Actions taken or being taken

  • Anonymous
  • unspecified
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Posted: Fri, 10/10/2008 - 04:35

If you are contacting someone, be it media or other, and you feel it might benefit others on the site, please give the details.

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SWIFT

  • wayne
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 08:46

Hi

Any chance of including SWIFT transactions in here

What is the current status of the CHAPS and BACS transfers initiated prior to Thursday 9 October but which were never completed?

Many of us have SWIFT transactions outstanding

cheers


Swift also. Yes please add

  • occams razor
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 09:38

Swift also. Yes please add


Done and...

  • 491
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 10:09

done


Transfers

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 09:24

www.citywire.co.uk. site currently has an article headed "Kaupthing Edge says delayed payments to arrive by week's end ......."

"Kaupthing Edge says delayed payments to arrive by week's end.
Kaupthing Edge has said that all customers waiting for cash they have withdrawn from the Icelandic-owned internet bank to arrive in their destination bank accounts can expect it by the end of Friday."

I am only quoting this. I do not its accuracy ..............

Apologies if this has already been reported here.


Transfers from bobby shafted

  • Anonymous
  • Offline
  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 09:44

Have read this article and it makes more more worried about the portion of money I had in-flight. It mentions Edge customers only, no indication of the IoM monies. Have tried to call Mike Simpson, liquidator, both yesterday and today to ask for clarity on the position - there has to be a rule governing whether the money in-flight goes forward or backwards. Waiting for Mike to call back.....


cold-dose presumably this is

  • sleeplessnight
  • 10/10/08 30/06/09
  • unspecified
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  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 09:28

cold-dose presumably this is Uk and not IoM?


Yes

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 10:49

...and Kaupthing Edge only, rather than normal KSF UK accounts. It's been organised via ING, not KSF UK.


Smellor

  • 491
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 09:13

Good point. Done!


Compensation Scheme - Companies

  • s_green101
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 08:31

Hi bblair. Excellent work. Could we ask why company accounts are excluded from any compensation scheme and furthermore that such exclusion be removed?


Thanks S_Green

  • 491
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 10:12

Appreciate the support. I think we should ask for clarification about that. Blair


Thanks S_Green

  • 491
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 10:13

duplicate


support

  • malc
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 10:14

bblair,

just to let you know that I really am behind you guys, along with everyone else on the site. if we can coordinate our efforts so to the best effect that would be great.

malc


Thanks Malc

  • 491
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 15:37

we are all on the same team right? i'll keep posting here to help coordinate. cheers. Blair


Questions for IoM Govt & PwC

  • Sign
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 08:09

bblair,

Superb effort, which I am sure is appreciated by all of us. As you say, it's lengthy, but this is rapidly becoming a legal issue, and therefore it is better to cover all areas.

I have a few comments:

  1. Given structure of the note, first section of IoM questions should have a sub-heading.
  2. Think we should emphasise timescales a bit more.
  3. On in-flight transactions, it seems to me that a critical question is whether these will complete their journey to the receiving bank (obviously preferable) or whether they will be returned to KSF (IoM).

However, I would rather these questions were put to the IoM government and PwC sooner rather than later, so if you would prefer to go ahead without any edits, that would also make sense.


Edits...

  • 491
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 10:37

I've edited for each of your points. good ones. Blair


Action

  • dave
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 07:15

Has anyone contacted the governor on the IOM. He should be able to bring the plight of all British depositors who are not residents of the IOM. The working party will have easier access to him than the Chief Minister or Finance Minister. He needs to be updated why KSF IOM failed ie because his bosses government siezed assets of KSF IOM.


Bankers at work

  • EIL
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 06:59

I called and spoke to someone in Kaupthing SnF IOM last night. The staff members are at the bank and working alongside the liquidators. They said that all the funds that were sent this week have been blocked in UK. The liquidator is in touch with UK authorities to either release the funds or return them to origin. Eventually what is to happen no one knows.

Perhaps there will be more light to this matter during the course of next week.


