Any update from the liquidator???

  • Noodle 2
  • 15/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
Posted: Thu, 16/10/2008 - 06:08

Did I see somewhere during Thursday's posts that the Liquidator was expected to make a statement tomorrow (Friday)? That might enlighten us all on the status of the 'in flight' transactions, his intentions re them, whether there is an issue re cut-off time for attempted transfers issue which determines whether transfers can be released to depositors or have to be repatriated to IOM; and also what assets of KSFIOM he can really put his hands on.

I agree with whoever said that the best solution for ALL of us would be if a nice rich investor came and bought KSFIOM so we had business as usual (like ING sale in the UK).

0
Your rating: None

Comment viewing options
Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Mike Simpson : PWC : What does "UNFREEZE THEM" mean ?

  • MichaelB
  • 16/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Thu, 16/10/2008 - 19:18

Mike Simpson : PWC : What does "UNFREEZE THEM" mean ?

Has everybody read this ?

http://www.kaupthingsingers.co.uk/Pages/3988

maybe some hope yet for us ?

What does "UNFREEZE THEM" mean

Any ideas

Transfers in transit
There are a large number of transfers which left the bank but which have not reached their intended destinations as they have been frozen in the clearing system. I am in the process of trying to determine where they are in the system in an attempt to unfreeze them. I will advise further as soon as I am able.

" I understand that this situation is most distressing for depositors and I will use this website to update depositors periodically on the progress of the liquidation. However, please be patient as some matters such as commercial negotiations will necessarily have to take place in private. "

Mike Simpson
Liquidator Provisionally of Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander (Isle of Man) Limited


Leaving money in the bank

  • Julienne
  • 16/10/08 31/08/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 16/10/2008 - 15:52

We agree that the comments of Neil & kiwi are very sensible. What we all ultimately want is our money - we have an investment and we still WANT an investment. If the liquidatore can sell a 'going concern' it is the best solution for all of us.
We would vote for 50% for 18 or 24 months with that guarantee!!


Let's give ourselves a chance...

  • ItsTheft
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 16/10/2008 - 15:05

A couple cold hard facts:

1 - Note various (correct) posts about basics of banking (e.g. there is no vault with our cash in it). All of us insisting that someone pay all of our deposits right away is not a good approach. No bank would be able to service this demand (even if there were not a world financial crisis). Not even the biggies. Neither can IOM Gov or Iceland. It isn't going to happen because no one can afford to pay it. This hed mentality isn't going to get us what we want.

2 - Legal action is a mistake, partly because of point 1 above, and partly because legally, a liquidated company will only pay out what it has in the coffers (and can make from selling scraps, etc.). That's it. Who are you going to sue? A foreign Gov? What if they can't afford it? Also, class action law suits can easily run for 4 years, thus delaying any compensation from IoM FSC DPS. I know because I was part of a class action against a liquidated company for unpaid wages, etc. I took 4 years, and we only got a portion of what was owed to us. And the sums were much, much smaller. Oh, and the liquidator was... PWC!

I realise there is little support for my original plan, but if a large enough group of people were willing to commit to leaving their cash in a KSF IOM deposit account for a fixed period of time, then the liquidator has an asset they can sell to a real bank. Which is really what we want. I am going to suggest to the liquidator that tehy pole the depositors and consider asking for volunteers for such a scheme.


leaving money with Bank

  • kiwi38
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Thu, 16/10/2008 - 15:14

Neal - I for one would support such a plan and I know many others have passed the same comment over the past 5 days. I think your idea of a poll on the side of the screen is a good one. Leaving in 100% is probably unrealistic for most and for some they need all but obviously any committment would need to be a group committment with exceptions only in the case of extreme hardship. Maybe the poll should ask people to vote to leaving in:
- 100%
- 75%
- 50% (any less than this is probably a waste of time)

Also the term:
- 12 months
- 18 months
- 24 months

If we get a general indication of what we as a group maybe prepared to leave behind in return for the 100% safety of our funds then we give the liquidator something to work with.


I'm O.K. with leaving %50

  • golightly
  • 14/10/08 28/08/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 16/10/2008 - 15:34

if this could ensure I get 50% now rather than nothing !


Leaving some money in the bank

  • ItsTheft
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 16/10/2008 - 15:21

Kiwi,

Thanks for your reply. I agree that a poll and perhaps a topic would be worth doing. I will get in touch with Matt and ask him if we can put something together.

Also agree that not everyone would be able leave all or even some money in, hence asking the liquidator to make it a voluntary scheme. At the very least this plan could reduce the size of the demand for instant payout thus making it a more manageable problem. As I've said, I think what we are asking for is unrealistic. Not sure someone like even Santander would or could meet the instant withdrawal demand of 10,000 depositors...

