Actions taken or being taken

  • Anonymous
  • unspecified
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Posted: Fri, 10/10/2008 - 04:35

If you are contacting someone, be it media or other, and you feel it might benefit others on the site, please give the details.

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Liquidator

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 16:44

Until the 24th, there's only a provisional liquidator, who has limited powers to direct the company - i.e. related to preserving assets and records. He doesn't yet have duties related to the operation of the company, as it isn't in liquidation.

That said, being a bank the preservation of assets means it has effectively ceased trading. By giving the staff notice, the company reduces the money it will owe the staff in lieu of notice on the 24th if it is wound-up.


sleepless - I have no

  • occams razor
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 16:40

sleepless - I have no experience in these matters, but what you say strikes me as correct if a "company" is being taken over. It may not be the same case when only the debts/assets/liabilities or whatever are taken over. E.g. I believe Kaupthing UK wasn't transferred to ING, only some of the the financial assets. I could well be wrong though.


Do we have the termination of

  • sleeplessnight
  • 10/10/08 30/06/09
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 16:48

Do we have the termination of their employment on good authority, just a though that these staff were presumably employed by the Derbyshire. Also employment law is not an area the liquidator/administrator and disrupting their continual employment would be unfavoured. Staff termination prior to the period for the opportunity of potential buyers would also make no sense to the 'package'.

I don't think we should waste time speculating about it though as we have no facts.


Speculating

  • cold-dose
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 16:55

You are correct that the situation with this is not known.

The staff would have been transferred with the company when it changed from Derbyshire to Kaupthing. They wouldn't have any continuing relationship to Derbyshire BS.

Staff given notice can be 're-engaged' by the liquidator or a purchaser of the company later. There is a risk of them leaving before that point, but I would have guessed that such a risk would have been there anyway given the circumstances.

Compare with Lehman Bros in the US where the staff were dismissed then largely rehired by Barclays when it took over part of the operations.

So, in summary, whatever the situation is I wouldn't read much into it either way.


This was on IOMtodayonline.co.im - It shows media focus helps

  • worriedsaver
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 15:52

SATURDAY, OCTOBER 11, 2008 21:26: It is more important than ever for members of Tynwald to counter the adverse publicity which is starting to hit the Isle of Man. Channel 4 broadcast a programme tonight about the collapse of Icelandic banks in which the Depositors Compensation Scheme on the island was compared unfavourably with the actions in the UK. Guernsey was also criticised but that is little consolation! To quote from the Channel 4 website: "And what of those people who invested in the parallel banking universes of Guernsey and the Isle of Man. We shall hear tonight of a woman whose mother has no idea whether or not she has lost her entire life-savings . Several hundred thousand pounds at stake from her house sale...told the bank was a no-risk move...desperately tried to get the money out ...now at a loss.. And there's no Nice Mr Darling offering a lifeline to save these people. I understand that only £50,000 is now guaranteed safe." This will not help our international image and I can only hope that the Government will move quickly to clear up the mess left by Kaupthing Singer & Friedlander's demise, which seems to be largely the result of UK actions and subsequent Icelandic reaction. I also hope that the Chief Minister has been sufficiently forthright to get action from the UK delegation in Reykjavik.
JOHN


Re - Attention - sorry error again

  • sabi Star
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • unspecified
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 14:09

ATTENTION- another group of off-shore losers

  • sabi Star
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • unspecified
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 14:03

Please look at www.Iwantmymoneybacklandsbanki.com
Can we co-ordinate with them regards - British Govt., Iceland etc?


link

  • humphrey
  • 10/10/08 01/03/11
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 14:13

Doesn't seem to be working, could you repost it please?


Information

  • Tank
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 13:16

I have been following this site from it's inception and am grateful to those responsible for establishing and maintaining it.

A few comments:

  • Irrespective of the financial hardship that has been imposed on many of us, I do not believe that, as a group, we will attract much public sympathy. We need, therefore, to be careful to avoid alienating those who may be of help.
  • It seems to me that lack of hard information is compounding our distress.
  • It seems very unlikely that there will be a swift resolution to the problem and we should prepare ourselves for the long haul.
  • As Expat in particular has mentioned, it is almost inconceivable that high level discussions are not taking place. There are many ways to skin a cat and I hope that KSFIOM can be kept alive long enough to give this process every chance of success.

