long ago re the status of these frozen accounts for which no proof of debt has ever been received. It is all very frustrating.

Meanwhile however, I would urge everyone who has not already done so to take the necessary steps now to ensure that you will receive your payment with minimum delay once the present issue is resolved. As described in the update, the action you need to take depends on your status in the liquidation, thus:

If you claimed either EPS or DCS (or both), you will receive your payment from the DCS provided you have completed and returned to the DCS a form to confirm or modify your contact details. You can read their update and download the form on the DCS website: https://www.dcs.im
Note that this represents a significant change for those who claimed EPS but not DCS and have until now received dividends direct from the Liquidator; any details held by the Liquidator will not be passed on to the DCS and you must complete & return the DCS form, together with the 'relevant certified copies' as outlined on their website.

If you claimed neither EPS nor DCS, you will receive your payment directly from the Liquidator’s team. Any changes in your contact details and/or bank account since the last dividend you received should be notified by letter. Otherwise you need take no further action.

Payments to bondholders will be made via the Life Companies, to whom any queries should be addressed.

Bon courage!

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FINAL DISTRIBUTION 31 March 2020 !!

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 11/02/2020 - 19:10

It has now been announced that the FINAL DISTRIBUTION will be made on 31 March and will consist of i) full payment of any deferred interest for those whose uncapitalised interest at 9 Oct 2008 was capped at 5% and ii) statutory interest of at least 1.5 p/£. Full details are here: kaupthingsingers.co.im/updates/

Deferred interest (resulting from the 5% cap on uncapitalised interest at 9 Oct 2008) will now be paid in full (if your claim was adjusted), together with an amount for statutory interest at a rate of 'not less than' 1.5p in the £.

This final dividend will be paid on 31 March 2020.

Depositors with claims directly in the liquidation (and who did not claim EPS) whose bank account details have changed since the tenth dividend in 2014 (and NOT previously advised) need to complete & return the form supplied by 29 February 2020.

Note also that the bank's email address has recently changed.


Final Payment via DCS

  • D RAM
  • 13/10/08 01/08/14
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Wed, 12/02/2020 - 00:10

The Liquidator has announced the Final Distribution will be made on 31 March 2020 . Given this good news I look forward to the DCS following up with its announcement as to its timescale for issuing cheques to those of us who opted for the EPS.


Re payment via DCS

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 14/02/2020 - 08:15

For anyone who missed it, the DCS posted an update on 6 Feb in which they say "Once a dividend has been declared and paid by KSF to DCS in respect of DCS and EPS claimants,there will be a period of time whilst the DCS processes forms, sets a cut off for the first payment run and then administers the relevant payments." https://www.dcs.im/20200206.html

Given the much larger number of potential claimants, I suspect that this 'period of time' is likely to be longer than the 1-2 weeks for previous dividends.

This latest update complements the earlier one which provides explanations of the process and links to the form needed to claim: https://www.dcs.im/


Final distribution - Liquidator communications

  • chb
  • 10/10/08 15/10/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 11/02/2020 - 16:51

Are others having problems contacting the Liquidator? Having not received the letter which was supposedly sent last Thursday, I called the number provided on the website yesterday and again today but found it to be 'temporarily unavailable' on every occasion. E-mails yesterday and today have similarly not met with a reply or acknowledgement. I'm worried that I'm not on the Liquidator's list (because our Bond was previously administered by a Life Insurance company) and was looking for some confirmation from his office. Thoughts from anyone with more insight into how things are working in the Liquidator's offices currently would be appreciated. Thank you very much, CHB


@chb

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 11/02/2020 - 19:14

Have you noted the recent change of the bank's email address (see latest updates) ?

Otherwise I am unable to help, but can confirm that a colleague in UK definitely received the letter on Saturday.


Liquidator comms

  • chb
  • 10/10/08 15/10/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 11/02/2020 - 20:25

Thank you Anrigaut.

