BIG REQUEST FROM THE LONDON TEAM

  • Diver
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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Posted: Sat, 25/10/2008 - 11:58

Hi Guys, thanks very much for doing such great work in getting our message out to the press and media at large. We definitely have their attention and they're listening, printing and broadcasting. We could not have asked for more and, as someone has pointed out, big corporations pay ££££££ for the amount of publicity we've maNaged to generate. Great work!

Now it looks like we need to take a different tack. As you've probably seen we're starting to get comments back from the media indicating that we may be over doing the number of emails to the UK press and TV stations. I don't have much sympathy for them but then we do need to keep them on side.

Our request is this: Please carry on emailing every single MP, politician and committee contact that we have got (Click Here for UK MP Addresses). These guys need to know that we're here, we're not going away and the sooner they get the Government to play fair the sooner we'll leave them alone. Please also carry on emailing the foreign press...especially those of you who are abroad and have dedicated expat newspapers etc... Let's make sure our plight is heard outside these shores as well.

BUT. PLEASE LEAVE ANY FURTHER EMAILS TO THE UK PRESS & MEDIA TO THE LONDON TEAM. If there is something you think needs to be said then by all means email one of us (best to email me, Teapot or Sleepless) and we'll do our best. We need to start managing our disussions with these guys and we need them to know that the listening works both ways. We have had great coverage this week and if we want that to continue we need to tread carefully.

I realise just how much you all want to help and it really is appreciated. There are times where reigning back our crys for help works just as well as going for an all out assault. If anyone feels they need to talk to me about this then my number is at the bottom of all the latest releases...I will happily talk to all of you and explain this new way forward. Thanks.

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Questions in House of Commons

  • ianw
  • 14/10/08 n/a (free)
  • unspecified
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  • Sun, 02/11/2008 - 08:40

I had read on this site that an MP is planning to rasie a question in the Commons later this week. I've already had two meetings with my MP and would like to ask him if he can be present when the question is asked. I can't find the reference on this website. Please could you let me have details (time for question, name of MP raising question etc) and I'll then write to my MP.

Much appreciate all the excellent hard work by everyone.


debate

  • jenren
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sun, 02/11/2008 - 13:57

as Mikeinfrance says, the debate is on thursday 6th

http://www.parliament.uk/what_s_on/hoc_forthcomingbusiness.cfm

Great that your MP is so involved. Make sure he is present. Please let us know how your meetings go with your MP, it is helpful to know who we have on our side and to know what they are doing. Send a private message to me, Diver, Expat or Sleepless etc if you feel you dont want it broadcast on the site. Maybe we can get our MPs working together? But you may have already done this... keep up the good work.


Commons debate

  • mikeinfrance
  • 12/10/08 28/09/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 02/11/2008 - 13:44

You're probably referring to the debate which is due to be held on 6th Nov at 6PM UK time. I believe there is a forum somewhere on the site with more info.


Tax avoiders - again

  • ianhkhi
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 02/11/2008 - 02:59

Please have a look everyone at this article in today's Guardian newspaper. On second thoughts, those with blood pressure issues had perhaps better not look.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2008/nov/02/icesave-tax-avoidance-savings:


Tax avoiders - again (correction)

  • ianhkhi
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 02/11/2008 - 04:00

Sorry - the above post 'Tax Avoiders - again', please omit colon at the end of the url. So the post should read:

Please have a look everyone at this article in today's Guardian newspaper. On second thoughts, those with blood pressure issues had perhaps better not look.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2008/nov/02/icesave-tax-avoidance-savings


poor, poor journalism

  • IanAbroad
  • 11/10/08 13/08/09
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  • Sun, 02/11/2008 - 09:51

it is so bad as to not warrant comment, except for the fact some people may read it and believe it is true.
I have already stopped reading the Times due to incorrect reporting, now I can add the Guardian.


Tax avoiders - again

  • dclf1947
  • 10/10/08 31/08/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 02/11/2008 - 04:21

I think this needs a letter to them stating that we are not asking for tax payers help, all we ask is that the UK give back the money that the KSF (IOM) had put in the UK.