What, if anything then, can we do? It would be good if we could establish a direct line of communication, if one doesn't already exist, with the two players currently nearest to the action ie the Manx government and Mike Simpson from PWC. It would be helpful to know that the former is strenuously pursuing our interests through HMG in Iceland and that the latter is doing the same for our funds with KSF in the UK.

On this point, the accounts for KSFIOM at 31/12/07 tell a slightly confusing story in that, simplistically, customer deposits held with Kaupthing Iceland and KSFUK totalled £396m and £79m respectively whilst interest received totalled £.6m and £10.5m respectively - clearly a moveable feast. Approx 75% of the £759m in customer deposits was held either in cash or in cash with group companies.

A single point of contact might faciltate better access to and dissemination of information and also give us a voice if decisions need to be taken on our behalf.

Also, whilst it appears clear to me that our primary source of hope is recovery of the full amounts owed from Kaupthing in terms of it's guarantee (whatever the mechanism or time frame involved), we would be derelict in not testing the legality of HMG freezing of assets in the UK if these 'assets' include funds owing to KSFIOM.

As mentioned elsewhere, it seems that the time has come for us to get organised and perhaps a coalition of the willing should now plan to meet. I can do so with a days notice (UK) and a couple of days (IOM).

I can be contacted on rod88000(?)hotmail [dot] com.


joint letter

  • Lash Canino
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 13:16

What about if we pen a jointly-signed letter to a potential buyer of the deposits, committing to participate in publicity if the buyout goes ahead? "I feel safe now thanks to Santander"; "ING saved my savings"; "People from all over the world now feel confident leaving their funds on deposit with XYZ" etc. etc.?
Any takers?


IOM News - "Government seizes assets" -GBP4billion

  • sabi Star
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • unspecified
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 13:07

Did you see new headlines on www.iomtoday.co.im?
But that means - BRITISH government - any crumbs?


Gov seizes GBP4B assets

  • frozenrover
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 13:11

sabi - mentioned this in an earlier point, whilst this is the UK Gov some of these assets must be due back to the IOM - if previous comments are correct.
My concern is that the UK does a deal with Iceland to release these in return for guarantees that will not include KSF IOM.
Are we sure we have a stong enough representation within the UK treasury discussions ?


Where are we...?

  • colinm
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 12:26

There are now so many posts on the site that I am confused. I would like to know two things:

  1. Have we made any progress on jointly appointing a lawyer?
  2. Has anyone successfully managed to set up a meeting either physically or via the web?

Please email me at colinm-ksfiom(?)live [dot] co [dot] uk

Colin


We're working on it!

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 12:30

We're working hard on making information easier to find, better structured etc, and trying to separate facts from "chat". The site has taken off so fast, and topics filled up so quickly which is great - but now leading to needle-in-haystack problems. Don't forget though, there's a "search" facility.


Spokesperson

  • thesunnysouth
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 12:09

I am not an account holder but my mum has lost all her savings and I am representing her interests as she is quite elderly now.
I feel that there are several people on this site Exat for eg who are putting themselves out to help and also seem to have an insight into what is going on. I would suggest that we have say three people who are able to speak for us perhaps someone based in the IoM someone in the UK etc who can talk to each other on email and reflect our views but equally are in the right place to talk with those in the know. Putting all the pressure on one person, particularly when under a great deal of strain anyway would seem unfair.


Thats an excellent idea, we

  • Monkeyface3604
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 12:23

Thats an excellent idea, we need to start to structure ourselves, this may take quite a while to sort. Orgainisation is the key to us acting efficiently and effectively

Another thing we need to do is start working out where people are all based.
Matt Walker can i suggest some way that people can start to organise into regions and countries


I agree Monkeyface. If we

  • sleeplessnight
  • 10/10/08 30/06/09
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 16:04

I agree Monkeyface. If we can get geography/logistics - and how about a representative for each action/activity based on geography or skills/experience. We organize ourselves rapidly to ensure we cover all points


The answer is going to be political

  • dodot
  • 10/10/08 01/06/13
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 11:52

I have not been following all the comments so this might be a bit random. The following is a note I sent to the liquidator it does however capture my view.