I got an e-mail response tonight - from ksf(?)iom [dot] pwc [dot] com - my expectations on speed of response were probably set a little too high. Who knows; maybe the phone problems are related to Storm Ciara...?!

Best wishes to all fellow 'travellers' over the past 11 years or so, especially to the warriors like expat, diver, Gordon 45 and yourself Anrigaut and many, many others. Well done too of course to the CoI and Liquidator and team for what is a considerably better conclusion than I ever imagined possible at the outset.


Thank you

  • sunny1
  • 16/10/08 30/05/14
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 07/02/2020 - 17:18

Thank you Anrigaut for your most helpful messages and further comments, Very much appreciated.


DCS Update 6 Feb 2020

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 07/02/2020 - 14:13

Following the 3 Feb KSFIOM update, an update has been posted on the DCS site: https://www.dcs.im/20200206.html

It concerns all who claimed in the DCS and/or EPS. Nothing more to do provided you already completed the form supplied in Dec 2018 and your details have not changed; otherwise, see here: https://www.dcs.im/

Extracts from the 6 Feb update:

Forms

Subject to further announcements from KSF regarding the timescale for payment of a dividend, the DCS will be setting a final date for forms to be submitted ahead of the first payment run. The date for this payment run will also be communicated at this time.

There will be subsequent payment runs for parties who did not complete and submit forms to the DCS in time to be included in the first payment run.

Timing

The DCS has not been informed by KSF regarding the timing and amount of any dividend to be remitted by KSF to DCS.

Once a dividend has been declared and paid by KSF to DCS in respect of DCS and EPS claimants,there will be a period of time whilst the DCS processes forms, sets a cut off for the first payment run and then administers the relevant payments.


FINAL DISTRIBUTION by 31 March 2020 !!

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 04/02/2020 - 09:48

As noted in the shout box, the latest 6-monthly Report to Creditors is now available on the bank website: https://kaupthingsingers.co.im/updates/

No details yet as to amount, but the final distribution is to be paid by 31 March. Clearly payments made via the DCS will take a little longer.

An announcement will be made on the bank site as soon as the exact timing and amount can be confirmed (para 3/11, page 15).


Final Distribution

  • Blades
  • 19/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 04/02/2020 - 15:58

Thanks for sharing this latest news, much appreciated as always.


Freezing orders settled - FINAL DISTRIBUTOION forthcoming !!

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 23/01/2020 - 13:12

At long last some GOOD NEWS, announced on the bank website today:

"Isle of Man Freezing Orders and Final Distribution
The freezing orders related to a confiscation order issued by the Sheriffs’ Court in Glasgow, which was registered in the Isle of Man in 2018 in the sum of £1.3 million, under the Island’s proceeds of crime legislation. The registration was challenged by the Liquidator, and after proceedings and negotiations in the Isle of Man the Scottish Authorities have agreed to accept £345,404 from KSFIOM.

I will be writing to the creditors who will be paid directly by the liquidator in the next two weeks in relation to the final dividend. If you have claimed under either the Early Payment Schemes and/or The Isle of Man Depositors’ Compensation Scheme, then please contact the DCS Administrator using the below contact details ...."

https://kaupthingsingers.co.im/updates/

DCS website (not yet updated): https://www.dcs.im/


Re Freezing orders settled

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 13/02/2020 - 17:38

I have searched the IOM Courts Online website looking for this judgment without success. It may be that it takes some considerable time to de-personalise it, but I would be happy to hear if anyone has seen anything, anywhere, relating to this outcome.


good news indeed but is there

  • michael12
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 23/01/2020 - 13:17

good news indeed
but is there any indication of final % payout?


@michel12

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 23/01/2020 - 14:00

Apparently no indication of final % payout, nor of exact date of payment - maybe it is still work in progress.

REMINDER to all: As reported earlier, only those with agreed claims directly in the liquidation (ie not through the DCS) AND who did not claim in either of the early payment schemes (EPS) will be paid directly. This represents a change for those who, while not claiming DCS, did claim EPS and who have received all previous distributions directly from the liquidator. Anyone in this situation who has not already done so, shoud complete & submit the required form & documentation to the DCS (as per their website) asap.