That's not all

  • richiyeh
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 02/11/2008 - 07:31

Like many others you are under the impression that all we need back is the £550m frozen (or whatever) in the UK. But there is about £200m unaccounted for and probably in Iceland. To make us whole, we are going to need Iceland to cough up, or for the UK or IOM to step in and guarantee this part of the funds...


Not actually correct

  • Diver
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Sun, 02/11/2008 - 08:54

If you take a look at the Balance Sheet for KSFIOM as at 30/9/08 you'll see that net exposure to Iceland was in fact only around £10m (the Parent had deposits with us as well). The bulk of assets were the £557m held in the UK as well as the Loan book valued at £410m. There were also deposits of £182m with external banks of which I believe we have recovered £103m to date.

If you assume that a liability of £164m to KSFUK (that appears on the BS) has rights of offset then we are left with a net exposure to the UK of £393m which is still crucial. Our exposure to Iceland is negligible when stacked against this and the loan book value.


Private Eye

  • richiyeh
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 28/10/2008 - 12:04

Just wondered if you guys had thought of contacting Private Eye magazine. They are anti Establishment (arguably anti just about everything) and I bet would run our story. Their circulation is small but quite influential. I don't mind contacting them myself but what are your views?


private eye

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Tue, 28/10/2008 - 12:11

They have been contacted


US news agencies

  • mrken30
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 13:54

Did anyone contact any US news agencies? They are normally quite interested in Brit news


nexus

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 17:10

Has anyone tried Nexus magazine. ( the Magazine for expats that was showing KSF IOM in its savings tables up to October)
I have emailed them but no response as yet.
Maybe not the correct email heres another.
expats(?)expatnetwork [dot] com


Re: US News Agencies

  • Diver
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 15:23

I did a 40 minute interview for the New York Times last Friday. Not sure when the piece will be out (or if it's out already) as it was part of a bigger investigative piece to do with the falling out between the UK and Iceland.


New York Times

  • jkk
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 02/11/2008 - 10:33

Yes

  • Diver
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 02/11/2008 - 11:06

Very disappointing coverage for us but then I did know the journalist was looking for angles on the UK v Iceland battle rather than us. Still, any publicity is good and if it starts to focus overseas attention on how badly the UK government screwed up then I guess it helps.


Kaupthing to Sue UK Government

  • MissP
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 28/10/2008 - 08:28

Not sure if it will be of any benefit but will anyone from the London Team be contacting the London law firm Kaupthing hf, has now hired to sue the UK Government, Grundberg Mocatta Rakison, to make them aware of our plight.


Legal

  • Diver
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 28/10/2008 - 12:23

We have already had contact with these guys. No news to update you with but there have been conversations with the partners involved.


TUESDAY'S TASKS ??

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Tue, 28/10/2008 - 07:54

All the highlighted "IMPORTANT, PLEASE SEE" topics and instructions seem to have been sitting there for days.

What, please, are TODAY'S tasks for the troops ?


Have you done this?

  • mikeinfrance
  • 12/10/08 28/09/09
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 16:06

Have you e-mailed the treasury? see "Reply From HM Treasury" forum
Have you e-mailed conservatives abroad? see:"CONSERVATIVE PARTY ASK FOR CONTACT FROM EXPATS AFFECTED BY ICELANDIC" forum

etc etc...


TAX

  • mandy hughes
  • 15/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sun, 26/10/2008 - 18:17

If we all proved we had paid tax on our savings to the relevant countries perhaps the authorities would be more sympathetic to our cause and pay out. I'm willing. Is everyone else? Its because they want to get rid of off-shore banking that this has happened. So all you tax evaders are partly to blame


Speak for yourself

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 15:58

Speak for yourself from your own position of ignorance please.


Statement from Mandy

  • Mrs Not Too Happy
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 15:53

Where did that statement come from ?

I'll punch her face in if I get hold of her. That's not needed here


offensive Mandy

  • mikeinfrance
  • 12/10/08 28/09/09
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  • Fri, 31/10/2008 - 15:40

We don't need these ill-informed and highly offensive statements here !!!