Mike.

On reflection I guess the real issue is whether or not you can get your hands on the assets, wherever they are in UK or Iceland. And that probably depends on what deal the two governments do.

I am hopeful that they do "do a deal" and we, the offshore depositors, who have little political capital in this process have to hope IOM and you can bring enough influence to bear, legal or otherwise, to get assets to support our deposits.

I still think that there will be many depositors who would happily tie up their savings in say something like a time bond, if this might encourage Governments to release assets, which for them might be, in essence, paper.

Good luck and may you succeed.

Regards


Lawyer / Other queries

  • IdealisticRealist
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 11:33

For those seeking to instruct a lawyer, I do not view that as being essential just yet. It may be a sensible move further down the line. However, the provisional liquidator has instructed a law firm to try and recover funds from the most obvious sources (KSF UK and Kaupthing Hf - see his emails to various depositors, as posted on this forum). Together with its lawyers, I suspect that the provisional liquidator will do anything that the depositors might be able to do in the short-term, only much more effectively (although of course, I would not seek to dissuade people from seeking legal advice if they think that would provide useful guidance and reassurance).

Long term, the depositors may wish to consider engaging lawyers to determine whether they have a claims against:

  1. the UK government;
  2. the Icelandic government;
  3. any Kaupthing entities; and
  4. Derbyshire UK, who are merging with Nationwide (in the case of those who invested with Derbyshire IoM).

This latter potential defendant may be subject to a claim for mis-selling / false advertisement / unreasonable withdrawal of, or refusal to honour, its parental guarantee in respect of existing accounts upon the sale of the subsidiary (I am a lawyer and I am yet to turn my attention to this possibility properly, and I will need to analyse this once it becomes clear my money has gone and I am thinking more clearly - at the moment, my anger with the Derbyshire stems from investing with them (via their subsid), only for them to sell me down the river to Kaupthing before I had even received my deposit account certificate - yes, I invested for the first time with Derbyshire IoM on 14 November 2007 and the first material I received in return was the circular informing me about the sale to Kaupthing).

The issues that I am focusing on at the moment are:

(a) the possibility of KSF IoM being sold off to a white knight bank (the expressions of interest must have an outside chance of rescuing us, otherwise they would not have been publicly acknowledged by the provisional liquidator - however, its probably best not to pin any hopes in this direction);

(b) will the provisional liquidator be able to recover funds from KSF UK or Kaupthing Iceland?

(c) how the claim in the IOM DCS will work, and in particular how that claim would dovetail with other avenues for recovery: if we make a claim, does that mean we abandon hope of recovery of anything above £50,000? What if the liquidator significantly increases the assets of KSF IoM during the liquidation - would he pay these assets to the depositors directly? Or would he reimburse the DSC for any sums paid out under that scheme? If we assign our claims to the DSC in return for a promise of payment of £50,000 over X years, can we still make a claim for any additional amounts against other parties or (to link back to the previous point) in the liquidation?

(d) will the £50,000 claim in the DSC accrue interest whilst we await receipt of the payments?

Try not to lie awake worrying. If you do that, you let them take more than your money.


Completely Agree

  • 491
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 11:52

...this is not the time for launching legal action, but rather, as I said below, that we are represented at the both corporate and government tables. IOM ministers and our liquidator are best placed to a) request those assurances, b) receive those assurances, and c) report those assurances to this forum. If we are assured that IOM interests are voiced in the diplomatic channel and rank equally with other Kaupthing units in any winding up, then I think we can keep our litigation powder dry. Note that PM Gordon Brown only threatened legal action in order to precipitate a diplomatic resolution - because he knows that once you go down the lawsuit channel you are looking at 4 years costing 30% of the upside. Blair


1 Stage at a time

  • Monkeyface3604
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 11:52

Come on guys, lets do one stage at a time here, right now the dust is billowing all over the place, lets let it settle so we can really see what our situation is.
BBLAIR and IDEALISTIC REALIST are both right