Also, if your contact details have changed since last communicated to the DCS, you will need to submit a new form.


just received an email

  • michael12
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 07/02/2020 - 11:43

just received an email stating that
As previously advised, some creditors have had adjustments to the balance admitted for dividend which related to deferred interest. The deferred interest represents the uncapitalised interest earned on accounts at a rate in excess of 5% p.a. for the period from the last contractual interest payment date to 9 October 2008. Under Isle of Man law, dividends cannot be paid in respect of deferred interest until all creditors have been repaid 100% of the amounts due, excluding deferred interest, as at 9 October 2008.
This deferred interest will now be paid in full (if your claim was adjusted), together with an amount for statutory interest at a rate of not less than 1.5P in the E, to non preferential unsecured creditors. This represents formal notice of declaration of the dividend under Rule 96(3) of The Companies (Winding-Up) Rules 1934.
does this mean they will be paying statutory interest of 1.5% from october 2008 until march 2020?
thanks in advance


re: just received an email

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Fri, 07/02/2020 - 19:00

Thanks Michael12 for posting that, which - as a DSC claimant - I will not receive.

I am moreover informed by the Liquidator that this letter "went out yesterday to direct claimants, however, for some people we don’t have a mailing address so we have to advise them by email, which is why they get the message more quickly". So no panic for those direct claimants who have not yet received it.

I am also informed that "the website will be updated, however that will take a few days".

Regarding the interpretation, I think you may not have quite understood. The statutory interest is based on the calculation of interest of 4% pa on outstanding amounts from Oct 2008 onwards, but only a small part of that can be paid (depending on the limited amount remaining in the pot). It will be paid as a one-off amount corresponding to (apparently) at least 1.5 p/£ of your claim. This is pretty much what we were expecting based on cash in hand. In addition, those whose original claim was reduced as a result of the 5% cap placed on uncapitalised interest as of 9 Dec 2008 will receive the balance due ('deferred interest') in full. I hope that helps make things clearer.


many thanks for the

  • michael12
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Sat, 08/02/2020 - 19:31

many thanks for the clarification


Aged Lottery Winner Syndrome?

  • VikingRaider
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sun, 29/12/2019 - 01:24

As one of the younger depositors, I do hope I will not be informed forty years hence that the legal issues have been concluded at last and that I am the last surviving beneficiary! One really does not wish to join the stereotypical nonagenarian lottery winner who spends his or her declining years asking if their belated good fortune is some form of divine practical joke.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year one and all.


Re ongoing costs

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 29/11/2019 - 16:58

In response to this 'shout' by IceCrusher "Anyone explain why the Cash Balance is decreasing due to liquidation fees that have already been paid in advance?":

I understand that PwC are no longer charging for their services as a result of a cap imposed by the CoI to conclude the liquidation, though I'm not sure whether or not they have all been paid 'in advance'. The decreasing cash balance is essentially due to legal costs of the ongoing battle over the frozen accounts. The alternative would have been to accept the (late-filed) compensation claim (with the Deemster's permission) in full, thus decreasing the cash balance by that amount. It is hoped that the ongoing action will allow at least some of it to be retained for distribution, which will hopefully more than cover the legal costs incurred. But is is indeed very frustrating.

