Depositors memorial site???

  • ItsTheft
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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Posted: Thu, 28/05/2009 - 03:41

Just found this site www.ksfiom.com.

Is it from the dag team? Looks like it is naming and shaming british mps. I contacted them about my mp and his lack of concern and they emailed me back asking me to send full details of emails sent between me and my mp. i also asked not to be named and they assured me that my details would not be revealed but that the emails may be used without much editing except to take my name and any other details out.

[ng: This thread has been frozen as many comments are completely off-topic]

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www.ksfiom.com

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
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  • Thu, 28/05/2009 - 19:04

Not disclosing any privileged info - a matter of public record, ksfiom.com was registered by our friend Mat Walker. Mat was one of the pioneers in the early days of the DAG - I'm very pleased to see he's alive and kicking butt :)


@ng re KSFIOM.COM

  • icdbrazil
  • 10/10/08 30/11/09
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  • Fri, 29/05/2009 - 17:02

NG

Do you have any ideas as to how to get the site more in the public eye?


Promoting other websites

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
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  • Fri, 29/05/2009 - 17:48

Assuming not wanting to pay Google (or anyone else) to advertise the site, basically need to post links to it on as many other sites as possible. i.e. got to relevant forums, post a comment with a link to that site.

We need to build a centralised list of relevant forums I would say. I can provide a feature for that (in the same way we can add "news items" here, add "forum links") .. won't take me too long but can't do it right now until I finish something else. After that we use people power (members here) to go and post to them. Mustn't spam people though, the messages have to be relevant.

Google itself takes notice of how many other sites link to a site when determining search results (there's a lot more to it than that, but basically the more links from other sites, the better.)


So Darling lied???

  • ItsTheft
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 29/05/2009 - 10:39

That/those sites www.ksfiom.com etc has a new page claiming that Darling lied. It points to freedom of information enquiry that does seem to back it up. have we pushed that one yet? is there any way we can get that site publicised?

and who is Mat Walker? where did he go then?


Mat was severely affected by

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 29/05/2009 - 17:51

Mat was severely affected by loss of his KSFIOM funds - it's not my place to tell the story, but in short got stranded in Australia with no money. I've no doubt he would appreciate messages via the contact link he has on www.ksfiom.com


That site is going for their jugular!

  • ItsTheft
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Thu, 28/05/2009 - 16:27

Fantastic, that site is really going for it. I've been searching for other Kaupthing related sites and it seems the site is going under a number of different names. www.ksfiom.com, www.theukgovernment.com, www.iombanking.info and www.kaupthingiom.com are the ones i've found.

I see that the MP count is up to 10 and includes Nick Clegg! It also has Nadia Dorris who was talking about the MP suicide risk. I've sent the site some clippings from the MP replies from this site but send it as many as you can! Maybe it will get in the News!


Lets give them all a try

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
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  • Thu, 28/05/2009 - 18:33

Lets give them all a try.
Meanwhile I have been plowing on with the www.manxforums.com
Its a site with unfriendly abusive posters but I have been informed that it is well read in the IOM. and thata many of the IOM people feel are sorry for our plight.
I feel that by not responding to this abuse and stating our case in a civilized way may have some impact somewhere.

Would anyone else like to put in their two cents worth in its hard yakker!


Bellyup

  • caledonia
  • 14/10/08 30/09/09
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  • Fri, 29/05/2009 - 13:32

HI Bellyup, just to say I am giving Manxforums a go and have also sent stuff off to the "Memorial site" .......


This site was set up by a

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 28/05/2009 - 03:56

This site was set up by a depositor, who like me as itn happens, sees the UK Gov as the major protaganist. It is not a DAG site and I encourage people to see this site. This is what we should have be fighting all along in my view.


The site Mat has created does

  • sleeplessnight
  • 10/10/08 30/06/09
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  • Sat, 30/05/2009 - 00:18

The site Mat has created does highlight the lack of accountability on the part of HMG... however expat, I think most are aware of how you would advocate pointing the finger at HMG while distracting from the grave regulatory failures on the part of IOMG and FSC. There is only one regulator and one government that ultimately can be held responsible for safeguarding our deposits: that regulator chose to change it's handbook and regulations in advance of the collapse to seemingly elude it from liability... what is your comment on that please?


Sleeplessnight, it's a matter of opinion.

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Sat, 30/05/2009 - 06:32

You say that there were grave errors by the FSC and by association I assume you target the IoM Gov. Firstly there was as far as I can see no grave error by the FSC, as the report by Trevor Stevens and Nick Johnson also concludes what took place was normal upstreaming. A process that still continues by the way. If there was a strong case against the FSC why haven't DAGs lawyers pursued it or advised of it?

