Add your comments to MPs statements made in Parliament

  • dj
  • 07/11/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
Posted: Tue, 31/03/2009 - 06:00

The They Work For You website allows users to add their comments to statements made by MP's - including our friend Mr Ian Pearson! There are a few comments but it would be useful if many of us added our own ones as well - i have added one so far.

One thing that did interest me is that hardly ANY MP's have raised the matter in the House of Commons. So much for all the sympathetic sounds we get from 'concerned' MP's. They actually dont give a damn!

Here are some links to the KSF IoM issues that have been discussed in Parliament to help get you going. You have to Join, but it is very quick and easy, click the Join button in the top right of the page.

Some links:-

Did FSA insist that Derbyshire consult its depositors before the selloff

Does the Treasury ever intend to reply to us

What discussions between the UK and IoM has there been

What discussions between the UK and IoM has there been (again!)

Will the chancellor help ex-Derbyshire depositors

How much would it cost to guarantee IoM deposits of upto £100K

Did the FSA talk to Derbyshire before it conned its depositors

How many people affected by KSF IoM collapse

What did the PM do to help the KSF IoM debacle

Just when is the Treasury going to respond!

Did the Government misuse anti-terror legislation

How much has all this cost the tax payer then

No go on, really how much has it all cost so far

What progress has there been between the Uk and Iceland in getting this mess sorted

What about the IoM Kaupthing savers the UK liquidation affected

So, there in a nutshell are all that has been discussed about us in Parliament. Some have been commented on but we need many more comments. I know from email conversations with some more helpful MP's that the site is used by MP's and so the comments you write WILL be read. So the more the better!

4.95238
Your rating: None Average: 5 (21 votes)

Comment viewing options
Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

@expat13 - not given up

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 07/07/2009 - 17:57

Hi expat13,

Since I can't reply directly to your blog (http://chat.ksfiomdepositors.org/blog-entry/plea-support), I'm doing so here.

I'm glad you haven't given up! However, I don't altogether agree that the ONLY thing we can do now is to discredit the IoM. Despite the apparent lack of notice, I feel we must also continue to keep up the pressure on HMG - they really do bear a heavy responsibility for our plight.

So I hope, if you haven't already done so, you will add to the growing list of comments on TWFY website. I am told that MPs and the media do follow this site - anything we can do to embarrass HM Treasury cannot come amiss - and who knows, one day ..... Most of the answers to questions in Parliament get very few if any comments. We now have over 80 "no" votes and upwards of 50 comments. So maybe someone WILL take notice?


So few people

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sat, 11/07/2009 - 22:10

So few people have even pressed the vote buttons I wonder why?


@anrigaut

  • icdbrazil
  • 10/10/08 30/11/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 07/07/2009 - 18:17

IMO your comment ´we must also continue to keep up the pressure on HMG - they really do bear a heavy responsibility for our plight.´ absolutely correct. This is essential.

I believe we should avoid slagging off the IOM generally, and concentrate on the issues directly related to our plight. Attentioning others to IOM´s shortcomings as a financial centre are valid as a means of drawing attention to our plight, and to impress on the IOM that they need to solve the problem (100%) in order to be considered World Class and maintain / grow their financial centre status.

IOM shortcomings were essentially. a) A regulatory failure through inappropriate action (taken in liason with the FSA!) to protect savers monies, when, knowing of the increasing Icelandic risk, they blindly deposited with KSF UK without ringfencing. b) They did not pursue HMG regarding their triggering of the debacle and FSA´s failure to communicate. c) Their attempts to sell an SOA designed to protect their interests.

Lets keep pressuring HMG


@icdbrazil

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 07/07/2009 - 18:37

Thanks for the support - and well put. I agree!

Let's keep up the pressure.


Public Enquiry - Next Steps

  • oliverdominic
  • 20/01/09 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 06/07/2009 - 11:26

It is unlikely that this Labour government will hold a public enquiry but if we can get the Tories and the Lib Dems to commit to doing so after the next election it may result in Labour doing it instead. Remember the way Labour reacted to the Tories plan to bump the Inheritance Tax up to a million? They promptly jumped it up to 600K. Lib Dem shadow chancellor Vince Cable would be the best MP to propose this in the House.


Treasury 'Annotations' - update

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Fri, 03/07/2009 - 10:08

Thanks folks to all who have so far commented so pertinently and with admirable self-control on the TheyWorkForYou website re Sarah McCarthy's trite 'reply' to Mark Williams' question about a Public Inquiry. The list is getting quite impressive - but there is still plenty of room for more, so please KEEP IT UP. If you think of something more to add, there's nothing to stop you from adding a second (or 3rd or ...) comment - as at least two of us have already done. It's probably best to keep each separate 'annotation' reasonably short and concise - as has been the case to date.

This was my latest comment:
"Mark Williams is to be congratulated for asking this question. He and the thousands of KSFIOM depositors deprived of access to their hard-earned saving for the last 9 months as a direct result of actions of the British government deserve better than to be fobbed off with the same old dissimulating Treasury spin. I trust he will not give up so easily; the depositors certainly won't.