I hope that helps a liitle. It would be helpful if questions seeking an answer were placed in a forum post, keeping the shout box for shouts or information not requiring an answer.

anrigaut


Final Distribution

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Fri, 20/12/2019 - 12:30

Best Wishes to all for a 'Calm and Settled New Year.'
I know our liquidator can't, or won't, say anything unless absolutely obliged to by law. All the same, I was wondering whether our COI might have some information they could share with us to help shed a bit of light on things.
Some people are privy to information appertaining to our plight. Others, including us, aren't.
Has there been any movement, of any sort, lately? Is everything as it was? Has anything changed at all? Are we getting closer to closing the book?
Surely it's not too much to receive a few words, at this stage, on a matter of 11 years duration. I cannot believe this is going to compromise anybody, or anything.
Thank you, in kind anticipation.
Peter and Louise


Re Final Distribution

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 20/12/2019 - 12:59

In response to an email from me, I received the following from the Liquidator in mid-November:

"The freezing/confiscation orders relate to a criminal matter and are therefore heard in the Court of General Gaol Delivery. They were originally dealt with ex parte so we were unaware of them until after the event. The delay is not the fault of the Isle of Man courts. Negotiations are underway - I hope you appreciate I can’t say much about them, however, I am hopeful that we will reach a sensible conclusion which will take account of the cost and delay caused to creditors."

I have since heard indirectly that good progress has been made and that an agreement is expected very soon. The Liquidator understands - and indeed shares - our frustration, but for legal reasons he is unable to make any announcement until the criminal case is finally settled.

While it doesn't answer all your questions, I hope this helps a little and that the New Year will bring good tidings.

Best wishes to all for Christmas & the coming year,
anrigaut


Thank you Angela. Yes,

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Fri, 20/12/2019 - 15:00

Thank you Angela. Yes, indeed, it does help and we very much appreciate you sharing that information. Thank you. We hope the criminal case concludes soon with proper justice dispensed.
I don't know what a 'sensible conclusion' could mean. I don't understand what 'negotiations' could possible mean either when criminals are involved. The only 'proper conclusion' to my mind is that depositors get all their money back, with interest, and that criminals just their 'just deserves.'
But then, I don't understand anything about anything that actually happened. The whole picture I never saw, I was always completely out of the frame.
When all this eventually does come to an end, I wonder how many deviants (and they well know who they are) are going to thank their lucky stars they didn't go down. But that's what they always do, they get away with it.
Thank you again. And my heartfelt sorrow for all of our fellow depositors who had to be put through all this at no fault of their own.


@ Peter & Louise,Just to

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Fri, 20/12/2019 - 15:50

@ Peter & Louise,

Just to clarify a liitle: the negotiation is clearly not with the criminals, but with the law enforcement authorities over the amount they are claiming from their account with KSFIOM. Presumably, the amount they agree will have to be approved by the IOM Court.


Quarterly update 14 Oct 2019

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 14/10/2019 - 18:48

Just posted on bank website: http://kaupthingsingers.co.im/2019/10/14/website-cash-postion-and-final-...

Latest from Liquidator re final distribution:

"As previously reported there are freezing orders in respect of some former KSFIOM customer accounts and there is a legal dispute as to whether these accounts should be confiscated or distributed to unsecured creditors. Therefore I cannot quantify the final amount available for distribution to unsecured creditors until this is resolved. The matter is in Court and I will update creditors as soon as the position is clarified."


court hearing

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 11/10/2019 - 09:28

I have just heard that at the hearing of 7 Oct the case was AGAIN adjourned - to next week.
Further words fail me!


Court hearing

  • Downbutnotout
  • 11/11/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sat, 12/10/2019 - 16:09

Hi anrigaut

Where did you find out from? When I look on the IoM Court's website it never lists the KSF hearings! Well, I can't see them anyway!


Re Court hearing

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Sat, 12/10/2019 - 18:23

Indeed, I too checked regularly and it appears that this particular case was never listed on the Court website, in contrast to all previous & unrelated KSF cases.

As to how I found out the latest news, I can only say "from a reliable source". I did hesitate to make it public here, but have no doubt it is correct. Sorry I can't say more.

anrigaut


Update - 16 September hearing

  • Knife Edge
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 23/09/2019 - 12:04

I am afraid that the outcome of the hearing on this issue (the freezing orders hindering the making of the final distribution) was an(other) adjournment, this time until 7 October.