For BBlair

  • HOPPER
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 10:36

Good summary, I did 12 yrs in an investment bank and have £925k or so tied up here. Let me know a contact number via this dedicated email hopperksf(?)btinternet [dot] com (or email me and I will email back a number) if you fancy knocking around a few ideas


Voting for a spokesperson

  • AJM UAE
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 11:19

I have just read 'BBlair's summary of the situation and agree that this is a fair statement of where we are at the present moment. I also agree that one of us should be nominated as 'spokesperson' for the action group as it is now time to make a co-ordinated response. We have all told our personal stories on the website and most (?) of us have contacted MPs, the UK and IoM governments, the FSC IoM, Mike Simpson at PWC and the media.

Can I suggest one of the following people be our spokesperson: either 'Mat Walker', 'Expat' or 'BBlair'? (Could you provide your real names - at least first names - and physical locations as it is hard to deal with someone who is completely anonymous? Obviously you will not want to give details that might allow someone to access your bank account should it ever become activated again!)

Can I also suggest that we set up a feature on the website where we all can vote quickly and easily on suggestions and plans of action as they arise? Threaded discussions are great but as a way of making decisions they are not practical. What I've noticed many times on this site is that someone has a great idea, a few people support it then it disappears when the next good idea comes along.


Spokesperson

  • HOPPER
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 11:57

Agree this makes sense, and the names you put forward have certainly posted thoughtful and balanced content onto this forum. But lets be v. careful about who this is, especially for media coverage. Obviously finance/legal experience v. helpful. But we would also benefit, for media purposes, from having a good story, being a uk tax payer might help (or at least a uk national who is perhaps a civil servant working overseas etc). Needs to be based, or willing to go to, IoM (or maybe London, Iceland, depending on how things pan out. In reality, I think a spokesperson will need a small team of people to help and supplement his/her skills.

I think I can help by being a member of the "small team" to support a spokesperson. I am v. willing to offer my knowledge/experience, as an ex (London based) investment banker, but be aware I am exactly the sort of person certain elements of the uk press would love to tear to shreds so any involvement I have should definitely be more in the background, even though I pay full UK tax on my IoM savings.

As part of a small team to support a spokesperson, here's the areas where I think I can help,

  1. I am happy & planning to really push for clarification on the in flight chaps transactions tomorrow (Mon) which were routed via S&F London. I will post my findings if any. I used to deal with folks in the UK regulatory system. I could do with some legal back up here if any lawyer or ex lawyer on the forum wants to liase with me, or anyone who use to work for a UK clearing bank.
  2. I have experience in dealing with Nordic region Governments (several used to be clients of mine, unfortunately not Iceland) & am happy to go to Iceland at some stage, if that proves necessary
  3. I have experience in negotiations
  4. I have experience in running/coordinating complex transactions involing banks, regulators, accountants, lawyers in multiple jurisdictions

We all have skills to offer here.
I have an email address which I have set up, to maintain privacy, for any offers per what I have written above.
hopperksf(?)btinternet [dot] com


Excellent idea. A

  • 491
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 12:09

Excellent idea. A spokesperson who can rep the story well, with good relevant experience and a support team to assist.


voting

  • kiwi38
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 11:37

I think the spokesperson needs to be either in the IOM or London (outside number 10). Mat has done a great job setting this up but he is in Australia so has time differences to deal with and physical isolation. It would seem that either BBlair or Expat (who is in the IOM) are best placed to act as spokesperson. Both seem pretty well informed and importantly are staying fairly rationale in the emotion of this mess.

I agree that a well crafted message nees to be delivered via the media today re the plight of all KSF IOM investors.


Voting

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 11:23

It's going in right now! Also please contribute here if you have other ideas for necessary site features.


Voting for a spokesperson

  • AJM UAE
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 11:42

Hi NG,

Please can you advise all of us when the voting function has been added to the site?

Could our first motion be that we should appoint a spokesperson? If a large number of us agree (and therein lies the 'rub' - what would a large number be considered as?) then we can nominate potential spokespeople.