As all the comments above and those that will surely follow bear witness, the depositors know a great deal and suspect a great deal more of the events in the UK leading to and following the collapse of their bank on that fateful day last October. Have no doubt, Sarah: they will not go away. Sustained by their growing and justifiable anger at the callous indifference shown towards them by your Government, they will pursue this issue relentlessly until they are heard, listened to and answered.

Only a fully independent Public Inquiry will allow the real truth behind this debacle to be brought to light. I submit to you that, whatever the contributory and subsidiary role of the Isle of Man, such an Inquiry is primarily a matter for the United Kingdom. I hope you have the courage and the personal integrity to recognise this, and to stand up and be counted in the name of common decency and justice."

Don't forget you can also email Sarah McCarthy-Fry (Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury) directly at mccarthyfrys(?)parliament [dot] uk

You can also write to Mark Williams (Lib Dem, Ceredigion) to thank him for asking the question and encourage him to continue to support us: WILLIAMSMF(?)parliament [dot] uk (don't be surprised when you get an initial automated reply in Welsh - the English translation follows!).

Finally (because it risks getting lost in the depths), here is the website link again:
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2009-06-30a.282657.h&c=23970#c23970

WE - THE DEPOSITORS - WILL NOT BE SILENCED ! We will not go quietly into the night.


Anyone from Aberytswyth/Ceredigion?

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 27/07/2009 - 13:26

Is anyone a constituent of Mark Williams (Ceredigion)? If so please can you contact me (my contact is enabled) ?

With a lot of pushing (!), the number of "no" votes on the TWFY site in response to Mark's question on our behalf to the Treasury (see my post above) has now crept up to 160, with around 60 very pertinent comments. Could have been a lot more, but not so bad all the same.

The question now is how best to make use of this effort. I've sent the link to Treasury with my latest missile to them but don't hold out much hope there - since they sent out their standard blurb telling me nothing I didn't already know they've simply ignored all follow-up letters to date. But I keep trying...

I wrote to Mark on 3 July thanking him for his support and sending him the TWFY link, but have had no further contact. I'm quite willing to write again, but it might be better if he were to be also (re-)contacted by one of his constituents. I'm presuming that he asked his question in response to a request by one of us? If so, it could help now to do some follow-up. It needs to be stressed that we are asking for an inquiry into the events in the UK leading up to and following the demise of BOTH KSFUK and (as a direct and inevitable consequence) KSFIOM. Unfortunately, Mark's question referred only to KSFIOM leaving the door wide open for Treasury to deny all responsibility (which of course they promptly did!).


Treasury annotations - continued

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Fri, 03/07/2009 - 17:09

Wise words from a politician of a past era:

"It is not what a lawyer tells me I MAY do;
but what humanity, reason and justice tell me I OUGHT to do."
Edmund Burke (1729-1797)

How about it Mr Brown? Is the British sense of justice truly dead and buried?


Clicking NO on the They Work For You site!

  • Hoping and coping
  • 16/10/08 31/07/10
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Fri, 03/07/2009 - 11:30

What superb comments - "annotations" - there are on this site. I added my comment this morning, but have just gone back to click on "NO". (Hadn't figured that bit out before!!)


Superb comments

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 06/07/2009 - 18:19

Yes, superb comments indeed - concise, factual, pertinent and full of dignity; all distinctive but all pointing in the same direction.

Makes me proud to be part of this community that is DAG !

Thanks again folks - keep it up!


Question raised by Mark Williams MP

  • icdbrazil
  • 10/10/08 30/11/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 02/07/2009 - 23:46

FYI I have also written to Mark Williams MP thanking him for his interest / efforts, and informing him of the growing list of comments on the site.

Credit where credit due, he tried. Email address if others wish to do likewise is: WILLIAMSMF(?)parliament [dot] uk

Also as he is Welsh, I pointed the BBC (they were asking for Welsh connections) in his direction.


Thanks for this icdbrazil. I

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Fri, 03/07/2009 - 00:39

Thanks for this icdbrazil. I totally agree. I had been intending to search out his address to do likewise, so now I have it and will write too. Not only to give him credit (which I think is due), but also because it might help him to follow-up on our behalf.


Treasury 'Annotations'

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Fri, 03/07/2009 - 08:19

I too have emailed Mark Williams and posted it on the TheyWorkForYou website.


A simple thing thet EVERYONE who can type can do!

  • Lucky Jim
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • not a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 02/07/2009 - 19:47

Yes, don't let apathy or a feeling of powerlessness take hold of you!

If you can type then you can do 'your bit' by taking every opportunity that come your way to 'have your say' about the huge injustice that has overtaken you. This is one such opportunity:

Here's 'my bit'

I said:
"Sarah McCarthy-Fry says: "Oversight of KSF IOM is the responsibility of the Isle of Man's Financial Supervision Commission and therefore the question of a review would be primarily a matter for the Isle of Man Government."