I can't divulge more on the reasons for this at this stage, but I am hopeful that there will be an order made at that hearing in October that will unblock the current issue (although - to be clear - please note that reaching the final distribution will necessarily be a process involving some further steps after that hearing).

It is of course frustrating for all of us; the CoI has asked the SL to seek to recover costs associated with this from the other side - which is scant consolation, I know, but I mention it in case anyone was wondering.

Knife Edge


Final distribution via DCS, when?

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 11/09/2019 - 16:44

Hi Anrigaut - is there any more or less reliable info on when they might be sending out cheques?


@ ng

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Wed, 11/09/2019 - 19:08

Hi ng,

No. But obviously they cannot do anything until the Liquidator announces the amount & date of the final distribution, which in turn depends on the resolution of the ongoing proceedings in the IOM Court re the freezing orders. My understanding is that a hearing is expected in mid-September. Once the judgement is announced, I guess the Liquidator may need a week ot two to finalise the payment details.

Once paid out by him, the DCS (who will receive a lump sum to cover all its claims) will no doubt need some time to sort out & check the amount due to each of its claimants. In the past, this checking has usually taken around 2 weeks. I suspect it may take a bit longer this time with so many more claimants concerned, but am only guessing. We will also have to wait for cheques to arrive by post - not obvious in some parts of the world (even France & Spain)!

Best regards,
anrigaut


Just had this notification by email

  • cottesmore
  • 21/10/08 16/07/12
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 10/09/2019 - 17:45

John Glen Minister of State (Treasury) (City), The Economic Secretary to the Treasury
I am informing the House of the sale of the remainder of a claim against Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander Limited (in administration) (“KSF”) acquired by the government during the 2007-2008 financial crisis. The government’s claim was held by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme (“FSCS”) which compensated KSF depositors at the time of the financial crisis. This sale to Tavira Securities Limited generates proceeds of £17.8 million for the Exchequer.

Rationale

The government acquired its claim in KSF to preserve financial stability. The administration of KSF has now been running for over nine years and there is comparatively little value remaining in the residual assets. The Exchequer has received £421 million of dividends prior to this sale. In addition, FSCS has repaid to the Exchequer £2.6 billion (plus interest of £146 million) which it borrowed at the time of the financial crisis to enable it to pay compensation for covered deposits in KSF.

Continuing to hold the claim until the administration of KSF concluded was considered, but this option was discounted as the analysis suggested a sale could achieve value for money and would free up FSCS and HM Treasury capacity previously used to manage the claim to pursue other work.

FSCS discussed the sale with a number of potential counterparties, having previously examined the market for selling claims. The counterparty selected offered the highest price.

The proceeds from this sale will reduce Public Sector Net Debt. This marks the conclusion of the government’s and FSCS’s involvement in KSF.

Format and Timing

The government and FSCS concluded that this sale achieves value for money for the taxpayer having (i) conducted an analysis of whether market conditions were conducive for the sale of this asset; and (ii) conducted an assessment of the fair market value for the asset. The sale made use of a third party broker experienced in selling claims against insolvent companies, which was done to create competitive tension among potential ultimate buyers of the asset.

Fiscal Impacts

I can confirm that the sale proceeds of £17.8 million are within the hold valuation range. In 2019-20 the sale reduces Public Sector Net Debt (PSND) by £17.8 million and Public Sector Net Liabilities (PSNL) and Public Sector Net Financial Liabilities (PSNFL) by £2.3 million.

The impacts on the fiscal aggregates, in line with fiscal forecasting convention, are not discounted to present value. The net impacts of the sale on a selection of fiscal metrics are summarised as follows:

Metric
Impact
Sale proceeds
£17.8 million
Hold valuation

Net present value of the assets if held to maturity using Green Book assumptions
£9.9 million - £24.1 million
Public Sector Net Borrowing
No impact
Public Sector Net Debt
Improved by £17.8 million in 2019-20
Public Sector Net Liabilities
Improved by £2.3 million in 2019-20
Public Sector Net Financial Liabilities
Improved by £2.3 million in 2019-20
I will update the House of any further changes to the FSCS as necessary.