Tax

  • macow52
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Thu, 30/10/2008 - 14:07

I for one can certainly prove I have paid tax and declared my savings in the Derbyshire/KSF to the relevant tax authorities


That's pretty offensive

  • Captain Mainwaring
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Mon, 27/10/2008 - 14:42

That's pretty offensive Mandy. You really need to understand about tax liability and living overseas, not to mention double taxation agreements before you make such a statement. What about those of us who pay tax in two or more countries? does that count for anything. From a NON tax evader.


TAX

  • scotty
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Mon, 27/10/2008 - 14:26

Regarding the issue of TAX, the monies I had on deposit were as a result of selling my company in April, we took the money we received having worked hard in the UK to build a company that paid all its taxes and employed people and paid their N.I. We deposited the money in KSF ahead of us actually paying tax on the money we got, this is due in January 09, what I'm supposed to pay that with I have no idea, we did not do this to escape TAX, we put it in a fixed term deposit account to earn interest and would be paying the TAX on the proceeds and the interest next year.

Regards


Tax

  • jeffh.cruncher
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sun, 26/10/2008 - 21:17

This is irrelevant because due the European Union tax directive all EU residents have to pay tax on, so called, 'offshore' savings interest accrued in the IOM & channel Islands. All 3 islands cooperate fully & have agreed to be bound by this tax directive. Therefore they can not be called tax havens. If you live outside the EU that's different. I live in Guernsey & I still have to declare any interest on savings where ever it accrues in the world to the Guernsey income tax authority. My point is, if EU residents don't declare IOM income, then the UK IR will have info supplied by the IOM anyway.

So Ms Hughes point seems to be a bit of a red herring. The fact that the UK & other EU countries are now paid tax from the IOM & channel islands (In fact they even collect tax for the EU) hopefully strengthens our case for 100% of our deposits to be returned. It also shows how cooperative these British Islands have become & one could argue thet their banks are effectively British/EU banks. Any other opinions?


Dear Madam...

  • Lucky Jim
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • not a depositor
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  • Sun, 26/10/2008 - 20:14

Hi! People here are inclined to react angrily to misinformed comments like yours, so please understand how they feel having had their life savings arbitrarily removed by HM Government.

The simple fact is a British expat can not open a bank account in the UK. An off-shore account is the only option for most people. Opening such an account involves a procedure that requires all interest to be declared to their tax authority and the tax authority is informed by the bank of that interest. So you see, Madam, it is legally impossible for a depositor to either avoid or evade paying taxes.

I am a British expat; I pay tax on my pension in the UK but do not receive any benefits from doing so because I do not live in the UK. I also pay taxes in the Country where I live! After paying taxes my net income is on the same level as someone in the UK claiming supplementary benefit.

I do hope now that you will understand the reality of the situation & that maybe you will empathise with the terrible predicament faced by thousands of people, many of whom have lost their pensions & their homes becasue of a dreadful mistake made by the Government.

It would be lovely if you now felt able to support us to put right this horrendous injustice.


Thanks, a great step forward

  • go mann
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 26/10/2008 - 18:21

Thanks Mandy , a great step forward there. A fine analysis of an International Banking Crisis, garnished by ignorance and prejudice.

It might take a clerk in the UK about 3 minutes to discover my UK NI number, and then find out how much tax I pay in the UK every year.


BIG REQUEST

  • sgebbett
  • 20/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 26/10/2008 - 15:19

Agree very much with central PR strategy and you are all doing a great job. I have , however, had very helpful and regular dialogue with Alice Ross of the FT, and she has published two excellent articles over the last two Saturdays, so If its OK with you, I will maintain contact with her.


FT

  • pwakeham
  • 20/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 27/10/2008 - 10:19

FYI I have spoken with David Ibison in Rejkavik who was most helpful. He is the one who ferreted out the transcript between Alistair Darling and Arne M. If you need support with FT let me know. I know a few guys there well.


please do i built a

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 26/10/2008 - 18:55

please do i built a reasonable relationship with andy bounds of the ft i hope he writes a piece keep me informed please


Sure

  • Diver
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Sun, 26/10/2008 - 15:31

Anyone with existing personal contact with the press should definitely continue to nurture that relationship. All we are asking is that general discussions with the press be left to the centralised teams.


