Breaking news from Tynwald

  • jonathansmalley
  • 18/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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Posted: Thu, 23/10/2008 - 16:13

Alan Bell Treasury Minister has just announced in Tynwald that the attorney generalon behalf of the Treasury will oppose in court tomorrow the winding up of the bank.

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Clarification of Breaking News from Tynwald

  • jonathansmalley
  • 18/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 17:22

Since leaving Tynwald, I have been told that the Attorney General will not be opposing the making of a winding up Order, he will be seeking a 28 day adjournment.

The source was not authoritative, but is unlikely to be wrong. It makes much more sense for the A-G to be seeking an adjournment. If this is the case, we should all expect to be told why in Court tomorrow.

If you want details of the debate, go to the Tynwald website and look in Hansard, but that will not be updated until tomorrow.


Good ... breathing space. If

  • go mann
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 17:27

Good ... breathing space.

If nothing else, that's not a negative and should be seen as a positive.


News Gathering

  • monde2
  • 23/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 17:17

Maybe you're all doing this already, but I have created an email alert on Google, "Kaupthing Isle of Man" so that all the latest news comes directly, and quickly, to my inbox.


Breaking news from Tynwald

  • Brian FISHER
  • 20/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 16:43

I think if this info is correct then it must be positive news. The AG on behalf of the Treasury would certainly have the status to join the court action if desired, and of course the AG, being a government political appointment would have easy ready access to all the news news re: inter-governmental /country negotiations etc.

What we need today to ensure everyone can sleep easier tonight, if only a little easier, is to know PRECISELY what was said today, as well as the PRECISE source for PRECISELY what was said today.

Brian Fisher


News from Tynwald

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 16:55

Could this be linked to the meeting tomorrow between the IOM govt, FSC, UK Treasury and FSA (see General Discussion thread)? Would seem a good motive for delay?


Seems to be a contradiction here

  • Julienne
  • 16/10/08 31/08/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 16:43

Please please clarify - - Is he going to oppose - am I allowed to breath ever so slightly ????


Please read the post carefully

  • mikepapa
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 17:54

Julienne,

Please read it carefully ....... the AG is not going to oppose winding up, however he is going to support a 28day stay of execution on the order.... which is what most of us have been looking for, so as to give politicians time to fix our problem.


mark my words

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 19:06

Politicians are not going to "fix our problems" - they are gojng to fix their problems. If the two coincide it will be fortuitous, nothing more.


Our problem, their problem

  • dustyourselfdown
  • 13/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 19:50

If the only way things get fixed by Govermnet is if it is their problem, then we need to make our problem their problem, then they will fix it. This is what all the pressure this group is applying is all about.

We need to keep the pressure on.


OMG, I agree with

  • go mann
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 19:22

OMG, I agree with Mainwaring!

Politicians will be interested in their electorate, and rightly so. We are "collateral damage" which might, just might, make them realise their wider interests. Anyway, enough for today ... my brain [and wallet] hurts. ;-)


We agree on something, and at

  • Captain Mainwaring
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 19:10

We agree on something, and at the moment they are trying to do a lot of fixing - not least our friends from the IoM.


IOM treasury opposes winding up

  • Knife Edge
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 16:42

Thanks for this - if the FSC take into account depositors' wishes (as they say they will) then this should be blocked. Can you post a source for corroboration of this information?


central question

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 19:28

Having seen the very long piece on Channel 4, which I think was very very useful, I want to push again what I have been saying for the past day.

The IoM government and UK government are deliberately obfuscating and protecting their own interests. The former has just significantly diluted its new compensation scheme and pretended it is an upgrade. The latter is doing its best to defocus the issue and divert attention from the fact that it has frozen funds that do not belong to it or to depositors with the UK subsidiary. I think that there is now only a narrow window of time left to get out a message before the UK press tires of the issue, and I think that message should be seeking an answer to the question:

"Is the UK government holding about £550 million belonging to KS&F(IOM) and if so could it please give it back NOW so that the depositors in KS&F(IOM) can be repaid their lost savings?"

Someone might want to improve my wording.

