Brief Thoughts on JLs Nov Data

  • Gordon 45
  • 22/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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Posted: Mon, 22/12/2014 - 20:37

Hi Folks,

I posted the data below on the main site yesterday. Now posting it on the Chat Site as it is up and working again - thanks ng.

My Latest Thoughts after taking into account the JLs November 2014 Figures - you may not agree with me

  1. Returns for Jan/Nov 2014 were £7.8487m net. My data is based on GBP, apologies to my DAG Colleagues who invested in other currencies.

  2. No change re the 10 loans (facilities) to be repaid and these cover 8 ‘Relationships’ (I think), 1 part loan repaid in November. Remaining loans total £26.708m at 30.11.2014.

  3. FX Returns for Jan/Nov 2014 show a loss of £0.7m (now +£13.5m). The starting figure for Jan 2014 was +£14.2m, Jan 2013 was +£13.2m and Jan 2012 was +£15.2m.

  4. We have now received 100% of our Capital back as at 28.11.2014. Any further returns will be towards interest lost due to the Liquidation.

  5. ‘Unresolved’ around £3.661m + the £1.500m ‘Unclaimed’ = £5.161m at end of Nov 2014. Need the ‘Unresolved’ situation seen to now.

  6. Liquidation costs - Balance around £0.740m (inc my plus £0.7m). JLs will need to increase their £24.3m to cover costs re foreclosures/litigation and investigating how and when to pay interest if we get any.

  7. The ‘write off’ situation, no change at £3.4m.We must expect more ‘write - offs’ any time now.

  8. The ‘set off’ situation no change currently £15.2m.

  9. Re the PG – The return of our Capital means any return from the PG will be towards paying us some interest back. Hopefully, our JLs manage to sell off the PG to a Third Party. There appears to be some movement by the Icelandic Government in it’s objective to lift Capital Controls. It would appear exemption has been granted to LBI hf (Landsbanki) to repay 400bn Krona ($3.2bn) to Priority Creditors. Having read some of the stuff from Sigrún Davíðsdóttir's Icelog I’m still not sure we are that much further forward (purely personal view). But more info is expected in January 2015.

  10. As at the July Progress Report, Loans still due totalled £27.0m. Loans on Properties in the UK (mainly London & South East England £2.8m) totalled £3.1m (11.48%), Overseas Properties totalled £4.9m (18.15%), the 3 yachts totalled £14.2m (52.59%), Portfolio Loans totalled £0.1m, Unsecured Loans totalled £3.4m (12.59%) and Aircraft totalled £1.3m (4.81%). Based on currency, 85.168% of loans, come from mainly Euros plus some USD & Swiss Francs. Within that % Euros account for 64.053% and circa 54.554% of all loans due.

  11. No more info on the end date of the Liquidation, but the JLs must surely push forward now to finalise the loan book quickly (one way or another), then the PG and/or perhaps sell off both as one entity – let’s hope so. And look at and finalise any Litigation, outwith that of the loan book. Returns from Loans since July 2014 Progress Report virtually nil when you allow for FX movements.

  12. Think we have an approx net £1.069m - (if you allow for my extra £0.7m towards Liquidation Expenses over and above the JLs current £24.3m – as said above they will definitely have to increase their figure, perhaps by more than my £0.7m) - towards interest payments to Creditors. Need 0.4% or around £3.5m to pay the initial contractual interest. ‘All Creditors would’ (then) ‘receive interest at 4% pa’. ‘Paying this interest to creditors could amount to up to £36.2m per annum, but would of course be limited by the extent to which cash was available’. Quoted data taken from JLs info in January 2013 update.

Based on a question by D RAM on the main site the other day I replied quoting my point 12, above, to him, plus the undernoted.

If you discount my extra £0.7m for Liquidation costs you would have around £1.769m available to pay interest. But, based on all the JLs have to do to finalise this Liquidation they will definitely have to increase their current £24.3m to cover costs. whether my guess at £0.7m is sufficient or to much - who knows.

As always take care,

And God Bless,

Gordon 45

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Memory Lane!

  • steve
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 22/01/2015 - 16:00

I am just clearing through some old paperwork and have come across a Sunday Times article dated February 10th 2008 and had to smile.
On the money pages was an article headed "Time to bale out of Iceland?" with a report on various banks including Icesave (Landsbanki) and Kaupthing Edge. Among the quotes are things like " we are here for the long term" "hugely liquid" "Your money is safe with Kaupthing" "We have a huge corporate banking arm " (Kaupthing) . The word "guarantee" crops up several times through the article.

What is also interesting are the interest rates, Kaupthing Edge leading with 6.86%. Happy Days (not!) Also the FSCS guarantee was a "mere" £35,000. Seems so long ago doesn't it? I remember telephoning the KSF office on the IOM on the following day (staffed by the Derbyshire people I had dealt with when opening the account) voicing my concerns, and basically being told "not to be so silly". We know different now don't we readers?

Who said Hindsight is a wonderful thing?

