Disgraceful late notification from Liquidators regarding Parent Guarantee

  • hopeful
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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Posted: Tue, 22/12/2009 - 17:49

I have this afternoon received an email from the DST advising depositors to lodge an individual claim under the parent guarantee with Kaupthing Bank hf in Iceland immediately. This follows a pathetic late posting by the Liquidators advising that claims must be received by Kaupthing Bank hf in Iceland by 30th December 2009 (only 8 days away including the Christmas break).

According to DST's advice it appears that our Liquidators will not be lodging a claim under the parent guarantee on the behalf of all depositors. If the Liquidators were aware that they would not be lodging such a claim it begs the question why did they wait until now to advise on this very important matter. The parent guarantee has been discussed many times since our banks collapse in October 2008, and in view of the fact that we the depositors are paying a considerable amount in fees to the Liquidators, I feel that they are simply going through the motions and treating us all as pawns in the game - absolutely disgraceful.

I have sent my claim off in the post this evening and trust it gets to Iceland in time.

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Response from Royal Skandia on PG

  • cypheath
  • 01/11/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 24/12/2009 - 09:30

Response yesterday fro RSK regarding my query on Parental Guarantee

Dear Ms XXXXX

Thank you for your e-mail.

I can confirm that Royal Skandia is currently taking legal advice on this issue and will advise in due course.

Regards,

Michèle Pringle

Customer Helpdesk
Royal Skandia Life Assurance Limited
* Email: RSKFMCustomerHelpdesk(?)royalskandia [dot] com
( Tel: +44 (0)1624 655465 (direct)
Web: www.royalskandia.com

Plea for Help - Parental Gurantee

  • tonycBrisbaneOz
  • 12/10/08 31/05/13
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 24/12/2009 - 05:00

Hi,

I'm in Australia and there's no way that If I post my claim it'll get there by Wednesday, even by courier. Could I email my stuff to someone in the UK who could send it by courier from there for me. If you let me know the costs and bank details I'll arrange a payment to a UK bank to cover the costs.

Thanks in advance.

TonyC

PS
I posted anyway. It might get there in time if I'm lucky

Also, I basically used sabi's method to calculate the interest due to me.

Principal * 6.85% = 1 years worth of interest.

195/440 * 1 year of interest for the part to 22nd April, and 245/440 * 1 year of interest for the interest from 22nd April. I also claimed the principle outstanding plus interest and put "6.85% p.a. on all monies outstanding." in the penal interest box.

I also put

"I am also claiming interest on the on principal outstanding of £xxxxxx from the date of this claim at 6.85% p.a (The rate being paid when the bank collapsed). I am a depositor with Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander and I expect the Parental Guarantee, given to me when my account was taken over from the Derbyshire Building Society, to be honoured."

I have no idea if this is correct but hope it helps someone.


Tony email it to me asap

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 24/12/2009 - 06:40

Tony email it to me asap hotstevedata(?)hotmail [dot] com, I''primt it and send it, can you put a digital signature on it?


@tonycbrisbane + @expat

  • glen07
  • 21/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 24/12/2009 - 13:02

Glad that expat was able to help you and others. Was going to get relative to help you out bu couriering the claim form but better that fellow depositor could enable others to send important documentation. Thanks expat - you're a real trooper. Good luck tonycbrisbane and happy Christmas to you. Hope your Christmas day will be fine. We have rain - typical after days of raging temperatures and sun!


Expat - mail on its way

  • tonycBrisbaneOz
  • 12/10/08 31/05/13
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  • Thu, 24/12/2009 - 06:57

Thanks and all the best to you and your family


Recieved, will post as soon

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 24/12/2009 - 07:01

Recieved, will post as soon as they are open.
Merry xmas to you and your family and lets hope for a happier New Year.


@tonycBrisbaneOz

  • glen07
  • 21/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 24/12/2009 - 05:25

Hi - in the same boat as you. Posted mine yesterday but only claimed 5% interest but whatever. Sent it Express Post International. Gamble at this time of the year it will get there in time. I could possibly find someone, in UK, to courier it on but won't be until after Christmas. The only problem is that it has to be a hard copy and an emailed copy, with an emailed signature, won't be acceptable. Wish I could help more. That's why I'm so furious with the liquidators. I know it's goodwill to All mankind at this time of year but they're stretching it!!!

Do you know any pilots? They will still be flying to Europe. I know SAS fly from Brisbane to Copenhagen. You can always call SAS and ask where the crew stay in town( they may not divulge this information) and maybe wander down to their hotel, show them the paperwork and see if they will find it acceptable to take with them and post in Denmark to Iceland. Same applies to British Airways, who can post from UK. Only an idea.

Good luck.

Rgds and Happy Christmas to you.