The subsidiary questions such as "why did the FSC order KS&F(IOM) to put it there?" and "why on Earth did the UK Treasury think they could get away with ring-fencing that money for compensation of UK depositors when it belongs to the IOM subsidiary and/or its creditors?" could follow later.


application is for an adjournment

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 17:02

Manx government through AG to apply to adjourn winding-up, as distinct from opposing the winding-up. A postponement of the winding up is what the IoM government and the FSC has been indicating that it wants for the past week or more, for reasons that I have speculated on previously, and it does not signal to me that anything extraordinary in the interests of the creditors is about to happen.


Could you give me a link

  • Captain Mainwaring
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 17:25

Could you give me a link where you explain your reasons in detail?

The winding up can only be completely set aside by the court upon application by the petitioners.
At this time, only an adjournment can be requested.


Winding up petition

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 18:56

The petitioners can withdraw their petition, but obviously the court could reject it. However, there doesn't appear to be any reason for refusing the winding up, because at the moment KSFIOM can't pay its debts.

If the money in London is recovered KSFIOM probably would be able to cover its immediate debt, so there is still an eventual possibility that the bank could avoid winding-up. But that's very much a wait-and-see.


That's why I am in favour of

  • Captain Mainwaring
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 19:02

That's why I am in favour of seeing it postponed. They won't withdraw the petition, but a sine die application may give enough time for the lies and deceipt to become apparent and show that the petition could be set aside.

And it is assumed that both petitioning creditors must be in agreement?


It does at least prevent

  • go mann
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 17:14

It does at least prevent precipitate action. I take some comfort from that, whilst inter-Governmental discussions [and indeed our lobbying] is still on-going. It will be nice to play with a full deck, instead of not even being able to join the game.


Tynwald

  • giveus backourfunds
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 16:29

is this not a recommendation only that FSF is not would up, who honestly thinks this wont happen ? The only way is that they are confident the funds can be recovered and is that likely ? I would not give good odds ?


Thank you Jonathon, do you

  • Captain Mainwaring
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 16:22

Thank you Jonathon, do you have a source for this?
I for one take note of what you are doing.


But hasn't Mr. Smalley...

  • 491
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 16:41

advocated for immediate windup - no delay? The bulletin on his firms website. Confused. Blair


Smalley's advice

  • Knife Edge
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 16:52

I think that his bulletin has to be read as speaking at that time. Clearly, if the IOM govt and FSC are meeting with the UK govt and FSA tomorrow, then that is a good reason to adjourn the proceedings.

What he actually said was

In the absence of £ 680 million being transferred to Kaupthing’s Provisional
Liquidator, the best hope is to press ahead with the winding up of Kaupthing.
If nothing else, it keeps pressure on those that want to avoid an insolvent
winding up of Kaupthing to do something dramatic by 10 am on October 24,
2008 when this matter goes back to Court.

Perhaps this meeting is going to be something dramatic?!


Smalley's Advice

  • 491
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 17:38

Yeah, I read this paragraph. But could never get my head around the rationale: filing for windup is good because “it keeps pressure on those that want… to do something dramatic by 10 am on October 24”. Really? They need even more pressure? They have immense pressure already. But somehow a petition to windup is the “gun to the head” that will precipitate a solution by tomorrow? Sure – whatever.

I’ve been against a rush to windup from the beginning – it’s too soon and nothing is lost by waiting a while. Blair


breaking news : GOOD news !

  • KA
  • 14/10/08 29/06/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 16:21

Take heart everyone. This is GOOD news. Let's pray he succeeds


not convinced

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 16:28

I am not convinced that this is good news for depositors.


No, you made your point

  • Captain Mainwaring
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 16:33

No, you made your point earlier, and when I asked you to justify it, you mentioned that this was for the inner sanctum- if you care to give me one good reason why a few days or whatever the court deems fit will make an ounce of difference until then, then I will read what you have to say, but at this point, I almost have to take you as a troll, trying to upset what in my eyes appears to be a path forward,

I'm listening??


misquote

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 16:54

I prefer not to argue with people who misquote what I have said. I suggest that you re-read my previous posting.


Thats not what he said, he

  • manx-person
  • 17/10/08 31/05/09
  • not a depositor
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  • Thu, 23/10/2008 - 17:08

Thats not what the Treasury Minister said, he said that he is speaking to the AG in order to ensure that the courtes are aware of the the Governments wish.
As you know Mr Smalley the Government is not one of the petitioners