media coverage

  • banna
  • 15/10/08 01/03/10
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 26/10/2008 - 11:48

Greetings Diver.
Several comments have been made that we ought to try to get HM Opposition taking up our case. A problem with Osborne/Deripaska/Mandelson being much more exciting. But worth continuing to try : have we any way of trying to interest Amanda Platell (Daily Mail), Hague's former Press woman? Or Bernard Ingram - same role for Margaret Thatcher - or Bell who I think worked for the Tory Party?
As we're in this for the long haul have we tried Panorama (BBC)? or Paxman who would be very happy to throw out a few interesting questions if we could get him to see our problem?
You suggested we should continue to contact MP's and politicians. Do we have a list of MP's already contacted and therefore those who still need to receive the message?
I suspect the Select Committee are drowning in questions from us. Are we sure they've received the right questions?


Re:Media coverage

  • Diver
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 26/10/2008 - 15:36

We are exploring all avenues into the media including Today, Newsnight and all well known columnists. As far as MPs go I think they have all been sent messages but we're more than happy for the same ones to get more messages sent to them and more questions asked. Personally I'm not too bothered if they get upset...it's their job to hold the government accountable and they're failing to do so at the moment.

You will see a posting regarding the select committee and questions being put to it on this site later.


just tokeep you all informed

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 26/10/2008 - 11:32

just tokeep you all informed driver and i just had a long talk before that message went out, its iom view as well
perhaps somebody with a better laptop tha my littlwe thing ould be so good as to collect anything about the fsa/fsc actions into a new section for analysis
also anything we have about the ksf london branch would be usefull run or not run that is the question!!
thanks


Finding a Pin

  • BustedFlat
  • 20/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 26/10/2008 - 06:57

Yes, sending tons of unsolicited emails out will eventually lead to it being ignored. I think the initial rush for recognition is somehow over, ending with a small respite for us in the form of an adjournment at the high court on Friday.

Now it's a case of finding direction. Something I think we may be missing is a 'Pin' (or more than one) - that's someone with some serious political, legal or media influence who is really interested to see this issue through - and whom depositors can put their energies behind and channel information to.


I support the London team

  • IdealisticRealist
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sun, 26/10/2008 - 04:17

The suggestion that we should limit our emails to the UK press at this time is a sensible one.

However, Jonathan Russell must be exempted from this: that article shows a fundamental lack of research and understanding and I intend to write to him later today as set out below. I won't do this for another 4 hours or so, so if anyone objects, please let me know before then. Before anyone protests that it is not just British Expats but IoM savers and UK residents that have lost money (as well as many non-Brits I imagine), the reason I have not mentioned them is that it is the Telegraph. They are only concerned about the UK and the idea is to appeal to their own particular bias.


Dear Mr Russell

I refer to your article on The Telegraph Online, which is apparently last updated on 24 October 2008 (repeated below for the sake of certainty).

Before opening your mouth on this subject again, please do your research. Even better, you should print a correction. UK nationals living abroad cannot open onshore accounts. I had £65,000 in Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander Isle of Man, all of which was earned onshore in the UK (and therefore taxed) and used to pay off my mortgage on where Iived in London. I now work in Japan, and when I sold my UK residence, I had no option but to deposit the proceeds of sale into an offshore account because no UK onshore bank would allow me to open an account there.

The same is true for thousands of British expats abroad. They are not trying to avoid tax, but simply saving the money they earn in the only sterling accounts available to them: those on the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands. These people are ordinary workers (teachers, Red Cross workers, the British military, civil service employees and so on) and they deserve the protection of their government just as much as anyone.

The real story here is that that UK government has frozen money held by KSF UK using anti-terrorist legislation, when that money belongs to KSF IoM and the many of the British expat depositors referred to above. The UK government is intending to use this money to compensate depositors in KSF UK (instead of fulfilling its promises in that regard by using UK government money). In other words, the UK government has expropriated the deposits of thousands of British expats in order to fulfil its promises to other British citizens. The British depositors in KSF UK should be protected, but so should the British depositors in KSF IoM, particularly in circumstances where it is the British depositors in KSF IoM whose money is being used! British expats represent the United Kingdom abroad, some of them in a direct manner by serving the Crown itself. Now they are being robbed by the very country they were hitherto proud to represent overseas.