Sarah dodged the issue reading from the standard script issued by the MoJ & Treasury. HMG can not dodge the KSFIOM debacle by making such a trite statement.

The g20 made it abundantly clear that regulatory failure within and between regulators was a major contributory factor in the international financial crisis. The Prime Minister underscored this saying that the global dimension of regulation was such that internationally regulators should be working to the same rule book & that information on crucial issues should be shared freely between them.

It was the failure of the FSA to follow the Memorandum of Understanding between the FSA & FSC that compounded the failure of the directors & FSC to safeguard over 50% of KSFIOM assets transferred unsecured to KFSUK, knowing as they did that if the Icelandic parent bank failed it would take its sister banks with it".


Thanks Adrienne for your

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 02/07/2009 - 13:59

Thanks Adrienne for your addition to this site.

Another excellent contribution, with one exception (I believe). In your first point, referring to Derbyshire IOM, you say:
"Derbyshire was then sold to a disreputable icelandic bank a year ago with approval from the UK FSA. DESPITE being advised against it, the UK FSA allowed the transaction to happen."

I'm no authority, but my understanding is that Derbyshire IOM was sold to Kaupthing with the approval of FSC and NOT with the approval of FSA (necessarily so, because it was in the jursidiction of the IOM - as Treasury never cease to point out!). It was Singer & Friedlander (in the UK) that was earlier sold to Kaupthing with FSA approval, against the advice of Shearer. The latter was of course one of the events leading - eventually - to meltdown.

If you agree, maybe you could edit your post to put this right; making false claims just makes it easier for 'them' to reject our claims out of hand, without ever adressing the other valid points.


sorry

  • adrienne
  • 10/10/08 13/05/10
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 02/07/2009 - 15:36

I messed up the IT. cant work out how to delete it, and now there are three...


Yes, I saw that and have just

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 02/07/2009 - 16:16

Yes, I saw that and have just emailed you with an idea ...

Updated after email from Adrienne:
Before anyone jumps to conclusions and thinks that an unfriendly DAG member has reported Adrienne's posts on the TheyWorkForYou site as undesirable, the two unwanted (essentially duplicate) posts have been reported by Adrienne herself as there seems no other way to get them removed. Seems they don't get removed immediately though. The 3rd (unreported) one is the 'correct' one!


Treasury response in Parliament

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Wed, 01/07/2009 - 10:44

I have just added the following comment on the They Work for You site to a negative and evasive response by Sarah McCarthy -Fry (Treasury) to a question from Mark Williams (Lib Dem, Ceredigion) about a possible inquiry into the failure of KSFIOM (will post more on Replies from MPs thread). This was my comment:

"As with previous Treasury responses to questions about KSFIOM, this reply avoids the real issue. Yes, the oversight of KSFIOM is the responsibility of the IOM FSC. BUT - and this is a very big but - the events leading to its failure undoubtedly began in the UK when KSFUK was put into administration with no warning to the FSC and apparently with no consideration of the effect this would have on its sister bank in the IOM and its hapless depositors. So an inquiry in the UK seems totally justified."

Maybe others could contribute. On reflection I should perhaps have added that KSFIOM did not 'fail' but was brought down by the actions of HMG.


WHERE ARE YOU ALLl? This is

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Wed, 01/07/2009 - 19:24

WHERE ARE YOU ALLl?

This is something we can ALL do NOW! And it's so simple :
- much easier than chaining yourself to a fence
- much cheaper than travelling to the IOM
- much less effort than writing a long letter
- much easier than filling in KSF's proxy and claim forms and/or applying for the DC
- and certainly much easier than understanding the fiendishly complex, now deceased, SoA.

So what are you waiting for? Since my post this morning, only one person has taken the trouble to act on this (thanks Bellyup).

Some (many?) of us responded to the DST request to contact MPs to ask for a public enquiry (or should it be inquiry - I never know!). The first MP to have done this appears to be Mark Williams (Lib Dem, Ceredigion). Well done whoever wrote to him. He stuck out his neck for us and was brushed off like an irritating fly. We owe it to him (as well as to ourselves) to REACT. Not two of us, but 2000 of us! We should be overwhelming Hansard with our comments.

Here's the link: http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2009-06-30a.282657.h&c=23970#c23970

PLEASE DO IT NOW!


At the risk of

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 02/07/2009 - 14:07

Sounding like Delia Smith urging on Norwich City ...................

Lets be having you!

23 people have commented there are 2700+ registered on this site say something it YOUR MONEY TOO!

I cant believe that apathy kick yourselves in the pants and write something.!


Thanks Delia ...

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 02/07/2009 - 14:22

... and of these 23 people (24 now because I just clicked!) who have said they don't think she answered the question, still only 14 have actually added a Comment "(ANOTATION") below. Takes a LITTLE more time and effort, but not much (details on how to do it below - or above ?). It can be brief and under a pseudo - but will carry much more weight than just a simple vote.

So PLEEEEEASE ..... DO IT !! Or have you all gone to the beach?