Thanks


Voting, polls, now available

  • ng
  • 11/10/08 31/12/20
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 12:21

It's done, the issue now is whether to allow anybody to create polls, or have some level of control. Need peoples input on that, especially the original site creators.

Let me know what you would want the voting options to be and I can create it. To give you an idea how it works, there's now a new poll here.


Voting for a spokesperson

  • AJM UAE
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 12:25

Thanks for setting up the voting, NG. Is it possible to post this question next?

To all account holders registered on this site: do we need a spokesperson (or small group of spokespeople) to represent our interests? (Please vote by 20:00 GMT on Sunday 12th October)

Yes
No
Abstain


Voting for spokesperson

  • columbgc
  • 11/10/08 14/07/10
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 11:33

BBlair


We have lost around £150,000

  • btandkt
  • 11/10/08 30/11/09
  • a depositor
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 10:36

We have lost around £150,000 of life savings (safe money or so we thought!) and frankly have little hope of anything coming back from Iceland, IOM or a UK bailout. Iceland and IOM don't have the cash and from reading the letters from other victims, as expats few are likely to sit high in Gordon's priorities. Remember that he has a track record of making bad judgements - ripping off the pensions industry, selling the nation's gold at rock bottom prices (having first announced in advance that he would do so and so ensuring the price fell beforehand) and, not so well publicised, during the last stockmarket meltdown in 2002 forcing the insurance companies to change their investment practices making them sell stocks when they had already fallen almost 40% in price and buy more bonds instead when they were at an all time high (thereby ensuring that the with profits funds couldn't recoup their losses when the stockmarket moved back up again!) His latest grab of the KSFIOM's assets has created the specific problem we all have now, which brings me to the point I want to make. I feel that the liquidator/receiver is our best hope.

If there are any lawyers or accountants with experience of receivership reading this site, (or even better the receiver himself) can you give outline advice on the following?
1) If a liquidator is appointed, what is the likely timescale to recover assets - 1 year, 2, 5?
2) Is the Govt's grab of assets of one company (KSFIOM) legal when used to pay off the debts of another (KSFUK or Landsbank)? Could it be challenged in the European Court?
3) Are all depositors treated in the same way ie individuals, small business accounts, charities etc? Would all receive the same % in the pound calculated on total deposits vs total asset recovery?
4) Would the compensation schemes apply to net losses, ie the outstanding amounts after the recovery and distribution of assets?
5) How are long term loans made by KSF likely to be dealt with - drip feed the repayments back to depositors on an annual basis?

It would be helpful to have this sort of information, especially for those who have put the money aside for retirement in the future so that they can get an idea of how some form of return might be forthcoming. Unfortunately it won't do much for those who had just put cash into KSF as a holding place and need the money back in the near future! For ourselves, that retirement was supposed to be now but it looks like we'll have to hit the road again, hoping that jobs don't dry up totally over the next couple of years!!!!!


Overview of the Issues

  • 491
  • 11/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
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  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 10:31

Before I begin, can I suggest that we all leave our personal stories at the door – in general but especially in this thread. They are just not relevant to solving this problem and bog this forum down and distract us from focusing on the only things that will resolve the issue: proper negotiation of our collective interest. Soaring rhetoric, outrage, all the many personal family motivations while heart rending, are just a) not helpful, and b) not going to contribute one iota to the resolution of this matter. There is a thread called “Your Stories” for all that stuff. The only debate that belongs here are issues and facts that contribute to our understanding of the situation, and reasoned analysis as to the resolution of our collective self interest and specific actions that will advance those interests.

My Own Humble Opinion:

In my long experience in finance and investment management, circumstances like this are negotiated and resolved with reference only to bargaining power, legal rights and self-interest. People and governments don’t do favors. Spontaneous deposit guarantees won’t arise from a British (or Icelandic) sense of fair play.

Inciting a run on IOM banks is absurd and won’t help. What might motivate the IOM govt to act is fear of a run if IOM depositors are not fully paid back. But, I’m quite sure they are already aware of that and therefore there is no need to promote the idea.

Media communications might be helpful, but probably not if you really think about it. Because there is no broad constituency in the UK whose moral outrage would shift dynamics of this situation. There are few if any voters invested in IOM banks. So lets not imagine that good publicity on BB2 is going to change much.