Glen07 The idea was to scan

  • tonycBrisbaneOz
  • 12/10/08 31/05/13
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  • Thu, 24/12/2009 - 05:38

Glen07

The idea was to scan and email the stuff, get the person at the other end to print it out and send via courier.

Regards, TonyC


Please help

  • Devastated
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 23/12/2009 - 17:18

Can anyone advise how to calculate the interest. Is there a compound interest table to use? And what is meant by penal interests and costs. I really don't want to sound thick but am finding the whole thing really stressful as my husband died a few months ago and I'm trying to deal with all this alone.


For those of you that emailed

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 24/12/2009 - 11:42

For those of you that emailed me your claims forms I have now sent them all by Special Air (that's the one that has the most chance of getting there before the due date), the last pick up occured about twenty minutes ago, so sorry that's the last ones I can do.

Merry Xmas to you all

Expat


Check your email. I ve just

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Wed, 23/12/2009 - 22:16

Check your email. I ve just sent you how to calculate it. If you need any other help get back to me.


@devastated - re please help

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Wed, 23/12/2009 - 20:09

I am no accountant, so just did it as seemed best to me. It doesn't really matter if its wrong - you just have to put something and stake your claim.

However, to help another depositor I have just tried to write down exactly how I worked mine out. I don't want to post it here, but will willingly send by email to anyone who requests via my contact.

As some of you may have noticed, I tend to make things sound more complicated than they are - it's actually quite hard to explain precisely! Anway, for what it's worth, the offer stands.


Don't worry-the important thing is to get a claim in-see notes

  • sami
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Wed, 23/12/2009 - 18:30

I read the thirteen-page notes this morning and noted how it says that under Icelandic law, creditors can submit their claim in any form, not having to use the pre-printed form, so quite clearly, simply by sending a letter saying, "you owe me this figure" is sufficient, so long as it is substantiated with details of how they owe you and why they owe it, providing a copy of your bank statements etc.

I entered the details as a priority payment (the first row in the table) and split the interest due from 9-Oct-08 to 22-Apr-09 and then again between 23-Apr-09 and today 23-Dec-09. I worked it out simply by using 6.85% per year, divided by 365, then multiplied by how many days each, so therefore 195 and 245 days. I did not understand the boxes for 'penalty interest' so I didn't use them.

I also wrote in the notes on the second page that I am claiming interest at 6.85% p.a. for each day - my wording is as below:

"I am also claiming interest on the principal of £xxxxxxx GBP from the date of this claim, at 6.85% p.a (£xxxxx GBP per day)."

Furthermore, I added that I regard the return of my deposits held in KS IOM as a priority claim and I pointed out the parental guarantee that I expected, as it was from Derbyshire B.S. Again, my wording is below...

"I am a depositor with Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander Isle of Man and I benefited from a written undertaking that my savings were protected by a parental guarantee from Kaupthing Bank, Iceland, replacing that which I had before the bank was purchased from Derbyshire Building Society."

Hope this helps!


Late notification absolutely disgraceful

  • icdbrazil
  • 10/10/08 30/11/09
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  • Wed, 23/12/2009 - 16:39

I am travelling and do not have access to my KSF IOM account details / history, and hence am simply unable to file a claim by the due date. I´m sure that others will be in a similar position.

In the event that the personal claims are accepted, in my view PWC should be held responsible for any loss of recovery by depositors who were unable to take action due to their extremely late advice.

I note that DST are taking this up with PWC & hope that they will make this point. I will email PWC myself also & would encourage everybody else to also (if you have your data available, complete the form & post it, suggest chances of it arriving by 30/12 not very good at this time of year).

Again, complete incompetence and the normal F... the depositors attitude. It stinks.


Claim Notification Fiasco

  • Blades
  • 19/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 27/12/2009 - 13:33

As we are not at home over Christmas there is no way my wife and I can get the information required to Iceland in time. This is an appaling state of affairs and yet again we have been "left out in the cold". Hopefully our representatives can make this point and some sort of allowance can be made for those of us in this position.

Our only hope is that we (and everyone else) are included in the general claim by PWC and that the authorities accept both the individual and group claims (though how they sort this out will not be easy judjing by everything else that has happened). We agree with icdbrazil that PWC should be held accountable for this shoddy treatment of depositors.


Late Notification absolutely disgraceful

  • William.B.Hill.
  • 21/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 24/12/2009 - 16:27

I am in the same boat,travelling to be with friends and family over Christmas and the New Year,hence unable to access my account details until returning Home.
Having only been informed of the claims procedure and time constraints last night, I doubt very much if I could make the deadline,even posting from the UK at this time of year,with no postal services for the next 4 days, even if I had all my documents to hand.
I beleive that given the timing of this announcement, the usual seasonal delays, and distances involved,most of us will be unable to meet the claims deadline.
If it is considered that there is any possible chance of individual claims succeeding, then our legal reps should take the strongest possible action to have the claims deadline extended.