NICK MARTIN CONTACT ME

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 06:33

Following last nights Cannel $ bradcast qwhich I have not seen but know about, all went okay until another iljudges remark at the end! I am uringNick Martin of Channel 4 to contact at the IoM Bunker! I and the core team know lots more than you Nick so if you want to follow through thenn get in touch with me. I anm Stephen Thomas and I working very hard her with others, we are talking to the tydall and advisng them,
SO Please anyone get them to talk top me, thank you I have abusy day ahead!
My god I need an eye test!!
From the Sefton Hotel Bunker IoM


Nick Martin - Channel 4

  • Elpasout
  • 10/10/08 31/08/09
  • a depositor
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  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 08:28

Did Nick martin get back to you? I have just spoken to him - and will post his comments/postion separately in a mo. I am hovering on decision to come over to IOM later today. Can you phone me pls? (sent you my number)


MP, Chancellor and IOM Government

  • philus
  • 15/10/08 n/a (free)
  • unspecified
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  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 05:06

I have written to chancellor, my MP and Tony Brown IOM in constructive tone. No replies yet.


Member of Parlaiment

  • expat3
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 05:03

I emailed my MP, Charlotte Atkins, yesterday and received an initial automated response, followed late yesterday evening with the response, 'I am happy to send this email to the Chancellor and see what he has to say. It is not my field of expertise.'


Member of Parliament

  • Chipped Off
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 18:24

I have written to my MP in my Londonconstituency but I have not had a reply back, only an acknowledgement of my email. So not holding out too much luck there.


UK Administrator meeting

  • frozenrover
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 17:51

The following is a link to the Guardian's site about the amount of money local councils have with Icelandic banks (plural !)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/oct/14/localgovernment-localgove...

Within the article it states -
"Councils have been promised by mid-November an estimate of the level of funds they can expect to get back, to help them plan their budgets.
Eaton said that discussions with the administrators had been "hugely encouraging, the administrators considered that the book value of the assets of each business appeared to be of the same order of magnitude as the liabilities, although it is too early to give exact figures."

This statement raises amongst others, three interesting points -

  1. Will PWC meet with our representatives on the Island and provide us with a similar update
  2. Where does KSFIOM's loan to the UK company rank in terms of repayment when compared to an ordinary depositor ? ie should we get our cash before the councils get it !!
  3. Should we be expecting similar timescales

Liquidators Statement 13-10-08

  • Peasant
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 11:29

I don't know whether this is somewhere else of the Forum, if it apologies for the repetition.
"The directors are still the directors of KS&FIOM, however the Liquidator Provisionally is ultimately responsible for KS&FIOM. However, the directors and existing management structure will remain in place and the directors and their existing management team will be assisting the Liquidator Provisionally with the day-to-day operations.

I will be working closely with management and my key objective achieving the best result for customers and creditors and to achieve this I will require your support during this process. As reported at the meeting held in the Isle of Man on 9 October 2008, I have entered preliminary negotiations with parties intereested in purchasing parts of the business, and have instructed lawyers in London and Iceland to assist me in attempting to receive assets of the bank currently held in those locations".


fellow non-sleepers.

  • golightly
  • 14/10/08 28/08/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 10:48

I faxed I.o.M. on Monday 6th. October at 8.30am, requesting funds be transfered to my bank in London. The hard copy of the fax was sent by 9.00am guaranteed delivery, so Kaupthing-Edge ( K-E ) received this before opening of business on Tuesday 7th.
At 5.30pm on 7th, I e-mailed K-E as the nothing had arrived in London.
At 7:19am on 8th, I received a reply from Michael White of K-E which reads :- " I am looking into now. Please be advised that although there are delays with payments, it will be sent."
My Transaction sheet ( which I've printed ) dated 09-Oct-2008 reads :-
08-Oct-2008 Telegraphic Transfer - GBP20.00
08-Oct-2008 Transfer-London - GBP,.00
08-Oct-2008 Balance - GBP0.00
To date ( 11.45am 14 Oct. ) nothing has been received in London.