FINAL DISTRIBUTION

  • mikepapa
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 10/09/2019 - 14:42

Dear Anrigaut,
I'm an old guy and a little confused with regards to final distribution. I took advantage of EPS2 and have had 100% of my original claim repaid direct to my Bank account by the Liquidator. Am I to understand that final dividend will not be paid direct to my account in a similar manner? I have not changed address or account details so do I have to fill in the form you mention above. I am also very surprised to see that they intend to send final distribution by post/cheque - why not direct transfer to my account as this would be much easier/cheaper. I would be most obliged for your advice and/or assistance in this matter.
Kind regards,
Mikepapa


@ mikepapa

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 10/09/2019 - 20:20

Dear mikepapa,

Your understanding is correct.

As I noted above, all depositors who claimed EPS1 or EPS2 will receive the final distribution from the DCS, even if -like you - they subsequently claimed directly in the liquidation and received dividends from the Liquidator. To receive this you will need to complete & return, with proof of address, the form to be found on the DCS website: https://www.dcs.im/

The DCS has decided that - in view of the very large number of (<£50k) depositors whose original claims were fully paid out at the start of the liquidation and with whom they have had no further contact - it will be more cost-effective for them to pay this by cheque. This applies also to those partially protected depositors (like myself) who have to date received dividends from the DCS by bank transfer. I find it hard to credit and queried the decision when it was first announced, but no way to shift them. Sorry - but that's the way it is!

Best regards from this old lady (!),
anrigaut


Thanks to Anrigaut

  • mikepapa
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 11/09/2019 - 16:14

Dear Anrigaut,
Thank you so much for your speedy reply. It seems to me that IOM/DCS are still up to their usual tricks! I will endeavour to fill out the form to the best of my ability - can I return it by email or do I have to send it by snail mail/post? If/as/when a final the distribution is made, since they insist in sending a cheque by post.... do you think there any way I can request recorded or courier delivery [at my cost] as I live in Africa, with a PO Box address, which is often unreliable?
Alternatively, do you think there is any way one could get them to transfer funds to a UK Bank in the normal manner?
Kind regards from one OAP to another!!
Mikepapa


@ mikepapa

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 11/09/2019 - 18:51

Hi again,

The answer to your first question, as stated on the DCS site, is:

" Completed scanned forms are only acceptable on email if your address and other details have not changed.
If your address and or other details have changed, you will need to send original signed and relevant certified copies to the postal address provided. "

This information was added to their update at my request soon after the update first appeared.

As you never claimed in DCS, you may be unknown to them (no details will be supplied to them by the Liquidator). So, although you can scan & send the form by email, you may still have to send the requested documentary proof of your address (see page 2 of the form), even it has not changed since you claimed EPS. But I'm not 100% sure of this, so suggest you email the DCS directly to check. If they say they do require these documents from you, I suggest you nevertheless send the form also by email with a note to the effect that the documents are in the post. They will then at least be aware of you and should email you if they do not receive the required additional documents.

You can also raise with them your problem with receiving post in Africa. But - on the basis of my earlier contacts with them - I am not optimistic they will agree to make an exception (I received bank transfers from them up to & including the last dividend in Nov 2014 and only needed to send the form, but they still insist I can now only be paid by cheque).

anrigaut


FINAL DISTRIBUTION

  • mikepapa
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 13/09/2019 - 07:34

Dear Anrigaut,
Once again many thanks for your rapid response.
Dear me, it seems IOM DCS/EPS are doing everything they can to frustrate and/or make it as difficult as possible to make the final distribution payment. I really cannot understand why the Liquidator should not just pass Beneficiary Name and Account details for those who have had no changes in address or details. I shall follow your kind advice, but like you I'm not optimistic of a problem free outcome!
Kind regards,
Mikepapa


mikepapa, Indeed. I did my

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 13/09/2019 - 08:21

mikepapa,

Indeed. I did my best to persuade them otherwise, but to no avail.
While the Liquidator has your contact details, he will have none for the vast majority who claimed only through EPS &/or DCS. Moreover, the DCS are even refusing to do bank transfers for those (like me) who have to date received all top-up dividends from them by bank transfer and whose bank details are unchanged. So even if the Liquidator passed on your bank details, the DCS would not - as it stands - agree to use them!

