Directions for the troops? What do you want your footsoldiers to do next?

  • FalconVet
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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Posted: Sat, 25/10/2008 - 09:45

The London-IOM team and website folk are doing an excelent job and are no doubt overwhelmed with things to do.....BUT...

I think those of us scattered around the globe, who are logging in after work and who 'want to do their bit' need some direction in the coming weeks so that our artillary can be concentrated on the right targets. I like many people on the list have been sending out mails and press-releases, but yesterday therei was an interesting comment from a friendly media person saying the message form depositors has got through (they know who we are), but now many journalists (and no doubt the MP assistants) are probably pressing delete on our deluge of copy and paste and bcc mails.

Perhaps there is need for a forum where each day those of us who have a couple of hours spare can be alerted to what needs to be done - press releases mailed out, with comments to send individual mails etc etc (if deemed appropriate). The website is a great resource, but don't forget that the real resource are the hundreds, perhaps thousands of us with a couple of hours spare each day who are willing to turn your whispered instructions into a loud internet shout.

Can the steering team consider this

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Thoughts on a Demonstration

  • Relentless Posse
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 20:41

I live in Western Canada but would take the time off work to come and perhaps join a demonstration group prepared to walk to Parliament.
I would need time and planning to get plane ticket etc but would be happy to spend two days in London just to raise our profile more.


Write Letters above emails

  • Relentless Posse
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 15:29

Again I have to try ad get this point over Folks.

Since I have been working all around the world I have noted one thing.Countries like Canada respond to emails and calls - not letters.
The UK hjas too cultures - the pub and letter writing !Please write letters to people or they will simply start treating e-mails as spam.


Action Plan Detail

  • 491
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 12:16

What to Do Now?

This is just my provisional take on the question. Intended to promote debate.

In General

  1. First take heart – we’ve made some good progress.
  2. Recognize that only a political negotiated solution gets us to 100% - there aint enough money in all Iceland to keep us whole. There are ways to get 30 pence in the pound, but I’m not interested.
  3. Encourage a discourse and process that reminds each political and regulatory player that they have some measure of culpability and liability (probably).
  4. Liaise positively and constructively with IoM, PWC and FSC to ensure that they are asking the right questions and forcing the right issues and reporting to us. These are the only agencies that have a direct obligation to go to bat for us.
  5. Recognize that our routes or access to Iceland, UK government, FSA, UK Treasury, E&Y and Kaupthing UK are all via the agencies in (4) – direct contact probably doesn’t help this - E&Y has no duty to us.
  6. Don’t lay blame or attack anyone, but encourage all parties to see their individual and collective role in this comedy of errors. We will need the goodwill of all to broker the solution we need at the end of the day.
  7. Keep up the media effort but keep it positive and constructive – “We are just cross-fire victims caught in the middle of human error – that’s cool, people make mistakes – we just want people to do the right thing now”

IoM Liaison:

A. We want to know what UK govt has done to advance IoM interests specifically?
B. We want to be assured that the UK has agreed that its deals with Iceland should rank IoM interests pari passu with their own – anything else is a conflict and a failure of fiduciary duty in its foreign affairs obligation.
C. We want to know if IoM has made any direct petitions to Iceland and their nature
D. We want to be assured that IoM and UK have both made clear to IMF that loan packages to Iceland must entail fair settlement of all foreign creditor obligations. We’d like to be informed of the IMF response.
E. We should encourage IoM (Allan Bell in my opinion) to broker a negotiated solution soon. Litigation will be a nightmare, take about 4 years and burn a chunk of our deposits. All three governments have a vested interest in passing the hat to fix this baby.

PWC Liaison

A. We want to understand the status of the E&Y court instructions – are they sealed? Why? What legal steps is he taking to unseal them?
B. We want to understand PWC’s role in filing asset demands with respect to Iceland, KSF UK, E&Y. What’s he done specifically?
C. We need PWC’s report on asset location and character. Where is it and where do we rank as creditors. When can we expect fulsome disclosure from E&Y?

FSC Liaison

A. We need a more complete statement from John Aspden regarding the events leading up to his decision to instruct the transfer of the 550 million. Why? On who’s authority? Why not public disclosure? Why were assets not ring-fenced in the UK? When did this begin?
B. We want the correspondence with Kaupthing hf and FSA on this issue to be made public.
C. If there were concerns about Kaupthing hf, why were there not equal concerns for it’s UK sub?
D. We should not assume error, but ask for disclosure. His decision may have saved our bacon – we just don’t know – we need facts. We should be encouraging Aspden to present at Tynwald.

Forcing public discourse / disclosure on all the difficult questions is the best way to force a negotiated solution. Because I think they’d all rather settle than talk – so encourage talk.

In regard to all of the above, we should appoint key liaison for each party and channel “distilled” correspondence to each though our liaison “officer”. I think the days of mass email are done with the possible exception of media channels. It’s gotta be real irritating if you are John Aspden et al to be hit with 800 emails all saying the same thing.