Many thanks Gordon. Happy New

  • sambururob
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 01/01/2015 - 15:23

Many thanks Gordon.
Happy New Year.
Rob and Wendy

Gordon 45 Report 22/12/2014

  • Wombat761
  • 30/01/09 20/03/15
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 01/01/2015 - 05:16

Thanks again Gordon.

It looks as if there will be funds left over under administration following the 100% point having being reached. What is the legal obligation of the liquidator in accounting for the balance of future received funds to pay interest on accumulated Unpaid Principal Amounts of depositor funds (for the duration of the liquidation) once the initial debt has been repaid and "loans" have been repaid? Does the surplus revert to (a) The depositor, (b) the IOM Government ?, (c) The Liquidator , or (d) any other class of creditor?

This question bears on my need to retain an ongoing sterling account for any back interest payments .

My current IOM -based bank (a well-known multinational) advised last week that it is closing my IOM account because I'm not resident in the IOM ! While it offers to transfer any residual funds to a nominated overseas bank, I am in a quandary about whether this cuts off my entitlements to future payments from the KSF IIOM Liquidation .

Perhaps you or another DAG member , or member of the Creditors Committee may care to Answer?

To Wombat761

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 01/01/2015 - 09:15

Hi Wombat,

Once a few still unapproved claims have been settled and any new claims approved and the agreed amounts fully paid out (ie 100% capital for all approved claims), further funds recovered will be used to pay interest to all creditors. Interest (accrued but uncapitalised at 8 Oct 2008) that was capped at 5% ('deferred interest') will be paid in priority, followed by interest at a fixed rate for the years following. Some of the fine details of this have yet to be resolved by the Liquidators (who will need to obtain directions from the Court) and we await a further update from them. This issue has been discussed elsewhere on this site (eg here:, but it is already clear that there WILL be some future interest payment(s) to depositors.

However, I see no reason for you to retain a sterling account to receive future payments, which can clearly be remitted to any bank in the world, where they will be converted if the account is not in sterling; you will just need to supply the new account details to the Liquidators. If the new account is not in sterling, you will clearly have to pay some currency conversion charges, but there's no way you can lose your entitlement to liquidation payments.

On a more general point, the news that at least one IOM bank is closing accounts for non-IOM residents is interesting (I too have retained an IOM-based account, not specifically to receive liquidation payments but in order to retain a sterling account for use when I visit the UK). Are you willing to say which bank is doing this (if not here, maybe you could email me?). It may be that others will follow...

Happy New Year to all,

Back Interest Payments

  • Wombat761
  • 30/01/09 20/03/15
  • a depositor
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  • Sat, 03/01/2015 - 01:47

Dear Anrigaut:
Thanks very much for your clarification regarding on/ vs offshore accounts for interest payments.

Yes I'm happy to reveal which bank.

Its HSBC (formerly Midland), for me at least. I've held the account in IOM for ca 20 years, and prior to that from the mid-60's in the UK midlands. At the time Midland were recommending offshore banking to expats for former UK, then Overseas Residents for their better interest rates to non-resident customers.

The "news" was apparently first made public in "ManxForums" on 13/11/2014 by Barrie Stevens who was asking "Why"?: See - Look for "HSBC Closing IOM accounts for non-residents"- using a search engine (eg. webcrawler). The closure letter came not from the branch but from a group calling itself "REMEDIATION TEAM" (Address in Guernsey), per Area Director Dyfrig Roberts.

Thanks for your rapid follow-up and advice.
Also for all the work you have done for DAG & stranded KSF -IOM customers generally.
And a very happy and peaceful 2015 to you and yours!

Account Closure Chaos triggered by US FATCA?

  • VikingRaider
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 05/01/2015 - 09:37

The bank aacount closures may be linked to the unintended consequences wrought by the US 'Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act' (FATCA) which not only produced chaos across the world as banks have closed accounts of non-residents but has turned border areas of the US south-west into a branch banking wasteland, fuelling the cash-based boder 'grey economy' and creating a financial paradise for the narcotics cartels and their shadow banking systems.

One wonders why the North Koreans are so anxious to wreak havoc in the American economy when the US Congress appears to be doing such an excellent job unassisted!

Position of bond holders

  • KrapthingSwindl...
  • 15/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 18/01/2015 - 22:06

Sorry if this issue has been dealt with elsewhere, but what is the position of the bond holders? Does anybody know if they have they also been repaid in full and will payments be made to bond holders before any interest payments to depositors?


  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 19/01/2015 - 08:55

Bondholders are repaid via the insurance companies who issued their bonds and who are the direct claimants in the liquidation. These companies have always been treated equally with depositors and should now all have received 100% of their deposits with KSFIOM. There is therefore no reason for them to be treated any differently going forward - any interest payments should also go to them.

If you have not yet been fully repaid, you need to contact your insurance company to find out why. Maybe some of them have retained some of the money for management fees? But if so, that is a problem between you and them. Clearly the liquidation is not going to pay any charges made by the companies (any more than it pays the administrative costs of the DCS, which fortunately DCS claimants have not had to pay) - and nor should it.

Hope that helps. However, I'm not a bondholder, so maybe others who are can shed more light on this.