Good luck,
anrigaut


Freezing orders: Update 12 Aug

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 12/08/2019 - 18:44

As noted in the shout box, the 6 monthly update if now online: http://www.kaupthingsingers.co.im/2019/august/12august2019/

It does contain (in para 3.4) a little clarification on the current situation re the freezing orders:

"In my last report I mentioned that there are freezing orders in respect of former KSFIOM customer accounts. The Isle of Man Attorney General is claiming that the money held in these accounts should be confiscated. I am advised that the orders are invalid and, even if they were valid, the accounts cannot be confiscated as no proof of debt was received prior to the cut off date. Therefore I believe the money should be available for distributing to unsecured creditors, which means the final amount available for distribution cannot be determined until this is resolved. The total amount involved is significant to the amount available for distribution."

My further understanding is that the matter is now in the hands of the IOM court. Let us hope the Liquidator's arguments will be sustained.


Update 18 July

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 18/07/2019 - 09:26

At long last the Liquidator has seen fit to provide us, as part of the latest update, with more information on the state of play in this sorry saga:

"It is intended that one further dividend will be paid to creditors in respect of each class of interest. As previously reported there are freezing orders in respect of some former KSFIOM customer accounts. The Isle of Man Attorney General is claiming that the money which was held in these accounts should be confiscated. I believe that is incorrect and that, as I have received no proof of debt in relation to these accounts, the money should be available for distribution to unsecured creditors. Therefore I cannot quantify the final amount available for distribution to unsecured creditors until this is resolved. The total amount involved is significant to the amount available for distribution. The matter is in Court and I will update creditors as soon as the position is clarified."
http://www.kaupthingsingers.co.im/2019/july/18july2019/

Sooner would have been better! But at least he appears to be fighting our corner by attempting to prevent the implementation of a confiscation order or orders which he believes to be invalid. Maybe had he known from the start how long this would drag on he might have agreed to make an interim payment. But he always said that he wanted to avoid that because of the extra administrative costs involved in making a very large number of - often very small - payments; remember that interest is due to all depositors, including the vast majority who were fully covered by the Compensation Scheme but are nevertheless due interest.

Hopefully, with the matter now firmly in the hands of the Court, it will finally be settled soon - one way or the other. I understand a hearing is set for next month.
I live in hope!


Update

  • VikingRaider
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Fri, 27/09/2019 - 19:06

The lugubrious process reminds me of my earliest memories of watching cricket on television and wondering if I should rouse my grandfather when he dozed off. Occasionally, he would wake with a start and ask if he had missed anything important. I would urge him to resume his slumbers as Geoffrey Boycott was still proving what was needed to bore for Yorkshire and England.


Bob Hope I would say

  • softlad66
  • 10/10/08 27/04/11
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Fri, 09/08/2019 - 21:21

nm


Latest Update

  • Blades
  • 19/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 18/07/2019 - 20:37

Thank you very much for this latest update. Much appreciated as always.


Who gets the money?

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 18/07/2019 - 18:57

Let us say that one of us Chat contributors had an account with KSFIOM and we never - in all these years since the bank's collapse - bothered to submit our proof of debt. Even after the final warning to claim now or forever be denied, we still failed to make a claim. Days after this final warning, from out of nowhere, springs a foreign enforcement agency claiming that we had dodgy money in that bank and that they have 'frozen' it to prevent us from accessing any proceeds from it. Given that we never laid claim to the account, how does the agency prove that it was ours in the first place? We have not sought benefit from it, so depositing it in the bank would seem quite pointless. Or did we not claim it because we knew it was dodgy 10 years ago and that a foreign agency would catch up with us a few days after the final request to claim the debt was issued? One cannot claim proof of debt after the final proving date, so how does a foreign enforcement agency place a freezing order on account(s) that cannot be proven to belong to a former depositor? Can enforcement agencies prove ownership of an account on behalf of an alleged miscreant? If they can do these things then presumably they can claim the full 100% return of the deposit from the SL for handing back to the rightful owner(s) from whom it was purloined by the miscreant many years ago.