Who should we jointly appoint to sue/recover our hard earned cash ?


Bankers at work

  • EIL
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 06:58

I called and spoke to someone in Kaupthing SnF IOM last night. The staff members are at the bank and working alongside the liquidators. They said that all the funds that were sent this week have been blocked in UK. The liquidator is in touch with UK authorities to either release the funds or return them to origin. Eventually what is to happen no one knows.

Perhaps there will be more light to this matter during the course of next week.


Anyone want to meet in Manchester area?

  • JC1
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 10:33

Anyone in the Manchester/Lancashire/Cheshire want to meet up to discuss our plight and offer each other support? Maybe we could offer our joint conclusion to a specific action plan as "one Voice" to the great guys doing all the work on behalf of this forum?
I would be really happy to arrange communication/venue/timing/liaison of the meeting?


that would be great

  • jenren
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 11:07

we are in wakefield but happy to travel to leeds/ manchester (my sis is in manchester). Would be amazing to sit and chat with people in the same situation. We can talk about practical stuff but also just offer support. I have allowed access to my email via this site so feel free to contact me.


NEWS FEED: Efforts to help KSF depositors

  • guttered
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 10:30

THIS IS ENCOURAGING NEWS!

Reading between the tea leaves this implies that a lot of efforts are going on behind the scenes on the island to help us. This is why it is so important to be well measured, calm and rationale in our reactions and response.

http://www.manxradio.com/readNEwsItem.aspx?id=26760

The chairman of the bank Kaupthing Singer and Friedlander Isle of Man says efforts are continuing to secure the money of its depositors.

KSF collapsed on Thursday after its parent bank was nationalised.

Former Chief Minister Donald Gelling says the KSF Board are meeting on a daily basis in an attempt to resolve the situation (audio file attached


this sounds positive and if

  • sleeplessnight
  • 10/10/08 30/06/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 10:40

this sounds positive and if it's what we've been waiting for. I can't download the audio for some reason - can someone post it please?


Contacted local MP today...

  • JC1
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 10:19

Thanks for info - actioned this first thing this morning - got automated reply, so will keep waiting.
By the way - Anyone on the site living in Cheshire/Lancashire area?......I'm on my own and staying calm and rational with the help of this forum, although i face a $600k + loss - however, i dont want to burden friends & relatives with my woe's, but its a lonely old predicament to be in - would be great to have contact with somebody local - is there anybody around my area who would like a chat ?


Chat

  • ianhkhi
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 05:52

Can you go to your account ("My Account") on this site and enable your email contact? Then your unknown friends can get in touch with you a bit more easily. Thanks.


'one your own'

  • stradivarious
  • 13/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 05:30

I understand that conundrum well as I live together with my elderly parents and don't want to jepordize their health by this turmoil. I have no one with whom to talk and as the shock turns to anger it can get very difficult. I tell myself that heath is paramount otherwise money means nothing. I live very far away.....NZ......but feel the pain


Talk to people!

  • tonycBrisbaneOz
  • 12/10/08 31/05/13
  • a depositor
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  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 11:01

I have found it very therapeutic to talk to my friends, family and the media about my plight. I've had two offers of somewhere to stay whilst I get back on my feet if it gets that desperate. Don't be afraid to ask for help. This predicament is not of your own doing.

Regards, Tony


Its good to talk

  • podather
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 10:56

JC1 - I am in Bolton and in this for £300,000
Taken a different stance to you and have told everybody, even strangers ... seems to get some theraputic effect from it
Happy to talk if you need to


news feeds from Bloomberg today

  • guttered
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 09:19

Iceland Holds Talks With Russia on $5.5 Billion Loan

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aZW5Tmup8sN4

Yields on Kaupthing Bank Samurais Jump as Crisis Grips Iceland

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aOVEbHrVI1Vg


Let me know how I can help further

  • Life changer
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 07:35

I live in Tbilisi, Georgia with family and have 550k at risk, essentially our house fund. I have taken the following basic actions:
1) spoken to my Ambassador here who is following up with FCO. The FSA seems to be the suggested focus point for lobbying;
2) e-mailed Yvette Cooper;
3) written to my MP;
4) e-mailed David Cameron

We should be lobbying the UK government first and foremost and I encourage all expats living overseas to contact their Ambassador - no matter how busy they are or how well you know them, just do it.