And if you can also send an email to Sarah McCarthy-Fry (mccarthyfrys(?)parliament [dot] uk), so much the better. We should try to flood her in-box. As someone who's only been in her job at the Treasury for 2 weeks, she might have a shock!


Treasury reply to comment

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 02/07/2009 - 06:12

Posted on 2 Jul 2009 7:01 am

It seems that the urge to 'type the trite' came to Ms McCarthy-Fry before she gave herself time to properly understand the question. The Treasury is so keen to distance itself from its role in instigating this sorry debacle that it rolls out this worn quip on every occasion that a concientious person seeks a comprehensive answer to this very serious situation.

The main thrust of Mark William's question relates to the events leading to the failure of KSFIoM. The bank did not fail of its own accord, its demise was a direct consequence of action brought about by Her Majesty's Government - primarily instigated by the Chancellor himself.

The Chancellor took the precaution of fully protecting UK Edge customers in the process of bringing down the Kaupthing UK branch of the bank, otherwise he would have had 170,000 UK savers rioting in the streets for the actions he took against Kaupthing UK. Had these savers been offered only basic compensation there would have been hell to pay, but given their relieved position, Darling has not been subject to a barrage of questions from this sector.

Conversley, it was quite 'OK' for Alistair Darling to callously disregard the consequential impact upon 11,000 savers in the IoM branch of the bank whose money had been placed in the UK bank for 'safe-keeping'. The Chancellor maintained this stance even after the event was brought to his attention. The asset was kept safe, not for the depositors, but for dividing up between all the unsecured creditors of the UK bank - the biggest creditor of which is the UK Treasury itself.

This affair was clearly pre-orchestrated, how else would a foreign bank (ING) take on 170,000 private retail accounts valued at some £2.6 billion at two hours notice? 11,000 ordinary British savers have had their life-savings taken from them and demand to know why. We need to know the events LEADING up to this dreadful appropriation of assets from a fellow British jurisdiction. No more cover-ups, no more spin, and no more trite comments in reply please.


Sorry I am not very active at

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Thu, 02/07/2009 - 14:42

Sorry I am not very active at this moment on the posting front, in the middle of moving countries!! However I am still having an exchange with Treasury:
If any of this is of us by all means use it:

Firstly it is public knowledge that HMG were aware of potential problems in Iceland system over a year before this incident, the FSA knew, the Bank of England knew and HM Treasury knew. There is amble evidence in correspondence between the regulators that something was amiss and the UK authorities of every hue were knowledgeable of the situation. And yet not one, be it the FSA or yourselves or the Ministry of Justice made any effort whatsoever to advise the IoM regulators of the situation. Is it possible that yet again I am witnessing a lack of co-ordination from my countries Government and agencies?? Suggesting that the situation changed very quickly is stretching credulity Ms Gibbs, it was an ongoing monitoring exercise by the UK authorities, they/you had ample time to plan and respond. You do I assume have Crisis Management options available and people who can strategically plan? You do I assume have teams that are dedicated to monitoring the economic situation and preparing and activating long term strategies. Sorry I cannot possibly accept such a statement as 'it happened quickly' as an excuse.

Why did the FSC and the FSA (the latter were closely monitoring the Icelandic financial situation at the time) permit or perhaps even instigate the transfer of more than fifty percent of KSFIoM's assets to Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander Ltd (KSFUK)? Do you not co-ordinate you actions? On the HM Treasury web site when this incident occurred you made considerable noises about how actions taken by HM Treasury were protecting savers. Seems that you are prepared to take credit, but not get involved when the hard yards arrive! At that point it becomes everyone else's problem Ms Gibbs. A very Russian attitude if I may say so.

This transfer left the assets exposed to an insolvency of Kaupthing h.f. in exactly the same way as if the monies had remained in KSFIoM. Secondly an ‘Arrow’ report is said to have been prepared by the FSA giving KSFUK a clean bill of health just one month prior to the UK Government's action in rendering this bank insolvent. When will the FSA publish the findings of this report? Where the FSC advised of this report and its contents? Were HM Treasury advised of this report? Was The Bank of England advised of this report?

On what basis did the UK Government implement S.I 2674 thereby providing its Treasury minister with overriding control of more than 50% of KSFIoM’s assets transferred with the assistance of the FSA for ‘safekeeping’ to the UK in the weeks preceding UK Government action? (Assistance that was similarly and most coincidentally afforded to the Guernsey regulator). This overarching prerogative was not simply withheld from the Treasury Select Committee (TSC) by Mr. Darling during questioning in November 2008, but defiantly denied.

It would therefore on its face seem that an unprecedented level of incompetence and lack of co-ordination is being witnessed doesn't it? At least unprecedented in my working career. You may well argue that the conduct of the FSA is for them to answer, but as they will not answer anything it falls to a higher authority, i.e. HM Treasury to investigate what has occurred here. From my perspective it is the wholesale actions of HMG that is to say, HMT, FSA, BoE and Downing St that are very responsible for this debacle.