Blair


well put blair, yes do not

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 16:01

well put blair, yes do not under estimate the progres and do not under estimate the comedy of errors that has taken place here
we've worked hard on the iom gov and got thier public support, th FSC role is crucial.like bblair i want a real statement from Aspen about who did what for wom and when, just how much did they grasp of the consequences of their actions? Did they do the right thing or not?
the nxt week will be about pressing those matters, but please listen to divers team about not flooding the media, or we might lose the support we seem to be gaining in the press.

and please remenber it is a very small tam on the ground here, as of tomorrow back to two of us to be precise! even going nearly 24/7 thre is a limit to how much we can get through in a day


BBLAIR POSTING - WHAT TO DO NOW

  • mikepapa
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 15:53

Blair,

Thanks for your posting on 'What to do Now'.

I agree with, and therefore second your opinion.

May I suggest and request, that you go ahead and draft the appropriate questions for IoM Gov, PWC and FSC that you have raised above.

Assuming most are in agreement, the questions can be send as e-mails and we could ask Expat & IoM team to follow up with delivery of hard copy on Monday.

Cheers.


Moved Discussion

  • 491
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 15:59

Thanks Mike - I've just taken the liberty of moving this to a seperate forum topic "Strategy Debate Now".

Mod occams: Go to new thread here

I'm happy to flesh out the questions and like before can cast out for everyone's input by email. But let's see what feedback we get in "Strategy Debate Now". This is just my gut feel - and I'd like to see what others think before charging off. Cheers. Blair


OK understood ..... I'll move

  • mikepapa
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 16:28

OK understood .....

I'll move my post to the new thread to kick it off.


Secrecy

  • occams razor
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 12:21

"Forcing public discourse / disclosure on all the difficult questions is the best way to force a negotiated solution. Because I think they’d all rather settle than talk – so encourage talk."

I think this is a very good point... There's a lot of secrecy going around the place, and we need to get the media and politicians asking - Why are these secret? What reason is there for keeping thse details away from the public? What is being hidden?


Let them keep secrets.

  • 491
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 12:31

Thanks Occams. At the end of the day I don't think we care if UK, Darling, FSA, FSC want to keep secrets - but it's gonna cost them... 840 million to be precise. We can syndicate this deal - I'm sure of it. Demanding the answers forces the settlement.


Yes... Like you say, they are

  • occams razor
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 13:08

Yes... Like you say, they are welcome to keep their secrets, we just have to make sure that to do so and silence us, the price is giving us our money back. Sounds like a fair deal to me...


hello from the Bunker

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 11:24

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article5010281....
please look at this and somebody please add to media, y'knw I don't understand these things!!!!
You can start blogging away about well he would say that, wouldn't he. i just did!
as to the future, i have been in touch witht he core team and we're looking at a new statement, we need to bash home all and sundry that we are people of integrity (well I am can't speak for you 'orrible lot!), how difficult to set up account on IoM, Euro 2003 Money Laundering Directive etc etc
Next we start to put the pressure on the negotiators in Iceland, lets be clear there is fault on both sides here so its robably a bit like this:
"You must live up to yopur guarantees to British savers"
"And you must acknowledge that your loose words and hasty actions destroyed KFS and the Icelandic economy by causing a bank run"

It'll take 'em time to find a face saving plausably deniable statement!!! Like Darling and his "it was only one part of the telephone conversation"!! Yeah you had the FT boys in fits of laughter here Alistair!!!!!

One little point I am thinkg about is how to use the middle class savers routine, the last time the middle classes protersted onn the streets was the Poll ax, I rememebr the blue rinses of Maidenhaead getting out ther, it brought Thatcher down

Force 9 gale blowing here, it was awesome this morning at The Calf of Sound!!!!! Blew the cobwebs away!!!


Footsoldiers

  • Anonymous
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 10:54

Good Luck Falcon.
I got a bo66ocking several days when I asked similar !!


"What you can do today **/**/2008

  • carlosherbane
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 10:38

I think this is an excellent idea. I work full time but would welcome coming home and going through a list of items of things I can do, people whom I could contact etc... I have tried to do this so far but would feel more secure knowing this was a co-orindated effort. :)

God bless


I want to do more...

  • chipmunk
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 10:49

Sincerely support a list of things for us to do daily including email addresses etc...how do we co ordinate this and get it started...

Also the DARLING TAPES ..have seen nothing much in the press about the transcript recently shown and Darlings famous announcment...Should we not put emphasis on that issue a bit more...we all know what Watergate did......


Good comment

  • FalconVet
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 10:09

Centralising contacts is important - can you put as many e-mail and fax numbers up - for me it is easier to e-mail, but I can also send some faxes each day.
I have posted my contact lists in various forums, let me know if you need them again.


Send send send...

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 09:54

The guys on the ground need MPs, MEPs and the press (paper, radio, TV and the web) to get emails/phone/fax from us. The top of the site has press releases and infomation.

There are lists of contacts, but around the globe the press needs to get emails/phone/fax - and LOTS of them - from us all. The more we can get information out the better position it puts them. It looks like the UK Gov, FSC and Treasury have made an almighty stuff up and we need to get that message out.