Secondly have you asked yourself why the FSA wrote letters as they did? Letters that do not directly answer the question, but hint at it only? Have you wondered if perhaps Aspden (not my favourite person as it happens) was to an extent honey trapped. It would seem extraordinary that as the CEO of the FSA, Hector Sants was not aware of the potential action against KSF UK. There is also the little matter of the Trust Fund set up under the direction of the FSA a few days before closure, that deprived KSF UK of about 150 million pounds of liquidity and being a cause of it being put into administration.

Thirdly, has it occured to you that both Icleland and HMG have been deplorable in this, they are the two governments who actually caused this debacle. Is there a case to be answered by Darling about the infamous phone call with Iceland, letters from the Treasury indicate the need for that to re-examined.

I freely admit that the actions of the IoM have been very poor, ill manged and inappropriate as far as depositors are concerned. However, they have no legal requirement to do anything; they have no doubt had it made very clear by HMG that they needed to shut up or face the consequences. In fact there is anectdottal evidence of that, ever wondered why Tony Brown had a 'bad back' after meeting Jack Straw. I am sure that you have responses from various MHKs as well, read them, you can see a between the lines that they have been put in to purdah by HMG. But thats just an opinion and not material fact.

In the end the IoM were never going to supply 100% returns its that simple, this was a bank in receivership for want of a better phrase, better to deal with the reality of that than try to believe that a 100% was return is a moral imperative, it isn't. The IoM do not have and will not get the money it takes, I think you'd be hard pressed to get it trough the Tyndwall for a start and support for us has got less as time goes on on that score. The only 'conspiracy' are the actions of HMG regarding IoM and its use of us as fodder for G20 headlines.

So its the UK and Iceland that need to be looked at seriously, did the UK act legally in stopping our money being returned, is there is a moral/legal case its that Darling returns the money under the Banking laws. As seems to have been done for Whelan and others. The grave regulatory failure is at the FSA (an opinion also held by some UK MPs by the way), the FSC are culpable certainly, but its the FSA that need to be exposed for the game they played, or the mistake they made. If they didn't know that KSF IoM money was involved then they are incompetent and that is another story. So whether or not there is a culture of greed or even corruption on the IoM (probably is, its remarkably like Russia in that respect) it isn't material to our situation. Proving poor judgment at HM Treasury and/or FSA is, that can get a financial return over time. I would hesitate to add that the chances of winning a case against the IoM Gov or individuals is far closer to zero that it is to 100%.

There are other matters, such as the HMG smear campaign about tax dodgers and the availability of bank accounts; the refusal to answer questions in the House of Commons; the whole issue of KSF UK and its dealings. There is even a question mark about how KSF, Iceland and UK, gave loans and share deals to 'customers', but none of it leads to the IoM with any great force.

You are welcome to your views sleeplessnight and others, and I will hold mine, it seems a lot of people agree with me. So may I respectfully request that you keep the insulting emails to yourself!! I won't be going away, I am not a victim, but I do want the correct heads to roll!

Finally I'll quote a phrase from a UK MP a few months ago, as a press release sent out by DAG accused the IoM of everything from lack of respect to corruption, and mistakenly published under my name. "Whats the matter with DAG, don't they know who their friends are?"

Kind regards

Steve Thomas


I am not sure if you have

  • sleeplessnight
  • 10/10/08 30/06/09
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  • Sat, 30/05/2009 - 11:38

I am not sure if you have answered the question I posed to you? You answer one of your own questions in doing so.
I do not think anyone would disagree with you that the FSA are also responsible as you will see in the latest letter for MPs http://www.ksfiomdepositors.org/public-page/letter-send-mps-30-05-09


Expat, smell the coffee.

  • Hampnew
  • 22/01/09 31/05/09
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  • Sat, 30/05/2009 - 06:41

Expat when I met you, you appeared to be a well educated person, you might well be, but your naivety beggars belief. You really believe that these guys on the Isle of Man are competent and play by the rules. They cann't even spell the words integrity and ethics. I just hope that this escapade has provided you with some real life education. It may even give you some “freedom to flourish”. You are likely taking a leaf out of Braddans book and negotiating a private deal with Shimmin and his (very) merry band. My money is on you turning up on these shores again, probably a deal involving the "Spell man". Good luck to you, you never miss a marketing opportunity, unfortunately you are easily influenced by the spin and are presently backing the wrong horse, small man's syndrome. Smell the coffee.


I didn't say that hampnew! I

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Sat, 30/05/2009 - 07:47

I didn't say that hampnew! I said I don't doubt that there is corruption etc, I forgot to mention nepotism as well. If you want to chase them down by all means go ahead, the point is how does it get us our money back. Not playing by the rules is just as prevelent in HMG and Iceland in this instance. If I wanted to be a social crusader I'd have chosen the path, as it is I just want my money, I am not judge and jury, perhaps you are?