Perhaps this little bit of media report might convince somebody to take a good look:

MPs say FSA misled Select Committee over Iceland - papers

Friday 12th June 2009: 09:30
By IFAonline
The Financial Services Authority (FSA) may have deliberately misled the committee over Icelandic banks, MPs have claimed, The Telegraph reports.

In a hard-hitting report the Communities and Local Government Committee, which is investigating why local authorities deposited more than £1bn with Icelandic banks, criticised the regulator.

"Answers from the FSA are unhelpful to the point where we wonder whether they might constitute deliberate obfuscation", MPs on the committee claimed. The public criticism is deeply embarrassing for the FSA.

Alongside the criticism of the FSA's evidence, the MPs also accused the regulator of abrogating its responsibilities to regulate treasury management advisers.

"We strongly suspect that the clear answer to our question of what steps the FSA has actually taken to regulate treasury advisers is "none". Given the large sums which are in stake in local authority treasury management, we consider this to be an abrogation of responsibility," wrote the MPs.

So lets move on to regarding the Insolvency Acts. You say that "funds cannot be repaid yet is because KSF UK has been placed into administration, and as part of that process, as is usual in an administration, a moratorium is in place on the enforcement by creditors of claims against KSF UK". You follow that with, "It is a key principle underlying the UK insolvency regime that unsecured creditors of an insolvent institution have equal ranking. Therefore it was not open to the Government to make KSF IoM a preferential creditor to the prejudice of other creditors". Really? Then please explain to me how David Whelan got his money returned? Its pointless going any further as that issue alone totally destroys your position.


Comments to Treasury "response"

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 02/07/2009 - 08:56

Thanks IceCrusher. I was hoping you would join in with your usual incisive writing. Just the ticket!

We need many more of you to do likewise. To date, only 8 people have added comments ("Annotations" they are called here), while a few more (19 in total) have clicked the button to say they feel the question was not answered (actually I didn't click that because in my view she DID answer the question : she said NO! The problem is I disagree with the answer!)

You don't all have to be as eloquent or as detailed as IceCrusher (and others who have posted); as long as the main points get made (and they mostly have been). Simply adding your support to the comments already made and endorsing our demands for a Public Inquiry is largely sufficient. But please let's all try to do that. Here is the link again:

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2009-06-30a.282657.h&c=23970#c23970

Go down to the bottom of the page and click "Join" to register. It's very simple to do. You will then receive an email almost immediately asking you to confirm; a simple click will take you back to the site and invite you to add your "Annotation". It's as easy as that and takes very little time. Most people so far appear to have used their real names, but don't let this put you off - you CAN use a pseudo if you prefer.

I believe this site (run largely by volunteers in the name of democracy and openness) is widely read by MPs; the site organisers claim they were largely influential in exposing the expenses scandal. In any case, if we can get plenty of comments here - directly related to this Q & A in Parliament, then we can use the link to disseminate the information as we wish.

Lucky Jim: what do you think of this initiative. Can you help to make the most of it? Is it worth a big effort or am I wasting my time?


@anrigaut Treasury "response"

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 02/07/2009 - 12:58

Anrigaut: Let's keep it going, hit this site over and over:

Why did Her Majesty's Government (together with the Dutch) turn down an Icelandic request for financial assistance long before this sorry shambles started, but were extraordinarily keen to use a power within the Anti Terrorism Crime and Security Act against our Northern neighbour? So keen in fact, that they enacted the power without even telling Parliament beforehand...

What was intended by acting in such an uncivilised, uncouth and patronising manner? Was there some jingoistic hope that the British public would take up the patriotic banner and fall in behind HMG's chest-beating approach to democracy? Or would it stir them into pulling all their assets from Icelandic institutions as quickly as possible?

Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling were extremely vocal in their public denouncements of Iceland, but not nearly so loud or public in retracting those statements - a simple letter sent instead far too late to 'reassure' Iceland that only Landsbanki had been frozen - not all Icelandic assets as so many continued to believe.

The FSA were unable to place Landsbanki under administration as it did not fall within their remit (being regulated as it was by the Icelandic FME) so Darling's plan used instead the 2001 Act to freeze assets in that bank. Within a couple of hours he also had Kaupthing and Heritabl under FSA administration with sealed Court Orders readily drawn up. The most amazing movement of 170,000 retail deposits magically transmuted into ING accounts complete with on-line access all enacted within hours and supported by £2.6 billion from the Chancellor's Treasury. Mr Darling and Lord Turner must have worked very hard together to achieve this act of sorcery. When do the 11,000 duped depositors in KSFIoM get to know how the trick was done?


@IceCrusher - Treasury Response

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 02/07/2009 - 13:17

YES, let's do that. I see you've added this too. Great!

But we still need MORE OTHERS to join in. Are you all too busy sending in your proxies?

We need to keep hitting and hit hard. For once we have a direct link to someone in the Treasury and a valid opening for emailing her. We need her to wonder what the h*** has hit her! She might get a shock; I see that she has been Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury for just TWO WEEKS (since 18 June 2009)! Let's make it a memorable debut:)

This surely has more chance of success than writing to Treasury, as a number of us have been doing, which merely elicits an infuriating stock response from a low-level civil servant and never gets anywhere near the politicians (we still try - spending hours constructing responses and trying desperately to get them sent up through the hierarchy).


duplicate...