It's great a list of questions is being drawn up to help us understand which buttons to push. If I can help with promoting the issue in the press then please let me know.

Good luck to the core team that seems to be developing.


Good Work....

  • 491
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 22:48

Good work Life Changer... you'be been busy. Blair


UK BANKING LEGISLATION GOVERNING BANK TRANSFERS

  • guttered
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 07:19

Are there any banking lawyers that are deposit sufferers or have any friends that are lawyers?

I'm a technical chartered accountant, so if someone could direct me to the UK banking legislation governing electronic bank transfers, I would be able to ascertain whether all transfers activated should be honoured up to point of official bank licence suspension. Logic seems to dictate so, but we need the legislation / case law to confirm this.

Also we could look back in history...where folks initiated transfers prior to the insolvency of a bank. Maybe we can take some pointers from lessons already learnt?

Thanks


hit up a list

  • Kaupthing Over ...
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 22:08

Guttered, I arranged to gosee big league lawyers tomorrow morning can you text me a few very specific bullet points to throw down.I don't know if they will curtail my number here but if we don't start connecting here and working effectively we're gonna get trampled. it's zero seven eight six two seven zero eight six six two.


Simplified version

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 10:54

The money (as opposed to the electronic transfer request) travels through certain banks. The status of it depends on where it is. The route appears to be as follows:

  • KSF(IOM)
  • KSF UK
  • Royal Bank of Scotland (correspondent bank)
    [via Bank of England]
  • (destination correspondent bank if applicable)
  • destination bank

If in KSF(IOM) then it's like the money on deposit. Still owed to you, but tied up in the administration/liquidation.

If in KSF UK, similarly tied up in administration there.

If in RBS, it'll be in KSF's account there. The call on that will be with the KSF UK administrators.

If in the destination correspondent bank or the destination bank there should be no reason why it wouldn't have been delivered straight to the final account. Once transferred via the Bank of England it is irreversible, and should therefore be outside the reach of the KSF UK administrator.

That's a very basic overview of the situation, and there will of course be all kinds of weird legal technicalities to be resolved - like the exact status of the relationships between the various banks, and what happens if it is identifiably a chunk of an Isle of Man depositor's money stuck in transit through KSF UK.

There's also a very slight possibility that if money was mistakenly transferred by RBS after KSF UK was put into administration that there could potentially be a constructive trust over it in favour of KSF UK (because it would have not been transferred legally), and thus it might temporarily frozen in a destination bank's central accounts whilst that point was being resolved.

(The above not to be taken as legal advice, etc. etc.)


cold dose - do you think it

  • sleeplessnight
  • 10/10/08 30/06/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 11:12

cold dose - do you think it will come down to these technicalities? I transferred and it showed as clear, but I would not feel comfortable knowing I got my money back on this principle while others are left high and dry. I am hoping for our united appeal for 100% recompense based on the parental guarantee and banking law/European law.


Can't say

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 11:15

It'd be impossible to know at this stage, I'm afraid. There's going to be a lot of work for someone to unravel some of this, particularly any BACS transfers.


guttered- someone talking

  • sleeplessnight
  • 10/10/08 30/06/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 08:52

guttered- someone talking active sense! i believe knife edge is a lawyer. I have an excellent lawyer who specializes in the area too and am contact in him for a snippet of free advice this morning, but a lawyer amongst us working on this to ascertain our rights under European law and banking codes is what we need.


Agree - aggressive, competent class action needed

  • drglowry
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 08:24

Dear Sleepless,

Couldn't agree more. Posting from Australia, I feeel disembodied in a way I could not have imagined.

