Ernst & Young Statement on KSF UK

  • Ally
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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Posted: Fri, 21/11/2008 - 19:26

Statement of Administrators Proposals

As filed at Companies House on 19th November 2008

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e&y ksfuk statement

  • manx-person
  • 17/10/08 31/05/09
  • not a depositor
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  • Sat, 22/11/2008 - 21:09

What isn;t shown is the quality of the assets, or details of who the counterparties are.
Unless you know that you cant draw much from the big exposure figures.

How much is owed to Kapthing hf for example? Unless details of the counterparties are disclosed, then it is difficult to weight the assets and estimate what the recoveries would be.

This isnt meant to sound negative, just realistic IMO.


e&y ksfuk statement

  • manx-person
  • 17/10/08 31/05/09
  • not a depositor
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  • Sat, 22/11/2008 - 21:09

What isn;t shown is the quality of the assets, or details of who the counterparties are.
Unless you know that you cant draw much from the big exposure figures.

How much is owed to Kapthing hf for example? Unless details of the counterparties are disclosed, then it is difficult to weight the assets and estimate what the recoveries would be.

This isnt meant to sound negative, just realistic IMO.


Questions for E&Y 1st Dec?

  • Alastair
  • 10/10/08 30/09/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sat, 22/11/2008 - 21:21

How much is owed to or by Kaupthing hf by Kaupthing UK would be a reasonable question for the creditors meeting on 1st Dec. Are there any other questions we would like asked. We can then either ask PWC to ask them as our representative or find another creditor, however small, to attend and ask. Given the level of cooperation from PWC to date the second route might be more likely.

Any questions we'd like to put to E&Y on 1st Dec?


Questions for E&Y 1st Dec?

  • manksman
  • 01/11/08 31/05/09
  • not prepared to answer
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  • Sat, 22/11/2008 - 21:31

I think this is an excellent idea, does anyone know, or know of someone who is a creditor of KSF UK and would be able to do this?
I don't see the harm in the position re Kaupthing hf being published.


e&Y 1 dec questions

  • manx-person
  • 17/10/08 31/05/09
  • not a depositor
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  • Sat, 22/11/2008 - 22:28

Its a tricky one; If they were to disclose the details of counterparty debtors and creditors then that would potentially involve giving details of people they owe money to and those that are owed money and would disclose personal financial details.

They mention that they will be applying for a court dispensation not to disclose the creditors' name and addresses.

We would expect that KSF kf is a debtor so wouldnt be excluded on that basis but they might have also be a creditor and we cudnt see the true nett exposure if e and y get the order they seek


Net Kaupthing kf Exposure

  • Alastair
  • 10/10/08 30/09/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sat, 22/11/2008 - 23:13

I fail to see on what grounds they can claim to supress from their creditors their exposure to their parent company. That would be a story in itself.

If we can find a small Kaupthing UK creditor then we probably can arrange one of our London team to go as their proxy and ask the questions we want asked. Seems to me there are 2 tasks one find a creditor and second work out our questions - some of which we'd probably rather not do in open forum.


Net exposure

  • manx-person
  • 17/10/08 31/05/09
  • not a depositor
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  • Sun, 23/11/2008 - 01:50

well they've suppressed it so far....
If it weakens their position in negotiating the sale of business assets then will it be a good thing?
If someone who was considering buying a business asset of KSF UK knew that there was a very large exposure to the parent they would know that the sale was more of a distressed sale than if the exposure was smaller.
They have alluded to this issue elsewhere in the report.


E&Y Meeting

  • Alastair
  • 10/10/08 30/09/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 23/11/2008 - 10:47

They've suppressed everything until the released of these documents, but there has been a public forum to ask this question until now. Manx-Person I assume you think buyers don't do due diligence.


e&Y Meeting

  • manx-person
  • 17/10/08 31/05/09
  • not a depositor
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  • Sun, 23/11/2008 - 11:15

I assume that you mean there hasn't been a public forum to ask these questions until now and that your original post is a mistype.

Yes of course buyers do due diligence.

If, say, you were acquiring part of the assets of KSF UK then the more distressed the seller is (evidenced perhaps by the information you seek to be disclosed), the lower price you would try to offer, even though this wasn't relevant to the objective value of the assets.

E&Y will probably have been using third parties to close open positions to obtain best value for the same reason.

I was engaged by a company that, as its business purchased distressed assets. Their objective wasn't to give a fair return to the shareholders of the troubled company trust me.

Why the sarcasm?


Manx Person - Non-depositor

  • Alastair
  • 10/10/08 30/09/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 23/11/2008 - 18:29

my reply would be to your email address but since that would give you my email address and you are one of the last people I would choose to share that with I'll leave you with the last word.