More information about this can be found at www.ksfdepositors.org or indeed numerous other newspaper articles that have been written on the subject. See for example: http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2008/oct/18/savings-familyfinance

Yours sincerely


Positioning

  • pwakeham
  • 20/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Mon, 27/10/2008 - 10:27

I think it is important to keep emphasising that we are British citizens, some resident, some not, plus many of the affected are pensioners who are not on PAYE and therefore invest for gross cash returns and pay tax later. I know there are IOM citizens involved and that is positive for us all because the IOM Government stays focussed by I think the UK media need simple facts.

In practice, as you write, citizenship is irrelevant if someone steals money to fund another cause - I think the name Mugabe comes to mind.


Overreacting?

  • DXB
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 26/10/2008 - 06:44

Russell's piece was probably a tongue-in-cheek vignette (check out the closing line - we are supposed to be banking onshire with, er, which bank exactly?).
Let's not overreact and save our ammo for real cases of mis-reporting in the serious opinion pieces.


Over-reaction!

  • Peasant
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 26/10/2008 - 20:28

I agree, the irony of the last paragraph Hmm, if you are a UK citizen and have paid your taxes why not keep the money onshore in a trustworthy bank such as, er... was possibly too subtle for many Telegraph readers.


OK

  • IdealisticRealist
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sun, 26/10/2008 - 09:09

I think I'll let this one go in the interests of not making enemies. But, if another journalist writes a more detailed piece along these lines, he should get both barrels. Would the London Team agree that negative reporting of our plight might be an exception? Perhaps the London Team should provide periodic updates on the extent of the press coverage and whether there has been negative press (and the action required). A daily round-up of all the press would also be useful. Is anyone able to do this?


re. russel

  • gbod
  • 11/10/08 01/09/12
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 26/10/2008 - 05:52

pls. do this and cc to all other tabloids


Japan

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Sun, 26/10/2008 - 04:50

Heh! Get in touch. steenJp from Maebashi


Here's one journalist needing writing to?

  • ianhkhi
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 26/10/2008 - 04:48

Idealistic Realist,

No objection - full support.

I was thinking along the same lines - that Mr. Russell's (and the Telegraph's?) - total lack of professionalism is egregious and that he/they are deserving of bombardment.

May I suggest that you pump up the closing of your message to Mr. Russell a bit? Something along the lines of... "In my own small corner of the world, Mr. Russell, if any one of us made assertions anywhere near the significance of yours without first checking the facts, we'd be out on our ears in five very short minutes."

Go for it.


STOP SENDING EMAILS REQUEST FROM THE LONDON TEAM

  • calpespain
  • 12/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 23:05

Okay and, Absolutely, you are so RIGHT, and as you have led us this far with great courage and great skill, naturally we will be guided by you once more. BUT should you require us to bombard them again,, just tell us all and we'll be off the block again. But that said, we are now even more reliant on you guys.

All the best to a full and speedy recover of our stolen money


Some media people need educating or is it a sick joke- Telegraph

  • 5928
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 19:00

Despite the interest of Jeff Randall I am upset by an article from Jonathon [dot] Russell(?)telegraph [dot] co [dot] uk which goes :

Offshore depositors have to take the rap

LOTS of pain from depositors in failed Icelandic banks' offshore subsidiaries such as Landsbanki Guernsey.
So far the UK Government has refused to extend the 100pc deposit guarantee to the unfortunate account holders. An estimated £1bn of deposits could be lost.
The situation has even spawned a rap, currently doing the rounds on YouTube. "Landsbanki Guernsey give me back my 100pc, "sings Icy Chill (aka 50 Pence perhaps?) "Give us back our rights. I am a UK citizen, worked hard and paid my taxes."
Hmm, if you are a UK citizen and have paid your taxes why not keep the money onshore in a trustworthy bank such as, er...


Telegraph article link

  • Daughter
  • 17/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sat, 25/10/2008 - 19:26

Would you happen to have the link to this article please?


Jonathon Russell URL

  • 5928
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline