100% before Christmas !!

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
Posted: Wed, 15/10/2014 - 16:31

Our liquidators have today announced that our claim in the administration of KSFUK has been sold to a third party, realising cash proceeds of £18.4m.

As a result, a dividend of 2p in the £ is to be declared and paid on 28 November 2014. This will bring cumulative dividends to 100p in the £.

http://www.kaupthingsingers.co.im/2014/october/15october2014/

The £18.4m received represents 7.5% of our KSFUK claim (£246m) which, added to the 81.5% already received, means we have settled for 89% (compared with E&Y's current upper estimated outcome of 86.5%) - and we have it right NOW, not in some distant future! This seems to me to be an excellent outcome and moves us clearly into the end game. The next objective surely has to be a resolution of the outstanding KSFIOM loan book, leaving just the claim under the parental guarantee, which should then be able to be properly quantified and agreed (and probably sold also). Hopefully, the end is now in sight?

Clearly, reaching 100%, with at least a little more still to come from the loan book and the PG, raises the issue of how the excess will be distributed. I note that the JLs have added that "Calculation of interest payments to creditors will be dealt with in a future website update".

Happy Christmas all!

Anrigaut

5
Your rating: None Average: 5 (14 votes)

Comment viewing options
Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Excellent news!

  • Paul83
  • 10/11/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Wed, 05/11/2014 - 13:21

Yes, that is excellent news and thanks are due to everyone who has helped to achieve this outcome, as well as the many encouragers along the way!

Phew!


100%

  • cottesmore
  • 21/10/08 16/07/12
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Fri, 31/10/2014 - 13:52

Yes,this is the most brilliant news we all could have wished for.How many of us would have, "sold," our interest, for a lot less? I still believe this was a massive going concern and should have been sold as one six years ago.I said it then and repeat myself now.We must continue our aims for interest on our monies.We are the innocent people in all this.Many people have made huge profits on the back of our misery.Lets not forget those that never made it to this point.
Sorry if i sound a bit down beat,but i will never forget what personal misery and anxiety this has had on me.I still take medication because of all this! I cope the best way i can and know you guys do too.I will miss you all when this is over.Until then,it aint over.
Mark.


John Aspden

  • bobbymann
  • 01/10/14 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Mon, 20/10/2014 - 10:09

Saw the above at the airport the other night (Manx financial regulator at the time in 2008). Laughed how back then (when I saw him in town) I told my daughter that we owed him a big wedgie. Was going to tell him we would let him off the wedgie now - given the 100%.


Wonderful News

  • Stunned Mullet
  • 17/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 19/10/2014 - 04:15

I am taken by complete surprise and totally elated at the news. More than 6-years ago we were all faced with the prospect of having lost a shed load of money. For some, it represented their entire life savings, irrespective of the amount; for all the impact was nothing less than devastating. Not everyone who was impacted by the events of 2008 is with us today and we should not forget them, nor the human damage this whole sorry business has caused.

I would also like to take this opportunity to personally recognise the selfless, tireless efforts of people such as Angrigaut, Gordon, our representatives on the COI and the many others I have not named who have worked on our behalf and kept our hopes alive for so long. Whatever I may write here cannot properly express my gratitude! Thank you all.


Well thats a big surprise

  • expatvictim
  • 10/10/08 01/11/10
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Fri, 17/10/2014 - 02:04

Wow - don't think anybody was expecting that except perhaps those on the COI who, as Anrigaut mentioned have likely done more in the background than we probably realize. I'm afraid your predictions are now a little out Gordon - but for good reasons and I'm sure you will not be disappointed; thank you for too for the contributions you have made over the last long six years. IMO the JLs have earned their fees - although the journey is still not over, the worst of it is behind us and anything else is (IMO) a bonus.

This latest news also seems to re-affirm that the IOM branch was essentially solvent at the time of the 'crisis' and the rushed efforts of the IOM government to cover their own backsides with the SOA were right to be rejected. Anrigaut, thank you as ever. I haven't looked at the Manx media for a few years but I wouldn't be surprised if whoever took over from that buffoon Tony Brown and the despicable Ms Craine will lay claim to their being responsible for our100% return.


Wow!

  • sunny1
  • 16/10/08 30/05/14
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 16/10/2014 - 14:09

Thank you Anrigaut.

We reached 100%! A totally unexpected message, desultorily checking the computer as the working day closes here in Ankara. It is, as you say, difficult to believe, when we were settling in for another long wait until the next payout.

Bravo and extremely well done to all.

And, of course, even more thanks are owed to those who have kept us going over the years.
God bless us, everyone.