Expat: You seem to be a savvy guy and I’m sure your efforts are well intentioned, but I’ve read your posts over the past few days, and for all the hope that they inspire, I don’t think it is helpful to come to a public forum and effectively say, “Sshh, I know something. It’s going on behind closed doors. Can’t tell you what it is for good reason. Wait til Tuesday.” Several reasons: a) We can all safely assume that there are a lot of high level negotiations going on anyway – it would be amazing if they were not; b) Your comments might be interpreted over optimistically thereby giving false hope; and c) It might discourage otherwise legitimate action and helpful parallel processes. If you can say something definitive, then I’d encourage you to say it – and I for one will be very grateful to you. If you really can’t “disclose”, then I think it would be best to do exactly that – and let us be pleasantly surprised.

There may well be potential deals in the pipeline – govt or corporate – to buy, merge, underwrite, save or refloat any or all of the Icelandic banks, but I don’t think any of us here is in a position to influence that process. If it happens it happens. I can think of good arguments for and against, it’s just not salient to the only thing we can influence: the fair representation of our collective interest.

Ignoring for a moment the matter of partial govt guarantees, my analysis is this:
1) There are two channels of potential reimbursement: bank and governmental. Ordinarily, even the govt channel would not apply except for the scale of the issue, Iceland’s potential bankruptcy, the UK government’s involvement in the default, UK government’s triggering actions, frozen IOM assets in the UK and the UK’s obligation to represent IOM interests in foreign affairs.
2) Within the bank and governmental channel, I’m sure we have rights that can be pressed. For example if Kaupthing hf is wound up, there is the matter of making sure we are fairly represented relative to other Kaupthing units. With respect to government negotiations there is the matter of ensuring that IOM depositors are not disadvantaged for the betterment of just Icelandic or UK depositors. Each of these issues is first a diplomatic matter – IOM ministers must take steps to demand it and we must ensure that is happening NOW. It is secondly a legal matter. I don’t know the answers on this, but I think it fair to assume that IOM depositors have a legal entitlement to a share of the spoils. In this regard, I imagine that our liquidator should advance this cause and report to us.
3) To the extent that the UK government has made this a collective bargain, it occurs to me that our bargaining strength may be aided if we were aligned with other Kaupthing units that are not currently at the table with the UK and Iceland. Here I’m thinking of the Luxembourg, Swiss, and Guernsey offices. Have there been any outreach to these offices or their depositors… it seems to me that we are in the same boat? And ultimately all Kaupthing unit depositors will have rights relative to the UK-Icelandic bargaining decisions.

There have been many posts since I started drafting this note, so apologies if it is repetitive. But my recommendations are that one person from this forum be appointed to do the following and report back here:

• Contact IOM government to get assurances that, not only have they made representations to the UK government requesting their assistance in this matter, BUT also that the UK government has provided the answer that IOMs interests are also being fairly voiced in the negotiations and will rank pari passu with those of the UK.
• Request that our representative at PWC seek assurances from Kaupthing parent that our IOM deposits will rank equally with those of all other Kaupthing units.
• Demand to IOM minister that government negotiations (UK-Iceland-IOM) address equally the issues of Kaupthing foreign deposits as much as those of Landsbanki or Icesave (I’ve found it very strange that government talks this far have centered only around Icesave assurances).
• Initiate a first contact with other “stray” Kaupthing sheep: Lux, Guernsey, Swiss offices whose governments have not already offered 100% guaranteed deposits or ringfenced their Kaupthing units.

There is then the matter of retaining counsel to advance our interests. That’s a class action lawsuit that may or may not be required, and my sense is that it doesn’t have to be launched at this early stage. If we are not given assurances that our interests are being fairly and equally represented in both government talks and at Kaupthing hf, then that is the time to explore class action. I could be wrong on this. I just think the first important steps are to get assurances that we are represented at the government and corporate tables and to initiate a liaison contact person.