Fax Number

  • piratepete
  • 16/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 23/12/2009 - 08:54

Hi,
Does anyone have the fax number for the office in Iceland? I can only see a postal address which I might struggle to reply to as I'm in Australia.

Cheers,
Pete


@piratepete

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Wed, 23/12/2009 - 10:20

Hi,
Be careful - from reading the information I am not convinced they would accept a faxed claim. But if you (or anyone else) can get a firm answer on this by phone (numbers posted by glen07 and expat), please can you post here - with fax number - to help others?

Thanks - and good luck!


LODGING FORMS IN ICELAND

  • flying pig
  • 16/12/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 23/12/2009 - 13:01

As well as posting the forms can we email them to winding-up(?)kaupthing [dot] com ?

This address has been provided somewhere but I cannot find it again. The other email address seems to be for media enquiries.


@flying pig

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Wed, 23/12/2009 - 14:31

They are very definite that the signed claims (on their forms or not) MUST arrive in Iceland by midnight on 30th Dec. So I see no point in also emailing as applications be email are clearly not acceptable.

That is my reading of the instructions anyway. Good luck!


I just had a re-read as well

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Wed, 23/12/2009 - 16:33

I just had a re-read as well and I suggest faxes are not accpetable either, it has to be hard copy.


LODGING FORMS IN ICELAND

  • flying pig
  • 16/12/08 31/05/09
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  • Wed, 23/12/2009 - 13:01

As well as posting the forms can we email them to winding-up(?)kaupthing [dot] com ?

This address has been provided somewhere but I cannot find it again. The other email address seems to be for media enquiries.


Urgent: can i have some advice on claim form to use and adress

  • Calvine
  • 05/01/09 31/05/09
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  • Wed, 23/12/2009 - 08:42

Dears,
Could you share the form to use to fill in the claim as well as the adress where this should be sent.

thanks a lot,

Calvine


Here is the link to the forms

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Wed, 23/12/2009 - 08:47

http://www.kaupthing.com/Pages/4147
Heres the link which also gives the address.
The Winding-up Committee of Kaupthing Bank hf.
Borgartun 19,
105 Reykjavik,
Iceland
If your courier service requests a contact person and a phone number, please give the following: Saevar Bjarnason, tel. +354 444 6142


Contact info for Kaupthing Bank Winding Up Committee

  • glen07
  • 21/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 23/12/2009 - 10:00

I pulled this off their website. Hope this might help someone. Anyone got a fax number off any of these people?

General information on Kaupthing Bank hf.

All general requests shall be made via the following email: creditorcontact(?)kaupthing [dot] com.
We will make every effort to get back to you as quickly as possible.
Information on the claiming process

It is the Winding-up committee´s policy to handle all inquiries regarding the claiming process via the e-mail: winding-up(?)kaupthing [dot] com. In rare instances inquiries can be made via the telephone: +354 444 8899 / 444 8872 / 444 8873 / 444 8874.
Media relations

All requests and questions from the media shall be directed to the Resolution Committee’s Communications Manager:
Helga Björk Eiríksdóttir
Direct tel.: +354 444 7181
Mobile: +354 856 7181
email: helga [dot] bjork [dot] eiriksdottir(?)kaupthing [dot] com
Disclaimer: This information is for informational purposes only and shall not be made legall


Parental Guarantee

  • clodhopper
  • 18/01/09 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 22/12/2009 - 20:23

Thanks for posting this important information but we are unable to view the claim forms on our old computer. However, it is very unfair that the liquidators are expecting depositors to all be on line and at this time of the year how many will have the time to look for information as important as this being posted.

Yet another example of poor communication.

Thanks to DST for keeping us advised.


If you email me I can fax it if you have fax number

  • glen07
  • 21/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 23/12/2009 - 10:19

Anyone who can not pull off this form, I can fax it to you if you contact me with your number by email.


Hedging their bets - badly

  • Alastair
  • 10/10/08 30/09/09
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  • Tue, 22/12/2009 - 20:04

The JL's are clearly are worried about Kaupthing rejecting their KSFIOM claim and want to cover themselves. By doing this so late in the day I doubt they will be able to avoid liability in the event of the Kaupthing decision being that claims should have been made by individuals creditors.

That said I'll submit a claim tomorrow and hope it can arrive in time.


Whatever the rights and

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Wed, 23/12/2009 - 08:45

Whatever the rights and wrongs here it is simply important that depositors put in their claims asap. What comes of it we'll have to see, I suspect we can all debate this until the cows come home (some of us have been for the last 24 hours!!), but for now lets just alert as many people as we can and get those claims in.

