" 'Blackmail' letter could lose support for KSF depositors" says Speaker of House of Keys

  • Lucky Jim
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • not a depositor
  • Offline
Posted: Sun, 15/03/2009 - 16:57

How dare he have the nerve to besmirch honest, decent innocent depositors!

Ref: http://www.iomtoday.co.im/news/39Blackmail39-letter-could-lose-support.5...

Letter in defense of depositors' integrity with some suggestions as to how the IoM Government could get out of the hole Allen Bell has dug for it

Sir,

Will the IoM Government please answer this question: 'do you accept the UK Prime Minister's policy statement on 18 February that all governments should vouchsafe savings and deposits in the banks in their jurisdiction?'

I did not hear Gordon Brown say "except for the Isle of Man" !

If the IoM Government can not do this then it ceases to have any credibility as the head of an off-shore financial services industry. It is in the same position as the Icelandic Government that could not save a run on its banks. It is as simple as that.

The British Parliament could, & should, legislate to require the IoM to come into line with the UK & the rest of Europe. So stop this nonesence and do the right, just and honourable thing and uphold the TRUST that 10,000 people throughout the world put in the Isle of Man when they put their savings in the Kaupthing bank.

You don't need to be blackmailed -- you need to face up to your duty to those who put their life savings in your trust. If you don't do that why should you expect anyone else to deposit their life savings in such a risky & untrustworthy off-shore centre?

IoM taxpayers don't have to pay a penny; there's enough wealth sloshing around in certain IoM financial institutions to settle the whole sordid business. If you have a problem why not ask the Cayman Islands for a loan? They have plenty of money looking for a home and interest rates are now so low that your banks will have no problem of helping you out until you can persuade HM Government to release that money your FSC so willingly agreed to see transferred to the UK where it is frozen by Court Order. It doesn't take much more than a bit of grovelling and a phone call to Alistair Darling to get this situation sorted out to everyone's satisfaction.

So stop the procrastination and disreputable snide attacks on depositors and start acting to protect your fast dwindling AAA Credit Rating.

L. Jim

PS: I am not e KSFIOM depositor but I have removed my life savings from another bank in the IoM


This letter sent to IoMToday, the Manx Herald & Manx Radio

4.548385
Your rating: None Average: 4.5 (31 votes)

Comment viewing options
Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Definition of blackmail

  • Monkeyface3604
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 17/03/2009 - 17:43

The definition of blackmail according to English law is as follows:

Section 21 of the Theft Act 1968 provides the offence of Blackmail. It states:-
21(1) A person is guilty of blackmail if, with a view to gain for himself or another or with intent to cause loss to another, he makes any unwarranted demand with menaces;

21(2) The nature of the act or omission demanded is immaterial, and it is also immaterial whether the menaces relate to action to be taken by the person making the demand.

to explain more clearly, with a view to gain for himself or another is defined as (The motive of the defendant must be proved. The act must be done in order that someone will profit but it does not have to be the person making the entry. The gain must be in money or other property and can be temporary or permanent. It includes a gain by keeping what one has as well as gaining what one has not.)

So as you can clearly see there is no offence of blackmail completed by sending this letter (mailcious communication would be the worst you could get out of it....even then you would struggle)
There is no gain involved in the letter....how can you gain what was your in the first place
Also no intent as the sender believes they have an honest right to the money anyway....after all its theirs....OURS!!!!

The reason the police are not looking into it is there is notghing to look into, Mr Bell is precticing the ancient polititical art of smoke screening and distraction.


Blackmail?

  • lifesavings
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 16/03/2009 - 15:43

Has anyone seen this ´letter´? Why has the IOM press printed this cr··p? Surely a proper journalist gets his/her facts right before ´accusing´ anyone? Have they just taken the word of the Bishop, Police etc? Maybe the letter has been fabricated and the whole thing has been ´leaked´ on purpose? Who would do such a thing? It appears to be making the depositors look bad? Mmmmmmm........

There is an alledged letter alledgedly from a KFS depositor? Allegations could start in the other direction. Beware!


Blackmail?

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Tue, 17/03/2009 - 20:55

I have seen a copy of the letter. It is anonymous. Moreover, there is no apparent connection between the author and DAG. I can see no evidence of there being any criminal offence committed by the author/sender of the letter nor even any tort, and in respect of the former it appears that the IOM plod could not see one either.