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 02/07/2009 - 13:01

'


Add your comments now !

  • mikeinfrance
  • 12/10/08 28/09/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Wed, 01/07/2009 - 22:29

I wrote:

Sarah McCarthy-Fry completely avoids the question... the "events leading to and following the failure of Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander (Isle of Man)" MOSTLY TOOK PLACE IN THE UK ! One could, and indeed should, go back as far as Tony Shearer the former MD of Singer & Friedlander advising the FSA that Kaupthing was not fit to take over Singer & Friedlander; the FSA ignored that advice and allowed Kaupthing to take over S&F...and look what happened !!..Further from March 2008 the FSA and IOM FSC together conspired to move £550M of KSFIOM deposits to KSFUK. Next Alistair Darling said that Iceland was refusing to honour its guarantees..no records can be found of any such statement..The following day KSFUK was put into administration using anti-terrorist legislation and SEALED COURT ORDERS and KSFUK Edge accounts were moved to ING a Dutch bank.KSFUK liquidators were given instructions that no funds could be moved from KSFUK back to KSFIOM thus freezing £550M of KSFIOM deposits and CAUSING the demise of KSFIOM...And Sarah Mccarthy-Fry thinks that this whole chain of events is somehow a matter for the IOM Government.....Words fail me.......! An independent inquiry into this whole debacle is long, long overdue, and I'm sure that some 10,000 KSFIOM depositors,who have been denied access to their own money for almost 9 months now, many in dire straits, would undoubtedly agree.

Only 11 comments so far ! It's easy.. It took me no more than 5 minutes to write the above.


My comment - do it its easy

  • adrienne
  • 10/10/08 13/05/10
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 02/07/2009 - 13:42

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2009-06-30a.282657.h&c=24017#c24017

What a disgraceful answer when so many lives around the world have been shattered by the British government, without so much as a glance backward. Like the good old colonial days isnt it. My family is NOT British, but the British government took it upon themselves to collapse our bank in the Isle of Man, which was supposedly safer than other banks (in Africa), and ruin the lives of citizens from all over the world. Our lifesavings are now gone and our family struggling to keep afloat. And the British government dusts its hands and says it has nothing to do with this debacle!
1. with no option to open an account in england, for years we were banking with a reputable british branded building society in the isle of man which was the safest place we could think of keeping our money. Derbyshire was then sold to a disreputable icelandic bank a year ago with approval from the UK FSA. DESPITE being advised against it, the UK FSA allowed the transaction to happen. When it did, all we were told is that our building society had been sold to a 'northern european bank'. A little misleading perhaps? Nothing to do with the UK of course!!!
2. I have to repeat Michaeals comments above .. from March 2008 - the FSA and IOM FSC together conspired to move £550M of KSFIOM deposits to KSFUK. Next Alistair Darling said that Iceland was refusing to honour its guarantees..no records can be found of any such statement..The following day KSFUK was put into administration using anti-terrorist legislation and SEALED COURT ORDERS and KSFUK Edge accounts were moved to ING a Dutch bank.KSFUK liquidators were given instructions that no funds could be moved from KSFUK back to KSFIOM thus freezing £550M of KSFIOM deposits and CAUSING the demise of KSFIOM. Again, nought to do with the UK?...
3. The FSA had a responsibility towards the isle of Man FSC to advise them ahead of any bank collapse, which indeed they did for bradford, but, oops somehow forgot when Icelandic banks went into administration in the UK, miraculously with hundreds of milliions of our retail deposits neatly caught up to be fed to the british retail depositors, and we can now stand in line for half our money. Nothing to do with the UK of course.
4. When the TSC duly held an inquiry into this mess, they advised that the British government and the IOM government should work together to resolve the situation for us. Exactly what has been done to date on this advice by the UK govmt? Nothing for the UK to do here
5. The IOM is a crown dependency and as such relies on the UK to deal with foreign issues. Well the UK collapsed the Icelandic banks all over the world, and now has to act on behalf of the IOM to work with Iceland to secure our parent guarantee which we had in place. Again, OBVIOUSLY nothing to do with the UK.

...And Sarah Mccarthy-Fry thinks that this whole chain of events is somehow a matter for the IOM Government.


Lieben: You need to change your world view.

  • follow_the_tao
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 02/07/2009 - 15:22

Yes absolutely it is not right.
But how do we fix it?

I'm going to make this short.
You have to bodycheck these guys.

Moral outrage, and this is always problematic, doesn't work. That is what I was trying to tell you.
We need to fight.

Now how do we do this effectively, and the key word is effectively.

If we fight within ourselves we won't get there. And we won't motivate our troops.

Get a grip Lieben. Hammer out an agreement with DAG. And I'm not blaming only you.

We need to be together. Using hyperbole, I don't care if there is blood spattered on the walls. We need an accord. Until we have an accord we remain a joke. Personally I don't want to be a joke.