I put out upwards of 100 emails a day (cant afford phone, fax) but the ground teams need it from all of us. And constantly, every day.

I'm getting the contacts list in a central easily found place; but just keep the information going out.

Mat


Three more MPs

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
  • a depositor
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 11:45

Nick Herbert
Shadow Justice Minister
nick(?)nickherbert [dot] uk

Philip Hammond
Shadow Secretary to the Treasury
hammondp(?)parliament [dot] uk

Chris Grayling
Shadow work and Pensions
graylingc(?)parliament [dot] uk


Lists

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
  • a depositor
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 11:05

I am another who is square eyed and bleary from sending out so many emails.

Not complaining - I will do it until my eyeball pop out but I dont want to encourage deletion by overdoing it so not sure where to go today.

Re address+contacts

I have put various lists of emails up and helped myself to those others put up but I keep losing them so a forum for addresses and contacts - clearly named for numpties like moi would be great.


A BIG REQUEST FROM THE LONDON TEAM

  • Diver
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 11:22

Hi Guys, thanks very much for doing such great work in getting our message out to the press and media at large. We definitely have their attention and they're listening, printing and broadcasting. We could not have asked for more and, as someone has pointed out, big corportations pay ££££££ for the amount of publicity we've mamaged to generate. Great work!

Now it looks like we need to take a different tack. As you've probably seen we're starting to get comments back from the media indicating that we may be over doing the number of emails to the UK press and TV stations. I don't have much sympathy for them but then we do need to keep them on side.

Our request is this: Please carry on emailing every single MP, politician and committee contact that we have got. These guys need to know that we're here, we're not going away and the sooner they get the Government to play fair the sooner we'll leave them alone. Please also carry on emailing the foreign press...especially those of you who are abroad and have dedicated expat newspapers etc... Let's make sure our plight is heard outside these shores as well.

BUT. PLEASE LEAVE ANY FURTHER EMAILS TO THE UK PRESS & MEDIA TO THE LONDON TEAM. If there is something you think needs to be said then by all means email one of us (best to email me, Teapot or Sleepless) and we'll do our best. We need to start managing our disussions with these guys and we need them to know that the listening works both ways. We have had great coverage this week and if we want that to continue we need to tread carefully.

I realise just how much you all want to help and it really is appreciated. There are times where reigning back our crys for help works just as well as going for an all out assault. If anyone feels they need to talk to me about this then my number is at the bottom of all the latest releases...I will happily talk to all of you and explain this new way forward. Thanks.


Hi Diver yes agree please

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 11:26

Hi Diver yes agree please leave the statements to the team


Diver, suggest you post this

  • occams razor
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 11:46

Diver, suggest you post this as a NEW TOPIC in the Media Involvement forum so everyone looking there can see... You can use this link:

http://www.ksfiomdepositors.org/node/add/forum/12

Also maybe the same in the Actions and Strategy Forum using this link

http://www.ksfiomdepositors.org/node/add/forum/6


good idea

  • Diver
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 11:59

It's done


Middle East Media List and PR campaign in ME region??

  • FalconVet
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 10:15

I passed on a list of Middle East press/media contact list to the ME group coordinator today. If this is useful for you I am happy to forward this excel spreadsheet to you.

Here are my thoughts on any publicity in the Middle East for the record:
1. I do not think media attention will have much effect on the focus of events that is rightly concentrated on London-Iceland-IOM. But perhaps every little helps.
2. Perhaps there are people in the UAE/region who would be grateful to know that there are other people in the same boat as themselves - ie going to the media and putting the depositors action group contact details is useful because there might be a 'support' role. A bit like alcoholics anonymous...
3. It might give the UK depositors negotiating on our behalf a small weapon. If the ME group is able to demonstrate that it can get material in the press in the ME, then the IOM might be concerned about future potential negative IOM pr campaings run by the group. In other words, it might encourage London-IOM to consider that the depositors are not toothless, and that if pushed too hard we may be able to damage their future interests raising deposits/selling investments in the cash-rich Middle East region.
4. Whoever runs a PR campaign in the Middle East should coordinate with the UK team who are currently coordinating the war. This should be coordinated, not independent. The aim of any PR campaign in the Middle East should soley be to provide a weapon to the negotiating team in IOM/UK


Yes, you are bang on...

  • Anonymous
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 11:04

Yes, nice one Falcon. I am with you 100% - that is exactly the sort of thing that needs doing. Your ME group needs a 'Manager' who can then co-ordinate with the 'locals' while providing the interface with the London/Douglas team. Ng (the main site Admin) has mentioned 'electing' a group manager, then letting him know so he can assign the role - however, if 'electing' is too long winded and would take time, just do a quick discussion then let Ng know is to be the site manager.

Not sure 100% at the mo how to technically get the region contact lists going - but its just bytes on a disk, so can be done. Will probably be a dropdown from top menu and working on it now.

But yes Falcon, that is exactly what the teams needs.

Mat


Email...

  • Anonymous
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 11:20

Sorry, Falcon, could you email the list to me at mat(?)alexview [dot] com (forgot to put that in...)

Mat