Presumably the person wrongly accused by the Bishop of blackmail will forgive him his trangressions just as the Bishop will doubtless wish to apologise for making the allegation, otherwise he may face the wrath of a higher authority whose movements are more mysterious even than the transfer of KSFIOM funds.


Blackmail?

  • Codpeace
  • 23/10/08 30/11/12
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 17/03/2009 - 21:17

Wouldn't surprise me to find out that this was part of the IOM scheme to discredit us.... After all the months that we thought they were working to resolve this calamity they were only working to save themselves.


BLACKMAIL

  • 208
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 16/03/2009 - 19:49

To answer your question :-The correspondence was genuine ( and stupid ) and it was sent from a KSF depositor.
To answer the other posting he is from the Republic of Eire.
He almost/may have cost the likes of you and me any support that the IoMgov are giving us. It will not help to gather support for our cause and the attacks on this site on the Manx people who by the way make up a vast number of depositors is really a bit silly.
Lessons on how to shoot oneself in the foot- see the DAG site.


What is silly !

  • merlina
  • 26/01/09 01/06/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 17/03/2009 - 16:20

What is silly is the reaction of Bell and co. to this so called letter. They seem to be doing everything to dirty our name.

Do you think that any other government leaders would react in such a childish way ? I'm sure they could fill sackfuls with such letters.

Mr Bell and his company need to grow up and get on with getting our money back 100%.

I am sure IOM people will be adult enough to see this ranting for what it is.

So, no more threats to us about we will lose credibility.


208

  • Tricky Dicky
  • 24/10/08 30/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 17/03/2009 - 13:43

Hi 208,
Firstly hope the migraines are improving.

Secondly, you say the letter came from Republic of Ireland - I have read through all the reports on this matter I can find, but cannot trace anything, in any of them mentioning this fact, could you let us know from whom or where this information came from?

Cheers
TD


Vast majority of depositors

  • bobwin
  • 23/12/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 17/03/2009 - 11:26

Can you provide the details on the number and value of Island deposotors in KSFIOM please to justify your assertion?
According to the poll, to which 1196 members responded, 4% were fromIOM and > 80% were expats or UK.
I do not believe that the majority of depositors live in IOM.

The margin of error is statistically unlikely.


Numbers

  • Tricky Dicky
  • 24/10/08 30/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 17/03/2009 - 11:44

Hi bobwin,
You will need to remember that there is in the region of 10,000 depositors - whether this is the same as the number of accounts I'm not sure - but IOM residents will probably have been using the bank as a current account etc. There are some numbers somewhere that says that 2000 or so will be 'taken out' by EPS 1 & 2.
So potentially the number of smaller depositors are probably IOM based, by number but not by value. Due to this, I doubt if many of the 'smaller depositors IOM resident' - no offence intended - are probably not members of the DAG, which is why the poll reflects what it does


Nonsense

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 17/03/2009 - 02:38

Nonsense 208
We are all genuine people here asking for our OWN funds to be returned to us.
We have done no wrong and therefore we should have no need to curry favour with the Manx people in order to do so.


Its on the site somewhere

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 16/03/2009 - 17:10

But its mild as milk only one who had lived a very sheltered life would take umbrage at it .
Basically threatened to besmirch the reputation of the IOMG and air all their dirty washing if they dont come up with the money.

Threatening to besmirch a reputation ( speaking as one who has not only been bereft of ones life savings but labeled a fat cat tax dodging shyster by no less a person as our darling Mr Darling ) is hardly a crime.

If you dont have any dirty washing it cant get aired -can it?

If you do the Daily Mail probably got there first anyway.


Bellyup

  • lifesavings
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 16/03/2009 - 18:38

Did you really say that the letter is on this site somewhere? Surely taking umbrage is slightly different to interpreting a mild as milk letter as potential blackmail?

Yes, to threaten to besmirch a persons or governments reputation is not a crime. But following through is virtually impossible.

The writer of this letter, in my opinion, has not done the normal sane depositors any good.

Where is it on this site incidentally?


I dont know where it is

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 16/03/2009 - 19:34

I dont know where it is it was here some days ago.

It hasnt done any good or any bad to anyone.

It was not even especially threatening in my opinion.