Blair


Steve You seem to have the

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 09:53

Steve

You seem to have the best grasp on the situation

Please call me on 1-246 -2566817 ( cell) or 1-246-439596 (h)

I will call you back /give you my skype/email


I cannot ring out i have two

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 10:09

I cannot ring out i have two mobiles one for Russia and one f,,g virgin and I cannot ring out on either. please ring me on 07941 788059


Re -Lawyers to Iceland

  • sabi Star
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 09:42

The site won't take the whole of the address for the article.
Can find it on www.independent.co.uk under search - Iceland.
"At least 10 American & British pension fund & institutions....have hired London based commercial lawyers to try to reptrieve the debt etc..." - they are going to iceland next week.


we need to get together

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 09:40

We all need to contact each other for a plan of action.

This is my number 1-246-2566817 it is an overseas number.

Call and I will give you my skype name.


Correction

  • sabi Star
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 09:31

Lawyers go to Iceland

  • sabi Star
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 09:28

Hi, the letter that you

  • raha
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 09:23

Hi,
the letter that you received contains in my opinion a direct engagement from the Man Director of Singer Fried IOM to cover any deposit in the IOM with unlimited guarantee of Kaupting Iceland. If we are able to put together all our claims (at least we can start making a hard core and other will follow) giving mandate to a aggressive and internationally known lawyer in UK to prosecute at all level : Civil and criminal the management of Kaupting than we will obtain :
1) a stronger action and more attention from media
2) a larger claim will be a larger instrument of pressure, alone nobody will care of our singular problem ranging in 6 digit, let's make our claim big and strong.
3) we will raise the criminal side that has not raised til now : it is clear that Kaupting was largely unfunded with a ridicolous Tier/1 rapport between assets and exposure, than their managers may be charged for fraude for having (intentionally) taken out the savings trough acquisitions of foreign banks , in order to fund their excess in a criminal design.(this at least is what I will hammer if our future lawyer will support it)
TO BE CONCRETE I SUGGEST TO NOMINATE A LAYER IN LONDON AND TO MEET ALL OF US WHO HAVE LOST A LOT AND HAVE INTENTION TO MAKE THE HARD CORE OF THIS GROUP, FROM THIS MEETING A COMMON POLICY WILL EMERGE AND WE WILL SAVE ON LEGAL FEES AND BE STRONGER.
PLEASE COME BACK WITH YOUR COMMENT AND LET'S START MOVING TO THEIR TROATH


Appointing a lawyer

  • Last Bel
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 09:54

Very much agree.

I have a very good contact in a bank in London. He can suggest put forward a suitable lawyer who can flight our case effectively.
I should speak to him later today or tomorrow and ask him to forward his credentials. We need to start make a central fund and start fire some letters off, the earlier the better. We need to present him with clear facts the copies of our contracts of the various agreements, under which country and law ect ect. Ask him to give advise first of all if we have a good case and take it from there.

May I suggest we need to appoint a central contact and spoke person. How far are we with collating email addresses for block mails ect. With how many are we now and how many are still out there who could and must join our common coal to get and retrieve 100% of our money asap. Look for and spread our word on similar site like this to find get the attention of others with similar interest to join up. Lots of work need and can be be done right now.

See also my next message


need info small print for depositors

  • Last Bel
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 10:04

I need the 'small print' of the contracts for depositors. Has any of you chaps this in electronic print and willing to mail them to me please. I will send the appropriate section to my friends lawyer in London who can then give initial advise on how I/we are standing in a change of successful fighting our case.

The one I need are the following; -

money market currency account
90 - day platinum offshore
call deposit account

                                                 contact:  cj2driver at hotmail.com

many many thanks


appointing a lawyer

  • bellyup
  • 10/10/08 09/01/10
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 10:02

I believe we must do this I have given out my contact details on this site .

(I am not a lawyer) - Just someone who has lost their life savings

Its all too big for us alone.


Appointing a Lawyer

  • DXB
  • 12/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 10:01

The reality is you won't get a preferential claim over the proceeds of the liquidation by engaging a lawyer, and any claim under the parent company guarantee is worthless if the parent is insolvent.


Lawyer

  • tubefly
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 10:16

Yes - but a Lawyer could provide a list of what positions of strength we have - not least where we stand with the UK freezing assets and wether there is any mileage in this.