I really believe we need to concentrate our efforts on helping the liquidator, IoM FSC, etc. find a solution rather than just putting an impossible problem at their door.


Leaving some money in the bank

  • ItsTheft
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 16/10/2008 - 15:21

Kiwi,

Thanks for your reply. I agree that a poll and perhaps a topic would be worth doing. I will get in touch with Matt and ask him if we can put something together.

Also agree that not everyone would be able leave all or even some money in, hence asking the liquidator to make it a voluntary scheme. At the very least this plan could reduce the size of the demand for instant payout thus making it a more manageable problem. As I've said, I think what we are asking for is unrealistic. Not sure someone like even Santander would or could meet the instant withdrawal demand of 10,000 depositors...

I really believe we need to concentrate our efforts on helping the liquidator, IoM FSC, etc. find a solution rather than just putting an impossible problem at their door.


leaving money with Bank

  • Consuelo
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 16/10/2008 - 15:19

If this information will assist the Provisional liquidator I am all in favour of your idea Neil and kiwi38


Taken from KS&F IOM website

  • Todd
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 16/10/2008 - 14:54

15 October 2008
Since I was appointed Liquidator Provisionally on 9 October 2008, my primary focus has been on trying to take control of and safeguard the assets of the company.

Communication?
I know that all depositors are very worried about the status of their deposits. The bank, the Financial Supervision Commission and my office have been swamped with telephone calls, emails, faxes and mail seeking information. This has created serious practical difficulties, and I know that many of you were not able to get through on the telephone and/or have not yet had replies to your queries. I am sorry that this was the case, however, the number of telephone calls particularly has been unprecedented. The telephone system at the bank is now up and running and a team of bank staff are answering calls between 9am and 5pm. If you are unable to get through, please bear with us and try again later. Staff are also working through the backlog of emails, faxes and letters.

Going forward, the best way to make contact is to write to the bank or to email branch(?)kaupthing [dot] com. If you need to telephone the bank, please use the main switchboard number +44 1624 699222.

Assets
My main responsibility as Liquidator Provisionally is to try and assume control of the company’s assets. To this end I have:

Taken control of bank balances totalling approximately £103,000,000 which are held with banks outside the group
Contacted the Administrators of Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander Limited (the UK bank) with the purpose of recovering the assets which are with them. I have also instructed UK lawyers to assist me if necessary
Instructed lawyers in Iceland with a view to enforcing the parental guarantee

Potential purchasers of assets
I have received a number of enquiries from parties who have expressed an interest in purchasing parts of the business. Some have expressed an interest in the customer deposits, however, the main interest has been in the loan book. I have already met with five of these parties and will be meeting more over the course of the next few days. It is still very early days and expressions of interest are a long way from making an offer. However I am pursuing these expressions of interest as a matter of great urgency.

Transfers in transit
There are a large number of transfers which left the bank but which have not reached their intended destinations as they have been frozen in the clearing system. I am in the process of trying to determine where they are in the system in an attempt to unfreeze them. I will advise further as soon as I am able.

I understand that this situation is most distressing for depositors and I will use this website to update depositors periodically on the progress of the liquidation. However, please be patient as some matters such as commercial negotiations will necessarily have to take place in private.

Mike Simpson
Liquidator Provisionally of Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander (Isle of Man) Limited


Contact with KSF

  • Jean-Charles Marlier
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 16/10/2008 - 14:49

Just wanted to let you know that I managed to speak to a lady a few hours ago at KSF office regarding the latest news from their side,and she answered that the Liquidator had been approached by 3 different "might" be interested buyers of KFS,Isle Of Man,and hoped that she would be able to say more within the coming week,whether it comes to anything constructive,God only knows,we just have to "pray and hope for the best".
Jean-Charles


Liquidator's update dated 15th October

  • gerry paul johnson
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 16/10/2008 - 12:49

The latest update from the liquidator can be seen on the Kaupthing web page. Makes encouraging reading


Liquidator - Oct 15 statement

  • Lostinspace
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 16/10/2008 - 12:46

Yes, check this out: 103m back so far, and counting.....

http://www.kaupthingsingers.co.uk/Pages/3988


..more than 5 interested buyers of the KSF IOM business...

  • neilbkk
  • 10/10/08 08/06/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 16/10/2008 - 13:11

reported also in this statement from LP this IS good news. The only realistic way for all our money to be returned is for the business to resume as a going concern.

It would be interesting to know or have an indication which savers are with in the GBP50,000 compensation from IOM government and those above that...what do people think ...simple nickname change ie add suffix <50k or >50k to their name on the site...sorry this is going of topic.