I would like to point out that being polite patient and reasonable hasnt done any depositor ( I cant tell and nor can anyone who is sane or not ) any good either .

Edited to say it was the link that was on the site

http://www2.iomtoday.co.uk/pdfs/KSFIOM_Bishop_100309.pdf


Lucky Jim

  • Ramsey resident
  • 22/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 16/03/2009 - 14:33

If you are not a depositor then stop your anti IOM rantings on this site, which is for depositors and stop you own attacks that you complain off when others do it

I support the Speaker - rantings like yours are starting to turn the ordinary Manx people against us. This will be followed by the elected politicians and it will be we depositors who lose out in the long run. As you are not a depositor then stop trying to queer our pitch

Todays IOM Examiner newpaper reports NO loss of IOM total bank depoits to date and in fact they increased over the past year. The rantings of a few people are NOT going to bring down the Isle of Man. Even the G20 stance seems to have changed in the past week from abolishing tax havens to seeking greater transparency in tax information exchange. The IOM is a leader here already

And before you say it I am not an IOM Gov mole but a private sector worker in the non-financial economy who objects to people like you trying to take away my livelyhood after Gordon Brown (Not the IOM) stole my savings


@Ramsey resident: No smoke without fire.......

  • follow_the_tao
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 16/03/2009 - 16:42

One letter from one person referring vaguely to actually putting information into public view that really ought to be in the public forum if it exists, and a person saying that they will attempt to put such information there if their money is not returned to them. And this letter was sent to a Bishop.

And some 'powerful' people who obviously have great sway with the media, who obviously know that there is no threat because they know there have been no such acts, are shouting at the top of their voices telling us, and I had nothing to do with it, that 'we' are damaging our case, and if we don't stop complaining somehow we will loose their goodwill.

That's the "Case of the Bishop of Sod "<"something">" (can't recall)".

You've generalised out to call what I see as reasonable observations on the furor this is causing in the IoM (and I don't know how newsworthy this story would be in a larger jurisdiction) as being indicative of a "rant"ing state of mind.

What strikes me here is the fact that two groups of people seem to be standing a significant distance apart shouting at one another, and in fact one group, the IoMG, seems to have loudhailers. And I find myself thinking why don't they find a table and start talking reasonably, placing all the facts on the table and looking to find ways to remove the senses of grievance.

Now my feeling is that we want to do this but the IoMG doesn't.

Can you see my point?

p.s. I can't imagine why the G20 is suddenly pulling back on its wish list. Guess we'll see.


Talking

  • 208
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 16/03/2009 - 20:37

I/ We have been talking to IOMGov since day one and we are getting there but blackmail threats don't help our cause. I/We have spent a lot of time and effort working to find a solution to this mess that will help every depositor and I/we don't need idiots sending stupid letters and putting us back.
So, sorry, no I can't see your point


@208: The cheque is in the post.

  • follow_the_tao
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 17/03/2009 - 14:53

Hello Mr Braddan,

I think we share the same first name.

I'm almost flattered you deemed to revisit the site so soon after your last visit. You've deviated from your normal bi-monthly schedule? And I'm flattered you chose to respond to my posting.

A number of points.

I can see the point you are trying to make. But apparently you don't see mine.

As you seem to have a steer on the identity of the letter writer I assume we can proceed on the basis that I/we had nothing at all to do with it. If you look at my history of postings you will see very very clearly that I have counselled vocally and continuously against the use of threats. I have stated clearly and emphatically that any attempt to intimidate is bad style, counter-productive and carries a serious risk of mis-firing. Facetiously I might add that at the very least my opinion would be that if I was going to attack someone I wouldn't send them a postcard giving time and date, I ask you, how stupid can you be?

In a highly stressful situation such as the one we are in, give the normal range of personalities, it is more or less inevitable that someone would be found thinking along the same lines as the writer. That of course doesn't mean that we would necessarily see any correlated act. I stress again here that we, not you, are unaware of the identity of the writer, and we still do not know if he was a depositor, or a member of DAG. I think English law works on the proposition that you are innocent until proved guilty. My point, the point you didn't understand, or was it that you didn't agree with it?, or was it that you are in fact trying to say something else?, was that the IoMG response was inappropriate. And I am still of that opinion.

But now let us deal with the substance of your short posting.

