Company accounts and other non individual accounts

  • richard
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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Posted: Sun, 12/10/2008 - 14:44

Does anybody understand why individual accounts are procted upto GBP50k and company and other non individual accounts are not? I hope that this will change.
I would be intersted to see how many KSF IOM company accounts have been afected.
I would like to thank the person/persons who are responsible for setting up this site. I would also like to ask if users who have company accounts can register this fact to see how many of us there are.

I also have funds in an individual account.

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Company scheme possible alteration

  • EIL
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sat, 18/10/2008 - 03:28

http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/Kaupthing-crisis-MHK-urges-alterations.46...

There are going to be some alterations in the new scheme that only safeguarded individual depositors.
Above is an article about it.


Possible alteration II

  • andy3858
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sun, 19/10/2008 - 09:11

Among others, I emailed the Speaker of the Tynwald and have received the following reply:

I agree entirely that the removal of companies, trust, charities etc
from the old scheme in favour of an enhanced scheme for individuals
only is wrong. I said so in the Tynwald debate, and will say so again
in Tynwald.

I am grateful for your comments, as a number in exactly the same
situation have been in touch.

Best wishes

Steve Rodan


To All KSFIOM depositors: We

  • EIL
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 04:35

To All KSFIOM depositors:

We have all called and spoke to many people at FSC, KSFIOM, Treasury, in the UK, Iceland, and the Liquidator Provisionally (Pricewaterhouse Coopers). In my many phone calls i've been told that the FSC and Treasure only administer the laws made by the Tynwald.
This means if we want more protection under compensation scheme (AND PLEASE ADDING BUSINESS, CHARITY, PARTNERSHIP, TRUST, ETC) accounts we need to get the Tynwald poeple to again modify this compensation scheme on the 24th of October.

So we need to focus our pressure on these people who make this decision. I've found some start for the phone numbers and names and emails for this. Please everyone work on these guys so they will increase depositor insurance levels and include all us business type depositors as well.

PASTED DETAILS BELOW:
Telephone: +44 (0)1624 685500
Fax: +44 (0)1624 685504
E-mail: enquiries(?)tynwald [dot] org [dot] im
Internet: http://www.tynwald.org.im


Contact Tynwald

  • EIL
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Fri, 17/10/2008 - 04:31

TYNWALD is responsible for ammending the new compensation scheme that does not cover compensation for Corporate accounts. They have a meeting next tuesday to discuss the compensation issue.

People with corporate accounts must send emails, faxes and letters to the below contacts. We need to make sure
that they address our issues in thier meeting.

Telephone: +44 (0)1624 685500
Fax: +44 (0)1624 685504
E-mail: enquiries(?)tynwald [dot] org [dot] im
Internet: http://www.tynwald.org.im


CONTACT TREASURY

  • EIL
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 06:27

I was told by FSC that the treasury is responsible for the decisions that individuals get safeguarded and company accounts get nothing in hand. The treasury confirmed the above. Furthermore, If we want them to revise thier compensation scheme then we need to A.S.A.P fax, email, courier letters to them to revise scheme for companies.

The treasury and other gov authorities will have a meeting on Tuesday next week to consider the compensation scheme, If we dont voice our concerns then they have no use to talk about it. Every one must complain in written so that they bring it up in the next meeting.

Contacts for Treasury are :
http://www.gov.im/treasury//contact_information.xml
Email: treasuryadmin(?)gov [dot] im
Attn : P.M. SHIMMIN ( Chief Executive )

Government Office
Buck's Road
Douglas
Isle of Man
British Isles



One-Person Company

  • JS
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 14:40

I'm a one-man company and also stand to miss out on any compensation (if it comes to that..hopefully not). I've emailed the treasury and will also draft a letter.


same company boat

  • kiwi38
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 14:44

I am in the same boat. Have money in a one man company and also a personal account. Hopefully we don't end up going down the compensation route as I don't fancy more fighting for justice - for a joint personal account to get 2 x £50k and a one man company supporting a family of 4 to zero is simply wrong.


Compensation emails

  • andy3858
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 08:38

As per EIL and ws's suggestions, I have just sent the following mail to Mr Shimmin and a slightly modified version to the crown dependencies office. Obviously feel free to use these as a template if you feel they are appropriate.

Dear Mr Shimmin

I am writing because I have been informed by the FSC yesterday that company and charity accounts held with Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander (IoM) Ltd are being completely excluded from the enhanced compensation scheme approved at last week's Tynwald meeting. (I held several small company accounts and one charity account with Kaupthing IoM.)

I urge you not to discrminate against companies and charities in this unfortunate position. We are not all huge multinationals, but mostly small family businesses who will in many cases have to cease trading if our money is taken from us in this manner.

Please include us in the compensation scheme so that we can at least receive some compensation for our charities, employees, families and businesses from the wreckage of Kaupthing IoM.

Thank you


Contact UK govt department responsible for the Crown dependancie

  • ws
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 07:01

This dept is responsible for the IOM.

crown [dot] dependencies(?)justice [dot] gsi [dot] gov [dot] uk


Corporate Account

  • EIL
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 06:58

We have a corporate account with the bank and we have lost over US$ 60,000. Unfortunately for us the FSC/IOM gov has said to only cover GBP 15,000 which is not even a quarter of our deposit. The idea is to protect only individual deposits by 100% or GBP 50K is what we hear but is'nt a corporate run by individuals too ?