And please don't try to imply that I or Bradden are making private deals, it doesn't become you and frankly is libelous. Perhaps you'd like to consider how 70% of depositors will get 100% return and the rest will it seems get close to that, consider that and ask why and how the UK brought the bank down?

You want vendettas go ahead, I want my money and wasting time on the IoM isn't and hasn't got it has it. Wake up, smell the coffee Hampnew, the money is in the UK, vendetta's against the IoM are not going to recover it.


I didn't say that hampnew! I

  • Anonymous
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  • Sat, 30/05/2009 - 13:03

Expat, isn't much of the above missing the important issue? Surely that issue is why most depositors have been separated from most or all of their money since last October and why it has taken almost 8 months and a huge effort and expenditure on the part of DAG and its lawyers to get depositors back into the position they should have been in 8 months ago.

Irrespective or whose acts or mistakes were responsible for the bank's collapse, and it is clear to everyone that several people and governments were responsible, I would say that there can be no doubt that the delays since October were intentionally caused by the interventions of the IoMG (with more than a little help from our liquidator). Why are you trying to distract our attention from this now? Also, is it not now quite apparent that the secret negotiations that you repeatedly assured us IoMG were involved in in the early months amounted to absolutely nothing or at any rate absolutely nothing that assisted depositors?

Could you now say, without any equivocation, that all those assurances and pleas for patience given and made by you and your friend in the IoM were misconceived?


Without equivocation elgee,

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Sat, 30/05/2009 - 13:29

Without equivocation elgee, we did the right thing. Did you? I don't know where you get the triumphal tone from, neither DAG nor any other outside influence had any impact in the end.


Without equivocation elgee,

  • Anonymous
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  • Sat, 30/05/2009 - 13:43

Expat, how could it have been the right thing to do when it permitted an 8-month delay for no good reason and produced no results of any benefit to depositors? I am not even sure that it was a sensible thing to do.

As for DAG having no impact, that really is total nonsense. DAG's efforts created a class 2 and DAG's votes defeated the SoA in class 2. There is no doubt that had it been defeated in class 3 only, by one vote as was the case, the IoM court could have easily been persuaded to sanction the scheme in those circumstances, especially as (of course) the class 3 voter was not a depositor.


@Expat

  • Hampnew
  • 22/01/09 31/05/09
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  • Sat, 30/05/2009 - 08:39

Expat you have a big problem, it appears now you are a jack of all trades, a lawyer now as well! We all had a chance of a far better recovery if you had not fallen into the trap of the bon ami approach by Spellman.
You were targeted because of all the press that you didn't deserve, and you were recognised as maleable, not because of your deposit. You obviously relished the attention and you made the most of it. You fell right into their trap. You were being used to get to the HNW group, the leaked government mails identify this. It is dissapointing that you will still not recognise that this happened. We were potentially looking at 100% until you butted in. My suggestion (only) is that if yourself and Mr Braddan want maximum recovery you both buy into and subscribe to the DAG strategy as it is still the preferred way forward.
As for vendetta's, if they became necessary, we are more than capable of taking care of that type of business ourselves.
Thank you for your valuable advice.


I advocate it too

  • ItsTheft
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Sat, 30/05/2009 - 03:10

there is no point trying bash IOMG into admitting they were wrong if they they would not be able to pay us all back. they were wrong i agree. very wrong. But being in the right does not mean we would get any more money back. someone on this site said a while back that an MP had said they were suprised at the lack of lobbying of the Government or MPs over this. why ARE we not bashing HMG more like that mat walker?


What do you suggest?

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
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  • Sat, 30/05/2009 - 06:59

What do you suggest?

We have written to every MP we can TO NO EFFECT.

Direct action?

Throw ourselves in front of the Queens horse?

( ascot is coming up)

We are meeting brick walls every which way.


Ascot,, is it that time of

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Sat, 30/05/2009 - 08:06

Ascot,, is it that time of year already! Keep writing, slowly it may pay off. Direct Action Yes why not, London would a good place or even Reykchavik. A better PR campaign than has been waged so far as well. We get precious little media exposure because we are not a story. If we presented the pr better, evidence of no tax dodging; disgust at UK gov etc we might get somewhere, as it is The Manx Herald is the best we get and the readership there, with due respect, is about 50!

The fact the HMG uses the same letter, and has done for months, in its responses can be used against them. Where is the media exposure about how over 150 questions have never been answered in the House of Commons? Where is the exposure about how an 80% plus return is looking likely and yet KSF was taken down? Where are the articles in national papers?

Yes I know we hit walls Bellyup, I have a hit it many times, but you don't give up if you want real justice do you?


Re PR

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
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  • Sat, 30/05/2009 - 08:13

I agree

What I would also like to know is

1) why was Bell pottinger employed?
2) did they do anything?

Cab anyone enlightened me?