You state that you have been talking with the IoMG since day 1. I believe that is correct. And I believe also that some of your agenda has been the source of considerable consternation within DAG. Please don't misunderstand me here, I am in favour of dialogue. But not monologues. I am also in favour of transparency.
I ask myself why does IoMG choose to talk with you and not DAG?

I am sure you can be charming when you try. And no doubt you have tried to charm the IoMG. There is one very obvious question though, what have you achieved?

Perhaps you would care to invite me along to your next dinner with IoMG?

yours faithfully

David


Since day one

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 17/03/2009 - 02:55

And what exactly have you achieved from day one?
6 months down the line and we are no more closer to receiving our hard earned life savings back than on the 8th October.
Please stop playing the IOM party line and making decent people feel that they are in the wrong somehow.
We the depositors are NOT in the wrong and its really not appropriate or helpful for anyone to say otherwise.


Since before Day1

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 17/03/2009 - 13:56

The fact is, that it is our money; we know where it is too - and we know how it got there. It has not gone missing, the bank was not broke, and it didn't go back to Iceland and fund the domestic collective there. Some may say that it's as well that the FSC and directors of the bank moved the assets to the sister bank in the UK instead of leaving it in Iceland. Now that we know as much as the FSC did at the time, I think we are quite at liberty to say that what the FSC and directors did was less than 1/2 a job. Just knowing that Icelandic banks were under close scrutiny from the FSA and other regulators should have put all the warning lights on, and to trying to foist the responsibility of the decision in moving the assets to London onto the FSA instead of making up their own minds and taking responsible action - appropriate to all the circumstances - speaks volumes of people doing a job for which they were neither competent or qualified to do.

The Isle of Man has operated its Financial Offshore Centre along lines not too dissimilar to Iceland, especially in having no independent bank of last resort. The Icelandic people are bearing the brunt of the greed and incompetence of their banks and their officials for getting them into this awful mess, but they also realise that their Government failed to enact rules preventing fiscal deprivation being wrought upon thousand of other hapless European depositors and that they must foot the bill and suffer the consequences - on top of their own much reduced quality of life. If you belong to a free country and the elected leaders of the majority screw up, then you all pay. The UK taxpayers will be funding this financial banking disaster for many years, if not decades.

The IoM Government were happy to advertise a Depositors Compensation Scheme (DCS) which went without pre-funding even though there is no bank of last resort to step in and ADEQUATELY satisfy a single bank failure, let alone more than one in succession. The IoMG have escaped the consequences of this risky operation for years; years in which the average size of accounts has vastly increased without any corresponding increase in the size of compensation. These people have been living in cloud cuckoo land; only when the bank failed did they take extraordinary measures to implement an increase in the 'virtual' DCS. They have been happy to take the profits of a multi-billion pound financial business, but run from one disaster to another in a purely reactive manner because they do not have the vision to see what's coming, or a proper sense of responsibility and means to take effective action prior to the event. You have only to look back at the number of sheer cock-ups made by them to realise that the people running this Government and other official entities are inadequate in any fair appraisal of their efforts.

Someone must pay for their mistakes, and its not going to be the thousands of folk who have prudently saved for their respective retirements in the mistaken belief that the Isle of Man was a safe place to do so. No, the Government of the island has let down its own people and the thousands who brought wealth to the place for decades past. It is a simple fact of life, it is not for the people who made these diligent savings to lose their money, or even part of their money, it is for the people who lost it to pay, and that ultimately falls to the people who voted these incompetents into office - and have kept them in office despite the magnitude of past errors that already found them seriously wanting in truth and integrity. I am as sorry for the Manx people (22% of KSFIoM savers are from IoM) as I am for the Icelandic people; they apparently did nothing wrong - but sitting on the sidelines and allowing corrupt Governments to continue in practice is an apathetic abdication of responsibility from which too many of us are suffering, and no one is going to escape paying for the multitude of mistakes that have brought us here.


Call their bluff

  • tonycBrisbaneOz
  • 12/10/08 31/05/13
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 16/03/2009 - 12:35

Why not call Allan Bell's bluff and demand a vigorous police investigation? As there has been a significant fall in crime on the IOM then there should be plenty of police resources available. If it is blackmail, as claimed, then DAG's name has been besmirched also.

Regards, TonyC


Re this infamous 1/2 letter(s). A thought....