However, as I note others have stated, it is quite probable that these claims will be rejected in favour of the KSFIOM claim, this is a just in case moment! If its any assistance I am using 6.85% as the interest rate, if the claim is accepted I am assumimg a "negotiation" will take place, but I'm not going to be holding my breath!

It took me less than than 20 twenty minutes, so its not that onerous.

Here is the link again:
http://www.kaupthing.com/Pages/4147


@ hopeful - re PG claims

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Tue, 22/12/2009 - 19:07

Hi Hopeful,

I'm sorry if you got the impression that the Liquidators will not be lodging a claim. I hasten to reassure everyone that that is NOT true. A claim has been lodged by the Liquidators, in accordance with the expressed view of the Winding-up Committe. I've re-read the DST post (admittedly written in great haste given the lateness of the PwC posts) and confirmed that it does not say that (and certainly did not intend to imply as such).

The PwC posting of 18 Dec states "The Joint Liquidators have been informed by Counsel for the Winding-up Committee that the Winding-up Committee is of the opinion that only the Joint Liquidators can make a claim under the Parental Guarantee, upon the basis that KSFIOM itself was the recipient of the Parental Guarantee, and not the individual creditors." However, this is only their 'opinion' a priori, and it seems they (the Kaupthing Committee) reserve the right to decide otherwise after claims have been submitted. Which seems to leave things quite vague and our dear Liquidators, despite having taken legal advice in Iceland, were unwilling to give definitive advice. In view of the uncertainty surrounding the issue, a number of depositors had been asking whether they should also claim as individuals - to be on the safe side.

The DST post was therefore intended to alert depositors to this uncertainty and to urge depositors wishing to keep all options open to submit a claim. My personal view is that these claims will be rejected in favour of that by KSFIOM, but - just in case - I have nevertheless sent off my claim by express mail today.

There may be further news on this soon from DST. So watch this space!


parent guarantee

  • hopeful
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 23/12/2009 - 18:51

Hi Anrigaut

Thanks a lot for the clarification - much appreciated. I must have missed the posting confirming that the Liquidators would/had sumitted a claim Like you say due to the uncertainty about the legality its best to cover our options by submitting indvidual claims as well. I therefore feel more comfortable having decided to send my claim yesterday.


Parental Guarantee claims

  • mesufish
  • 21/10/08 01/10/15
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  • Wed, 23/12/2009 - 07:16

Well, this is indeed very late news and especially difficult for those of us who find ourselves busy with work etc at this time of year.
The posts above seem to imply that there is a claim form to be used - where is this available? I, like everyone else I am sure, do not want to be left out in the cold where any possibility of getting back even a little more of what is rightly our own money is concerned.


@mesufish - PG claims

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Wed, 23/12/2009 - 08:29

All the details and link for the form are here:
http://www.ksfiomdag.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=38...

(public access on the other site)

We are furious with PWC for their late and ambiguous response to questions we've been asking since early November.

The possibility that filing individual claims will do any good seems quite remote, but given the past performance of our Liquidators my feeling is better safe than sorry! I managed to cobble a claim together in a couple of hours yesterday and posted by express mail. I used the form for depositors, marked the 'branch' as KSFIOM and entered the capital outstanding and estimated interest (5% pa after 8 Oct) as a priority claim (they can always downgrade it).

I suggest you do the best you can in the little time available - but try to send something to at least get a foot in the door. It has to reach Iceland by midnight on 30 Dec and must be signed.

Good luck!


Put in my claim. Is Superman around?

  • glen07
  • 21/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 23/12/2009 - 10:24

Have put in my claim from half way round the world, at the most important time of the year for a backlog of mail but have sent anyway. Just when I needed Superman around to send it supersonically round to Iceland!!! Maybe give it to Santa. He heads back to the northern pole after his deliveries. Maybe he could drop into Iceland on the way home?!


Help with claim form requested

  • Equus
  • 14/10/08 08/06/09
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 23/12/2009 - 11:21

We only received the email this morning and are in the process of filling out the claim. Can anyone advise us re the following:
We had two savings accounts with KSFIOM both in our joint names. Do we:
a) complete one form for each account or
b) one form for each account holder
Also what goes in under the heading 'ledger'
Thanks


@equus - re PG claims

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
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  • Wed, 23/12/2009 - 14:38

There appear to be no specific instructions re joint accounts. Individuals with more than one account are free to sumbit separate claims or to combine them (see para 11 of the notes). So I would suggest not (a); either (b) or, simpler for you I would think:
(c) one form for both accounts, with both names in the 'name of claimant' box.

Just my personal opinion ....
Good luck!


PG Claims

  • Equus
  • 14/10/08 08/06/09
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  • Thu, 24/12/2009 - 11:11

Thanks for your advice

Best wishes