Sunny 1


100%

  • bobbymann
  • 01/10/14 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 16/10/2014 - 09:35

Thanks so much to all who have kept our spirits up: Anrigaut, Gordon and that chap with all the jokes! Anyway, I hope you are all well and this miserable experience hasnt put too many years on you and lines on faces! I shall now take the balance from KSFIOM and invest it somewhere else where it will no doubt rapidly go up in smoke!


Amazing news

  • bahamas
  • 17/11/08 31/05/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Wed, 15/10/2014 - 21:33

A great headline to see unexpectedly......100% before Christmas.
I cannot thank Anrigaut, and everyone else that has worked hard for all of us for so long, enough for all their time and effort spent on getting us to 100%. I wish I could have been in a position to be of some kind of help, sadly I have not been able, but just being able to keep up to date with any news, however small, has kept me positive about the future. Thankyou again to you all, I think we will all be smiling a little more this Christmas.


100% before Xmas

  • Gordon 45
  • 22/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Wed, 15/10/2014 - 20:09

Anrigaut,

What terrific news you have just posted, really cannot believe it. I really thought we would have to wait until around Dec 2015 for another dividend - if we managed o get one then. The JLs have pulled off a coup - we have finally managed to get 100% back, it seemed such an impossibility a few years back.

Our JLs now, as you say, have to deal with the balance of our own KSFIOM loan book as quickly as possible then finalise our PG claim and try and get a resolution to it somehow.

I am so pleased that you are the person who has been able to post this excellent news to us all. You have been terrific over the past few years and done a fantastic job on behalf of yourself and your colleagues in the DAG Team. With your constant very important updates and news, all done with a professional courtesy to all.

I am personally so grateful to you and the information you have provided to us all has been so helpful to me in what I have tried to do.

Thank you so much,

Gordon 45


Great news but moving on

  • D RAM
  • 13/10/08 01/08/14
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Thu, 16/10/2014 - 05:17

I fully endorse the thanks to Anrigaut but let's not forget our representatives on the Creditor's Committee, Ng for the website and of course Gordon for his splendid monthly updates/predictions and all others who've helped to give us hope and lift our spirits in the darkest days. Even,( dare i say it ?) thanks to the JLs.

However, back to earth, the 100% is of our "admitted claim" and does not include the :

(a) "deferred interest" on our submitted claims ie uncapitalised interest in excess of 5% (in my case the interest rate on my savings with KSFIOM was 6%)

(b) interest on our savings from 8 October 2008 until repayments were made

I presume we are entitled to such interest under (a) and (b) and, if so, would be interested to know if the JLs now intend to prepare individual statements setting out how much is due to each of us accordingly. I realise any such repayment may be long in the coming but there must be scope for some further recoveries under the Loan Book and possibly the PG.

D RAM

PS: any chance of the Loan Book being sold off ?


Re moving on

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 16/10/2014 - 07:45

Thanks for the thanks! I would like to endorse your comments in particular re our COI reps who have stuck to their task with determination out of the limelight and, I'm quite sure, helped to keep the JLs on their toes, yet have oft been maligned on this site - unjustly in my opinion. And of course Gordon, ng, my DAG colleagues behind the scenes, and everyone else who has played a part in getting us to this point.

Re your queries:

Yes, we are entitled to interest under Manx insolvency law and it has already been established (in the preliminary note by the JLs some while back) that the deferred interest (a) will take priority over lost interest post 2008 (b). But the legal technicalities of exactly how (b) will be calculated and applied are tricky and will probably require involvement of the Court. Also finalising the quantum of the PG claim - which will now be entirely for interest - is further complicated by the involvement of Icelandic law ... Understandably, the JLs and the COI were unwilling to invest any more time (and our money!) in sorting this out until we were sure it was a real issue. But they will now have to get seriously to work. The one liner at the end of their announcement indicates that this is aready in hand.

As for the loan book, I'm sure the possibility of selling it off at some point will be among the options considered - but only if and when the price is right. The focus has to remain to act in the best interests of all creditors. The PG also could be sold, but presumably only after it has been finally agreed (which requires first that the loan book is resolved, one way or another).

So not quite there yet, but definitely a big step forward.


Moving On +

  • D RAM
  • 13/10/08 01/08/14
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Thu, 16/10/2014 - 23:50

Anrigaut:

Thanks so much for your speedy and clear response.

Sorry to bother you yet further but can you clarify if the JLs have ever advised us of the total amount of the deferred interest (a) ? If not possibly they could be asked for the figure as It would be interesting to know how it compares with the 26.4 million still outstanding in the Loan Book. Given that further recoveries from the Loan Book will probably be low I suspect that even if the deferred interest (a) can be repaid there will be little, if anything, to repay the other interest (b) and hence for that we'll have to rely on the PG.


Re Moving On +

  • anrigaut
  • 19/10/08 30/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Fri, 17/10/2014 - 07:53

D RAM:

Yes, a figure was given in the JLs' notes on the calculation of interest produced at the start of last year, which I have now re-read to be sure I get the facts right (will add further comment re the DCS elsewhere). The notes are here: http://www.kaupthingsingers.co.im/2013/january/18january2013/

In answer to your question, the amount of deferred interest (step 1 in the JLs' notes) is about £3.5m, which they correctly point out could be fully paid out (along with a small amount due to a few trades people etc who were owed money by the bank at the time of the collapse) if we reach 100.4% - a scenario which now looks entirely plausible.

Figures for (b) - their step 3 - are less certain as they will depend on the resolution of a number of outstanding issues, notably whether interest post October 2008 will be calculated on the full agreed claim or on the claim adjusted for the timing of payment of distributions to individual creditors. But the amounts involved are of course much greater than for (a). Depending on the final decision, paying interest at 4% pa (the statutory rate under IOM insolvency law) could amount to up to £36.2m per annum.

It seems to me that, whatever the decision, the amount needed for the first year would be not much less than that as - apart from the relatively small EPS payments - no distributions were made by either the liquidators or the DCS until almost the end of that year. So to be able to pay interest for the whole of the first year alone would, as I understand it, require us to reach around 104% - which seems improbable to me.

So yes, there will still be a role for the PG. Because of likely conflicts between Manx law and Icelandic law in the matter, it remains unclear what rate- and over what period - would be accepted as the basis for our claim. But in any case, since it has been accepted that the PG counts as an unsecured claim and not a priority claim in the Khf winding up, we will never get anywhere near the whole amount of whatever claim is finally agreed.

All these issues are now going to need to be addressed fully, starting with the more straightforward Manx issues and I look forward to further news from the JLs. Meanwhile, we can savour this '100%' moment in the firm expectation that at least some of the lost interest will also be recovered in due course. As others have said, given where we started all will be bonus from now on.


Moving On ++

  • D RAM
  • 13/10/08 01/08/14
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sat, 18/10/2014 - 01:29

Anrigaut,

Thanks again for your very speedy and clear response.

Just for interest (no pun intended) I've done a "back of a fag packet" calculation of interest under (b) using simple interest taking the 4% pa statutory rate and the sinking level of the outstanding balances due to us as repayments were made. It comes to about 80 million. Obviously this is far in excess of the value of the outstanding Loan Book and even then Gordon's latest estimate is only 34% recovery. Thus the lion's share of the 80 million would have to come from the PG (inconceivable).

D RAM

PS: Maybe to maximise our return from the Loan book, consideration should be given to its sale to the Mafia or Triads as they are probably best placed to get repayment from the defaulters and hence offer the best price to the JLs for the Loan Book ? (only kidding)


Sale of remainder of Loan Book

  • Brabander
  • 15/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Mon, 20/10/2014 - 18:15

Selling this off to one of the Hedge (Vulture) Funds would not be that much different from your proposal.
Not kidding!


crying with joy

  • sambururob
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Thu, 16/10/2014 - 10:31

I am crying with joy as I text Wendy and tell her that our JL's have pulled off a coup re KSFUK.
Thank you to Anrigaut and Gordon and the guy that operates the web site. Communication has been the key to success.
From now on it is all bonus.
Don't worry about Christmas - have a good life !!
Rob


Wonderful News

  • Blades
  • 19/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Fri, 17/10/2014 - 05:18

Heartfelt thanks to everyone who has been keeping the majority of us informed about what has happening to our money over thes past years. Wonderful news. Thank you.


HEAR HEAR

  • mikepapa
  • 10/10/08 n/a (free)
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 26/10/2014 - 13:23

Hear Hear……… thanks to all that have kept us informed over the years - and despite earlier criticisms, a a big well done to our Liquidator and committee for the KSFUK move!!

Kind regards,

Mike


Brilliant news

  • jmf
  • 16/10/08 31/10/09
  • a depositor
  • Offline
  • Sun, 26/10/2014 - 14:25

Thank you Anrigaut, Gordon 45 and everyone involved with this site. It is hard to believe that 100% has been reached when you consider the overwhelming obstacles put in our way at the outset. What a superb team.


The last mile?

  • VikingRaider
  • 10/10/08 31/05/09
  • unspecified
  • Offline
  • Sun, 02/11/2014 - 08:48

My father (now 92) is looking foward to receiving the few hundred pounds outstanding in interest if only to maintain his proud (if dubious) boast of 'never having been ripped off by a bank'. Fish and chips and few pints all round if the money ever turns up!