Liquidator

  • IanAbroad
  • 11/10/08 13/08/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 16/10/2008 - 13:04

I may be wrong, but £100m is approx 13% of the £840m deposited. He still has some way to go. We can not relax.


agree - 13% is a drop in the bucket

  • kiwi38
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Thu, 16/10/2008 - 13:15

I agree the funds recovered to date are minimal however if this is the "cash" element as was initially outlined then he has done pretty well if 60% is with Kaupthing UK and a further 25% is in a normal commercial loan book. This totals almost 98%. I guess the big remaining issues are will KSF IOM get all cash back from the UK (it is politically unpalatable to think this won't happen) and what value is the KSF IOM loan book as you can bet that the parties looking at this will want to buy it at a deep discount. Then we are back to the UK Govt acting on behalf of the IOM to force Iceland to honour the rest under the PG.

It would be nice to hear some more hard facts re the above as I am only guessing. If the above is the real situation then the potential non recoverable amount is fairly small which leads me all the way back to my statement that the IOM Govt should step in now, backed by the UK, to issue a 100% g'tee. Remove the panic, stop funds leaving the island and come out looking like a hero. As I posted late last night they could easily justify imposing a "security levy" on all banks from this day forward to provide a proper fund. It seems so simple but I guess I have a vested interest and tend to deal in black and white while I am sure there is a lot of "grey" going on behind the scenes.


liquidator update

  • occams razor
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 16/10/2008 - 13:11

"Some have expressed an interest in the customer deposits, however, the main interest has been in the loan book"

Hmmmm... that doesn't sound so positive...


dont worry too much about this...

  • HOPPER
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Thu, 16/10/2008 - 13:20

this is because the loan book is easy to value, secured on assets (property etc).
it is tough to value a deposit business when,
1. the deposits may have vanished, at least in part
2. as soon as they can, a fair chunk of the current customers (you, me etc) are going to get our money as far away from the isle of man as possible
ie. tough to value this part of the business


banking 101

  • neilbkk
  • 10/10/08 08/06/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 16/10/2008 - 13:25

deposits dont vanish....you give your money to a bank they lend it out at an interest rate partly returned to the depositor ie Us. usually not all customers turn up to get their money out...a run on the bank of course is dire since of course the bank does never have all the money it has on deposit available..... this applies to EVERY bank in the world.

Sorry for the lesson in basic banking 101 ... I dont mean to teach anyone to suck eggs''


deposits

  • HOPPER
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Thu, 16/10/2008 - 15:13

sorry,
yes, vanish is the wrong word. what I mean to imply is that it is difficult to value a retail customer base in a bank like ours right now. by vanish what i mean is that we might not get back 100p in the £ (in terms of our deposits). many reasons (maybe the KSFIOM deposits were on-loaned to the Icelandic parent, we simply do not know). The ING Direct purchase of UK Kaupthing Edge is a good example. I have taken a quick look at these and from what I can see, in the documents which are publicly available, you can see that ING paid £5m for the business. Basically, the UK Treasury gave ING cash to cover all the deposits of the 300,000 or so customers, less £5m (representing the purchase price). The Treasury gte made the deal doable in a very quick timeframe. We don't have that right now in our situation. It does not mean that we will not get bought, it just means that it will take more time& be more complicated


that is in fact positive news. the book is worth lots to a buyer

  • neilbkk
  • 10/10/08 08/06/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 16/10/2008 - 13:20

Hi OccamRazor..

The loan book does have value its the core of the business and it is positive news for us... the loan book gives future income streams along with profit where the debtors owe us the original borrowing along with interest [yes profit] those on this site that had bonds and term deposits get their money back from these continuing loan repayments monthly yearly and on other time periods...they STILL will be paying their loans to us even though KSF IOM is in administration. I am not an expert but know enough about the business.

PS Yes the simplest solution is usually the best ;-)


clarify

  • occams razor
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 16/10/2008 - 13:24

OK, seems I didn't interpret it correctly... thanks for clarifying.


Occams, this is good news.

  • thesunnysouth
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Thu, 16/10/2008 - 14:03

o,
On a scale of 1 to 10 this is fairly near the top of good news stories over the last wek. The bail ouy scheme was up to £50K. This report suggests that about 12% of cash is readily available which means an interim payout. Secondly the loan book is that good that there are several people interested in buying it. This would suggest that those funds we would need to sell off are quite healthy. Lastly the momey in the UK KSF is being tracked down and again that is our money and recoverable. All this is not speculation but from PWC. It is a matter of ganging in there, keeping the pressure up and waiting for the experts such as Mr Simpson to do their job. I am really hopeful know that over the course of this weekend this matter will near resolution.
We need as many depositors on this site as possible to read this as it does give hope.