We've been screwed. Now let's fight back effectively.


Please tao not here

  • adrienne
  • 10/10/08 13/05/10
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 02/07/2009 - 15:26

This topic is not about me. Everyone should go onto the site and post their response to the inaccurate perceptions of the UK government, its not often we get a good opportunity like this.


OK Lieben, But can we please work together?

  • follow_the_tao
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 02/07/2009 - 22:56

Unless, or until, there is any further evidence of in my view 'silly' disagreements, patently avoidable divisions such as the DD was able to refer to in his recent judgement, bad news for us all, in the correct Spanish of 'bellyup' Me callo, I will desist from commenting on this theme. And I will direct myself to engaging with the pertinent targets for us all, being delighted to be freed do so.
It is my hope, my belief, that if 'we' can generate a working universal consensus then, and only then, will we be able to mobilise the one or two thousand that are in approximate situations to ourselves, and those others that are likewise incensed by the cynical machinations of HMG and IoMG, and the financial institutions involved.
I hope fervently that the appropriate lessons have been learned.
So for now let's say 'I'm in the program'.
Add me to your mailing list.


Well said ftt. Can I assume

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Fri, 03/07/2009 - 10:19

Well said ftt. Can I assume you have now added your 'annotation' on the TWFY site?


@Liebenk

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 02/07/2009 - 14:08

Sorry Adrienne - just seen that you've posted this here. Please see my comment to you at the top of this thread.


@anrigaut

  • icdbrazil
  • 10/10/08 30/11/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Wed, 01/07/2009 - 19:43

Infuriating & disgraceful response that was given to Mark Williams - I emailed to complain.

mccarthyfrys(?)parliament [dot] uk

Perhaps others could do likewise.


have done so

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 02/07/2009 - 16:50

HDS


email to Sarah McCarthy-Fry

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 02/07/2009 - 10:49

Thanks again for this address idcbrazil.
I too have now emailed a copy of my Annotation, prefaced and postfaced as follows:

"As one of the thousands of dispossessed KSFIOM depositors angered by the callous indifference of HMG in general, and the Treasury in particular, to their desperate plight brought about, not by the Isle of Man but by UK government actions, I have posted the following comment on the site TheyWorkForYou with respect to your dismissive response to a written Question from Mark Williams MP.
...........................
Other depositors have also added comments, some more complete than mine, and I believe many more will do so in the days and weeks ahead as they discover this latest dismissal of legitimate requests for an Inquiry into the EVENTS LEADING UP TO the failure of KSFIOM - events which took place not in the Isle of Man but in the UK. I might add that the bank did not "fail", but was effectively "brought down" by the actions of the UK Government. Depositors therefore are entitled to a full explanation of why and how this came about, and I urge you to reconsider your possibly hasty and ill-considered response."

Let's try to flood her in-box!


Thanks again Ice

  • Julienne
  • 16/10/08 31/08/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 02/07/2009 - 09:56

I too have posted on the "have your say" site and mailed that post along with comments to do the "honourable thing" to Ms McCarthy-Fry.

We need to continue to show them in Westminster that wherever in the world we are - we are watching them!!


icdbrazil: Thanks for the

  • IceCrusher
  • 14/10/08 25/10/11
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 02/07/2009 - 08:59

icdbrazil: Thanks for the address; I sent my whole 'Annotation' and added the following at the bottom:

DON'T BANK ON THE ISLE OF MAN - IT DOESN'T HAVE A LEG TO STAND ON

  1. No bank of last resort
  2. Small Island population out of proportion to the size of its OFC
  3. No representation for expat depositors - no vote no hope
  4. Gutless - no will to stand up to Big Brother HMG
  5. No money in its 'compensation' fund
  6. Blatantly biased Judiciary
  7. Confliction of interests abound in tight community
  8. Locals close ranks on outsiders

I have written ..

  • steveservaes
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Thu, 02/07/2009 - 08:05

and sent her a copy of my letter posted under "Decency" thread for answering
Come on everyone - we have got to keep at these people.


@steveservaes

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 02/07/2009 - 10:51

Excellent steveservaes.

Please, if you haven't already done so, also add an "Annotation" on the TheyWorkForYou site. This will then be read by others.
Thanks.


Well done icdbrazil

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Wed, 01/07/2009 - 20:09

And I trust you also commented or will comment on the Hansard site.

Others, please do likewise - even if you only endorse what others have said before you. We need a large NUMBER of complaints to have any chance of being noticed.


not wholly original!

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Wed, 01/07/2009 - 19:50

I have, myself, full confidence that if all depositors do as the DST has asked, if all of them give their votes by proxy to the DAG DST, if nothing is neglected, and if the best arrangements for lawyers and accountants are made, as they have been and are being made, we shall prove ourselves in DAG once again able to defend depositors' rights, to ride out being cut off from our savings, and to outlive the injustice done to us, if necessary for years, if necessary alone

We shall fight in the creditors' committee
we shall fight in the creditors' meetings
we shall continue to fight in the courts
we shall continue to fight in the Tynwald
we shall continue to fight in the UK Parliament
we shall continue to fight HMG
we shall continue to fight in the TSC
we shall continue to fight the IoM Treasury
we shall continue to fight the IoM regulator
we shall continue to fight for the DCS
we shall continue to fight the bank's directors
we shall continue to fight in the press
we shall continue to fight on the TV
we shall continue to fight on the internet
and we shall never surrender our claim for the full return of ALL of our savings.