  • follow_the_tao
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 15/03/2009 - 19:53

I know it wasn't me. A postmark from SAmerica would have been a bit of a give away.

And I don't know who it was. It isn't my style and I don't think it was that bright, we see how this item is being played by some in the IoM. Any reasonable person, English, Manx, or whatever, would realise that it is neither effective nor is it the action of 'the vast majority' (obviously if we are 2500 people minimum).

The letter says something about the person that sent it and the reaction to it says even more about those that apparently need to focus on the action of a very angry but hardly competent person.
Those that react in the way we are seeing are either not thinking straight, frightened, or being manipulative. Whichever way you look at their reaction it isn't good, might be understandable, but looks like they need a big brother. If I was being mischievious I might suggest HMG, but then again HMG is actually responsible for their defence.

But who actually knows a depositor sent it? Have the police this information? Yes it seems immediately obvious it would be a depositor. But it was anonymous, wasn't it?
It might have been anybody! Who knows what some people might do in order to make political mischief or advantage.

My style would be simply to note that I don't think IoMG is playing by the Marquis of Queensbury rules.


Bishop denied justice!

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Mon, 16/03/2009 - 07:22

It is difficult to imagine a greater scandalum magnum than that directed against the good Bishop of Sodall. I understand that he has received a scurrilous document, containing suggestions that there might be some past scandals hidden in IOM's cupboard. In a characteristic act of Christian forgiveness, the good bishop immediately reported the matter to the police and called upon depositors to reveal the author's identity.

The "threats" perceived by the Bishop were quite enough to send any man of the cloth scurrying to the police and perhaps even seek assistance from still higher authority. The real scandal here is the failure of the police to mobilise the Island's forces against the perpetrator of this dastardly deed. Instead, I understand that the response of the Island's police has been to put together a so-called Scheme of Arrangement for dealing with this matter, under which large sums of taxpayers' money will be paid to advisors to devise methods of ignoring the good Bishop's complaints. The scheme is to be known uncharitably as SSSCA (Sodorf Sodor, Sodall to Complain About).

I am therefore proposing to form a Lord Bishop of Sodor and Man Blackmail Action Group (BISHBAG), dedicated to obtaining justice for the Bishop and to protect him from further exposure to heinous acts of this sort.

(note to readers: Sodor is the fictitious island home of Thomas the Tank Engine and his friends)


great one elgee

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 16/03/2009 - 11:51

LOL

Please please send this to the comments - Manx Mouthpiece of whatever Bells PR paper/radio is called.


Lucky Jim

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 16/03/2009 - 11:58

Re cartoon - do watch out for thunderbolts from above today!


IOMG creating Divisions

  • klauseriksen
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 15/03/2009 - 19:24

It is clear that we have entered the last phase now in the propaganda game where the majority of depositors i.e. sub 50K and mostly local IOM residents are being described as reasonable by IOMG and the rest i.e. mostly non IOM residents > 50K depositors are being described as a minority of hardcore, unreasonable and greedy depositors which the local taxpayer should not have to support


I just commented, I quote,

  • SgKZ
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 15/03/2009 - 19:30

I just commented,

I quote, Treasury Minister Allan Bell said: 'It was blackmail – there is no doubt in my mind at all."

The Police are taking no action. Errr, does that mean that there is no evidence of blackmail? So, does your Treasury Minister have a more comprehensive understanding of the blackmail laws than your own Police Service? Does this not worry you that he could have such a basic offence in law so muddled up? It's a good job that he only works with numbers and not real laws. Oh, wait a minute, the financial services industry does have laws that regulate it. Maybe he missed the memo on that one?

Oh, and please don't make us poor depositors feel that we are getting a free hand-out, activate the Depositors Compensation Scheme that has 'Served you so well" for all these years and make the financial institutions cover it like they are supposed to. Or aren't they too happy about putting their hands in their pockets?

Do you really want to test the water and see how well your Island works with a decimated financial industry? I personally think that the vast majority of residents are hard-working honest people but your leaders are playing a dangerous game of Russian Roulette with your jobs.


How can it be blackmail?

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 15/03/2009 - 21:16

To want your OWN money back?

I bet the police were in a quandary as they drove back to fill in their 3 hours of paper work


Blackmail

  • conned
  • 13/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 16/03/2009 - 09:21

Do you smell a slight odour of panic emanating from The Bishop and Allan Bell.?