What would be helpful would be if some brave employee at KSFIOM could obtain a hard copy and e-mail list of KSFIOM depositors. The list would form the basis for a class action suit. How many depositors, sleepless like you and me, would not respond affirmatively to an e-mail from the (hopefully) good firm that takes this on (one hopes that Rumpole's spirit lives on), offering the opportunity to join a class-action suit to recover the funds belonging to KSFIOM's depositors? Could be a quid or two in it for the legal saviours as well - they would certainly have earned it!

Meanwhile, like you, I am facing another sleepless night.

Cheers,


thanks bblair

  • JD
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 07:06

Thanks for your work


Action Update - Questions and Answers

  • 491
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 06:40

Yesterday, there was a concensus to move forward with the submission of a formal set of questions.
I have now received a large number of questions by email and will set about compiling and condensing these questions in preparation for what I hope will be a series of productive meetings. I am working with Hopper and Expat offline to schedule meetings ASAP and will report back here.

My day today is quite jammed with other business, but I believe that I can have a well focused document by late tonight. Regards, Blair


Let's involve large banks!

  • Thomka
  • 14/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 05:44

I think one way to get attention of our huge problem and maybe unexpected help is by contacting directly the CEO's of the largest bank in Europe. Perhaps it's a bit naive but if we all together as an Action Group ask for immediate help by the largest banks mentioning the huge social, personal, financial problems Kaupthing-IOM has created, perhaps one banks steps in as a white knight (or also for publicity/reputation).

What if someone writes a brief, concise HELP LETTER (if my first language was English, I'd do it myself) on behalf of the Action Group we could fax / mail it out tomorrow already.

Here is a contact list of some major banks in Europe:

Michel Tilmant, Chairman & CEO
NG Groep N.V.
ING House, Amstelveenseweg 500
1081 KL Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Tel. +31-20-541-5411
Fax +31-20-541-5497

Dr. Joseph Ackermann
CEO & Chairman of the Management Board
Deutsche Bank AG
Theodor-Heuss-Allee 70
60486 Frankfurt, Germany
Tel. +49-69-910-00
Fax +49-69-910-34-225

John S. Varley
Group Chief Executive and Director
Barclays PLC
1 Churchill Place
London E14 5HP, United Kingdom
Tel. +44-20-7116-1000
Fax +81-3-5471-1042

J. Eric Daniels
Group Chief Executive and Director
Lloyds TSB Group plc
25 Gresham St.
London EC2V 7HN, United Kingdom
Tel. +44-20-7626-1500
Fax +44-20-7489-3484

Michael F. Geoghegan
Group CEO and Director
HSBC Holdings plc
8 Canada Sq.
London E14 5HQ, United Kingdom
Tel. +44-20-7991-8888
Fax +44-20-7992-4880

Marcel Rohner, CEO
UBS AG
Bahnhofstrasse 45
CH-8098 Zurich, Switzerland
Tel. +41-44-234-11-11
Fax +41-44-239- 91-11

Baudouin Prot
President & CEO
BNP Paribas
16, boulevard des Italiens
75009 Paris, France
Tel. +33-1-40-14-45-46
Fax +33-1-40-14-69-73

Philippe Citerne
Deputy CEO
Société Générale
29, boulevard Haussmann
75009 Paris, France
Tel. +33-1-42-14-20-00
Fax +33-014-282-8027

Brady Dougan, CEO
Credit Suisse
Paradeplatz 8
8070 Zurich, Switzerland
Phone: +41-44-333-11-11
Fax: +41-44-333-25-87


Any in IOM?

  • 491
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Tue, 14/10/2008 - 22:51

Which banks are already present in IOM. It might be easier for them to expand their deposit base, if they already have an IOM infrastructure. Blair


Any IOM

  • Andy Ish
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Wed, 15/10/2008 - 06:30

Nationwide is down stairs in the same building as Kaupthing IOM. They have an excellent financial standing and I heard backed 100% by Nationwide UK! They are more solid than Barclays, HBOS and RBS. At least they never asked for money from the UK Government rescue plan.