DAG DST expects and implores every depositor to give us their proxy vote. The DST is powerless to do anything more for you without it. It is no good giving it to the HNW group, or to the chairman, or anyone else. DAG DST NEEDS your proxy vote NOW.


Maginifcent, elgee

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Wed, 01/07/2009 - 20:04

Hear, hear elgee to all that. But with one reservation:

I want to see the HNW group fighting for all that alongside DST

We are all after the same thing
we are all in this together
we need everyone on board
we can do it together
we do not need divisive internal fights
we need cooperation and discussion and collective action

If it helps we can get rid of both group titles and find a new one we can all rally behind.
We ARE the DAG. And we will not be defeated. But we need to get our act together NOW - otherwise we are lost.


Magnificent, elgee

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Wed, 01/07/2009 - 20:11

Anrigaut: conceded

I like Gavin and some other HNW group people, but they are only DAG when it suits them. whereas DST is and always has been DAG:

"The DST got me EPS1 and EPS2 and overturned the SoA and got me liquidation and the DCS and defeated the IoMG, but now Gavin wants me to give my vote to the HNW group and all I ever got from them was an e-mail and a promise to keep the same old PWC liquidators"

"I gave my vote to Adrienne and all I got was this t-shirt and one less seat for DAG on the creditors' committee"


Elgee, pls reply, Gavin

  • HOPPER
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Thu, 02/07/2009 - 14:18

Elgee - I understood from our telephone call last night that we had each agreed to discourage our respective teams from postings of this sort. I am therefore surprised to see this under your name. Do the quotation marks imply that you are quoting others ? Please explain.

Thank you for your personal comment, however I do take offence at the comment regarding Adrienne. Like many, yourself, Stuart, Sarah etc among them, Adrienne has worked very hard for what she believes is right. At times her view has differed from yours and the DSTs, but each of us is a depositor with the right to (express) our own views.

As I recall it, the defeat of the SOA required the combined proxy vote of both DST and HNW. DST alone did not have enough votes. This is a fact. Look at Simpsom's press relaease from 22 May. We WORKED TOGETHER ! No harm in this - we had different views about some things, but WORKED TOGETHER.

By the way, as you know, DAG stands for Depositors Action Group. I am a depositior. All HNWs are depositors. We are all part of DAG. DST is a Stratgegy Team which represents members of DAG. HNW is a Committee which represents larger depostors within DAG. Its okay to have 2 groups, I am surprised there are not more (e.g. a sub £50k group never sprung up, which has always surprised me).

Finally, both HNW and DST teams have achieved many things, some public, some behind the scenes. The assertion in the posting is quite ridiculous. The HNW Committee has respect for the DST, despite differences of opinion/tactics/personalities etc. Why can't you bring yourself to make this two way ?


Elgee, pls reply, Gavin

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Thu, 02/07/2009 - 15:27

Gavin: As I understood our conversation, although I did not like the idea, you saw the present situation as one in which DST and HNW group are each campaigning separately for the same constituency of voters: namely DAG. You felt that DST and HNW group were like different political parties canvassing proxy votes from the same group of depositors, whereas I felt that DST is and was DAG.

Nonetheless, accepting that there is nothing I or anyone else can do to stop HNW group trying to attract proxy votes from DAG members to themselves rather than the DST, whether or not they are "high net worth", in the spirit of what you wanted I was doing just what political parties do when campaigning. What's wrong with that?


elgee - my response

  • HOPPER
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Thu, 02/07/2009 - 16:30

Campaigning is fine. Personal insults are not. Let's keep this professional. Your personal comment about Adrienne was unprofessional and very unlike the interactions I have had with you over the past several months. You owe her an apology (in my view)


elgee - my response

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Thu, 02/07/2009 - 21:46

Gavin, I had no idea that Adrienne would interpret as a "personal insult" what was I thought obviously intended to be a light-hearted jibe against the body (HNW group), formed by Adrienne, that has elected to be DST's opponents in the proxy voting process. The comment under complaint was one that read: "I gave my vote to Adrienne and .... " and was no more personal than was Adrienne soliciting votes for her group rather than the DST (which I have to say I still regard as most unfortunate and undesirable).

Nonetheless, as Adrienne evidently regards it as a personal insult then I am of course more than happy to sincerely apologise for causing offence and refrain from referring to her at all notwithstanding that we are supposed to be competing for proxy votes.


elgee - my response

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Thu, 02/07/2009 - 18:13

Gavin: As far as I know, I made no personal comment about Adrienne and my use of her name was in the generic sense of "Adrienne's group". Can you say what exactly you considered as personal?