The crux of the matter would appear to be whether the miscreant failed to stake his/her claim to avoid being identified as the holder of misbegotten gains and if the foreign enforcement agency can clearly identify that the miscreant was indeed a former depositor with KSFIOM and that the account was funded with illegally gained monies. Given that freezing orders are only allowed after very strong evidence has been given supporting their use, and that the penalties for improper application are very stiff, it would seem likely that the enforcement agencies would not have pursued this course of action lightly. I believe the law was changed to allow foreign enforcement agencies to apply for freezing orders in November 2018 so perhaps this was the reason for the 'shotgun' approach.

As usual, these are just my own conjectures and nothing written here has any basis in fact, but merely suggests a possible explanation in light of the weak and tardy offerings of the SL.


Hope Deferred (yet again!)

  • D RAM
  • 13/10/08 01/08/14
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Thu, 18/07/2019 - 15:22

True to form the Isle of Man government continues to sh** on us. Incidentally where does the money go if it;s "confiscated" ?


Confiscated monies

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 18/07/2019 - 15:37

Any money confiscated goes to the law enforcement agency which issued the freezing order (this/these are known to be outside the IOM).


Freezing orders - 'progressing'

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 07/05/2019 - 18:04

In response to my request for any further information on this, I have today received the following reply from the Liquidator:

"The matter is progressing, however, I cannot provide any more information at this stage. I appreciate that creditors understandably want more information, however, I am concerned about potentially endangering the process. I will make an announcement as soon as I am able.
"

That's as much as I can do for now, so we can only crosss our fingers & hope for the best.

anrigaut


Thank you for relaying that

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Wed, 08/05/2019 - 04:45

Thank you for relaying that anrigaut. .


Delay in Final Distribution

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Tue, 30/04/2019 - 17:15

Well, yes, details such as these help to give a somewhat clearer picture as to what's going on. Thank you to you too. Still have many questions, relevant or otherwise. I hope the fugative is located, captured, or whatever it is that they are going to do with him (or her) and soon (I won't say 'and locked up and the key thrown away') The wider circle of depositors certainly deserve a bit more information from SL than what they have been are getting. It is minimum what he has told us.


Delay in Final Distribution

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Tue, 23/04/2019 - 17:44

Would it be possible to get some concrete information as to what is going on? What are these 'freezing orders' all about? On what grounds? Can our Committee of Inspection give us a clue perhaps? Who are the entities involved? In what way have they been able to succeed in getting the 'freezing orders' imposed? What are their contentions? What is their case? What is it that PWC have to do to be able to resolve the matter? Is it possible the Isle of Man government itself might be involved in the hold up. Are they making a claim? Any information would be appreciated. We have had our patience well tried and tested over many years. Not asking for too much for a bit of information. I have written twice to IOM for information. Their reply is that information will be given when they have it. Great. And so it goes on. Best Wishes to all still hanging on. Peter and Louise


Freezing Orders & delay in final distribution

  • Knife Edge
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 30/04/2019 - 11:25

Hi

In brief, a law enforcement agency abroad needs to physically serve an order on someone who has gone AWOL. The SL is doing what he can and KSFIOM's lawyers are instructed to assist in any way they can. There is no suggestion the IOMG are involved in any way and identities are protected as far as I know.

That's the last I heard - I will be chasing up and post back here when I know more. I share the frustration at this last (!) twist in the road and have shared all of our frustration with the SL.

All the best
K E