Call for Action - public and individiual statements, emails e

  • guttered
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 07:52

Like all of you i've spent the past few days glued to this site, its my life line at the moment. I get " wierdly excited" every time there is a new posting in the hope that every new posting brings hope or some new news. however, I'm now getting very concerned and desperate that we are caught in a "black hole", given the lack of media attention etc about our plight...I'm slowly beginning to loose hope. The days leading up the court decision on 24 October are crucial and we need to action!!!

Why is there absolutely no more news from the IOM this weekend??? we can see that the the uk government is working where is the IOM government - asleep in their beds? if the IOM govt has not been a sleep they need to tell us!!

I agree with others, I dont believe that the UK government will help us....they have never been a fan of off shore accounts...however, they are very happy to take the withholding interest of 25% immediately from offshore accounts!

I am absolutely support of EXPAT's call for public action / statement , but strongly believe that we need to go even further.

WE NEED TO GET THE CALL FOR PUBLIC STATEMENT OUT TODAY, SO THEY HAVE IT FIRST THING ON MONDAY MORNING!

So, this is my individual plan today -- instead of spending another day glued to new postings, I'm going to drafting letters, emails in the first instance to all the key officials, the liquiditor, the key minister -- you name it - every email addresss i can find - on the IOM SITES, bringing their immediate attention to this site and in particular to the "your stories" section in the hope that it pullls on their heart strings and immediate call for action. They will receive all emails first thing on monday morning after their relaxing weekend!

I agree the LAST thing that we need is a run on the bank on the IOM cos that would kill our chances even further forever.
however, I can only see upside to bringing to all the IOM official's that this is a real concern. the folks that i plan to send my letters / emails too are not the ones that will cause the a run on the IOM, but are the ones that have most to loose - their jobs, quality of life and gold plated pensions.

just between you and me - i'm already pulling my family savings from the IOM. I'm not taking any comfort in the way that they are handling this crsis - yes, even though that they did not cause this! the IOM govt needs to do something!!!!!!

privately i am concerned that the IMO could follow Iceland if a run were to happen.

sorry about my pigeon typing - i'm exhausted but i need to do something for the sake of my family and not feel like a lamb been led to the slaughter!!!!


Call for Action/Action to be taken

  • saoversoix
  • 10/10/08 02/07/13
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 09:11

Please could you post the email contact addresses of the relevant IOM officials and I will also send them my story.


You do all you can I will

  • expat
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 08:16

You do all you can I will take all the help I can get now. There will be a bank run I'm sure so beware. If you want you can tell targets you have I am at the Sefton Hotel IoM and I m prepared to go to war fr our families.
I am awaitng some calls and I do have hope, I do not look for balme Yet, I want our money.
This is hurtning my family very badly and I will not stop until have a victory. you might as well all know that.
Please help any way you can now but please please be cool calm and collected.

Dave for f..ks sake ring me pal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


there seems to be lots of

  • agaryh
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 09:09

there seems to be lots of talk going on - but what actions ?
we all need to know what the iom govt is doing , nothing in the press in the uk mentions the iom much .!!
none of us want to jeopardise the situation however at the moment the only thing we have been told is that the new £50k fsc scheme will cover us !
this is great but for alot of us this no where near covers our deposits .

i believe this situation is very political now - if the iom govt dont act positively and openly people will lose confidence in the iom system and it will fail ?
we need to know the iom govt are talking to the uk govt , but most importantly are being taken seriosly!!!

can you call me on 07624251111


Calm and determination

  • Iwantmymoneyback
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 12/10/2008 - 08:44

Expat,

As per your earlier messages, this is what is most likely to lead to the best outcome. It is not in our interest to add to the panick by drawing even more attention to the weaknesses of IOM as an financial centre.

What I want is a public statement from the IOM authorities demonstrating that our interests are fought for at the political level, as well as regular updates by the IOM's PM. The IOM authorities must understand that they are in the same boat as us and that the world is watching how they handle this crisis. If they fail to win the case, ie return 100% of our savings, their savings industry is finished. Depositors did not mean to take bets on horses but just keep their cash safe in a bank.