In the end a corporate entity employs and pays salaries to individuals, is owned by individual shareholders, and supports the financial security of individuals. Inadequately compensating corporate entities will result in undue hardship on many individuals.

Although our account balance is surely not the largest account being dealt with in this unfortunate circumstance, the funds in the account are extremely important to our company and the loss of any of these funds would be catastrophic.


It gets worse

  • andy3858
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 19:21

EIL - thanks for your post. I have today emailed the FSC and from their reply it appears that those of us with company and charity accounts with Kaupthing will get nothing at all from the compensation scheme(s). My email to the FSC is below and their reply below that.

And a message for richard who started this thread, I am unclear how to indicate that I had a corporate account via my registration, but FYI I had several of these plus a registered charity account.

MY EMAIL:

Dear Sirs

In addition to a personal account, I held several company accounts and a charity account with Kaupthing IoM. The new compensation scheme with £50K max claim apparently applies only to individuals.

Please can you advise whether this means that companies and charities will receive absolutely nothing at all in compensation under any scheme or will they only be eleigible for compensation up to the maximum level (£15K?) of the old compensation scheme under which (I believe) they were covered?

And thank you I am aware of the faint possibility that liqudation proceeds will provide some recompense, but I am specifically interested in what will be available to companies and charities under the FSC compensation scheme(s).

THE FSC REPLY:

The Regulations are legislation and their interpretation is ultimately a matter for legal opinion. We cannot give legal advice: however, it is our general expectation at this stage that accounts which are not individuals’ deposits (for example companies, and charities) probably would not be covered.


Companies

  • andy3858
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 06:12

Apart from a personal account, I had several company accounts and one registered charity account with the bank. Under the new compensation scheme, do companies and charities receive absolutely nothing or do they only receive what was available under the old compensation scheme? Any ideas anyone? Thanks


FSC: Companies Not Covered

  • JS
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 14:08

I too am employed on a contract basis and have a company account where I receive my pay. I have not transferred my savings to a personal account. I put my situation to the FSC, their response follows:
Thank you for your e-mail. Whilst the Commission cannot give legal advice, as we read them the Regulations only appear to apply to personal accounts and not company accounts. Sorry that we cannot give you better news. However, please note that levels of recovery depend not just on the compensation scheme but on the proceeds of the liquidation.
Regards
Paul de Weerd
Senior Manager
Financial Supervision Commission


Why are Companies excluded

  • alanmac
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 10:33

This is worrying - can someone please clarify the position of companies in respect to the Compensation of Depositors Regulations.

Companies are not specifically excluded under section 10(4) where other bodies (partnerships for example) are.


Feeling alone

  • s_green101
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 08:51

I was trading as a registered business with an account registered as a business, not as a sole trader. I seem to understand from everything I'm reading that as a business account it is not included in any possible compensation package... can anyone confirm that for me? If so, can this website and any spokesperson fight for this as well? A one man business losing his business account may as well be the same thing as losing his personal account. Actually, I lost both. 100% bankrupt.


So is that it? Company accounts recieve zilch in Compensation?

  • s_green101
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 08:28

I had both a private and company account. I'm a one man business, losing the company account (where most of my assets were held) is even worse than losing my private account. How is this justifiable that companies receive no compensation?? What can be done to change it?


Same here

  • skintinKL
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 08:32

As one man businesses we need to present a bit of a 'corporate' front when dealing with clients. why should we miss out on any compensation, if there ever is any!


Need to be heard on this!

  • s_green101
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 08:36

I see that there is a poll to put forward a spokesperson/small group of spokespeople. We should ensure that this issue is also part of their agenda whenever they come to speak for us. How can we do that?


Sole trader

  • skintinKL
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 08:27

As a consultant I had an account with a 'trading as' name to make my invoices more acceptable to my clients. Does anybody know if that counts as a personal or company account?


I would suggest your account

  • sami
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 08:35

I would suggest your account is a personal one and that the status of the account is what is important, not the name. A sole-trader is understood to be the individual person, even if a trading name is used.


Thanks

  • skintinKL
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 08:40

Sami, I hope you are right!


Same situation

  • Marco
  • 10/10/08 12/06/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 06:58

We are a partnership in the same situation

I asked to FSC why the new compensation of depositors regulations will exclude any partnership from the compensation scheme.

Our partnership is a family partnership with me and my 68years old father as members and we sell a single software product !!!

We are not a PLC, we work really hardly to make our money !!

I invite all depositors in our situation (partnership, family trust, business account) to send the same request to FSC in order they could valuate this kind of situations.


I guess they figure that

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 13/10/2008 - 01:14

I guess they figure that "companies have money" an individuals do not. I ran my all small company for many years so I know that's a total over-simplification, but it's what you're faced with.


Simple answer

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 23:32

The simple answer is that it's how the Isle of Man's parliament decided to set up their compensation scheme. Only the politicians will know the true reasons.